RR: Marconi 18-Jun-05

ritcho said:

Stick a fork in me, I'm done.

A beautiful winter's day greeted the 24 riders in B-grade as Marconi
hosted the club combine at the Western Sydney International Dragway.
I've not raced at WSID before, the course included the main dragstrip
for the finishing sprint and included a kind of L-shape as the course
went around the carpark as well for a lap of about 3km.

B-grade set off for eighteen laps, including the first lap to be run as
a neutral as the course had been amended. The pace didn't pick up very
much in the first couple of laps with no-one willing to push the pace.
Parramatta, Penrith and Marconi were more or less equally represented,
which seemed to cause some confusion over who should control the pace.
The away teams pushed Marconi into the job.

A few laps passed and the attacks started - they didn't seem to be real
attacks - more like ones designed to try to create a split in the bunch.
All were unsuccessful as there were always plenty of people willing to
close the breaks down.... and so it went for most of the race. My
strategy, at least initially, was to gamble on no early breaks, but to
have a go a little after half-way. It was going well and at around 6 to
go, a likely-looking pair of Marconis took off and I jumped on the back
and we pushed hard for a couple of laps, even getting a bit of a gap.
Not enough though - there was still plenty of firepower left in the
bunch and we were reeled back in.

From the moment we were back together, I knew it was all over for me as
I spent a lot in trying to get away and I really don't have a fast
sprint. Sure enough, I went nowhere in the sprint and finished
mid-field.

What did I learn? The strategy wasn't a bad one, but execution could
have been a little better - picking the right group to go in a break is
the key. On reflection, there were a couple of riders that were a little
stronger that I might have followed instead. A different strategy would
have been to gamble on a bunch sprint and even though I don't have a
strong sprint, if I had done absolutely no work at the front or
chasing, I'd have half a chance - but this strategy just isn't
satisfying for me - I want to have a go.

Oh well - at least it was a tailwind for the 30k ride home.

Ritch

Picking the right break is a matter of experience and luck. I'm with
you though, sticking around just to contest the bunch sprint is the
wimps way out. I haven't seen many early breaks succeed, but anything
after the 1/2 way mark often has a fair chance if you are with the right
guys. Pity I missed it yesterday...

Good luck next time.

--
BrettS

BrettS said:

Picking the right break is a matter of experience and luck. I'm with
you though, sticking around just to contest the bunch sprint is the
wimps way out. I haven't seen many early breaks succeed, but anything
after the 1/2 way mark often has a fair chance if you are with the right
guys. Pity I missed it yesterday...

Good luck next time.

--
BrettS

"My name is FD, and Im a Wimp"

quote='BrettS'ritcho said:

Stick a fork in me, I'm done.

A beautiful winter's day greeted the 24 riders in B-grade as Marconi
hosted the club combine at the Western Sydney International Dragway.
I've not raced at WSID before, the course included the main dragstrip
for the finishing sprint and included a kind of L-shape as the course
went around the carpark as well for a lap of about 3km.

B-grade set off for eighteen laps, including the first lap to be run as
a neutral as the course had been amended. The pace didn't pick up very
much in the first couple of laps with no-one willing to push the pace.
Parramatta, Penrith and Marconi were more or less equally represented,
which seemed to cause some confusion over who should control the pace.
The away teams pushed Marconi into the job.

A few laps passed and the attacks started - they didn't seem to be real
attacks - more like ones designed to try to create a split in the bunch.
All were unsuccessful as there were always plenty of people willing to
close the breaks down.... and so it went for most of the race. My
strategy, at least initially, was to gamble on no early breaks, but to
have a go a little after half-way. It was going well and at around 6 to
go, a likely-looking pair of Marconis took off and I jumped on the back
and we pushed hard for a couple of laps, even getting a bit of a gap.
Not enough though - there was still plenty of firepower left in the
bunch and we were reeled back in.

From the moment we were back together, I knew it was all over for me as
I spent a lot in trying to get away and I really don't have a fast
sprint. Sure enough, I went nowhere in the sprint and finished
mid-field.

What did I learn? The strategy wasn't a bad one, but execution could
have been a little better - picking the right group to go in a break is
the key. On reflection, there were a couple of riders that were a little
stronger that I might have followed instead. A different strategy would
have been to gamble on a bunch sprint and even though I don't have a
strong sprint, if I had done absolutely no work at the front or
chasing, I'd have half a chance - but this strategy just isn't
satisfying for me - I want to have a go.

