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Roche Says Lance is Finished

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2 July 2004
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David Off
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  1. news.bbc.co.uk3858759.stm

    Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win six
    Tours de France, according to 1987 winner Stephen Roche.
    Armstrong is the race favourite in 2004, but Irishman Roche
    believes 1997 Tour winner Jan Ullrich will halt the Texan's
    historic bid.

    "I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche told
    BBC Sport.

    "He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and
    tactically more astute, but I don't believe he's the same
    rider physically anymore."

    He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich first, Tyler
    Hamilton second and Armstrong third." Armstrong does not
    appear to be at his best going into the 2004 race.

    He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the Dauphine
    Libere and looked as though he was struggling at crucial
    times. In contrast, Ullrich appears to be in good shape,
    close to the sort of form that won him the race seven
    years ago.

    And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after his
    runner-up spot 12 months ago. "People have been talking
    about him carrying too much weight and not looking as sharp
    in races as before, but that's nonsense," said Roche.

    "He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the Tour
    of Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form at
    exactly the right time."

    Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.

    Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time
    champions Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault
    and Miguel Indurain - he lacked the invincibility of
    previous seasons.

    He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on the
    final ascent on stage 15, and was repeatedly attacked by his
    rivals. "Last year, the cracks started to show," said Roche.
    "Those cracks are only going to get wider."

  2. Lance Armstrong's Bid For Coveted Sixth Tour de France
    Foiled By Joe King, Dullard Trite, and Richard Longwood
    Special to ESPN, MTV, MIT, and CYCLINGNEWS.COM

    PARIS, FRANCE -- Heading into the final stages of the 2004
    Tour de France, Lance Armstrong looked destined to be in
    clear and eternal glory. Another victory and he would create
    a new cycling pantheon. But long shot Tyler Hamilton was
    coming on steadily, and suddenly Lance began to look weary.
    There would be no six-time Tour de France champion.

    Even when he still was in front by minutes, Johan Bruyneel,
    Lance Armstrong's coach, knew he was in trouble. "When I
    looked back and saw the way Tyler Hamilton was coming at us,
    yeah, I thought we were going to get beat," Bruyneel said.

    Tyler Hamilton, coached by Urs Freuler, had Lance Armstrong
    in his sights, and 7 stages from the last stage, Urs
    Freuler's stallion went by the five time Tour de France
    champion en route to a commanding victory before a crowd of
    millions, the largest ever to see a sporting event in
    France. For the first time in five years, Lance Armstrong
    didn't win.

    Freuler and the other Phonak managers Alvaro Pino, Jacques
    Michaud, and René Savary and Tyler's parents had mixed
    emotions after last year's situation when Tyler emerged from
    obscurity last July to become Massachusetts' favorite son
    and an international celebrity.

    As Tyler Hamilton and Lance Armstrong galloped out, Freuler
    got on Bruyneel' s radio frequency and told him, "Better
    luck next time jackass! You were a fool for letting your
    pretty boy do all those OLN segments and all those other car
    commercials." It surprised Bruyneel, who undoubtedly was in
    an agitated state.

    "He said he was sorry," Bruyneel said. "I said, 'What are
    you going to do? That's bike racing.'"

    Freuler was thrilled over finally beating his jinx race and
    completing his personal goal. Besides winning 15 stages of
    the Giro d'Italia, 3 stages of the Tour de France, 5 stages
    of the Tour de Romandie, 9 stages of the Tour de Suisse, Urs
    Freuler also took 10 World Track titles. After not making
    the podium last year at the Tour de France, the Swiss native
    not only won this year's Tour de France but also did it
    without Tyler using any performance enhancing drugs. Still,
    he felt for those who yearned for a Lance victory.

    "What can I say?" Freuler said. "I feel great, the jihad
    worked and it was an emotional thing. It's sad because Lance
    was great for racing."

    Emma O'Reilly, Ireland's leading big mouth, was weepy and
    overjoyed. Her feelings were confusing. "This means so much
    to me," she said.

    "This is a homebred champion. My husband [Mr. Hamilton,
    Tyler's father] is the one who decided that we breed and
    produce this year's Tour de France champion. But we do feel
    bad for Lance (wink, wink). It's bittersweet. We were
    rooting for Lance (wink, wink). We love Lance. I think
    Lance has done more for the racing community and people who
    love cycling."

    Love hurts, and Lance went down because he was judged badly
    by David Walsh and Pierre Ballester at the end of a glorious
    ride through France. Bruyneel, the only Belgian coach Lance
    has ever known, asked far too much of him in the most
    grueling race Lance will ever run.

