RR: sometimes, all you need is a dirt road

Monique Y. Mudama said:

All I need, anyway.

I'll put my questions first:

1. Okay, I know that shifting the front ring while on a hill can lead
to nasty chain suck issues. Blech. But shifting early seems to put
me in a position where I can't/don't spin fast enough to match my
speed coming up to the hill, so I lose all my momentum right at the
bottom as my wheel slows down to match my feet. That sucks. Any
suggestions? (I'm guessing the answer is "pedal faster!", but I'm
hoping for something more detailed, like, "Pedal faster, doofus!"😉

Try shifting to a harder gear in the rear just before dropping down to
granny in front. That way your cadence will stay about the same until the
climbing starts, and then you can shift up in the back as the grade
requires.

Quoted message said:

2. Clipless cleat positioning. The inside of my left knee hurt a bit
on the really long, gradual climb -- every time. The knees didn't
hurt for the rest of the loop, though. Now, this could be arthritis
(yes, I have arthritis at 26 -- doctor-confirmed and everything); my
knees hurt when I woke up this morning. But if it were a cleat
problem, how should I change my foot position to get rid of pain to
the inner knee?

My guess (and that's what it is): try moving the cleat(s) DOWN a tad,
toward the heel. Seems to take a little stress off the knees for me.

Also, even though it's a pain in the ass, ICE it/them! Really does help.

Finally, look up some knee exercises on the web or from a PT. Gotta
strengthen those tendons around the patella.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, on to the RR:

{very nice rr snipped}

Quoted message said:

Mini ER #2: shimano multi-release cleats. Still haven't decided if
they actually make it easier or not. It's certainly not a night and
day difference. I had my right foot pull out a couple of times
practicing bunny hops last Saturday, but I think that's because I had
way too much mud packed in under the cleat, thanks to a really
impressive slow-motion endo.

I use Eggbeaters nowadays, but way back when I tried the multi-release
cleats and didn't like 'em. They felt too "mushy" to me, and didn't give me
that positive CLICK that the single release ones did. YMMV, of course (not
to mention they may well have changed by now). And yes, mud is especially
troublesome with some SPD pedals.

Bill "up too late to address rest" S.

(Hope hubby is better soon, btw!)

Monique Y. Mudama said:

All I need, anyway.

I'll put my questions first:

1. Okay, I know that shifting the front ring while on a hill can lead
to nasty chain suck issues. Blech. But shifting early seems to put
me in a position where I can't/don't spin fast enough to match my
speed coming up to the hill, so I lose all my momentum right at the
bottom as my wheel slows down to match my feet. That sucks. Any
suggestions? (I'm guessing the answer is "pedal faster!", but I'm
hoping for something more detailed, like, "Pedal faster, doofus!"😉

As long as you don't switch three or more gears at once you should not get
chain suck. Although, I find that my XT rear derailleur is a much harder
gear change on the uphill than my XTR.

Quoted message said:

2. Clipless cleat positioning. The inside of my left knee hurt a bit
on the really long, gradual climb -- every time. The knees didn't
hurt for the rest of the loop, though. Now, this could be arthritis
(yes, I have arthritis at 26 -- doctor-confirmed and everything); my
knees hurt when I woke up this morning. But if it were a cleat
problem, how should I change my foot position to get rid of pain to
the inner knee?

Sounds like the front of the cleet may be angled to far to the left. Check
where your toes are pointing when clipped. If they are point way out to the
left it would put pressure on the inside of your knee.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, on to the RR:

<SNIP>

It is nice to ride alone sometimes. You get to enjoy the scenery a bit
more. I find that when people get into a group, it always becomes
competitive regardless of the "no one gets dropped" line.

Quoted message said:

Here's why, sometimes, a dirt road and some solitude is all you need:

- Getting used to clipless at my own pace (I'm trying the multirelease
cleats now, but the idea of stopping, then toppling still scares the
bejeesus out of me). I can slow down to almost a halt and practice
clipping in and out without wasting anyone's time.

