RR: Heil Valley Ranch

Monique Y. Mudama said:

I finally got off my duff and went riding on a real live trail today.

(snip)

Nice RR...and now I'm craving a salad!

Bill "Hidden meaning" S.

On 2004-05-09, S o r n i penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

I finally got off my duff and went riding on a real live trail today.

(snip)

Nice RR...and now I'm craving a salad!

Bill "Hidden meaning" S.

I'm too dense to catch the hidden meaning =/ Care to enlighten?

--
monique

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-09, S o r n i penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

I finally got off my duff and went riding on a real live trail
today.

(snip)

Nice RR...and now I'm craving a salad!

Bill "Hidden meaning" S.

I'm too dense to catch the hidden meaning =/ Care to enlighten?

Hidden Valley Ranch = dressing, yes?

Bill "always a good sign when ya gots to 'splain 'em" S.

On 2004-05-09, S o r n i penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-09, S o r n i penned:

Quoted message said:

Nice RR...and now I'm craving a salad!

Bill "Hidden meaning" S.

I'm too dense to catch the hidden meaning =/ Care to enlighten?

Hidden Valley Ranch = dressing, yes?

Bill "always a good sign when ya gots to 'splain 'em" S.

Oh!

It all makes sense now ...

--
monique

"Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2004-05-09, S o r n i penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-09, S o r n i penned:
>
> Nice RR...and now I'm craving a salad!
>
> Bill "Hidden meaning" S.

I'm too dense to catch the hidden meaning =/ Care to enlighten?

Hidden Valley Ranch = dressing, yes?

Bill "always a good sign when ya gots to 'splain 'em" S.

Oh!

It all makes sense now ...

As intelligent as one may be, sometimes something just does not click. For
me, it's wimmen.

"Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I finally got off my duff and went riding on a real live trail today.

The three of us (friend, my hubby, and me) had a good time. It's about
three miles uphill, a loop of two and a half miles, and then back down.
We actually did the loop twice, once in each direction. The loop up top
definitely seemed rockier than the last time I was there -- I think any
dirt is thanks to trail builders, not nature, and it disappears pretty
quickly. I had my fastest downhill run ever, thanks to a relative
dearth of people and some ominous rumblings from the sky. Only one
really scary moment, suddenly finding my bike at a 45 degree angle to
the trail, but I managed to get things under control again.

The thing is, I'm starting to see why so many people have a dim view of
people on mountain bikes.

Before we got out of the parking lot, we saw two guys purposely skidding
for about ten feet before their car, sending gravel spraying.

As I was wending my way up a steep rocky spot, a guy came flying down
from above. Now, granted, I should never have been so absorbed in the
ground beneath my wheels that I didn't see him coming, but he didn't
even slow down as he shot past me, shouting something I couldn't make
out. As I caught up to my group, my friend informed me that the guy had
purposely gone off the path to skid several feet on pristine ground ...

Still going uphill, we stopped for some equestrians coming down. They
seemed quite gratified and surprised. I told them that I didn't know
how well their horses liked mountain bikes; one told me that, while this
horse has no such problem, she couldn't say the same about her other
one. Now, this just amazes me -- how stupid do you have to be to fail
to realize that, regardless of right of way, you don't want to startle
an extremely large animal in a narrow space? Are bikers really just
cruising past horses without giving them some space?

While we were resting up top, Eric noted that, of the 20 or so mtn
bikers we'd seen so far, five had done something lame while we saw them.
He said that we should make an effort to educate them. I offered that
it's hard to say anything constructive when they're screaming past you
at 20 mph. He suggested a stick through the spokes. Neither our friend
nor I were comfortable with that threat, which I know he'd never carry
out, anyway. Still, we need to find a way. Not only are these people
[censored] up my trails, but they're making people think that's what
mountain bikers are all about.

Sigh.

--
monique

Monique,

Nice RR. I have to deal with lots of horses on the trails around here
(Central MD) and I'm also amazed that people don't give ground to 2000+
pounds of stupid. I ALWAYS do and I've still had hooves flying past my face
in a tight single track when one kicked out for (what seemed to me) no
apparent reason.

The riders are always grateful for it.

When someone comes down a hill towards me at mach 2 I wait until they are
right next to me then yell right in their ear hole "SLOW THE HELL DOWN!!".
They usually wobble to a stop and stutter something along the lines of an
apology.