    Lance never got a breather in an exhausting stage to the top
    of Plateau de Beille. He was 30 seconds behind at the first
    feed zone and two minutes back at the base of the last climb
    while always battling just to stay in the peloton. His
    pharmacist was worried a long way out, and he looked more
    angry than disappointed seconds after Tyler Hamilton crossed
    the finish line to win the stage.

    "We just weren't able to manage his hematocrit," Bruyneel
    said minutes later. "You can't win a 23 day stage race
    without getting that stabilized. I knew when we didn't
    win Plateau de Beille that we were in a little trouble.
    He just wasn't stabilized the way he was in the previous
    two stages."

    After taking constant pressure from Roberto Heras and Oscar
    Sevilla while chasing Jan Ullrich and Iban Mayo, Lance
    Armstrong took the early lead on the L'Alpe d'Huez stage by
    10 seconds half way to the top. Bruyneel had him kick for
    home early -- too early -- and opened a 20 second lead 6
    kilometers from the finish. Heras, Sevilla, Mayo and Ullrich
    were done, but Tyler Hamilton proved to have the biggest
    schlong of the day and won big time.

    The next day, Freuler let Tyler Hamilton move comfortably to
    the finish in Le Grand Bornand while Lance took the heat
    down the backstretch, and although Tyler was far back,
    Freuler still wasn't worried. Tyler Hamilton was on cruise
    control, and Lance wasn't home free.

    "At the top of the Col de la Madeleine, I still thought we
    had a good shot," Bruyneel said, "but then I looked over and
    saw Tyler Hamilton smoking a cigarette and thought we might
    be in trouble."

    He was. Tyler Hamilton ground Lance down and took the lead
    for good, and Lance had nothing left to throw at him. Tyler
    Hamilton lost only 12 seconds in the descent into the Le
    Grand Bornand finish while Lance Armstrong rode at 60
    kilometers per hour in the last 2 kilometers, way too fast
    to recover for the next day.

    Millions of American people were seriously bummed out
    because Lance got beat in Paris. Jay Leno had called to ask
    if Lance would come to California to appear on his show.
    President Bush issued an open invitation for Lance to visit
    the Rose Garden. One woman wrote to Bruyneel and asked if
    she could have a nude photo shoot taken with Lance. All were
    turned down.

    "It's unbelievable how it's taken off," Bruyneel said
    Friday. "It's just kind of snowballed. It seems like the
    story is flowing across the country and everyone has
    kind of adopted him as the feel-good story and their
    favorite Texan."

    "I think the timing has a lot to do with it. There are so
    many bad things going on in the world," Jonathan Vaughters
    of Boulder said when he came to the Paris finish of the Tour
    de France. "People get tired of looking at the bad things on
    the front page and they skip to the sports page. They get to
    read a feel-good story about a little drug using Texas
    cyclist who's doing swell."

    "It has been great for the drug companies, and hopefully it
    continues."

    Unfortunately for Lance and his connections, it didn't.

    Bruyneel tried to accentuate the positive while taking the
    pain with class and grace. While Freuler was being
    interviewed after the race, Bruyneel congratulated him with
    a crushing Belgian handshake.

    "Well, it's tough," Bruyneel said. "We had a shot to make
    big history here. We didn't do it. We've had a great
    year. I'm not going to put my head down. I'm proud of the
    whole team and everybody needs to be happy. They don't
    need to be sad."

    Too bad it didn't feel that way Sunday night in Paris, and
    that wouldn't change Monday morning.

    "David Off" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:40e5295d$0$17617$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-
    05.noos.net...

    Quoted message said:

    news.bbc.co.uk385
    8759.stm

    Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win
    six Tours de France, according to 1987 winner Stephen
    Roche. Armstrong is the race favourite in 2004, but
    Irishman Roche believes 1997 Tour winner Jan Ullrich will
    halt the Texan's historic bid.

    "I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche told
    BBC Sport.

    "He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and
    tactically more astute, but I don't believe he's the same
    rider physically anymore."

    He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich first,
    Tyler Hamilton second and Armstrong third." Armstrong does
    not appear to be at his best going into the 2004 race.

    He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the Dauphine
    Libere and looked as though he was struggling at crucial
    times. In contrast, Ullrich appears to be in good shape,
    close to the sort of form that won him the race seven
    years ago.

    And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after
    his runner-up spot 12 months ago. "People have been
    talking about him carrying too much weight and not
    looking as sharp in races as before, but that's
    nonsense," said Roche.

    "He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the
    Tour of Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form at
    exactly the right


    time."