Falling is part of the learning process. It's finding a soft place to land
thats the tricky part.

<SNIP>

Quoted message said:

Mini ER #1: Rudy Project Kerosene. First of all, I'd like to
recommend Tom's Sportique Eyewear in Boulder to anyone shopping for
performance eye stuff. I've spent several hours of Tom, the owner's,
time over the last months hemming and hawing over his selection. I
finally decided on these. I really like them. They're small enough
that my small face doesn't look bug-eyed, but big enough to cover my
whole eye area. They vent well. The two lenses I chose, racing red
and action brown, are great for variable light conditions and bright
sun, respectively. My lenses don't get all fogged up when I ride
anymore! I really like these things. And did I mention to check out
Tom's? He spent a ton of time with me, adjusted my regular glasses
frames twice, gave me honest feedback, undercharged me for the extra
set of lenses, and threw in a free (nice!) case for my regular
glasses when I asked to buy one. And we had a great time talking
bike stuff while he was doing all that. I overheard a conversation
between another salesperson there and a customer, and she also ended
up charging the customer less than she'd originally estimated. How
often do you see that?

I'd have to say that my Rudy's are my favorite glasses and I've tried many
different brands from $20 - $250. Get yourself a set of clear lenses too.
They'll be good for those overcast days in heavy tree cover or night riding.

Quoted message said:

Mini ER #2: shimano multi-release cleats. Still haven't decided if
they actually make it easier or not. It's certainly not a night and
day difference. I had my right foot pull out a couple of times
practicing bunny hops last Saturday, but I think that's because I had
way too much mud packed in under the cleat, thanks to a really
impressive slow-motion endo.

You clips might be too loose if you are pulling out on a bunnyhop. Try
turning the adjustment two notches. Multirelease should be a big difference
from the single release. You do not need to lift your heel to get out, just
twist.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Monique Y. Mudama said:

All I need, anyway.

I'll put my questions first:

1. Okay, I know that shifting the front ring while on a hill can lead
to nasty chain suck issues. Blech. But shifting early seems to put
me in a position where I can't/don't spin fast enough to match my
speed coming up to the hill, so I lose all my momentum right at the
bottom as my wheel slows down to match my feet. That sucks. Any
suggestions? (I'm guessing the answer is "pedal faster!", but I'm
hoping for something more detailed, like, "Pedal faster, doofus!"😉

2. Clipless cleat positioning. The inside of my left knee hurt a bit
on the really long, gradual climb -- every time. The knees didn't
hurt for the rest of the loop, though. Now, this could be arthritis
(yes, I have arthritis at 26 -- doctor-confirmed and everything); my
knees hurt when I woke up this morning. But if it were a cleat
problem, how should I change my foot position to get rid of pain to
the inner knee?

Are your feet in their "natural" position when clipped? If not adjust
your cleats to position your feet more naturally.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mini ER #2: shimano multi-release cleats. Still haven't decided if
they actually make it easier or not. It's certainly not a night and
day difference. I had my right foot pull out a couple of times
practicing bunny hops last Saturday, but I think that's because I had
way too much mud packed in under the cleat, thanks to a really
impressive slow-motion endo.

--
monique

What pedals do you have? If M515s, consider the M520s for better mud
shedding properties.

--
- Zilla
Cary, NC
(Remove XSPAM)

On Thu, 20 May 2004 00:38:53 -0600, Monique Y. Mudama wrote:

Can't help you with the questions, I have many problems timing my shifting
as well.

Quoted message said:

Well, Eric's been in the hospital since Saturday night,

Erm, hope he's ok?

Quoted message said:

Mini ER #1: Rudy Project Kerosene. First of all, I'd like to recommend
Tom's Sportique Eyewear in Boulder to anyone shopping for performance
eye stuff. I've spent several hours of Tom, the owner's, time over the
last months hemming and hawing over his selection. I finally decided on
these. I really like them. They're small enough that my small face
doesn't look bug-eyed, but big enough to cover my whole eye area. They
vent well. The two lenses I chose, racing red and action brown, are
great for variable light conditions and bright sun, respectively. My
lenses don't get all fogged up when I ride anymore!

