Roundabouts - how to take them?

In message <[email hidden]>, FM <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Being an inexperienced cyclist I looked to the trusty old highway code for guidelines on dealing
with roundabouts when cycling.

Quoted message said:

Thus I'm looking to gauge the general concensus on which of these is the safest method,

I would say try to take them as you would in a car as much as possible.

As you've found out, by sticking to the left people coming on to the roundabout tends to assume you
are going to exit at the next exit and cur across you. If you can't or don't want to get much speed
up then you may have no option but to stay to the left though.

On big roundabouts though it can be a little hairy at times, you need to try and get up to a decent
speed so as to keep you speed similar to the cars as much as possible. Be confident, assertive and
clear about your position and intentions. Generally, I find that as long as I get in the right
position at the right time I don't really have problems with the vehicles on the RB it's the ones
coming on to the RB that pose the most risk.

John Franklin's book Cyclecraft has lots of good advice on this sort of things and plenty of other
good stuff.

--
Chris French, Leeds

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:06:09 +0100 someone who may be "FM" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Being an inexperienced cyclist I looked to the trusty old highway code for guidelines on dealing
with roundabouts when cycling. How silly of me.

It's written by the road "safety" lobby, in other words the motoring lobby. As Chris recommended,
get hold of a copy of "Cyclecraft". This outlines the best road positioning in various situations
and why it is best.

The way to deal with roundabouts is to behave just like any other road user. Stick to the middle of
an appropriate lane, do not try and get out of the way of car drivers. This does mean being
assertive, but remember that you have every right to use the roads.

If you cause any slight delays to motorists by doing so remember that:

1) you are not required to make your life less safe to make others' lives slightly more convenient

2) any delays caused to others while you exercise your right to use the roads were caused by the
prat who designed the roundabout

3) roundabouts are dangerous for cyclists and any organisation that cares about cyclists would be
removing them

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

"David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

3) roundabouts are dangerous for cyclists and any organisation that cares about cyclists would be
removing them

They're not always a barrel of fun when driving a car. Unfortunately the road safety *Experts* have
decreed that they are safer than other junction types as when vehicles collide they do so more in a
converging manner than a T-bone type collision . Surely the point is missed that they shouldn't be
colliding?

To add to the other advice mine is to signal clearly once on the roundabout, especially if you're
not taking the first exit.

Pete

"FM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello all

Being an inexperienced cyclist I looked to the trusty old highway code for guidelines on dealing
with roundabouts when cycling. How silly of me. It basically said "you can stick to the left all
the way around, hoping that nobody flattens you as you cross their exit OR you can approach it
as any other vehicle would - the choice is yours". Thus I'm looking to gauge the general
concensus on which of these is the safest method, especially as I tried the "stick to the left"
method last time I was out and was of course very nearly flattened (didn't feel very safe at
all). Cheers for any

input.

Take small to medium sized ones as you would in a car -- take the lane, be visible and behave as if
you own the joint.

Really big ones -- where cars can be doing nightmare speeds -- can be difficult, but they are
more likely to have glass strewn, yob infested underpasses for the really foolhardy. Its a matter
of confidence and prudence. If in doubt -- you only get one life -- cowardice is sometimes the
best course.

T

"FM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

[how to take roundabouts]

What the others said: adopt the "primary riding position" as per Cyclecraft (for roundabouts this
means approximately in line with where you would be sitting if you were in the driving seat of a
car). Ride assertively but make sure you keep your wits about you - remember that 50% of fatal
accidents involving cyclists on roundabouts are due to drivers failing to yield to a cyclist who is
already circulating, so keep a close eye on the front cars at each entry to the roundabout and be
prepared to shout loudly and / or bail out. Do not be tempted to hug the outer edge of the
roundabout, and above all keep your line wherever possible (especially when there are no lane
markings on the roundabout itself).

One good technique is to make eye contact with the driver of a following vehicle who is indicating
to go the same way. Make sure (s)he looks friendly - you don't want them crawling up your back wheel
- and then take the roundabout in front of them, making use of the fact that while bikes are
invisible cars generally aren't.

Non-standard roundabout signals (i.e. pointing directly at the exit you are going to take) also work
surprisingly well.