    Quoted message said:


    Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.

    Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time
    champions Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault
    and Miguel Indurain - he lacked the invincibility of
    previous seasons.

    He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on the
    final ascent on stage 15, and was repeatedly attacked by
    his rivals. "Last year, the cracks started to show," said
    Roche. "Those cracks are only going to get wider."

  3. Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!

    "David Off" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:40e5295d$0$17617$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-
    05.noos.net...

    Quoted message said:

    news.bbc.co.uk385
    8759.stm

    Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win
    six Tours de France, according to 1987 winner Stephen
    Roche. Armstrong is the race favourite in 2004, but
    Irishman Roche believes 1997 Tour winner Jan Ullrich will
    halt the Texan's historic bid.

    "I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche told
    BBC Sport.

    "He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and
    tactically more astute, but I don't believe he's the same
    rider physically anymore."

    He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich first,
    Tyler Hamilton second and Armstrong third." Armstrong does
    not appear to be at his best going into the 2004 race.

    He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the Dauphine
    Libere and looked as though he was struggling at crucial
    times. In contrast, Ullrich appears to be in good shape,
    close to the sort of form that won him the race seven
    years ago.

    And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after
    his runner-up spot 12 months ago. "People have been
    talking about him carrying too much weight and not
    looking as sharp in races as before, but that's
    nonsense," said Roche.

    "He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the
    Tour of Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form at
    exactly the right


    time."

    Quoted message said:


    Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.

    Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time
    champions Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault
    and Miguel Indurain - he lacked the invincibility of
    previous seasons.

    He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on the
    final ascent on stage 15, and was repeatedly attacked by
    his rivals. "Last year, the cracks started to show," said
    Roche. "Those cracks are only going to get wider."

  4. I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his faults, is
    a fairly perceptive race observer. I happened to be flipping
    through his autobiography last night [The Agony and the
    Ecstasy with---DAVID WALSH :-)] and he really does have
    interesting and accurate observations as to then current
    riders. We'll soon know.

    "robet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!

    "David Off" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:40e5295d$0$17617$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-
    05.noos.net...

    Quoted message said:

    news.bbc.co.uk38
    58759.stm


    [snip]

  5. David Off said:

    France, according to 1987 winner Stephen Roche. Armstrong
    is the race

    Didn't Roche have a TT bike with a totally crazy seat
    tube slope? Something like 55 degs or something? I
    looked for that pictures of that bike at some point but
    couldn't find it.

    Didier

    --
    Didier A Depireux [email hidden]
    [email hidden] 20 Penn Str - S218E
    neurobiology.umaryland.edudepireux.htm Anatomy
    and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (lab) University
    of Maryland -1273 (off) Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax:
    1-410-706-2512

  6. B. Lafferty said:

    I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his faults,
    is a fairly perceptive race observer.

    I think Roche is right, but if Armstrong does crack I think
    he will end up a long way back not third. There are a few
    riders going into the race who have good teams and are
    extremely motivated and saw that Armstrong could be beaten
    last year. I think Ullrich could do it, I'm not convinced
    Mayo will get through all the 3 weeks. Hamilton is a bit of
    a wildcard, I admire Roche for sticking his neck out.

    As you said, Roche has faults, but at least he used to race
    to win the whole season which is one reason I hesitate to
    put LA up in the same class with Merckx and Coppi although I
    respect his comeback after cancer. Although if he makes six
    TdFs I think he will be one of the greats. Let's not forget
    that all the guys you mentioned have faults.

  7. On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 11:22:36 +0200, David Off <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    cracks started to show," said Roche. "Those cracks are only
    going to get wider."

    ...much like Roche's frame nowadays.

  8. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his faults,
    is a fairly perceptive race observer. I happened to be
    flipping through his autobiography last night [The Agony
    and the Ecstasy with---DAVID WALSH


    :-)]

    Quoted message said:

    and he really does have interesting and accurate
    observations as to then current riders. We'll soon know.

    "robet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!


    Roche had a great career- he has nothing to prove, gain or
    lose with his observations.

    My feeling is that this tour will be much tougher for lance
    because he has everything to prove and he will be under
    incredible pressure. Even more so than Ullrich, or those who
    have never won. The pressure will be immense and no one is
    superhuman, not even lance. I think i said before that if he
    does begin to crack or falter at all, it won't be in the beginning-
    it will be in the third week. Let's face it, winning five
    takes a toll on you no matter what. Not just DOING five, but
    winning five. Ullrich's year off probably added two years to
    his career.BUt I began to notice last year that lance is
    really starting to age and looked mch older than he did in
    1995. It's like winning each tour ages you in dog years. And
    there's not just ullrich, but other younger guys putting on
    the pressure like Mayo and others who want the big stage
    wins in the mountains. So if that pressure doesn't get to
    him, I will be truly astonished and ask for his secret in
    dealing with stress!