Did you get prescription lenses for these? I would really like to have a
pair of glasses that covers more of my (also small) face. (I wear kid's
glasses, if that gives you a clue.) I need Rx lenses though, and haven't
been too thrilled with the options I've seen in sports glasses.

gabrielle

On 2004-05-20, gabrielle penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

Well, Eric's been in the hospital since Saturday night,

Erm, hope he's ok?

Yes, thank you. He's coming home today, although of course he'll be
recovering at home for a while, too. He'll be fine in a couple of
weeks.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mini ER #1: Rudy Project Kerosene. First of all, I'd like to
recommend Tom's Sportique Eyewear in Boulder to anyone shopping for
performance eye stuff. I've spent several hours of Tom, the owner's,
time over the last months hemming and hawing over his selection. I
finally decided on these. I really like them. They're small enough
that my small face doesn't look bug-eyed, but big enough to cover my
whole eye area. They vent well. The two lenses I chose, racing red
and action brown, are great for variable light conditions and bright
sun, respectively. My lenses don't get all fogged up when I ride
anymore!

Did you get prescription lenses for these? I would really like to
have a pair of glasses that covers more of my (also small) face. (I
wear kid's glasses, if that gives you a clue.) I need Rx lenses
though, and haven't been too thrilled with the options I've seen in
sports glasses.

I had Lasik several years ago, and now, my vision is fine in bright
light -- when it gets dark I need my glasses, though, because my pupils
get bigger than the incision.

I did ask about prescriptions, though. Tom actually makes prescription
lenses for the graal sx, which is a smaller than the kerosene. For the
kerosene, there's a clip-in that actually clips to the inside. There's
a pic toward the bottom of this page:

http://www.rudyprojectusa.com/products/sunglasses/styles/kerosene.htm

I haven't decided if I want to get those yet; they reduce the space
enough that my eyelashes hit the insert unless I pull the frames further
down my nose, which is a bit annoying. Then again, I was trying the
clipin for another model, so it might not be a problem with the real
deal. I guess one nice thing about clip-ins instead of full lenses is
that you don't have to pay for prescription lenses in every color you
want. Unfortunately, depending on your vision, the -4 diopters they
allow may not be enough. It wouldn't have been for me, pre-surgery.

--
monique

On 2004-05-20, S o r n i penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama wrote:

Try shifting to a harder gear in the rear just before dropping down to
granny in front. That way your cadence will stay about the same until
the climbing starts, and then you can shift up in the back as the
grade requires.

I've been playing with that ... guess I just need to play more. Good to
hear that I was moving in the right direction.

Quoted message said:

My guess (and that's what it is): try moving the cleat(s) DOWN a tad,
toward the heel. Seems to take a little stress off the knees for me.

I'll take a look at that, if the pain continues.

Quoted message said:

Also, even though it's a pain in the ass, ICE it/them! Really does
help.

Yeah. That's a good point. I tend to neglect ice.

Last night, it wasn't an option; at least, not in a useful timeframe. I
got back to the trailhead and checked messages; Eric's mom was stranded
at the hospital because she broke the key in the car door and Eric's dad
couldn't be contacted. (Now both original keys to that car have been
snapped. Ah well; they lasted 11 years.) So I had to hightail it to
the hospital and rescue her. (She has serious back problems, so I'm
pretty sensitive to her need to get home and get some rest.)

Quoted message said:

Finally, look up some knee exercises on the web or from a PT. Gotta
strengthen those tendons around the patella.

*nodnod* ... in fact, I do two stretches and several exercises a day.
Started a few weeks ago. My kneecap apparently has been tracking
sideways for the last who knows how many years, causing the cartilage
damage which is my arthritis. I finally saw a doctor about it this
spring. It had gotten to the point where driving for an hour caused
extreme pain in my knees, and I would have to stop and limp. I couldn't
even drive to Denver without pain, ferchrissakes!