Marty "not much patience these days"

On 2004-05-09, Marty penned:

Quoted message said:

When someone comes down a hill towards me at mach 2 I wait until they
are right next to me then yell right in their ear hole "SLOW THE HELL
DOWN!!". They usually wobble to a stop and stutter something along
the lines of an apology.

Heh.

In this case, it was a "two wrongs" situation -- I definitely should
have been paying more attention.

I'll bear that tactic in mind for next time, though =)

--
monique

Monique Y. Mudama said:

I finally got off my duff and went riding on a real live trail today.

The three of us (friend, my hubby, and me) had a good time. It's about
three miles uphill, a loop of two and a half miles, and then back down.
We actually did the loop twice, once in each direction. The loop up top
definitely seemed rockier than the last time I was there -- I think any
dirt is thanks to trail builders, not nature, and it disappears pretty
quickly. I had my fastest downhill run ever, thanks to a relative
dearth of people and some ominous rumblings from the sky. Only one
really scary moment, suddenly finding my bike at a 45 degree angle to
the trail, but I managed to get things under control again.

The thing is, I'm starting to see why so many people have a dim view of
people on mountain bikes.

Before we got out of the parking lot, we saw two guys purposely skidding
for about ten feet before their car, sending gravel spraying.

As I was wending my way up a steep rocky spot, a guy came flying down
from above. Now, granted, I should never have been so absorbed in the
ground beneath my wheels that I didn't see him coming, but he didn't
even slow down as he shot past me, shouting something I couldn't make
out. As I caught up to my group, my friend informed me that the guy had
purposely gone off the path to skid several feet on pristine ground ...

Still going uphill, we stopped for some equestrians coming down. They
seemed quite gratified and surprised. I told them that I didn't know
how well their horses liked mountain bikes; one told me that, while this
horse has no such problem, she couldn't say the same about her other
one. Now, this just amazes me -- how stupid do you have to be to fail
to realize that, regardless of right of way, you don't want to startle
an extremely large animal in a narrow space? Are bikers really just
cruising past horses without giving them some space?

While we were resting up top, Eric noted that, of the 20 or so mtn
bikers we'd seen so far, five had done something lame while we saw them.
He said that we should make an effort to educate them. I offered that
it's hard to say anything constructive when they're screaming past you
at 20 mph. He suggested a stick through the spokes. Neither our friend
nor I were comfortable with that threat, which I know he'd never carry
out, anyway. Still, we need to find a way. Not only are these people
[censored] up my trails, but they're making people think that's what
mountain bikers are all about.

Sigh.

I chalk a lot of it to Front Range riding, so many people moving in from
other areas of the country, very few trails available, lots of rich
college kids from out of state.
I had a friend in town this weekend from Boulder, the first thing he
said to me was "you can actually go when the light turns green, not wait
for 5 cars to run it".
You probably had the frat boys from CU. Heil, while a nice little trail,
it not very interesting to most mountain bikers, just too short and
dull. And if you choose to ride to the trail head, you get to take your
chances with the nuts on 36.
Come on out to the otherside sometime, much more civilized.

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado
(remove ".nospam" to reply)

On 2004-05-10, Craig Brossman penned:

Quoted message said:

I chalk a lot of it to Front Range riding, so many people moving in
from other areas of the country, very few trails available, lots of
rich college kids from out of state. I had a friend in town this
weekend from Boulder, the first thing he said to me was "you can
actually go when the light turns green, not wait for 5 cars to run
it". You probably had the frat boys from CU. Heil, while a nice
little trail, it not very interesting to most mountain bikers, just
too short and dull. And if you choose to ride to the trail head, you
get to take your chances with the nuts on 36. Come on out to the
otherside sometime, much more civilized.

It may be short and dull for most mountain bikers, but for me it's about
perfect. I've cleared everything on it, but never all in the same run,
and I definitely huff and puff my way through the uphill and half of the
loop. (Yes, I know, many people will say "What's there to clear?"😉 We
can always add loops at the top for more of a workout, if desired.

Can you suggest trails of similar calibre that would be less infested?

Anyway, I'd rather find a way to educate/castrate the problem children
than to ignore them and hope they'll go away. Heil is a 10 minute drive
from my house, so I'd be really bummed if my riding privileges were
revoked there because others were being jackasses.