I used to negotiate this roundabout
<streetmap.co.uknewmap.srfOpen ↗
&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf> every day on the way to work, including before the
M25 opened when it was one of the busiest bits of road in the country. I had one near-fatal crash,
and that was when there was almost nobody else there apart from me and Mrs Clueless (who failed to
yield to an already-circulating cyclist, in the usual way). Mostly, riding confidently and looking
as if you know what you are doing is sufficient.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ [currently out of service, will be back within 14 days, 5 days, 10
days, 2 days or one month depending on who you believe at BT]

I expected to see the 'Magic Roundabout' at Hemel when I clicked that link
streetmap.co.ukstreetmap.dllOpen ↗

pdv-systeme.de02R064.htmlOpen ↗
--
David Brown :o) kitemap.co.ukkitemap.co.ukOpen ↗

Looks like there's another nice one in swindon
netcyclo.co.ukswindonOpen ↗ magicrdb/magicrdb.htm
--
David Brown :o) kitemap.co.ukkitemap.co.ukOpen ↗

David Brown :o) said:

Looks like there's another nice one in swindon

netcyclo.co.ukswindonOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

magicrdb/magicrdb.htm

I met that one last Christmas. It was bad enough in a car...

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

"David Brown :o)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I expected to see the 'Magic Roundabout' at Hemel when I clicked that link

I've always found that quite straightforward - the cagers are sufficiantly confused that they seem
to take it slowly :-)

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗

David Brown :o) said:

I expected to see the 'Magic Roundabout' at Hemel when I clicked that link
streetmap.co.ukstreetmap.dllOpen ↗

pdv-systeme.de02R064.htmlOpen ↗

I've only cycled the "Magic Roundabout" a few times but I've never found it that much of a problem.
Provided you know where you are going and are assertive about it then you can generally keep the
cars behind you under control (and so only have to worry about the cars pulling out into you)

OTOH, if you aren't sure where you are going then I would suggest you decide which exit to take at
approach and then don't vary from that even if you realise part way around that it isn't the right
exit. Just do a U turn once you are off the roundabout and try again.

Regards,

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

tjw.hn.orgtjw.hn.orgOpen ↗ locofungus.btinternet.co.uklocofungus.btinternet.co.ukOpen ↗

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've always found that quite straightforward - the cagers are sufficiantly confused that they seem
to take it slowly :-)

Anyone who knows it is a such a massive advantage that you can whistle round
it.

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"FM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

[how to take roundabouts]

What the others said: adopt the "primary riding position" as per Cyclecraft (for roundabouts
this means approximately in line with where you would be sitting if you were in the driving seat
of a car).

Agree with this, except- I have a large/medium roundabout (the sort with 3 lane entries and two lane
exits at all four directions) to negotiate on my way home every night, where I turn right. Here I
find that rather than ride where the driver would be, it is better to stay just far enough away from
the central island on my right to prevent a car from slipping through on my right, but staying far
enough left in my lane to discourage undertaking.

To the OP. A little turn of speed will help a lot. Except in the case of very large roundabouts it
is pretty easy to sustain a speed more or less equal to that of the traffic using the roundabout for
the short duration of the manouver. If you can see the traffic on the rounabout as you arrive it is
usefull to try and time your arrival and entry for optimum speed.

As others have said, watch the entry lanes and be assertive. He who hesitates gets pulled out on.
But know what you are going to do when
Mr/s Bonehead pulls out. Being in the right doesn't make it hurt less.

Bloke on a bike (The Biker at the gates of dawn)

Thanks very much for all the helpful replies. I'll get me a copy of cyclecraft immediately.

'smee!

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"FM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

[how to take roundabouts]

What the others said: adopt the "primary riding position" as per

Cyclecraft

Quoted message said:

(for roundabouts this means approximately in line with where you would be sitting if you were in
the driving seat of a car). Ride assertively but make sure you keep your wits about you - remember
that 50% of fatal accidents involving cyclists on roundabouts are due to drivers failing to yield
to a cyclist who is already circulating, so keep a close eye on the front cars at each entry to
the roundabout and be prepared to shout loudly and / or bail out. Do not be tempted to hug the
outer edge of the roundabout, and above all keep your line wherever possible (especially

when

Quoted message said:

there are no lane markings on the roundabout itself).

One good technique is to make eye contact with the driver of a following vehicle who is indicating
to go the same way. Make sure (s)he looks friendly - you don't want them crawling up your back
wheel - and then take the roundabout in front of them, making use of the fact that while bikes

are

Quoted message said:

invisible cars generally aren't.

Non-standard roundabout signals (i.e. pointing directly at the exit you

are

Quoted message said:

going to take) also work surprisingly well.