The annoying part is, if I had gotten this diagnosed while I was still
in college, when I already had knee trouble but assumed it was related
to an injury, I would have been young enough to regrow the cartilage.
Sigh.

Quoted message said:

I use Eggbeaters nowadays, but way back when I tried the multi-release
cleats and didn't like 'em. They felt too "mushy" to me, and didn't
give me that positive CLICK that the single release ones did. YMMV,
of course (not to mention they may well have changed by now). And
yes, mud is especially troublesome with some SPD pedals.

They don't feel mushy, but the lack of click is definitely weird. There
are times when they seem easier to get in and out of; other times,
harder.

The fundamental problem is that I still have to think about clipping
out. What I need is a some kind of mechanism that senses when I'm about
to fall or stop and lets go autonomously =P

Actually, I just had the thought that a magnet could have interesting
uses here. I think you could make it strong enough to help with the
upstroke, but not so strong that you couldn't pull your foot off at
will.

Quoted message said:

(Hope hubby is better soon, btw!)

He will be! Coming home today, in fact.

--
monique

On 2004-05-20, Ride-A-Lot penned:

Quoted message said:

As long as you don't switch three or more gears at once you should not
get chain suck. Although, I find that my XT rear derailleur is a much
harder gear change on the uphill than my XTR.

I've gotten the chain caught between the rings and the frame (I think
that's it -- definitely wedged on the frame) a couple of times, all
while shifting uphill. Just to be sure, that's the definition of chain
suck, right? To be honest, though, I don't recall what shifting
technique I was using. Probably "blind panic and brute force."

Hrmm ... wait, I think I can reread your last sentence as "Monique, you
must get an XTR rear derailleur." I like the sound of that =)

If the specs from this year match last years, and I think they do, I
have a "Shimano Deore XT." Is that the same as plain-old XT, or a step
down?

Quoted message said:

Sounds like the front of the cleet may be angled to far to the left.
Check where your toes are pointing when clipped. If they are point
way out to the left it would put pressure on the inside of your knee.

I did notice that my heel was close enough to the frame (or is that bb?
whatever that thingie running from one ring to the other is) to
occasionally make light contact. So this sounds plausible.

Quoted message said:

It is nice to ride alone sometimes. You get to enjoy the scenery a
bit more. I find that when people get into a group, it always becomes
competitive regardless of the "no one gets dropped" line.

Yeah, that may be true. I mean, no one in my group is going to take
pride in beating me -- I'm always way behind -- but it seems that I push
myself a lot harder in a group. That can be good, but it can also be
nice to take it easy.

Quoted message said:

Falling is part of the learning process. It's finding a soft place to
land thats the tricky part.

Indeed. And it's easy to clip out when you're planning for it -- but
when I decide I *need* to clip out, there are often sharp pointy things
all about.

Quoted message said:

I'd have to say that my Rudy's are my favorite glasses and I've tried
many different brands from $20 - $250. Get yourself a set of clear
lenses too. They'll be good for those overcast days in heavy tree
cover or night riding.

Yeah. Tom discouraged me from getting clear lenses because I don't
really ride at night, and the racing reds are pretty tolerant of low
light conditions. But I've been planning to go back and ask for them.
I just need to scrape up some cash.

Quoted message said:

You clips might be too loose if you are pulling out on a bunnyhop.
Try turning the adjustment two notches. Multirelease should be a big
difference from the single release. You do not need to lift your heel
to get out, just twist.

I really do think this is a mud issue. If it happens again in non-muddy
circumstances, I'll consider tightening them.

--
monique

Monique Y. Mudama said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Finally, look up some knee exercises on the web or from a PT. Gotta

strengthen those tendons around the patella.

