RR: SoCal Riding - LONG!

Quoted message said:

This ride report is for two different areas. I was in town
for some business and took my ride with me. {Major
Snippage, at your service}

Nice pics and write-up -- sounds like you got a good taste
of So Cal riding (rocks, ruts and cliffs, oh my! 🙂

Only been to Aliso once, I think, but ridden SJT many times.
If you're at all afraid of heights, San Juan Trail is an
adventure, to say the least! (The upper half doesn't have
the vertical "exposure" of the lower portion, but is much
more technical in places.) Need to be careful on way down,
as fatigue can make one sloppy (IOW, dead!)...

Bill "thanks for the RR" S.

San Juan can be spooky, it's true. If you are at all afraid
of heights it may not be the best choice. As far as fatality
possibilities go, last year a guy fell off the trail and
died, and nobody found him for a few days... sometimes it
sucks to ride alone. That said, SJT is one of my favorite
solo rides.

Here's photo:

Quoted message said:

gallery.consumerreview.comdscnOpen ↗
0061(1).jpg

Here's another:

Quoted message said:

gallery.consumerreview.com1810Open ↗
8784.SwitchBacks.jpg

miles

"S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This ride report is for two different areas. I was in
town for some business and took my ride with me. {Major
Snippage, at your service}

Nice pics and write-up -- sounds like you got a good taste
of So Cal

riding

Quoted message said:

(rocks, ruts and cliffs, oh my! 🙂

Only been to Aliso once, I think, but ridden SJT many
times. If you're at all afraid of heights, San Juan Trail
is an adventure, to say the least! (The upper half doesn't
have the vertical "exposure" of the lower portion, but is
much more technical in places.) Need to be careful on way
down, as fatigue can make one sloppy (IOW, dead!)...

Bill "thanks for the RR" S.

I don't think it was so much the height as being alone. I'm
still at the point in my riding where I need occassional
words of encouragement from others. It takes my mind off of
the danger. I didn't have that on SJT. My two biggest fears
are falling off a cliff with no one there to recover my body
and getting lost.

Ride-A-Lot <Mitchell@ wrote:

[snip cool RR]

Cool pics, I've been wanting to ride SJT for a long time.
That might just be the incentive I needed. Looks nice.

-Bruce

"Bruce Edge" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ride-A-Lot <Mitchell@ wrote:

[snip cool RR]

Cool pics, I've been wanting to ride SJT for a long time.
That might just be the incentive I needed. Looks nice.

-Bruce

Good luck and stay safe!

Ride-A-Lot Mitchell@ said:

This ride report is for two different areas. I was in town
for some business and took my ride with me. After going
over some trail maps and discussing with some native
MTBers, I decided I would ride Aliso-Woods
(socalmtb.comaliso.htmOpen ↗) on
Saturday for a warm up and then try the San Juan Trail
(socalmtb.comhotsprin.htmOpen ↗)
on Sunday, which was classified as "advanced". By the time
I reached Aliso-Woods on Saturday morning, the skies
opened up and the park was being closed. So back to the
hotel to wait for Sunday. I'm always one who tries to get
their money's worth. So having lugged my bike from NJ, I
wasn't about to do just one trail.

<snip great RR>

Quoted message said:

Thanks for reading!

Ride-A-Lot www.schnauzers.ws

Man, you're stoked, you got to hit both of them! SJT isn't
too advanced for you. If you made that 6 mile climb, you're
doing very good... you just need a ride buddy next time to
keep you company. It does get spooky there by yourself.

Sheesh, and you rode down Mathias... dang, I've only had the
unfortunate displeasure of climbing it, and never cleanly.