  9. David Off <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    news.bbc.co.uk385
    8759.stm


    [snip]

    Regarding Tyler Hamilton's gritty 2003 performance, Roche
    had this to say: "Hamilton show is bad for cycling."

    Do the press catch up with him for his clever insights after
    he's put away a few pitchers of Guiness?

  10. "David Off" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    news.bbc.co.uk385
    8759.stm

    Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win
    six Tours de France, according to 1987 winner Stephen
    Roche. Armstrong is the race favourite in 2004, but
    Irishman Roche believes 1997 Tour winner Jan Ullrich will
    halt the Texan's historic bid.

    "I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche told
    BBC Sport.

    "He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and
    tactically more astute, but I don't believe he's the same
    rider physically anymore."

    He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich first,
    Tyler Hamilton second and Armstrong third." Armstrong does
    not appear to be at his best going into the 2004 race.

    I have been keeping this to myself, but I also think all of
    the evidence points to an Ullrich win. I don't know how
    Lance will react to losing, so Tyler has ever chance to beat
    Lance. Actually, Tyler is having such a strong season while
    apparently not yet at his peak and it does seem to look like
    Tyler could actally pull it off if nothing goes wrong for
    him. He did beat Lance and Ullrich in last year's final ITT
    (only a confessed EPO user beat Tyler that day and he may in
    fact inherit the win rertroactively). The thing is that the
    parcours is so unique this year it really is not so easy to
    pick a favorite. This year, tactics will make more
    difference than any year since...probably 1988 (although
    there were not a lot of strong contenders to exploit that
    edition's unique course).

    Anyhow, Tyler can beat Lance on any given day and if he
    realized that last year and planned his whole Tour around
    the assumption that Lance is not a shoo-in then Tyler is
    probably the best equipped after Ullrich. The thing about
    Ullrich is that we really do not know how he will react to
    *finally* being expected to win and being prepared
    physically. Ullrich's best year of fitness against Lance
    was in 2001, but that was not the same rider that ripped up
    the cols and TTs in 1996, '97 or even '98. If Jan can
    acheive that level of fitness and not choke from placing
    second so many times (I do beleive many riders get psched
    out by their previous results). The bottom line is that a
    well prepared Ullrich or Hamilton have an even chance to
    beat Armstrong, except that LA has the psychological
    advantage and that may be what allows him to race to his
    record breaking 6th win. He fooled them last year and
    nobody reacted too stronly to all of his BS excuses that
    were really all about making it seem foolish to attack him.
    It was cool watching him suffer like that last year and he
    really did earn that win. It all boils down this year to
    the unique course and how the other contenders react to his
    weakening form. Unless there is some disaster, this will be
    one of the most competitive Tours since '89 (3 previous
    winners all battling for the win to the end). I almost wish
    that the last day was an ITT again, AMO blew it on that.
    They knew in plenty of time that this would be a hard
    faught Tour and the last days spring stage in not as
    important to tradition as having an exciting GC battle.

    Quoted message said:

    He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the
    Dauphine Libere and looked as though he was struggling at
    crucial times.

    That can cut both ways.

    Quoted message said:

    In contrast, Ullrich appears to be in good shape, close to
    the sort of form that won him the race seven years ago.

    Lance has still won far more races this year but the timing
    of Ullrich's wins compared to his previous attempts to
    dethrone LA are what is most relavant. I actually think LA
    will be stronger in the prolog this year but I think Ullrich
    is a lot less likely to lose form before the end. The only
    Tour that Ullrich lost form in was the year he won.
    Hmm...well, that was really a different situtation.

    Quoted message said:

    And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after
    his runner-up spot 12 months ago.

    Let's hope so.

    Quoted message said:

    "People have been talking about him carrying too much
    weight and not looking as sharp in races as before, but
    that's nonsense," said Roche.

    Totally.

    Quoted message said:

    "He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the
    Tour of Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form at
    exactly the right


    time."

    Quoted message said:


    Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.

    Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time
    champions Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault
    and Miguel Indurain - he lacked the invincibility of
    previous seasons.

    He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on the
    final ascent on stage 15, and was repeatedly attacked by
    his rivals. "Last year, the cracks started to show," said
    Roche. "Those cracks are only going to get wider."

