Roundabout Woes

Steve Rumsby said:

Where *is* that? Just so I know to avoid it...

Steve.

Looks like the magic roundabout in that charming town of
Swindon, half price drinks at Ritzys before 9. Although I
believe there are others.

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:01:54 GMT someone who may be Caher
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

It’s far safer to stay on the outside all the way around
signalling as I go rather than weaving in and out.

Really. I take it you have not read "Cyclecraft".

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number
F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK
government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Zog The Undeniable:

Quoted message said:

Not here!

home.san.rr.comrndabout.jpgOpen ↗

Sure, that's mad, Ted!

d.

Caher said:

I was already on the roundabout. He came from the south
side I had already got on from the east. I was signalling
to come off at the south. He wanted to get off at the west.
I was travelling past the west on the way to the south. He
argued that I should have made my way into the busy inside
then try to get back out onto the outside to turn off. This
would be stupid. It’s far safer to stay on the outside all
the way around signalling as I go rather than weaving in
and out. If I was driving I do not try to overtake someone
already on the roundabout.

If I read this correctly neither of you should have met
since both of you were taking the first available exit.

James

"Caher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all, I've recently moved from the world of off-road
(in my case

on

Quoted message said:

path) to a road bike, which is a revelation for the speed
I can get around town and to work. However I've now come
into conflict with

the

Quoted message said:

motorist. This morning whilst on my way to work I was
in a dual

lane

Quoted message said:

road and on my approach to a roundabout I stayed in
the outside

lane

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whilst turning to the right - or the second exit. A
motorist came

around

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suddenly from the oncoming direction and tried to hoot his
way into

the

Quoted message said:

first exit I was cycling past. He game me a mouthful of
abuse. I

managed

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to catch him up for further clarification. Have I
forgotten the

Highway

Quoted message said:

Code for cyclists, was he being obnoxious or was I
actually cycling correctly. Many thanks Caher.

There are two separate issues here: roundabouts, and dealing
with honking motorists.

The roundabout rules for cyclists in the Highway Code are
quite amusing really.

Rule 61 says that the correct procedure for roundabouts is
described in rules 160-166. This is a strong hint that what
they go on to say in rule 62 is NOT the correct procedure.

Rule 62 says "You may feel safer either keeping to the left
on the roundabout, or dismounting and walking..."

Note that is does NOT say that you WILL be safer, and the
previous rule has strongly implied that it is not a "correct
procedure".

There really is no alternative but to get right out in the
middle, staying well away from the outside edge unless you
are leaving at the very first exit.

Like sking, surfing, or whatever, it feels good if you can
do this well, but there is no alternative to practice. Start
on little mini roundabouts with light traffic, and work up
gradually to the real monsters on busy rural trunk roads. At
least you are on a roundabout for only a short time.

There's a good book on riding among other traffic,
"Cyclecraft" by John Franklin. I would say it's worth
buying, not just reading.

As for honking and hooting, about all you can do is ignore
it. Hoots might be somebody trying to be helpful - once,
with me, it was a motorist trying to tell my that my
briefcase was about to fall off my back rack. It's good to
learn a bit of animal psychology, for example when to look
at motorists, and when not to, but that's not among the
basics that you have to learn immediately.

Jeremy Parker

"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted message said:

Richard said:

The laning is somewhat immaterial - you were in the
correct lane to turn right (unless there were bizarre
local road markings stating otherwise).

Clarification: I assumed that "outside" meant "right-hand"
as applied to a two-lane road, but reading Mssr Martin's
nigh-simultaneous reply, I realise it could also mean "left-
hand" :-) when applied to a roundabout.

On a dual carriageway where the main road goes right and
other exits are minor roads (even on a four arm RB) it is
quite reasonable to use the left hand lane.

Similarly, it can be acceptable to turn left from the right
hand lane. These are much less common though as white paint
on the approach increasingly rules it out. I know a couple
in Basingstoke that still have it.

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:40c07c6f.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

home.san.rr.comrndabout.jpgOpen ↗

Someone must have been having a laff when they
designed this one!

Adrian Boliston [email hidden] opined the
following...

Quoted message said:

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:40c07c6f.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

home.san.rr.comrndabout.jpgOpen ↗

Someone must have been having a laff when they designed
this one!

Actually, this style of roundabout can be remarkably
effective. A similar design (The Magic Roundabout in
Swindon) was demonstrated to work, by parking a bus in the
middle and blocking all entrances until a substantial build-
up of traffic had occurred. The traffic was then released
and traffic flow was observed from the bus. It was generally
considered a success.