*nodnod* ... in fact, I do two stretches and several exercises a day.
Started a few weeks ago. My kneecap apparently has been tracking
sideways for the last who knows how many years, causing the cartilage
damage which is my arthritis. I finally saw a doctor about it this
spring. It had gotten to the point where driving for an hour caused
extreme pain in my knees, and I would have to stop and limp. I
couldn't even drive to Denver without pain, ferchrissakes!

be sure you have the right diagnosis. I was mis diagnosed (by various docs
etc) as a mal-tracking patella (patella femoral syndrome, chrondomalacia)
for years, and tried all that stuff - ice, exercises for the vastus
medialis, taping the kneecap into place... I finally went to see a sports
podiatrist who specializes gait issues. He rediagnosed me with overtight IT
( ilio-tibial) band and gave me a set of prescription stretched to follow.

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2000/02_00/fredericson.htm

This article is the exact prescription that he gave me. I followed it
exactly for several months, and voila, knee pain is gone after 7 years. Any
time it hints of coming back I get out my stretchy band and start up again.

Penny

On 2004-05-20, Zilla penned:

Quoted message said:

Are your feet in their "natural" position when clipped? If not adjust
your cleats to position your feet more naturally.

I would have to think about that one.

Quoted message said:

What pedals do you have? If M515s, consider the M520s for better mud
shedding properties.

I'm not sure. I'll look into it; thanks for the pointer.

(I almost never see mud, though. Saturday was the first time I ever had
any, and it was just a puddle or two on the whole trail. I should have
walked it, but for some reason I thought that I could keep pedaling
through it. No such luck. It grabbed my front wheel like a vise and
flipped me over. On the plus side, my riding companion tells me it was
about the funniest thing she's ever seen on a bike.)

--
monique

Penny S said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

Quoted message said:

>Finally, look up some knee exercises on the web or from a PT. Gotta

strengthen those tendons around the patella.

*nodnod* ... in fact, I do two stretches and several exercises a day.
Started a few weeks ago. My kneecap apparently has been tracking
sideways for the last who knows how many years, causing the cartilage
damage which is my arthritis. I finally saw a doctor about it this
spring. It had gotten to the point where driving for an hour caused
extreme pain in my knees, and I would have to stop and limp. I
couldn't even drive to Denver without pain, ferchrissakes!

be sure you have the right diagnosis. I was mis diagnosed (by various docs
etc) as a mal-tracking patella (patella femoral syndrome, chrondomalacia)
for years, and tried all that stuff - ice, exercises for the vastus
medialis, taping the kneecap into place... I finally went to see a sports
podiatrist who specializes gait issues. He rediagnosed me with overtight IT
( ilio-tibial) band and gave me a set of prescription stretched to follow.

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2000/02_00/fredericson.htm

This article is the exact prescription that he gave me. I followed it
exactly for several months, and voila, knee pain is gone after 7 years. Any
time it hints of coming back I get out my stretchy band and start up again.

Penny

Thanks for the post Penny. I am in a simiar boat, diagnosed with a
bad-tracking patella. I do no stretching, but it couldn't hurt.

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado
(remove ".nospam" to reply)

Monique Y. Mudama said:

I've gotten the chain caught between the rings and the frame (I think
that's it -- definitely wedged on the frame) a couple of times, all
while shifting uphill. Just to be sure, that's the definition of chain
suck, right?

It depends on where its wedged. If its wedged between the small ring and
the frame just to the right of the small ring, its a dropped chain. Often
this doesn't get wedged, it just sort of flops around. If the chain seems
to hang onto the gear too long and comes around and wedges against the
frame behind the gear (nearly wrapping around itself on the gear), that's
chain suck. I spent five years or so thinking a dropped chain was chain
suck!