Great pix too... thanks! Look forward to the video.
--
Slacker

"Slacker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ride-A-Lot Mitchell@ said:

This ride report is for two different areas. I was in
town for some business and took my ride with me. After
going over some trail maps and discussing with some
native MTBers, I decided I would ride Aliso-Woods
(socalmtb.comaliso.htmOpen ↗) on
Saturday for a

warm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up and then try the San Juan Trail (socalmtb-socalmtb-Open ↗
.com/socal/trails/maps/hotsprin.htm) on Sunday,

which

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was classified as "advanced". By the time I reached Aliso-
Woods on

Saturday

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

morning, the skies opened up and the park was being
closed. So back to

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hotel to wait for Sunday. I'm always one who tries to
get their money's worth. So having lugged my bike from
NJ, I wasn't about to do just one trail.

<snip great RR>

Quoted message said:

Thanks for reading!

Ride-A-Lot www.schnauzers.ws

Man, you're stoked, you got to hit both of them! SJT isn't
too advanced for you. If you made that 6 mile climb,
you're doing very good... you just need a ride buddy next
time to keep you company. It does get spooky there by
yourself.

Like I said, I was going to make it worth bringing the bike
and flying America West,

I'll be back late next March for a pre-con. I'll stay the
weekend then too. Maybe we can meet up for a ride or two.

Quoted message said:

Sheesh, and you rode down Mathias... dang, I've only had
the unfortunate displeasure of climbing it, and never
cleanly.

Well, Cholla wasn't exactly a pleasure to go up either. If I
had my body armor with me, I would have been a little faster
on Mathias. It was exciting and I am still feeling the
euthoria of the riding today.

Ride-A-Lot Mitchell@ said:

I'll be back late next March for a pre-con. I'll stay the
weekend then too. Maybe we can meet up for a ride or two.

Sounds like a plan... I'm in!
--
Slacker

Great report, it is good to get someone's impression of our
trails from outside of our area. I do ride San Juan alone
but only after having done it with friends a few times
first...and only during the weekdays with the shuttle
monkeys aren't as prevalent...sorry Slacker.

Aliso is fun but I also stay away on weekends...way to many
people. I can now climb Cholla without dabbing or
stopping...it took numerous attempts and about 1 year of
riding to get strong enough. Next time try coming off West
Ridge on Rocket or Lynx...both single tracks and more fun
than the fireroad decent.

On the West slope of West Ridge did you see any of the
downhill single tracks dropping into Laguna Canyon Road? IE:
Dog Patch, Direct Dial, Telonics, or Steps. If you though
SJT was treacherous.

Dean Stepper Laguna Beach, CA

"Ride-A-Lot schnauzers.ws>" <Mitchell@<NOSPAM> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This ride report is for two different areas. I was in town
for some business and took my ride with me. After going
over some trail maps and discussing with some native
MTBers, I decided I would ride Aliso-Woods
(socalmtb.comaliso.htmOpen ↗) on
Saturday for a

warm

Quoted message said:

up and then try the San Juan Trail
(socalmtb.comhotsprin.htmOpen ↗)
on Sunday, which was classified as "advanced". By the time
I reached Aliso-Woods on

Saturday

Quoted message said:

morning, the skies opened up and the park was being
closed. So back to

the

Quoted message said:

hotel to wait for Sunday. I'm always one who tries to get
their money's worth. So having lugged my bike from NJ, I
wasn't about to do just one trail.

Sunday morning I headed out to Aliso-Woods. When I got
their the Ranger said the park was closed and probably
wouldn't be open until Tuesday. I thought that was
strange and as you'll see later, I'm glad I thought that.
So, I headed south to San Juan Capastrano and the San
Juan Trail.

www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0879.jpg

There were a few cars in the parking lot, but no physical
beings. I knew
this was a tough trail and I sure hoped there would be
people along the

way,

Quoted message said:

just in case. I found the trail and then started to head
up. I was immediately presented with the mother of all
switchbacks (at least 10 of them in a row).

www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0838.jpg
www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0889.jpg

Here is a look back at the switchbacks once I reached the
top of them:

www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0881.jpg

I am a more confident rider when I am with a group.
Alone, I get scared. Especially when riding on the side
of a cliff!

www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0882.jpg

Here is what I had accomplished thus far:

www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0885.jpg
www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0886.jpg

My confidence level would go up and down with each motion
of my feet. Looking down would stop me dead in my tracks.
I was scared [censored] for most

of

Quoted message said:

this ride. We don't have cliffside riding in PA/NJ.