Jon

In article <[email hidden]>,

Steve Rumsby said:

Quoted message said:

home.san.rr.comrndabout.jpgOpen ↗

I use it quite a lot. Pick an exit and pray.

Where *is* that? Just so I know to avoid it...

Two known examples are Swindon and Hemel Hempstead.

I've been round both on a bike, but not recently. When I
worked in Swindon, my commuting route didn't take me that
way.

--
Nick Kew

Steve Rumsby said:

Where *is* that? Just so I know to avoid it...

That particular one is The Magic Roundabout in Swindon, just
outside Swindon Town FC.

"Jeremy Parker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

As for honking and hooting, about all you can do is ignore
it. Hoots might be somebody trying to be helpful - once,
with me, it was a motorist trying to tell my that my
briefcase was about to fall off my back rack. It's good to
learn a bit of animal psychology, for example when to look
at motorists, and when not to, but that's not among the
basics that you have to learn immediately.

Generally the problem is that the honkers and shouters are
usually in the wrong, IME. I had one last night who called
me a "c**t" for approaching a mini roundabout in the rh
lane, when the LH lane was marked as left turn only. He
powered into the LH lane, went straight on at speed, and
stopped 50 yards down the road behind a car waiting at a
red light.

Earlier in the same journey I was going round a 4 lane
roundabout in the lane marked for my direction. A vehicle
came from behind. I was in lane 2 of 4. The correct lane for
their direction was either 3 or 4 of 4. They approached from
behind, then passed on my left, approximately half in lane 1
and half in lane 2, then cut across lane 2 to move into lane
3 which they then continued around the rest of the
roundabout in.

Caher said:

It’s far safer to stay on the outside all the way around
signalling as I go rather than weaving in and out.

No. It isn't. Ride the way you would drive, then we'll all
know what to expect.

Try reading Cyclecraft, and ignoring all those bloody stupid
cycle lanes.

Quoted message said:

If I was driving I do not try to overtake someone already
on the roundabout.

Indeed, though overtaking on the right should not cause
a problem.
--

Cheers,

Al

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 12:01:35 +0100 someone who may be "Jeremy Parker"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

The roundabout rules for cyclists in the Highway Code are
quite amusing really. [snip]

Note that is does NOT say that you WILL be safer, and the
previous rule has strongly implied that it is not a
"correct procedure".

They are trying to cover themselves. The Highway Code is
written by motorists and IIRC several editions ago used to
advise cyclists to go round the outside of a roundabout. Not
being able to admit they were wrong they are changing it
slowly in the hope nobody will notice.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number
F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK
government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Just for clarification. I entered the roundabout from the east. The driver entered from the NORTH. I was getting off at the North. He was exiting from to the west.

It’s just indicative of the attitude in this country to Cyclists that I never noticed whist being an off-roader!

On 4/6/04 11:06 am, in article [email hidden], "Colin

Blackburn said:

Outside is standard usage meaning the RH lane of a dual.

And the LH lane when there are two lanes going around a
roundabout. Hence the request for clarification.

..d

David Martin said:

On 4/6/04 11:06 am, in article
[email hidden], "Colin Blackburn"

Quoted message said:

Outside is standard usage meaning the RH lane of a dual.

And the LH lane when there are two lanes going around a
roundabout. Hence the request for clarification.

Yes, and the OP stated they stayed in the outside lane on
their "approach" to the roundabout. That seemed very clear
to me, when I posted this last Thursday, but subsequent
posts suggest many other possibilities including the
direction of rotation.

Colin

Caher said:

Just for clarification. I entered the roundabout from the
east. The driver entered from the NORTH. I was getting off
at the North. He was exiting from to the west.

Now it makes sense!

James

On 8/6/04 12:25 pm, in article [email hidden], "Colin

Blackburn said:

David Martin said:

On 4/6/04 11:06 am, in article
[email hidden], "Colin Blackburn"

Quoted message said:

Outside is standard usage meaning the RH lane of a dual.

And the LH lane when there are two lanes going around a
roundabout. Hence the request for clarification.

Yes, and the OP stated they stayed in the outside lane on
their "approach" to the roundabout. That seemed very clear
to me, when I posted this last Thursday, but subsequent
posts suggest many other possibilities including the
direction of rotation.

Outside is not the term I would normally use. Offside and
nearside would be much clearer.

..d