Back to you original question: I don't think there's a great solution to
the problem of being in the right gear at the bottom of a hill. I read a
bit of advice once from some racer (I think her name was Allison Sydor),
basically saying that if the hill is extremely long, don't worry about
losing that momentum - being in the right gear is more important in the
long run. Sometimes I'll upshift a few cogs in the back to get a little
more out of the momentum, but I don't worry so much about keeping that
momentum. Short hills are just the opposite - you can stay in a high gear
and use the momentum to get you over it. We just don't have that many
short hills here. :-)

Quoted message said:

I did notice that my heel was close enough to the frame (or is that bb?
whatever that thingie running from one ring to the other is) to
occasionally make light contact. So this sounds plausible.

I seem to recall that pain on the inside of the knee has to do with
alignment. But rubbing the crank isn't all bad. Oh, I can't believe I just
wrote that. :-) What I mean is, your shoe rubbing up against the crank
isn't an indicator of an alignment problem - I wore a hole in my first
pair of shoes, and I suspect that's why many shoes have a piece of hard
plastic on the inside heel. I've never had pain on the inside of my knee
(just every OTHER part!).

Quoted message said:

Indeed. And it's easy to clip out when you're planning for it -- but
when I decide I *need* to clip out, there are often sharp pointy things
all about.

That comes in time, and you're taking the right approach by using them on
rides where you have time to think about clipping out. At some point your
brain becomes trained to do it naturally, without conscious effort, and
you can unclip even in the worst of situations.

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

gabrielle <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did you get prescription lenses for these? I would really like to have a
pair of glasses that covers more of my (also small) face. (I wear kid's
glasses, if that gives you a clue.) I need Rx lenses though, and haven't
been too thrilled with the options I've seen in sports glasses.

I used the Kerosene glasses with the optical adaptor for a couple of
seasons. They were adequate, but did have some tradeoffs compared to a
single lens system:

The insert pushes the outer lense further away from your face, so more
wind will slip by. My eyes water easily, so I noticed this a lot,
especially on cold days. Prior to the Kerosene glasses I had a cheap
no name pair of sport glasses with an insert. Because they were bigger
and clunkier they didn't have this leakage problem.

The system is more prone to reflections than a single lens spectacle.
The annoyance factor varied with lighting angle and direction. My
older pair shared this trait.

The inserts are more prone to fogging up than the outer glasses alone.

Dave Dowler

On 2004-05-20, Penny S penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

Quoted message said:

> Finally, look up some knee exercises on the web or from a PT.
> Gotta
strengthen those tendons around the patella.

*nodnod* ... in fact, I do two stretches and several exercises a day.
Started a few weeks ago. My kneecap apparently has been tracking
sideways for the last who knows how many years, causing the cartilage
damage which is my arthritis. I finally saw a doctor about it this
spring. It had gotten to the point where driving for an hour caused
extreme pain in my knees, and I would have to stop and limp. I
couldn't even drive to Denver without pain, ferchrissakes!

be sure you have the right diagnosis. I was mis diagnosed (by various
docs etc) as a mal-tracking patella (patella femoral syndrome,
chrondomalacia) for years, and tried all that stuff - ice, exercises
for the vastus medialis, taping the kneecap into place... I finally
went to see a sports podiatrist who specializes gait issues. He
rediagnosed me with overtight IT ( ilio-tibial) band and gave me a set
of prescription stretched to follow.

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2000/02_00/fredericson.htm

Yeah, when I started reading up on this thing, it sure seems like an
awful lot of people are diagnosed with it, which made me wonder if it's
not too easy for a doctor to assume that's the problem.

How would you suggest being sure the diagnosis is right?

The description of "sharp, burning lateral knee pain of iliotibial band"
from your link doesn't really fit. On the other hand, my PT found my
strength to be great, but my flexibility to be lacking, so maybe she's
covering both bases with me. She has certainly spent more time with my
knees now than the doctor did. It sounds like she's assigned me
exercises from the pfs side and stretches from the it band side.