Not only was this trail narrow, it was deeply rutted and
washed out in places. None-the-less, I trodded on upwards
from the 800' starting point

to

Quoted message said:

3200' six miles later. As I got closer to the peak, the
trail became even more narrow and rockier. A fall here
would have been fatal.

www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0887.jpg

It was at this point that I put the camera away because
there was nolonger

a

Quoted message said:

place to stop. I continued up until I was about 1 mile
from the top.

www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0884.jpg

It was here that I had a dose of reality. I had to go back
down this

steep,

Quoted message said:

rutted, narrow, rock strewn trail. I didn't want my kids
to grow up

without

Quoted message said:

a father. I turned my bike around leaning on the wall of
the ridge as

rocks

Quoted message said:

and dirt came loose. I did not go very fast on the way
down fearing the switchbacks. Occassionally, I had to
hunker on the side as DH'ers would bomb down the trail.
More power to them, I'll take my slow pace.

Back at the car, I was a little disappointed that I didn't
go to the top. At least I live for another day to try
again with other people around me.

Having not had enough riding for the day, I decided to go
back to Aliso-Woods on whim that conditions have changed.
At the park, the ranger was just opening the gates. He
said that it had dried out pretty fast and he was opening
the park. No cliffside riding here, but some great views

and

Quoted message said:

interesting trails.

My first goal was to reach top of the world. I head up the
fire road

toward

Quoted message said:

Cholla trail.

www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0890.jpg
www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0893.jpg
www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0896.jpg

I reached the Cholla trail and decided to take it up
instead of the fire road. This trail rises 225 feet in 1/4
of a mile. I knew it would be a nice climb and It
certainly had some different flower and fawna.

www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0900.jpg
www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0901.jpg

Looking down from a switchback:
www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0902.jpg

Looking up from the switchback (that dirt road in the
distance is where I was heading):
www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0905.jpg

More climbing: www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0906.jpg

At the top I took the fire road to top of the world. The
last climb was a doosy!

Looking up: www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0907.jpg

Looking down: www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0908.jpg

The view from the top of the world:
www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0911.jpg
www.pchospital.net/cali/img_0914.jpg

I then bombed down the Mathis trail (no pics, it was too
much fun to stop) onto the main fire road and back out to
the car. It was an incredible end to an incredible day. So
much so that I treated myself to a Mickey Bar (I used to
eat three of these in a row) at Disneyland that evening.

SJT was way too advanced for me, but Aliso-Woods proved to
be a good

choice.

Quoted message said:

I'm sure there are other nice trails in the area, but I
did not go away unhappy. I shot some video of both trails
which I will edit and post next weeked.

Thanks for reading!

Ride-A-Lot www.schnauzers.ws

"Ride-A-Lot schnauzers.ws>" <Mitchell@<NOSPAM> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This ride report is for two different areas. I was in town
for some business and took my ride with me. After going
over some trail maps and

<Major Snippage>

SJT actually gets more fun towards the top. But, it also
helps to have a little local knowledge since the fun trails
(Chiquito and Viajas Tie) aren't that obvious in where they
go/end up if you don't know ahead of time.

the switchbacks, there are 31 in total I believe but like 22
in the opening 2 miles, can be challenging for sure. There's
one in the opening sequence that gives me trouble going
uphill regularly, although any of them can cause a problem
from ride to ride. There's another one further up that I've
never made. It's just too rocky and I'm already kind of
winded by the time I get there to ever succeed at it. One
day maybe!

I"m not sure why, but SJT never spooked me too badly becuase
of the exposure. I've been on other trails where I was more
concerned but I always felt pretty safe on SJT. I don't come
down at breakneck speeds, but I do okay. there are a few
rough spots to watch out for though.