    I agree with Stephen. Lance would have you believe that all
    of those were mistakes that are not likely to be repeated
    (isolated bad luck or something). He is not much stronger
    than his rivals or maybe slightly weaker but he is mentally
    the toughest racer I have ever seen. He knows how and when
    to suffer. If he does take a 6th Tour (and is not exposed as
    a cheat) he will be remembered as the hardest working man of
    his generation. I think that also explains his popularity.
    If only he had a little more tact, he might not have as many
    people waiting for him to fall. He was not a gracious winner
    last year (although he was in the previous 4 wins) and I
    hate to think about his reaction to actually losing. I even
    thought he might retire after last year, because his fear of
    losing is so intense. I guess his ego is still as strong as
    ever though and so now he will try to take the out right
    record for Tour wins at an age when Hinault (one of he best
    all rounders after Eddy) retired.

  11. "Richard Longwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Lance Armstrong's Bid For Coveted Sixth Tour de France
    Foiled By Joe King, Dullard Trite, and Richard Longwood
    Special to ESPN, MTV, MIT, and CYCLINGNEWS.COM

    PARIS, FRANCE -- Heading into the final stages of the 2004
    Tour de France, Lance Armstrong looked destined to be in
    clear and eternal glory. Another victory and he would
    create a new cycling pantheon. But long shot Tyler
    Hamilton was coming on steadily, and suddenly Lance began
    to look weary. There would be no six-time Tour de France
    champion.

    I think if Lance does lose, he may fail to get the yellow
    jersey entirely.

    Quoted message said:

    Even when he still was in front by minutes, Johan
    Bruyneel, Lance Armstrong's coach, knew he was in trouble.
    "When I looked back and saw


    the

    Quoted message said:

    way Tyler Hamilton was coming at us, yeah, I thought we
    were going to get beat," Bruyneel said.

    Tyler Hamilton, coached by Urs Freuler, had Lance
    Armstrong in his sights, and 7 stages from the last stage,
    Urs Freuler's stallion went by the five time Tour de
    France champion en route to a commanding victory before a


    crowd

    Quoted message said:

    of millions, the largest ever to see a sporting event in
    France. For the first time in five years, Lance Armstrong
    didn't win.

    Freuler and the other Phonak managers Alvaro Pino, Jacques
    Michaud, and


    René

    Quoted message said:

    Savary and Tyler's parents had mixed emotions after last
    year's situation when Tyler emerged from obscurity last
    July to become Massachusetts' favorite son and an
    international celebrity.

    As Tyler Hamilton and Lance Armstrong galloped out,
    Freuler got on


    Bruyneel'

    Quoted message said:

    s radio frequency and told him, "Better luck next time
    jackass! You were


    a

    Quoted message said:

    fool for letting your pretty boy do all those OLN segments
    and all those other car commercials." It surprised
    Bruyneel, who undoubtedly was in an agitated state.

    Funny...and somehow realistic?

    Quoted message said:

    "He said he was sorry," Bruyneel said. "I said, 'What are
    you going to


    do?

    Quoted message said:

    That's bike racing.'"

    Freuler was thrilled over finally beating his jinx race
    and completing his personal goal. Besides winning 15
    stages of the Giro d'Italia, 3 stages


    of

    Quoted message said:

    the Tour de France, 5 stages of the Tour de Romandie, 9
    stages of the Tour de Suisse, Urs Freuler also took 10
    World Track titles. After not making the podium last year
    at the Tour de France, the Swiss native not only won this
    year's Tour de France but also did it without Tyler using
    any performance enhancing drugs. Still, he felt for those
    who yearned for a Lance victory.

    "What can I say?" Freuler said. "I feel great, the jihad
    worked and it was an emotional thing. It's sad because
    Lance was great for racing."

    Emma O'Reilly, Ireland's leading big mouth, was weepy and
    overjoyed. Her feelings were confusing. "This means so
    much to me," she said.

    "This is a homebred champion. My husband [Mr. Hamilton,
    Tyler's father]


    is

    Quoted message said:

    the one who decided that we breed and produce this year's
    Tour de France champion.

    Tyler got in to cycling the same way Greg Lemond did, while
    using it to train for competitive skiing.

    Quoted message said:

    But we do feel bad for Lance (wink, wink). It's
    bittersweet. We were rooting for Lance (wink, wink). We
    love Lance. I think Lance has


    done

    Quoted message said:

    more for the racing community and people who love
    cycling."

    Love hurts, and Lance went down because he was judged
    badly by David Walsh and Pierre Ballester at the end of a
    glorious ride through France. Bruyneel, the only Belgian
    coach Lance has ever known, asked far too much


    of

    Quoted message said:

    him in the most grueling race Lance will ever run.