The ortho surgeon seemed to decide that it was pfs and
chrondosnuffalupagous or whatever based on several reasons:

- Keeping my knees bent for extended periods of time (driving, movie
theater, etc) is painful

- My knees click, and sometimes feel like they're "catching" when I try
to extend my legs fully

- He could see/feel the shifting when I bent my knees

- Xrays showed no other sources of problems, though they did show slight
fuzziness at the bottom of the kneecap indicating cartilage damage
(chrondomalacia)

Anyway, my PT. We decided that braces and/or taping would be more
irritating to me than the pain I feel, since it's usually minor during
activities. She found that my strength in both quads and hamstrings is
fine; the problem seems to be that I'm too tight, just like you've
described for yourself. In the first picture of your link, they show
the modified Thompson stretch -- I did that and the leg that wasn't
being held close to the chest pretty much stuck straight out.

The two stretches I do are:

1. Kneel so that one knee is on the ground. Push the hip forward on
the side whose knee is on the ground. Hold 30. This is pretty subtle,
but I definitely feel it.

2. She calls this her pretzel stretch and said it's kind of her own
invention. Lie down on your side. Grab the foot of the leg that's on
top and pull it to your butt, like you would if you were stretching your
quad standing up. Then take the bottom leg and use that foot to pull
your upper knee down. (Okay, this is hard to describe in text.) I
really feel this right at the outside of my knee and also up by my hip.
Hold 30.

Then I do a bunch of generic quad exercises. Abbreviated wall squats.
Standing on a step with one foot dangling and lowering that foot to the
ground. That kind of thing. Whether or not they specifically help my
knee problems, I like what they've been doing for my strength.

Oh, she's also a big believer in working on balance, so I get to stand
on one foot with my eyes closed, too. That's tough.

Quoted message said:

This article is the exact prescription that he gave me. I followed it
exactly for several months, and voila, knee pain is gone after 7
years. Any time it hints of coming back I get out my stretchy band
and start up again.

Very cool. I've been told it will take months to really know if these
exercises have been working.

--
monique

On 2004-05-20, Dave penned:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I used the Kerosene glasses with the optical adaptor for a couple of
seasons. They were adequate, but did have some tradeoffs compared to a
single lens system:

The insert pushes the outer lense further away from your face, so more
wind will slip by. My eyes water easily, so I noticed this a lot,
especially on cold days. Prior to the Kerosene glasses I had a cheap
no name pair of sport glasses with an insert. Because they were bigger
and clunkier they didn't have this leakage problem.

I'm wondering if your face is as small as mine ... I have trouble
imagining that the kerosene would ever let air leak through on my face,
even with a bit of distance added.

Quoted message said:

The system is more prone to reflections than a single lens spectacle.
The annoyance factor varied with lighting angle and direction. My
older pair shared this trait.

The store owner told me that anti-reflective treatment was a must for
inserts, because the two-lens thing makes reflection worse. Did your
prescription lenses have an a-r coating? If not, that might help.

Quoted message said:

The inserts are more prone to fogging up than the outer glasses alone.

That I'd believe =/

--
monique

On 2004-05-20, Monique Y. Mudama penned:

Quoted message said:

Standing on a step with one foot dangling and lowering that foot to
the ground.

What I meant to describe there is the same as figure 11 in your link,
Penny.

--
monique

Monique Y. Mudama said:

- Getting used to clipless at my own pace (I'm trying the multirelease
cleats now, but the idea of stopping, then toppling still scares the
bejeesus out of me). I can slow down to almost a halt and practice
clipping in and out without wasting anyone's time.

My first clipless ride was with Linda, along this old logging trail. I
slow down almost to a stop, unclip my left foot and proceed to fall over
to my right! So I'm laying there, my shoulder is this gooey sticky mess
now, and Linda comes over to me and says "OOOhhhhhh, you found
Blueberries!!!". That's what the sticky mess on my shoulder was, mashed
Blueberries....<sigh>

Anyway, what I did was take a piece of masking tape and write "UNCLIP"
on it, and put it on my bars. For the next couple of months it acted as
a reminder, and eventually the thought of unclipping became ingrained
and was a natural response.