--
monique

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-10, Craig Brossman penned:

Quoted message said:

It may be short and dull for most mountain bikers, but for me it's about
perfect. I've cleared everything on it, but never all in the same run,
and I definitely huff and puff my way through the uphill and half of the
loop. (Yes, I know, many people will say "What's there to clear?"😉 We
can always add loops at the top for more of a workout, if desired.

Please don't take offense, there was none intended.

Quoted message said:

Can you suggest trails of similar calibre that would be less infested?

I can't, perhaps Betasso, but that has closure days, and probably a
similar frat crowd. Miller Rock (St. Varain) is a fairly easy trail, and
a beautiful area. Just about 15 mile further up the canyon past Jamestown.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I'd rather find a way to educate/castrate the problem children
than to ignore them and hope they'll go away. Heil is a 10 minute drive
from my house, so I'd be really bummed if my riding privileges were
revoked there because others were being jackasses.

That is a fair attitude, and you are correct, eventually, a few will
ruin it for many. Unfortunately when that happens, the frat boys will be
back in California or Texas or where ever they came from.

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado
(remove ".nospam" to reply)

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-09, Marty penned:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When someone comes down a hill towards me at mach 2 I wait until they
are right next to me then yell right in their ear hole "SLOW THE HELL
DOWN!!". They usually wobble to a stop and stutter something along
the lines of an apology.

Quoted message said:

Heh.
In this case, it was a "two wrongs" situation -- I definitely should
have been paying more attention.

Paying attention is good, but uphill riders have the right
of way over downhill riders, always. Not negotiable,
no excuse for his behavior.

On 2004-05-10, Craig Brossman penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-10, Craig Brossman penned:

Quoted message said:

It may be short and dull for most mountain bikers, but for me it's
about perfect. I've cleared everything on it, but never all in the
same run, and I definitely huff and puff my way through the uphill
and half of the loop. (Yes, I know, many people will say "What's
there to clear?"😉 We can always add loops at the top for more of a
workout, if desired.

Please don't take offense, there was none intended.

None taken. I'm just saying that the more interesting rides may be out
of my reach for a while.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can you suggest trails of similar calibre that would be less
infested?

I can't, perhaps Betasso, but that has closure days, and probably a
similar frat crowd. Miller Rock (St. Varain) is a fairly easy trail,
and a beautiful area. Just about 15 mile further up the canyon past
Jamestown.

I did Betasso several times last year; it's not bad. I've also done
Rabbit mountain. I think I like Rabbit and Heil better than Betasso,
which works out well, given the closures.

I've never heard of Miller Rock. I'll have to check it out.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I'd rather find a way to educate/castrate the problem
children than to ignore them and hope they'll go away. Heil is a 10
minute drive from my house, so I'd be really bummed if my riding
privileges were revoked there because others were being jackasses.

That is a fair attitude, and you are correct, eventually, a few will
ruin it for many. Unfortunately when that happens, the frat boys will
be back in California or Texas or where ever they came from.

This is going to sound rather weird coming from me, but I have to say
it. My husband's a frat boy, or at least, he was in college ... and
while I myself have used "frat boy" in just the context you're using
right now, I've realized since then that some frat boys aren't so bad.
Mine in particular has always been careful about trail damage, and when
I started riding he made damn sure (still does, actually) that I didn't
do anything to mess up the trails or to antagonize fellow trail users.

Anyway, when I see "frat boy" used in a derogatory way and don't speak
up about it, I feel like I'm complicit, so now I've said my piece and
I'm all done.

--
monique

On 2004-05-11, Benjamin Weiner penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-09, Marty penned:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When someone comes down a hill towards me at mach 2 I wait until
they are right next to me then yell right in their ear hole "SLOW
THE HELL DOWN!!". They usually wobble to a stop and stutter
something along the lines of an apology.

Quoted message said:

Heh. In this case, it was a "two wrongs" situation -- I definitely
should have been paying more attention.

Paying attention is good, but uphill riders have the right of way over
downhill riders, always. Not negotiable, no excuse for his behavior.

But there's no sign to tell you that -- unlike the prominent signs
everywhere to indicate that mountain bikers must give way to others,
even if I'm puffing my way up a steep grade with enough loose stuff that
I'll never get started again if I stop, and the person coming down the
hill is on a horse who's doing all the work for them.

--
monique

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-11, Benjamin Weiner penned:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Paying attention is good, but uphill riders have the right of way over
downhill riders, always. Not negotiable, no excuse for his behavior.

