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Rohloff vs derailleur

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UK and Europe
Published
1 July 2005
Last activity
2 July 2005
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Taka
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  1. Hello,

    I am about to order a frame for my new project and wondered what you
    thought about Rohloff speedhubs?
    I need to decide now I think because I have to choose between vertical
    or horizontal dropouts.

    I like the idea of lesser maintenance and having just 1 set of gears
    you can change at any time.

    I have seen Thorn's advertisements on these hubs and they think that
    they compare equally to normal cassette/derailleur systems in terms of
    weight.

    My idea is to put it on a mountainbike instead of an XTR -Ti cassette,
    XTR non-rapidrise rear mech, XTR front mech, Middleburn DUO crankset,
    etc.

    My only dislike is having the weight distribution so far back compared
    to a standard setup.

    Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with Rohloffs?

    Thanks!
    Taka

  2. Taka said:

    I have seen Thorn's advertisements on these hubs and they think that
    they compare equally to normal cassette/derailleur systems in terms of
    weight.

    Up to a point... the Rohloff is heavier than a derailleur set, at least
    anything like as serious as you'd get if you're in Rohloff financial
    territory. But that's not to say the amount of weight is necessarily
    problematical.

    Quoted message said:

    My idea is to put it on a mountainbike instead of an XTR -Ti cassette,
    XTR non-rapidrise rear mech, XTR front mech, Middleburn DUO crankset,
    etc.

    My only dislike is having the weight distribution so far back compared
    to a standard setup.

    Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with Rohloffs?

    Thoughts are mainly on the lines of "I want one", experience is limited
    to a few shortish test rides. But note that it was originally developed
    with muddy MTBing specifically in mind.
    Some designs have the Rohloff mounted close to the crank and then a
    simple chain out to the back, so that's an even better weight
    distribution than a derailleur setup. Usually at the expense of more
    weight overall though, IIRC.

    Is the weight distribution more of a problem than missing changes
    because your gearing is covered in goop? Speaking as someone who
    usually rides XC with panniers on his MTB, I know I'd sooner have
    guaranteed clean changes than save a bit more weight at the rear hub,
    but I'm not exactly an avid technical MTBer.

    Note that there are Rohloff specific frames available, for example
    http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/html/rotor_frames.html

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  3. in message <[email hidden]>, Taka <> (''😉

    Quoted message said:

    Hello,

    I am about to order a frame for my new project and wondered what you
    thought about Rohloff speedhubs?
    I need to decide now I think because I have to choose between vertical
    or horizontal dropouts.

    If I could afford one I'd have one.

    Quoted message said:

    My idea is to put it on a mountainbike instead of an XTR -Ti cassette,
    XTR non-rapidrise rear mech, XTR front mech, Middleburn DUO crankset,
    etc.

    My only dislike is having the weight distribution so far back compared
    to a standard setup.

    You need to look at the Nicolai Nucleon TFR, and other GBoxx style
    bikes. The Rohloff sits at the suspension pivot, just above the bottom
    bracket, putting the weight in the centre of the frame. This, in my
    opinion, has to be the future of mountain bike.
    <URL:http://www.nicolai.net/order/nucleon-tfr.html>

    Warning! they ain't cheap. £3,500 for frame, rear suspension, rohloff,
    and rear hub. Not much change from £4,500 built up.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; All in all you're just another nick in the ball
    -- Think Droid

  4. Quoted message said:

    You need to look at the Nicolai Nucleon TFR,

    bugger... another look at the Nicolai..... how can I be so grown up and
    STILL WANT ONE SO BADLY IT HURTS!!!!!! (nearly.)

    In my defense, I would suggest it stems from an appreciation of the
    excellent engineering that the setup represents, but really... it just
    looks sooooooo cooooooooool.

    £4.5k eh? Hmm....

    grr,

    Tony B

  5. in message <[email hidden]>, Tony B

    (') said:
    Quoted message said:

    You need to look at the Nicolai Nucleon TFR,

    bugger... another look at the Nicolai..... how can I be so grown up
    and STILL WANT ONE SO BADLY IT HURTS!!!!!! (nearly.)

    You are not alone...

    Quoted message said:

    In my defense, I would suggest it stems from an appreciation of the
    excellent engineering that the setup represents, but really... it just
    looks sooooooo cooooooooool.

    You are /not/ alone!

    Quoted message said:


    £4.5k eh? Hmm....

    I think I'll have mine built up with the SL tubing option and a USE SUB
    fork, please - after all, what's another £700?