Sounds dorky, but it worked. Now if only I could distinguis right vs
left...
--
- Rog

http://www.wpcusrgrp.org/~rogerbuchanan/index.html

NOTE: to Reply to this, remove the phrase "NOSPAM"
from my "Reply To:" address, or it will be returned.

Roger Buchanan said:

My first clipless ride was with Linda, along this old logging trail. I
slow down almost to a stop, unclip my left foot and proceed to fall over
to my right!

I did this a bunch of times, too. My first ride with clipless on a
technical trail went fine - no inability to get unclipped in emergencies -
until the trail split and I stopped to mull over which way to go.
Unclipped the left foot, and fell to the right - down a long hill. My
right foot stayed clipped-in long enough to launch the bike into the air
just above the hill from me, and it landed about 1/4" below my helmet. I
had a big swollen bruise on my eyebrow for awhile.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, what I did was take a piece of masking tape and write "UNCLIP"
on it, and put it on my bars. For the next couple of months it acted as
a reminder, and eventually the thought of unclipping became ingrained
and was a natural response.

Actually that sounds like a really good idea!

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

Craig Brossman said:

Penny S said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

>> Finally, look up some knee exercises on the web or from a PT.
>> Gotta
>
> strengthen those tendons around the patella.

*nodnod* ... in fact, I do two stretches and several exercises a
day. Started a few weeks ago. My kneecap apparently has been
tracking sideways for the last who knows how many years, causing
the cartilage damage which is my arthritis. I finally saw a doctor
about it this spring. It had gotten to the point where driving for
an hour caused extreme pain in my knees, and I would have to stop
and limp. I couldn't even drive to Denver without pain,
ferchrissakes!

be sure you have the right diagnosis. I was mis diagnosed (by
various docs etc) as a mal-tracking patella (patella femoral
syndrome, chrondomalacia) for years, and tried all that stuff - ice,
exercises for the vastus medialis, taping the kneecap into place...
I finally went to see a sports podiatrist who specializes gait
issues. He rediagnosed me with overtight IT ( ilio-tibial) band and
gave me a set of prescription stretched to follow.

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2000/02_00/fredericson.htm

This article is the exact prescription that he gave me. I followed
it exactly for several months, and voila, knee pain is gone after 7
years. Any time it hints of coming back I get out my stretchy band
and start up again.

Penny

Thanks for the post Penny. I am in a simiar boat, diagnosed with a
bad-tracking patella. I do no stretching, but it couldn't hurt.

It's REALLY common for cyclists and runners to get an overly tight IT band
and be mis-diagnosed. I've been there and so have several of my friends.
Now, whenever a knee gets sore, if I just stretch my IT band (even on the
trail) a little it will almost always fix it right up. Try it, it may fix
your woes like magic!

Matt

Monique Y. Mudama said:

Yeah, when I started reading up on this thing, it sure seems like an
awful lot of people are diagnosed with it, which made me wonder if
it's not too easy for a doctor to assume that's the problem.

How would you suggest being sure the diagnosis is right?

Try what they recommend, and if it doesn't work, try something else. Like I
said, took me years to get this figured out. Just save surgery for the last
resort. Orthos get paid to cut. They even like to cut over tight IT bands!!

Quoted message said:

The description of "sharp, burning lateral knee pain of iliotibial
band" from your link doesn't really fit. On the other hand, my PT
found my strength to be great, but my flexibility to be lacking, so
maybe she's covering both bases with me. She has certainly spent
more time with my knees now than the doctor did. It sounds like
she's assigned me exercises from the pfs side and stretches from the
it band side.

My pain presented as achiness, throbbing on the outside of the knees
sometimes to sharp stabbing. Relentless at times.
Taping provided relief, as did massive amount of ibuprofen and ice.

The stretches that work best for me are the #5, #6. combined with the step
ups

I'd be really careful about doing a lot of quad work until you get this
figured out. The IT band is part of the quad muscle group.

penny