Oh well - at least it was a tailwind for the 30k ride home.

Ritch

Picking the right break is a matter of experience and luck. I'm with
you though, sticking around just to contest the bunch sprint is the
wimps way out. I haven't seen many early breaks succeed, but anything
after the 1/2 way mark often has a fair chance if you are with the right
guys. Pity I missed it yesterday...

Good luck next time.

--
BrettS[/QUOTE]

I agree, it's better to have a go and get the occasionally result than sit in and wait for the bunch sprint which can be boring. I'm still a beginner, but most successful breaks I've seen are with about a third of the race to go. Earlier than that there are a lot of fresh riders that can chase, later than that and the sprinters will chase down everything that moves. I haven't been strong enough to do it much but I've found if you want to bridge it's better to let a break get a decent but barely bridgable gap, then when you go give it everything and try and fly past the front of the pack and make them hesitate to chase. If you ride off the front everyone just jumps on.

I thought I was in the winning break of 7 stronger riders on saturday, but it was only 10min to go and it was chased down. The winner did a solo break with 1 1/2 (short) laps to go, which I thought was doomed to fail but everyone waited for everyone else to chase to save their energy. He ended up winning. With 400m to go I went 100% as otherwise we were just giving the win away. With the earlier breakaway effort I couldn't shake the chasers and got mowed down but at least I had a go as I'm no sprinter.

flyingdutch said:

BrettS said:

Picking the right break is a matter of experience and luck. I'm with
you though, sticking around just to contest the bunch sprint is the
wimps way out. I haven't seen many early breaks succeed, but anything
after the 1/2 way mark often has a fair chance if you are with the
right
guys. Pity I missed it yesterday...

Good luck next time.

--
BrettS

"My name is FD, and Im a Wimp"

Really, I just get too bored to be a wimp...

--
Brett"goin' for glory"S

adam85 said:

BrettS said:

ritcho said:

Stick a fork in me, I'm done.

A beautiful winter's day greeted the 24 riders in B-grade as Marconi
hosted the club combine at the Western Sydney International Dragway.
I've not raced at WSID before, the course included the main

dragstrip

Quoted message said:

for the finishing sprint and included a kind of L-shape as the

course

Quoted message said:

went around the carpark as well for a lap of about 3km.

B-grade set off for eighteen laps, including the first lap to be run

as

Quoted message said:

a neutral as the course had been amended. The pace didn't pick up

very

Quoted message said:

much in the first couple of laps with no-one willing to push the

pace.

Quoted message said:

Parramatta, Penrith and Marconi were more or less equally

represented,

Quoted message said:

which seemed to cause some confusion over who should control the

pace.

Quoted message said:

The away teams pushed Marconi into the job.

A few laps passed and the attacks started - they didn't seem to be

real

Quoted message said:

attacks - more like ones designed to try to create a split in the

bunch.

Quoted message said:

All were unsuccessful as there were always plenty of people willing

to

Quoted message said:

close the breaks down.... and so it went for most of the race. My
strategy, at least initially, was to gamble on no early breaks, but

to

Quoted message said:

have a go a little after half-way. It was going well and at around 6

to

Quoted message said:

go, a likely-looking pair of Marconis took off and I jumped on the

back

Quoted message said:

and we pushed hard for a couple of laps, even getting a bit of a

gap.

Quoted message said:

Not enough though - there was still plenty of firepower left in the
bunch and we were reeled back in.

From the moment we were back together, I knew it was all over for me

as

Quoted message said:

I spent a lot in trying to get away and I really don't have a fast
sprint. Sure enough, I went nowhere in the sprint and finished
mid-field.

What did I learn? The strategy wasn't a bad one, but execution could
have been a little better - picking the right group to go in a break

is

Quoted message said:

the key. On reflection, there were a couple of riders that were a

little

Quoted message said:

stronger that I might have followed instead. A different strategy

would

Quoted message said:

have been to gamble on a bunch sprint and even though I don't have a
strong sprint, if I had done absolutely no work at the front or
chasing, I'd have half a chance - but this strategy just isn't
satisfying for me - I want to have a go.

Oh well - at least it was a tailwind for the 30k ride home.