I used to negotiate this roundabout

<streetmap.co.uknewmap.srfOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf> every day on the way to work, including before
the M25 opened when it was one of the busiest bits

of

Quoted message said:

road in the country. I had one near-fatal crash, and that was when there was almost nobody else
there apart from me and Mrs Clueless (who failed to yield to an already-circulating cyclist, in
the usual way). Mostly,

riding

Quoted message said:

confidently and looking as if you know what you are doing is sufficient.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ [currently out of service, will be back within 14 days, 5 days, 10
days, 2 days or one month depending on who you believe at BT]

"Tim Woodall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OTOH, if you aren't sure where you are going then I would suggest you decide which exit to take at
approach and then don't vary from that even

if

Quoted message said:

you realise part way around that it isn't the right exit. Just do a U turn once you are off the
roundabout and try again.

"Tim Woodall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OTOH, if you aren't sure where you are going then I would suggest you decide which exit to take at
approach and then don't vary from that even

if

Quoted message said:

you realise part way around that it isn't the right exit. Just do a U turn once you are off the
roundabout and try again.

If only some of my fellow cagers would heed this advice. Instead some of them, once they realise
they're in the wrong lane, just change lane without regard to anyone else, the Fosse Park
(Leicester) ballsup, sorry roundabout, is a classic. Bad enough when I'm in my car, doesn't bear
thinking about as a cyclist.

Pete

FM said:

Hello all

Being an inexperienced cyclist I looked to the trusty old highway code for guidelines on dealing
with roundabouts when cycling. How silly of me. It basically said "you can stick to the left all
the way around, hoping that nobody flattens you as you cross their exit OR you can approach it as
any other vehicle would - the choice is yours". Thus I'm looking to gauge the general concensus on
which of these is the safest method, especially as I tried the "stick to the left" method last
time I was out and was of course very nearly flattened (didn't feel very safe at all). Cheers for
any input.

The very *safest* way to negotiate a roundabout is to get off, walk to the crossing/underpass/bridge
(there will usually be something like this for pedestrians in urban areas), and use that.
Roundabouts in rural areas usually have less traffic, in my experience, so it's possible to wait for
an opportunity and cross (if necessary by instalments) on foot.

But I don't always do that, and when I cycle round one I do what everyone else has said - take it
as if I was a car. The main danger is the motroist going too fast round the roundabout - not much
you can do about that. The main nuisance is the motorist who won't wait behind a bike in the
centre lane, but takes the inside lane when he's leaving on the second exit - that can be quite
nasty, because it prevents you from crossing over onto the correct lane on the roundabout to exit
it properly.

Pete Barrett

I actually like UK roundabouts, esp. the larger ones! I just engage warp speed and stay a bit left
of where I would be in a car. Only been cut of once, by a tanker truck (law of gross tonnage, I
guess...). I do have a lowracer, so I'm usually going (nearly) at fast as the cars. I used the same
strategy on a mini roundabout (more a glorified crossing) once, and almost got flattened by a van
hurtling straight across, so now I'm a bit more carefull when aproaching the smaller ones! Having a
mirror and reallly good brakes is essential in these circumstances, I believe.

Mark van Gorkom.

P.S.: over here, roundabouts usually have a seperate cycle lane going round the outside; slower and
less safe IMHO.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:42:42 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be "Peter B" <[email hidden]>
wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3) roundabouts are dangerous for cyclists and any organisation that cares about cyclists would be
removing them

They're not always a barrel of fun when driving a car.

But then one is surrounded by at least some metal.

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately the road safety *Experts* have decreed that they are safer than other junction types

I think it's more to do with the fantasies of road builders. Roundabouts work well when there is a
low volume of traffic, it enters from all the entrances reasonably equally and all vehicles have
similar performance. None of these tend to be the case in practice.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

FM said:

Hello all

Being an inexperienced cyclist I looked to the trusty old highway code for guidelines on dealing
with roundabouts when cycling. How silly of me. It basically said "you can stick to the left all
the way around, hoping that nobody flattens you as you cross their exit OR you can approach it as
any other vehicle would - the choice is yours". Thus I'm looking to gauge the general concensus on
which of these is the safest method, especially as I tried the "stick to the left" method last
time I was out and was of course very nearly flattened (didn't feel very safe at all). Cheers for
any input.

'smee

I found this page very useful in an argument with another car driver the other day
highwaycode.gov.uk17.shtmlOpen ↗

All about roundabouts

Cheers Michael

--
Michael Kent

There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary,... and those that
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