    <URL:http://www.use1.com/antidive/antidive.htm>

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
    .::;===r==\
    / /___||___\____
    //==\- ||- | /__\( MS Windows IS an operating environment.
    //____\__||___|_// \|: C++ IS an object oriented programming language.
    \__/ ~~~~~~~~~ \__/ Citroen 2cv6 IS a four door family saloon.

  6. Tony B said:

    £4.5k eh? Hmm....

    How much would a new car cost?

    How much would a new car pollute?

    How healthy would a new car keep you?

    How long would a new car last?

  7. Taka said:

    Hello,

    I am about to order a frame for my new project and wondered what you
    thought about Rohloff speedhubs?
    I need to decide now I think because I have to choose between vertical
    or horizontal dropouts.

    I like the idea of lesser maintenance and having just 1 set of gears
    you can change at any time.

    I have seen Thorn's advertisements on these hubs and they think that
    they compare equally to normal cassette/derailleur systems in terms of
    weight.

    My idea is to put it on a mountainbike instead of an XTR -Ti cassette,
    XTR non-rapidrise rear mech, XTR front mech, Middleburn DUO crankset,
    etc.

    My only dislike is having the weight distribution so far back compared
    to a standard setup.

    Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with Rohloffs?

    Excellent. I bought one at Easter for a tourer. Minor irritation
    changing from 8th to 7th, and there's an annoying noise in 7th gear,
    but you just have to remember that it's the sound of precision
    engineering and you can live with it. Cycling in 11th gear is a
    delight, and you need to calculate your chainring and sprocket size so
    11th is your usual gear as it's direct drive.

    I've had no problem with the weight at the rear - but I do have a bar
    bag and front hub dynamo.

  8. Simon Brooke said:

    in message <[email hidden]>, Taka <> (''😉

    Quoted message said:

    Hello,

    I am about to order a frame for my new project and wondered what you
    thought about Rohloff speedhubs?
    I need to decide now I think because I have to choose between vertical
    or horizontal dropouts.

    If I could afford one I'd have one.

    Quoted message said:

    My idea is to put it on a mountainbike instead of an XTR -Ti cassette,
    XTR non-rapidrise rear mech, XTR front mech, Middleburn DUO crankset,
    etc.

    My only dislike is having the weight distribution so far back compared
    to a standard setup.

    You need to look at the Nicolai Nucleon TFR, and other GBoxx style
    bikes. The Rohloff sits at the suspension pivot, just above the bottom
    bracket, putting the weight in the centre of the frame. This, in my
    opinion, has to be the future of mountain bike.
    <URL:http://www.nicolai.net/order/nucleon-tfr.html>

    I have had a look at these but I want a titanium frame!
    Also it's going to be an (as light as possible) XC bike with
    higher-than-normal gearing.
    Most of the Nicolais seem to be DH or FR bikes.

    Quoted message said:


    Warning! they ain't cheap. £3,500 for frame, rear suspension, rohloff,
    and rear hub. Not much change from £4,500 built up.

  9. At Fri, 01 Jul 2005 19:06:02 +0100, message
    <[email hidden]> was posted by Tilly
    <[email hidden]>, including some, all or none of the
    following:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    £4.5k eh? Hmm....


    How much would a new car cost?
    How much would a new car pollute?
    How healthy would a new car keep you?
    How long would a new car last?

    But as the apprentices have rightly pointed out, for that money we
    could have KMXs all round and change for a shed to keep them in :-)

    Guy
    --
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    "To every complex problem there is a solution which is
    simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

  10. Peter Clinch said:
    Taka said:

    I have seen Thorn's advertisements on these hubs and they think that
    they compare equally to normal cassette/derailleur systems in terms of
    weight.

    Up to a point... the Rohloff is heavier than a derailleur set, at least
    anything like as serious as you'd get if you're in Rohloff financial
    territory. But that's not to say the amount of weight is necessarily
    problematical.

    Quoted message said:

    My idea is to put it on a mountainbike instead of an XTR -Ti cassette,
    XTR non-rapidrise rear mech, XTR front mech, Middleburn DUO crankset,
    etc.

    My only dislike is having the weight distribution so far back compared
    to a standard setup.

    Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with Rohloffs?

    Thoughts are mainly on the lines of "I want one", experience is limited
    to a few shortish test rides. But note that it was originally developed
    with muddy MTBing specifically in mind.