Quoted message said:

But there's no sign to tell you that --

There's never (well, hardly ever) a sign for it. It's
basic trail etiquette. That doesn't mean everyone knows it,
but they should. There's also, for example, no sign that tells
people to stop and ask somebody fixing a flat in the middle
of nowhere if they need anything. It's just something to
learn to do while getting into the sport (and basic
common sense).

Quoted message said:

unlike the prominent signs
everywhere to indicate that mountain bikers must give way to others,
even if I'm puffing my way up a steep grade with enough loose stuff that
I'll never get started again if I stop, and the person coming down the
hill is on a horse who's doing all the work for them.

Price we pay for trail access (in part because of idiots
like the guy who blew by you). One can always yield the
right of way, and courteous people often will, whether
it's biker/hiker, up/down, etc. Of course not everyone
on a trail bothers to be courteous.

Ben Weiner says:

Quoted message said:

One can always yield the
right of way, and courteous people often will, whether
it's biker/hiker, up/down, etc.

I have become known for yielding right-of-way to downhill folks, because, like
Fotherington-Thomas, I am just DYING for an excuse to stop on the uphills to
smell the pretty flowers. (That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it)

Steve

On 2004-05-12, Benjamin Weiner penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-11, Benjamin Weiner penned:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Paying attention is good, but uphill riders have the right of way
over downhill riders, always. Not negotiable, no excuse for his
behavior.

Quoted message said:

But there's no sign to tell you that --

There's never (well, hardly ever) a sign for it. It's basic trail
etiquette. That doesn't mean everyone knows it, but they should.
There's also, for example, no sign that tells people to stop and ask
somebody fixing a flat in the middle of nowhere if they need anything.
It's just something to learn to do while getting into the sport (and
basic common sense).

I guess I'm just looking for some way to explain people being jerks,
other than "people are jerks." I'd hate to think that people would
realize they're being rude and/or destructive and yet continue with
their behavior ...

On the practical side of things, you can educate the ignorant, but what
do you do about those who know better and just don't care?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unlike the prominent signs everywhere to indicate that mountain
bikers must give way to others, even if I'm puffing my way up a steep
grade with enough loose stuff that I'll never get started again if I
stop, and the person coming down the hill is on a horse who's doing
all the work for them.

Price we pay for trail access (in part because of idiots like the guy
who blew by you). One can always yield the right of way, and
courteous people often will, whether it's biker/hiker, up/down, etc.
Of course not everyone on a trail bothers to be courteous.

I usually yield, just because it's better to have two people stop on a
narrow track than to have neither do so. And, while I can't make up for
the extreme screwups of so many jerks, maybe at least when someone is
thinking about whether they want mountain bikes on the trails they use
or not, they'll remember me smiling politely and think, well, sure,
there are some bad apples, but there are some nice folks, too.

--
monique

On 2004-05-12, Stephen Baker penned:

Quoted message said:

Ben Weiner says:

Quoted message said:

One can always yield the right of way, and courteous people often
will, whether it's biker/hiker, up/down, etc.

I have become known for yielding right-of-way to downhill folks,
because, like Fotherington-Thomas, I am just DYING for an excuse to
stop on the uphills to smell the pretty flowers. (That's my excuse
and I'm sticking to it)

Oh, is that why you do it? I do it because I've turned purple and red
from lack of oxygen and no lack of exertion =P

--
monique

Monique says:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have become known for yielding right-of-way to downhill folks,
because, like Fotherington-Thomas, I am just DYING for an excuse to
stop on the uphills to smell the pretty flowers. (That's my excuse
and I'm sticking to it)

Oh, is that why you do it? I do it because I've turned purple and red
from lack of oxygen and no lack of exertion =P

Well, that's WHY I do it, too. But my _excuse_ is....

Steve

On 2004-05-12, Stephen Baker penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique says:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have become known for yielding right-of-way to downhill folks,
because, like Fotherington-Thomas, I am just DYING for an excuse to
stop on the uphills to smell the pretty flowers. (That's my excuse
and I'm sticking to it)

Oh, is that why you do it? I do it because I've turned purple and red
from lack of oxygen and no lack of exertion =P

Well, that's WHY I do it, too. But my _excuse_ is....

Steve

Yeah, yeah. I was feigning ignorance of your sarcasm ... some tones
don't come through too well in text alone.

--
monique