You do have to be very careful on weekdays though for
the shuttle up and ride crowd. They're usually out in
force after about 10:00 after stumbling out of bed
around 9:00 or so!

if you want to relive the experience before you edit your
video, check out mountainbikebill.commountainbikebill.comOpen ↗ for his
videos or my site here: s92441708.onlinehome.uss92441708.onlinehome.usOpen ↗
San%20Juan%20Trail/sjt.htm

Michael

"Dean A. Stepper" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:PM_gc.22885$Rz3.16820@fed1read05...

Quoted message said:

Great report, it is good to get someone's impression of
our trails from outside of our area. I do ride San Juan
alone but only after having done

it

Quoted message said:

with friends a few times first...and only during the
weekdays with the shuttle monkeys aren't as
prevalent...sorry Slacker.

Aliso is fun but I also stay away on weekends...way to
many people. I can now climb Cholla without dabbing or
stopping...it took numerous attempts

and

Quoted message said:

about 1 year of riding to get strong enough. Next time try
coming off

West

Quoted message said:

Ridge on Rocket or Lynx...both single tracks and more fun
than the

fireroad

Quoted message said:

decent.

When I stopped there Saturday morning before the rain came
down, the parking lot and road were packed! I can see what
you mean about the weekends being crowded. Sunday, the park
was closed in the morning and most people were told it would
be that way until Tuesday. That meant when the opened it on
Sunday afternoon, I basically had the whole thing to myself.

I made up Cholla, stopping once to take pics. This was a
surprise because I didn't think I was strong enough yet to
do it and I was able to restart on the up slope. I saw
rocket and decided to pass without any protection.

Quoted message said:

On the West slope of West Ridge did you see any of the
downhill single tracks dropping into Laguna Canyon Road?
IE: Dog Patch, Direct Dial, Telonics, or Steps. If you
though SJT was treacherous.

Dean Stepper Laguna Beach, CA

I saw those very steep lines. What's the incline on those? I
was on an ultralight so hucking and DH was out of the
question (not that I do that on a normal day).

"Ride-A-Lot schnauzers.ws>" <Mitchell@<NOSPAM> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Slacker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

Ride-A-Lot Mitchell@ said:

This ride report is for two different areas. I was in
town for some business and took my ride with me. After
going over some trail maps

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

discussing with some native MTBers, I decided I would
ride Aliso-Woods
(socalmtb.comaliso.htmOpen ↗)
on Saturday for

a

Quoted message said:

warm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up and then try the San Juan Trail (socalm-socalm-Open ↗
tb.com/socal/trails/maps/hotsprin.htm) on Sunday,

which

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was classified as "advanced". By the time I reached
Aliso-Woods on

Saturday

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

morning, the skies opened up and the park was being
closed. So back

to

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hotel to wait for Sunday. I'm always one who tries to
get their

money's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

worth. So having lugged my bike from NJ, I wasn't
about to do just

one

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

trail.

<snip great RR>

Quoted message said:

Thanks for reading!

Ride-A-Lot www.schnauzers.ws

Man, you're stoked, you got to hit both of them! SJT
isn't too advanced for you. If you made that 6 mile
climb, you're doing very good... you just need a ride
buddy next time to keep you company. It does get spooky
there by yourself.

Like I said, I was going to make it worth bringing the
bike and flying America West,

I'll be back late next March for a pre-con. I'll stay the
weekend then

too.

Quoted message said:

Maybe we can meet up for a ride or two.

Quoted message said:

Sheesh, and you rode down Mathias... dang, I've only had
the unfortunate displeasure of climbing it, and never
cleanly.

Well, Cholla wasn't exactly a pleasure to go up either. If
I had my body armor with me, I would have been a little
faster on Mathias. It was exciting and I am still feeling
the euthoria of the riding today.

cholla is kind of the quickest and most direct route up to
maximize downhill pleasure though. I've only ridden AW once
but we ended up going up Cholla twice and down Rock-It and
probably Mathis (not entirely sure). Cholla hurts, but it's
over in a hurry. and it'd be a bummer to spend a lot of time
climbing another trail and then going down Cholla!