    Muddy MTBing is something my bike will have to do!
    At the moment I ride a standard 2001 Specialised Rockhopper with rim
    brakes.
    My winter mud experience has forced me to consider disc brakes because
    it sticks to the rims and arches every 20m I ride!

    Quoted message said:

    Some designs have the Rohloff mounted close to the crank and then a
    simple chain out to the back, so that's an even better weight
    distribution than a derailleur setup. Usually at the expense of more
    weight overall though, IIRC.

    Is the weight distribution more of a problem than missing changes
    because your gearing is covered in goop? Speaking as someone who
    usually rides XC with panniers on his MTB, I know I'd sooner have
    guaranteed clean changes than save a bit more weight at the rear hub,
    but I'm not exactly an avid technical MTBer.

    The derailleurs on my current MTB are fairly standard Deores and not
    particularly great at gear changes although they do their job.
    Would an XT or XTR be that much better do you think?

    Being able to change gears going uphill (or while stopped) would also
    be very convenient.

    Quoted message said:


    Note that there are Rohloff specific frames available, for example
    http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/html/rotor_frames.html

    Pete.

  11. Simon Brooke said:

    in message <[email hidden]>, Tony B

    (') said:
    Quoted message said:

    You need to look at the Nicolai Nucleon TFR,

    bugger... another look at the Nicolai..... how can I be so grown up
    and STILL WANT ONE SO BADLY IT HURTS!!!!!! (nearly.)

    You are not alone...

    Quoted message said:

    In my defense, I would suggest it stems from an appreciation of the
    excellent engineering that the setup represents, but really... it just
    looks sooooooo cooooooooool.

    You are /not/ alone!

    Quoted message said:


    £4.5k eh? Hmm....

    I think I'll have mine built up with the SL tubing option and a USE SUB
    fork, please - after all, what's another £700?

    I considered asking to have the headtube built to take a cannondale
    lefty or a USE SUB fork. Ultimately I decided to go for a standard
    fork since maintenance and parts would be easier to come by.
    I'm also considering trying PACE RC31s for long distance rides,
    touring France, Spain, etc (some day!).

    This bike will cost a lot but I decided to invest in my future.
    I can no longer run because of back problems and I'm not too keen on
    swimming in pools. I like being outdoors.
    I need something to keep me healthy + fit and need something to
    motivate me!

    I thought about getting a roadbike but I don't like the skinny tyres
    or drop bars, though I know you can also get straight bars. I feel
    more at home on a mountainbike.

    Quoted message said:


    <URL:http://www.use1.com/antidive/antidive.htm>

  12. On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 19:14:13 +0100, Tilly <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Taka said:

    Hello,

    I am about to order a frame for my new project and wondered what you
    thought about Rohloff speedhubs?
    I need to decide now I think because I have to choose between vertical
    or horizontal dropouts.

    I like the idea of lesser maintenance and having just 1 set of gears
    you can change at any time.

    I have seen Thorn's advertisements on these hubs and they think that
    they compare equally to normal cassette/derailleur systems in terms of
    weight.

    My idea is to put it on a mountainbike instead of an XTR -Ti cassette,
    XTR non-rapidrise rear mech, XTR front mech, Middleburn DUO crankset,
    etc.

    My only dislike is having the weight distribution so far back compared
    to a standard setup.

    Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with Rohloffs?

    Excellent. I bought one at Easter for a tourer. Minor irritation
    changing from 8th to 7th, and there's an annoying noise in 7th gear,
    but you just have to remember that it's the sound of precision
    engineering and you can live with it. Cycling in 11th gear is a
    delight, and you need to calculate your chainring and sprocket size so
    11th is your usual gear as it's direct drive.

    I've had no problem with the weight at the rear - but I do have a bar
    bag and front hub dynamo.

    Hi Tilly,

    What is direct drive?
    I've heard about the noises the hub makes but I don't mind too much.

  13. Taka said:

    On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 19:14:13 +0100, Tilly <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    with Rohloffs?

    Excellent. I bought one at Easter for a tourer. Minor irritation
    changing from 8th to 7th, and there's an annoying noise in 7th gear,
    but you just have to remember that it's the sound of precision
    engineering and you can live with it. Cycling in 11th gear is a
    delight, and you need to calculate your chainring and sprocket size
    so 11th is your usual gear as it's direct drive.

    Quoted message said:

    What is direct drive?

    Its the one ratio in a hub system where the various internal gears don't do
    anything. The drive is then just the chain ring to the sprocket on the back.
    This is (usually) the smoothest and most effecient gear in a hub system,
    regardless of whether its a 3-speed Sturmey Archer or a 14-speed Rohloff.