    Lance never got a breather in an exhausting stage to the
    top of Plateau de Beille. He was 30 seconds behind at the
    first feed zone and two minutes back at the base of the
    last climb while always battling just to stay in


    the

    Quoted message said:

    peloton. His pharmacist was worried a long way out, and he
    looked more angry than disappointed seconds after Tyler
    Hamilton crossed the finish


    line

    Quoted message said:

    to win the stage.

    "We just weren't able to manage his hematocrit," Bruyneel
    said minutes later. "You can't win a 23 day stage race
    without getting that stabilized.

    OMG...I guess people are really starting to think that...

    Quoted message said:

    I knew when we didn't win Plateau de Beille that we were
    in a little trouble. He just wasn't stabilized the way he
    was in the previous two stages."

    After taking constant pressure from Roberto Heras and
    Oscar Sevilla while chasing Jan Ullrich and Iban Mayo,
    Lance Armstrong took the early lead on the L'Alpe d'Huez
    stage by 10 seconds half way to the top. Bruyneel had


    him

    Quoted message said:

    kick for home early -- too early -- and opened a 20
    second lead 6


    kilometers

    Quoted message said:

    from the finish. Heras, Sevilla, Mayo and Ullrich were
    done, but Tyler Hamilton proved to have the biggest
    schlong of the day and won big time.

    The next day, Freuler let Tyler Hamilton move comfortably
    to the finish in Le Grand Bornand while Lance took the
    heat down the backstretch, and although Tyler was far
    back, Freuler still wasn't worried. Tyler Hamilton was on
    cruise control, and Lance wasn't home free.

    "At the top of the Col de la Madeleine, I still thought we
    had a good


    shot,"

    Quoted message said:

    Bruyneel said, "but then I looked over and saw Tyler
    Hamilton smoking a cigarette and thought we might be in
    trouble."

    He was. Tyler Hamilton ground Lance down and took the lead
    for good, and Lance had nothing left to throw at him.
    Tyler Hamilton lost only 12


    seconds

    Quoted message said:

    in the descent into the Le Grand Bornand finish while
    Lance Armstrong rode at 60 kilometers per hour in the last
    2 kilometers, way too fast to


    recover

    Quoted message said:

    for the next day.

    Millions of American people were seriously bummed out
    because Lance got


    beat

    Quoted message said:

    in Paris. Jay Leno had called to ask if Lance would come
    to California to appear on his show. President Bush issued
    an open invitation for Lance to visit the Rose Garden. One
    woman wrote to Bruyneel and asked if she could have a nude
    photo shoot taken with Lance. All were turned down.

    "It's unbelievable how it's taken off," Bruyneel said
    Friday. "It's just kind of snowballed. It seems like the
    story is flowing across the country and everyone has
    kind of adopted him as the feel-good story and their
    favorite Texan."

    Let's see how he handles losing before we write the final
    chapter of "The Lance Chronicles".

    Quoted message said:

    "I think the timing has a lot to do with it. There are so
    many bad things going on in the world," Jonathan Vaughters
    of Boulder said when he came to the Paris finish of the
    Tour de France. "People get tired of looking at


    the

    Quoted message said:

    bad things on the front page and they skip to the sports
    page. They get


    to

    Quoted message said:

    read a feel-good story about a little drug using Texas
    cyclist who's doing swell."

    "It has been great for the drug companies, and hopefully
    it continues."

    That is probably true.

    Quoted message said:

    Unfortunately for Lance and his connections, it didn't.

    Bruyneel tried to accentuate the positive while taking the
    pain with class and grace. While Freuler was being
    interviewed after the race, Bruyneel congratulated him
    with a crushing Belgian handshake.

    "Well, it's tough," Bruyneel said. "We had a shot to make
    big history


    here.

    Quoted message said:

    We didn't do it. We've had a great year. I'm not going to
    put my head down. I'm proud of the whole team and
    everybody needs to be happy. They don't need to be sad."

    Too bad it didn't feel that way Sunday night in Paris, and
    that wouldn't change Monday morning.

    I do think that Bruyneel will show himself as the (USPS)
    man with the most class...when they have to handle a loss
    in the Tour.

    Quoted message said:

    "David Off" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:40e5295d$0$17617$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-
    05.noos.net...

    Quoted message said:

    news.bbc.co.uk38
    58759.stm

    Lance Armstrong will fail to become the first man to win
    six Tours de France, according to 1987 winner Stephen
    Roche. Armstrong is the race favourite in 2004, but
    Irishman Roche believes 1997 Tour winner Jan Ullrich
    will halt the Texan's historic bid.