Michael

miles todd said:

San Juan can be spooky, it's true. If you are at all
afraid of heights it may not be the best choice. As far as
fatality possibilities go, last year a guy fell off the
trail and died, and nobody found him for a few days...
sometimes it sucks to ride alone. That said, SJT is one of
my favorite solo rides.

Here's photo:

Quoted message said:

gallery.consumerreview.comdscOpen ↗
n0061(1).jpg

Here's another:

Quoted message said:

gallery.consumerreview.com181Open ↗
08784.SwitchBacks.jpg

I don't know. I'm deathly afraid of heights but most of San
Juan is so wide I never even notice the drop. Put me on
Upper Sam Merrill or Strawberry Peak in the San Gabriels and
I can barely move.

Greg

Ride-A-Lot

Quoted message said:

"S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This ride report is for two different areas. I was in
town for some business and took my ride with me. {Major
Snippage, at your service}

Nice pics and write-up -- sounds like you got a good taste
of So Cal

riding

Quoted message said:

(rocks, ruts and cliffs, oh my! 🙂

Only been to Aliso once, I think, but ridden SJT many
times. If you're at all afraid of heights, San Juan Trail
is an adventure, to say the least! (The upper half doesn't
have the vertical "exposure" of the lower portion, but is
much more technical in places.) Need to be careful on way
down, as fatigue can make one sloppy (IOW, dead!)...

Bill "thanks for the RR" S.

I don't think it was so much the height as being alone.
I'm still at the point in my riding where I need
occassional words of encouragement from others. It takes
my mind off of the danger. I didn't have that on SJT. My
two biggest fears are falling off a cliff with no one
there to recover my body

I get that fear all the time.

Quoted message said:

and getting lost.

That's never a fear for me. At worst it's an annoyance since
I'm always prepared, at best it just adds to the adventure.

Greg

I don't know I don't ride them. I am comfortable on Laguna Ridge Trail and
that is a 35 percent loose and rocky downhill and not nearly as steep as the
ones I mentioned in Aliso. We have a few local professional downhillers
that use those trails on a regular basis. I run into members of Team Turner
once in awhile out there. They also seem to use Drunken Sailor and T & A
Drop (Laguna Ridge) in Laguna Wilderness Park.
"Ride-A-Lot schnauzers.ws>" <Mitchell@<NOSPAM> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dean A. Stepper" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:PM_gc.22885$Rz3.16820@fed1read05...

Quoted message said:

Great report, it is good to get someone's impression of
our trails from outside of our area. I do ride San Juan
alone but only after having

done

Quoted message said:

it

Quoted message said:

with friends a few times first...and only during the
weekdays with the shuttle monkeys aren't as
prevalent...sorry Slacker.

Aliso is fun but I also stay away on weekends...way to
many people. I

can

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

now climb Cholla without dabbing or stopping...it took
numerous attempts

and

Quoted message said:

about 1 year of riding to get strong enough. Next time
try coming off

West

Quoted message said:

Ridge on Rocket or Lynx...both single tracks and more
fun than the

fireroad

Quoted message said:

decent.

When I stopped there Saturday morning before the rain came
down, the

parking

Quoted message said:

lot and road were packed! I can see what you mean about
the weekends

being

Quoted message said:

crowded. Sunday, the park was closed in the morning and
most people were told it would be that way until Tuesday.
That meant when the opened it on Sunday afternoon, I
basically had the whole thing to myself.

I made up Cholla, stopping once to take pics. This was a
surprise because

I

Quoted message said:

didn't think I was strong enough yet to do it and I was
able to restart on the up slope. I saw rocket and decided
to pass without any protection.

Quoted message said:

On the West slope of West Ridge did you see any of the
downhill single tracks dropping into Laguna Canyon Road?
IE: Dog Patch, Direct Dial, Telonics, or Steps. If you
though SJT was treacherous.