Ritch

Picking the right break is a matter of experience and luck. I'm with
you though, sticking around just to contest the bunch sprint is the
wimps way out. I haven't seen many early breaks succeed, but anything
after the 1/2 way mark often has a fair chance if you are with the
right
guys. Pity I missed it yesterday...

Good luck next time.

--
BrettS

I agree, it's better to have a go and get the occasionally result than
sit in and wait for the bunch sprint which can be boring. I'm still a
beginner, but most successful breaks I've seen are with about a third
of the race to go. Earlier than that there are a lot of fresh riders
that can chase, later than that and the sprinters will chase down
everything that moves. I haven't been strong enough to do it much but
I've found if you want to bridge it's better to let a break get a
decent but barely bridgable gap, then when you go give it everything
and try and fly past the front of the pack and make them hesitate to
chase. If you ride off the front everyone just jumps on.

Exactly, although it took me a few races to figure that out...

Quoted message said:

I thought I was in the winning break of 7 stronger riders on saturday,
but it was only 10min to go and it was chased down. The winner did a
solo break with 1 1/2 (short) laps to go, which I thought was doomed to
fail but everyone waited for everyone else to chase to save their
energy. He ended up winning. With 400m to go I went 100% as otherwise
we were just giving the win away. With the earlier breakaway effort I
couldn't shake the chasers and got mowed down but at least I had a go
as I'm no sprinter.

I'll bet the winner sat back in the chasing bunch and shot off when
everyone else was shagged. A smart man with lucky timing.

--
Brett"no sprinter either"S

quote='BrettS'flyingdutch said:

BrettS said:

Picking the right break is a matter of experience and luck. I'm with
you though, sticking around just to contest the bunch sprint is the
wimps way out. I haven't seen many early breaks succeed, but anything
after the 1/2 way mark often has a fair chance if you are with the
right
guys. Pity I missed it yesterday...

Good luck next time.

--
BrettS

"My name is FD, and Im a Wimp"

Really, I just get too bored to be a wimp...

--
Brett"goin' for glory"S[/QUOTE]

Bored? Waiting for a bunch sprint is synonymous with futility for me!

Ritch

BrettS said:

Really, I just get too bored to be a wimp...

--
Brett"goin' for glory"S

hey, if you lack fitness
( i grew up being a baseballer, NOT an athlete! 🙄 )
and my only strength is a good kick over a short distance, I'll take the win anyway i can get it! I'd love to have the ability to solo (maybe one day...) but till that day comes its afterburners engaged for moi

That tactic of going with 2-3 laps to go has worked a few times at Glenvale (that i have witnessed anyhow)

BrettS said:

Picking the right break is a matter of experience and luck. I'm with
you though, sticking around just to contest the bunch sprint is the
wimps way out.

Bollocks. Every race is a gamble, and if your talent is a
big surge of pace, smart bike positioning and rat cunning,
what makes that any less committed to the race than trying to escape a
sprint b getting into a smaller group and winning that sprint?
Winning (o even getting in position to contest
with any chance of winning) a bunch kick at the end of
a long road race is no soft option. If it's too easy,
you're in the wrong grade.

ritcho said:

A few laps passed and the attacks started - they didn't seem to be real
attacks - more like ones designed to try to create a split in the bunch.
All were unsuccessful as there were always plenty of people willing to
close the breaks down.... and so it went for most of the race. My
strategy, at least initially, was to gamble on no early breaks, but to
have a go a little after half-way. It was going well and at around 6 to
go, a likely-looking pair of Marconis took off and I jumped on the back
and we pushed hard for a couple of laps, even getting a bit of a gap.
Not enough though - there was still plenty of firepower left in the
bunch and we were reeled back in.

I don't know what sort of team riding happens in NSW races,
but a break without members of at least 2 or 3 significant teams
represented in it is unlikely to stay away, as the other teams
will then have a vested interest in chasing it down. you
mentioned 3 clubs present - and the break had members of one
in it. The other two will chase it, but maybe let it hang out in
the breeze for a while totire out the breakees first. Sounds
like that's what happened.