    "I would be really surprised if Armstrong won," Roche
    told BBC Sport.

    "He may be mentally tougher than he's ever been and
    tactically more astute, but I don't believe he's the
    same rider physically anymore."

    He added: "If I were to pick it, I'd go Ullrich
    first, Tyler Hamilton second and Armstrong third."
    Armstrong does not appear to be at his best going
    into the 2004 race.

    He was outridden by Iban Mayo and Hamilton on the
    Dauphine Libere and looked as though he was struggling
    at crucial times. In contrast, Ullrich appears to be in
    good shape, close to the sort of form that won him the
    race seven years ago.

    And Roche believes the German has even more "bite" after
    his runner-up spot 12 months ago. "People have been
    talking about him carrying too much weight and not
    looking as sharp in races as before, but that's
    nonsense," said Roche.

    "He looked better and better in his final warm-up - the
    Tour of Switzerland - and I think he's hitting top form
    at exactly the right


    time."

    Quoted message said:


    Armstrong endured his toughest Tour in 2003.

    Although he won - matching the achievements of five-time
    champions Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault
    and Miguel Indurain - he lacked the invincibility of
    previous seasons.

    He suffered from malnutrition and dehydration, fell on
    the final ascent on stage 15, and was repeatedly
    attacked by his rivals. "Last year, the cracks started
    to show," said Roche. "Those cracks are only going to
    get wider."

  12. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his faults,

    I guess you have to say that after Stephen's (one) lapse in
    judgement.

    Quoted message said:

    is a fairly perceptive race observer. I happened to be
    flipping through his autobiography last night [The Agony
    and the Ecstasy with---DAVID WALSH


    :-)]

    Quoted message said:

    and he really does have interesting and accurate
    observations as to then current riders. We'll soon know.

    Stephen was one of the most talented of his generation and
    if his knee had not caused so many troughs in his career he
    likely would have a palmares somewhere between Lemond's and
    Hinault's. When he was on form, he could take any mountain
    stage, ITT or hilly classic. The thing is I don't think Greg
    and Stephen were ever on form at the same time. Greg spent
    more time "in the (winning) zone" but I don't know that he
    was stronger. I am sure he is one of the better analysts
    because of how much of his career he spent "on the mend" and
    watching the big events from the sidelines.

    Quoted message said:

    "robet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!

    "David Off" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:40e5295d$0$17617$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-
    05.noos.net...

    Quoted message said:

    news.bbc.co.uknews.bbc.co.uk
    3858759.stm


    [snip]

  13. "Marlene Blanshay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_0gFc.15641>

    Quoted message said:

    My feeling is that this tour will be much tougher for
    lance because he has everything to prove and he will be
    under incredible pressure. Even more so than Ullrich, or
    those who have never won. The pressure will be immense


    and

    Quoted message said:

    no one is superhuman, not even lance. I think i said
    before that if he


    does

    Quoted message said:

    begin to crack or falter at all, it won't be in the beginning-
    it will be


    in

    Quoted message said:

    the third week. Let's face it, winning five takes a toll
    on you no matter what. Not just DOING five, but winning
    five. Ullrich's year off probably added two years to his
    career.BUt I began to notice last year that lance


    is

    Quoted message said:

    really starting to age and looked mch older than he did in
    1995. It's like winning each tour ages you in dog years.
    And there's not just ullrich, but other younger guys
    putting on the pressure like Mayo and others who want


    the

    Quoted message said:

    big stage wins in the mountains. So if that pressure
    doesn't get to him, I will be truly astonished and ask for
    his secret in dealing with stress!


    Agree, just hope nobody makes a fool out of LA, as Riis did
    of Indurain in the 96 tour. -tom

  14. "Marlene Blanshay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:71-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I agree it's time to race, but Roche, for all his
    faults, is a fairly perceptive race observer. I happened
    to be flipping through his autobiography last night [The
    Agony and the Ecstasy with---DAVID WALSH


    :-)]

    Quoted message said:

    and he really does have interesting and accurate
    observations as to then current riders. We'll soon know.

    "robet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Talk is cheap... let the race begin!!!!!


    Roche had a great career- he has nothing to prove, gain or
    lose with his observations.

    My feeling is that this tour will be much tougher for
    lance because he has everything to prove and he will be
    under incredible pressure. Even more so than Ullrich, or
    those who have never won. The pressure will be immense


    and

    Quoted message said:

    no one is superhuman, not even lance.

    The pressure works in Lance's favor for as long as he has
    the form to compete.