Dean Stepper Laguna Beach, CA

I saw those very steep lines. What's the incline on those?
I was on an ultralight so hucking and DH was out of the
question (not that I do that

on

Quoted message said:

a normal day).

G.T. said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't know. I'm deathly afraid of heights but most of
San Juan is so wide I never even notice the drop. Put me
on Upper Sam Merrill or Strawberry Peak in the San
Gabriels and I can barely move.

Greg

Hmmm. You would love Scissors Crossing then. Oh wait- you've
ridden it, as I seem to recall. That has some good
agoraphobia potential. Of course, Carrizo Gorge is bad for
those afraid of falling off of cliffs, too... or so I have
been told.

miles

Ride-A-Lot

Quoted message said:

I made up Cholla, stopping once to take pics. This was a
surprise because I didn't think I was strong enough yet to
do it and I was able to restart on the up slope. I saw
rocket and decided to pass without any protection.

I was riding up Cholla one time (actually an AM-B Gathering,
now that I think of it) and I politely asked a guy to let me
pass. He made no move to do so, so I asked him again,
explaining that it was extremely hard for me to go so slow.
I'm sure he thought I was an arrogant jerk, but what he
didn't know was that it was all I could do to keep enough
forward momentum at 10 RPM to not fall over. Finally the
trail widened ever so slightly and I got past him. When he
saw I was on a single speed, he asked "why didn't you say
something? If I'd known I would have let you by." That was
by far my most difficult climb up that damned trail. I rode
up Mathis that day, too... ouch.

miles

miles todd said:

G.T. said:

Quoted message said:

>

I don't know. I'm deathly afraid of heights but most of
San Juan is so wide I never even notice the drop. Put me
on Upper Sam Merrill or Strawberry Peak in the San
Gabriels and I can barely move.

Greg

Hmmm. You would love Scissors Crossing then. Oh wait-
you've ridden it, as I seem to recall. That has some good
agoraphobia potential.

Yeah, I was ok on Scissors, again the trail is wide enough
to not scare me too much.

Quoted message said:

Of course, Carrizo Gorge is bad for those afraid of
falling off of cliffs, too... or so I have been told.

I was surprised that the trestles didn't bother me that
much. But that section where that guy fell off of the side
freaks me. I'm glad I wasn't there. I don't think I would
have had the nerve to ride back to the car.

The stuff that scares me is unmaintained forest service
trail, particularly on the front side of the San Gabriels,
when the trail gets eroded down to a few inches. Behind me
on this shot was a section that was scary to walk while
carrying a bike:

2fortheroad.netstopped.htmlOpen ↗

Unfortunately the shot back toward the steep stuff was too
dark, it was quite a bit steeper and the trail was only the
width of a boot.

Greg

"G.T." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

miles todd said:

G.T. said:

>>

I don't know. I'm deathly afraid of heights but most of
San Juan is so wide I never even notice the drop. Put
me on Upper Sam Merrill or Strawberry Peak in the San
Gabriels and I can barely move.

Greg

Hmmm. You would love Scissors Crossing then. Oh wait-
you've ridden it, as I seem to recall. That has some
good agoraphobia potential.

Yeah, I was ok on Scissors, again the trail is wide enough
to not scare me too much.

Quoted message said:

Of course, Carrizo Gorge is bad for those afraid of
falling off of cliffs, too... or so I have been told.

I was surprised that the trestles didn't bother me that
much. But that section where that guy fell off of the side
freaks me. I'm glad I wasn't there. I don't think I would
have had the nerve to ride back to the car.

The stuff that scares me is unmaintained forest
service trail,

particularly

Quoted message said:

on the front side of the San Gabriels, when the trail gets
eroded down to

a

Quoted message said:

few inches. Behind me on this shot was a section that was
scary to walk while carrying a bike:

2fortheroad.netstopped.htmlOpen ↗

Unfortunately the shot back toward the steep stuff was too
dark, it was quite a bit steeper and the trail was only
the width of a boot.

Greg

I would be afraid to ride that trail with that back tire.