We're doing some team riding in our B grade races now (it's
technically against the rules, but everyone's doing it, so we
have to too, and it is a lot more interesting than a bunch of
individuals), and I know that no break on a flat course
will stay away in B grade if one of my lads isn't in it,
and one of the Burnley guys, and omara and Anaconda,
otherwise there's simply too many people prepared to blow
themselves up for their teammates/friends. I've
chased down breaks for my teammates on many occasions
in races where it made sense to do so. This is basic race tactics.
If the race is a lower grade crit then breaks have a better chance,
as the bunches are less well organised and the riders less likely
to understand the tactical side of things, or to have the ability
to do something about it. The only way to fight this sort of thing
is to start your own teams up. I think this is a good thing for the
sport. If you want to be in escapes, long (really long!)
road races and hilly courses, or crosswinds are your
friend, not flat crits in carparks - although hotdogs are notorious
for shelling riders off the back, but that's a positioning issue
more than anything else. He who is at the back on a hotdog, is
soon to be eating hotdogs and spectating.

The only real chance for a break to get away on a flat, non-technical
course is if all the teams there have a member in the break and the
rest of the team members from those teams are blocking. Unless
there's some sandbaggers in the race who should be up a grade
anyway .... This doesn't apply in A grade though, where you get
some riders who really are a cut above the rest and who are strong
enough to escape, but they're bound for europe, or are doping (anyone
saw Rob Wilson at Glenvale in 2003? Hrm ....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/?id=AUS/2003/apr03/apr13carnegie

Carl Brewer said:

BrettS said:

Picking the right break is a matter of experience and luck. I'm with
you though, sticking around just to contest the bunch sprint is the
wimps way out.

Bollocks. Every race is a gamble, and if your talent is a
big surge of pace, smart bike positioning and rat cunning,
what makes that any less committed to the race than trying to escape a
sprint b getting into a smaller group and winning that sprint?
Winning (o even getting in position to contest
with any chance of winning) a bunch kick at the end of
a long road race is no soft option. If it's too easy,
you're in the wrong grade.

Hanging on for the bunch sprint is definitely smarter if that's where
your strength lies. Breakaways may not always be the smartest option,
but IMO it takes more guts to leave the 'comfort' of the bunch to go it
alone or with a smaller group.

--
BrettS

quote='BrettS'Carl Brewer said:

BrettS said:

Picking the right break is a matter of experience and luck. I'm with
you though, sticking around just to contest the bunch sprint is the
wimps way out.

Bollocks. Every race is a gamble, and if your talent is a
big surge of pace, smart bike positioning and rat cunning,
what makes that any less committed to the race than trying to escape a
sprint b getting into a smaller group and winning that sprint?
Winning (o even getting in position to contest
with any chance of winning) a bunch kick at the end of
a long road race is no soft option. If it's too easy,
you're in the wrong grade.

Hanging on for the bunch sprint is definitely smarter if that's where
your strength lies. Breakaways may not always be the smartest option,
but IMO it takes more guts to leave the 'comfort' of the bunch to go it
alone or with a smaller group.

--
BrettS[/QUOTE]

True enough, different strokes for different folks - I've had success in small groups rather than the big bunch sprint, so I'd rather try and get into a decent break. CB was right about breaks _not_ getting away on flat courses, which is why I like Oakville (Parra's home course): it has a long, though not too steep climb...

Ritch

Carl Brewer said:

The only real chance for a break to get away on a flat, non-technical
course is if all the teams there have a member in the break and the
rest of the team members from those teams are blocking. Unless
there's some sandbaggers in the race who should be up a grade
anyway .... This doesn't apply in A grade though, where you get
some riders who really are a cut above the rest and who are strong
enough to escape, but they're bound for europe, or are doping (anyone
saw Rob Wilson at Glenvale in 2003? Hrm ....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/?id=AUS/2003/apr03/apr13carnegie

oh look. that just happens to be the same week someone won in...
D_GRADE????

flyingdutch said:

Carl Brewer said:

The only real chance for a break to get away on a flat, non-technical
course is if all the teams there have a member in the break and the
rest of the team members from those teams are blocking. Unless
there's some sandbaggers in the race who should be up a grade
anyway .... This doesn't apply in A grade though, where you get
some riders who really are a cut above the rest and who are strong
enough to escape, but they're bound for europe, or are doping (anyone
saw Rob Wilson at Glenvale in 2003? Hrm ....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/?id=AUS/2003/apr03/apr13carnegie

oh look. that just happens to be the same week someone won in...
D_GRADE????

Ha! Gimme the CASH!!