    Recommend reading the various documents on the SJS Cycles website about
    Rohloffs.

    Quoted message said:

    I've heard about the noises the hub makes but I don't mind too much.

    - Nigel

    --
    Nigel Cliffe,
    Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

  14. Taka said:

    What is direct drive?

    The gear system does nothing, the wheel rotates with the same
    frequency as the rear sprocket.

    Quoted message said:

    I've heard about the noises the hub makes but I don't mind too much.

    I strongly advise a test ride. You'll love it.

  15. Simon Brooke said:

    I think I'll have mine built up with the SL tubing option and a USE SUB
    fork, please - after all, what's another £700?

    <URL:http://www.use1.com/antidive/antidive.htm>

    Pah. I mock your £4.5! 9.6kg of ultra-lite Monster (Resist... Monster
    Monster Monster! Damn. Sorry), will cost you about three times that at
    the minute, and around double if they went into "production".

    Jon

  16. in message <[email hidden]>, Taka <> (''😉

    Quoted message said:
    Simon Brooke said:

    in message <[email hidden]>, Tony B

    (') said:

    > You need to look at the Nicolai Nucleon TFR,

    bugger... another look at the Nicolai..... how can I be so grown up
    and STILL WANT ONE SO BADLY IT HURTS!!!!!! (nearly.)

    You are not alone...

    Quoted message said:

    In my defense, I would suggest it stems from an appreciation of the
    excellent engineering that the setup represents, but really... it
    just looks sooooooo cooooooooool.

    You are /not/ alone!

    Quoted message said:


    £4.5k eh? Hmm....

    I think I'll have mine built up with the SL tubing option and a USE
    SUB fork, please - after all, what's another £700?

    I considered asking to have the headtube built to take a cannondale
    lefty or a USE SUB fork. Ultimately I decided to go for a standard
    fork since maintenance and parts would be easier to come by.
    I'm also considering trying PACE RC31s for long distance rides,
    touring France, Spain, etc (some day!).

    Seriously, my far-and-away favourite bike is my Cannondale Jekyll,
    recently upgraded from a steel-sprung to an air-sprung Lefty. The bike
    is wonderful, and I love it to bits. My review of it is here:

    <URL:http://www.jasmine.org.uk/dogfood/story/article_10.html>

    It's been intensively worked on in the two years since I bought it. The
    Shimano XT transmission has been junked in favour of SRAM 9.0; the
    Lefty has been upgraded, as above; the saddle, seatpost, pedals and
    tyres have all been changed; the handlebars have been rearranged half a
    dozen times; bar-ends have been fitted; most recently the front Hayes
    disk has been replaced with a Hope Mini. In the next few weeks the
    saddle will change again; the remote rear lockout lever, which got
    removed quite early in my relationship with the bike, will probably go
    back on; and I shall experiment with a totally different tyre set.

    Oh - and the bar-bag may go permanently, which will be a major change to
    the way I've always set up my bikes. As I'm riding harder it's becoming
    more and more of a nuisance.

    Most of the things which have changed have changed not because they were
    worn out but because I'm tuning and customising the bike to work
    for /me/, and because my own riding is changing - and becoming far more
    adventurous - as a result of my relationship with this bike. I ride
    both further and over more challenging ground.

    And my conclusion after all that? Well, germane to you, the SRAM
    transmission is definitely both more reliable and more precise than the
    Shimano, but deraileur gearing is still a significant weakness in a
    bike used hard in challenging conditions.

    When I buy another mountain bike, it will certainly have a monoblade
    front end. I'm completely sold on the concept that, weight for weight,
    one leg is stiffer than two, and stiffness for stiffness, one leg is
    lighter. You're also automatically immune from disk eject and repairing
    or replacing tubes is (marginally) quicker.

    It will also certainly have an enclosed gearbox (Rohloff or similar).
    Exposing the most delicate and critical components of the transmission
    to the environment simply does not make sense.

    Ideally it will have a monoblade backend, too, with the chain running
    fully enclosed inside the swing arm, and cartridge hubs so that the
    wheels are interchangeable. But thus far no mountain bike manufacturer
    is yet that adventurous, and I don't have either the skills or the
    money to prototype it.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
    ;; This email may contain confidential or otherwise privileged
    ;; information, though, quite frankly, if you're not the intended
    ;; recipient and you've got nothing better to do than read other
    ;; folks' emails then I'm glad to have brightened up your sad little
    ;; life a tiny bit.

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