    I think i said before that if he does

    Quoted message said:

    begin to crack or falter at all, it won't be in the beginning-
    it will be


    in

    Quoted message said:

    the third week.

    I think I could handle the first 2 weeks of this Tour, so
    that is not really a prediction that requires a lot of
    thought...

    Let's face it, winning five takes a toll on you no matter

    Quoted message said:

    what. Not just DOING five, but winning five.

    I think it is a case of declining VO2 max that comes with
    age and declining HGH and testosterone levels. The pressure
    works for him until *that* starts to take its toll. The fact
    that it is considered doping and not detectable (in most
    cases) to use HRT means that a 6th win in some minds will be
    more evidence that Lance dopes.

    Quoted message said:

    Ullrich's year off probably added two years to his career.

    Hmm...

    Quoted message said:

    BUt I began to notice last year that lance is really
    starting to age and looked mch older than he did in 1995.
    It's like winning each tour ages you in dog years.

    Evidence that he is *not* using HRT (considered doping) even
    though he could do it without testing positive.

    And there's not just ullrich, but

    Quoted message said:

    other younger guys putting on the pressure like Mayo and
    others who want


    the

    Quoted message said:

    big stage wins in the mountains. So if that pressure
    doesn't get to him, I will be truly astonished and ask for
    his secret in dealing with stress!

    He already talks about it numerous times in his books. He
    hates to "lose" and has an American attitude towards bike
    racing. There is only one winner and the rest are
    "losers". His ego issues turn that in to a competitive
    advantage. I have no idea what his Oedipus complex does
    for his racing though so I will leave that to others to
    figure out. Maybe having his mom and the others around
    keep him keeps him highly motivated to not be a "loser"
    that he fears himself to be?

  15. "Didier A. Depireux" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    David Off said:

    France, according to 1987 winner Stephen Roche.
    Armstrong is the race

    Didn't Roche have a TT bike with a totally crazy seat
    tube slope?


    Something

    Quoted message said:

    like 55 degs or something? I looked for that pictures of
    that bike at some point but couldn't find it.

    Didier

    No, you are thinking of Steve Bauer's bikes (from the
    early 90s IIRC. I only saw the road version with the
    radical seat tube angle). Roche only ever raced with team
    issue bikes AFAIK.

    Quoted message said:

    --
    Didier A Depireux [email hidden]
    [email hidden] 20 Penn Str - S218E
    neurobiology.umaryland.edudepireux.htm Anatomy
    and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (lab) University
    of Maryland -1273 (off) Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax:
    1-410-706-2512

  16. Quoted message said:

    I think Roche is right, but if Armstrong does crack I
    think he will end up a long way back not third.

    I tend to agree with this. If he doesn't win it I think
    he'll be way back or even drop before the finish. But I'm
    also anticipating a finish similar to TDS. One second never
    looked so huge. I'm getting a woody.

  17. Tom Nakashima said:

    Agree, just hope nobody makes a fool out of LA, as Riis
    did of Indurain in the 96 tour.

    Riis didn't beat him, he cracked and lost the race... he was
    beaten by a number of his competitors that year.

    --
    David N. Welton Personal: dedasys.comdavidw
    Free Software: dedasys.comfreesoftware Apache
    Tcl: tcl.apache.orgtcl.apache.org Photos:
    dedasys.comphotos

  18. Chris said:

    Anyhow, Tyler can beat Lance on any given day and if he
    realized that last year and planned his whole Tour around
    the assumption that Lance is not a shoo-in then Tyler is
    probably the best equipped after Ullrich.

    Whoah there... Tyler isn't that great a climber and often
    fades on the final climb. I think of the two, Ullrich is
    usually better up the hills, or at least doesn't lose so
    much on the final portions if he's feeling well.

    --
    David N. Welton Personal: dedasys.comdavidw
    Free Software: dedasys.comfreesoftware Apache
    Tcl: tcl.apache.orgtcl.apache.org Photos:
    dedasys.comphotos

  19. "Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    BUt I began to notice last year that lance is really
    starting to age and looked mch older than he did in
    1995. It's


    like

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    winning each tour ages you in dog years.

    Evidence that he is *not* using HRT (considered doping)
    even though he


    could

    Quoted message said:

    do it without testing positive.


    Explain how taking testosterone and/or hGH amounts to the
    fountain of youth.

  20. Chris said:

    He already talks about it numerous times in his books. He
    hates to "lose"

    plus, if he doens't get yellow there are none of those cute
    podium babes to slip it to after the tour is over.
    Motivation enough.

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