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Robust internal gear hubs

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Cycling Equipment
Published
3 August 2007
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8 August 2007
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Anthony DeLorenzo
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  1. Hi All,

    I'm really keen to use an internally-geared hub on a touring bike I am
    building up. I like (need?) to have a strong, non-dished rear wheel
    and I also prefer to not fuss with derailleurs. This will be my only
    multi-geared bike, my other rides are a singlespeed MTB and a fixie
    commuter.

    I have been researching various hub models on the internet and I am
    getting the sense that, other than Rohloff, nothing on the market can
    really handle anything other than light duty typical of comfort or
    casual bikes.

    To put this into perspective, I am 6'6", 250+ lbs and, although I ride
    smoothly, can apply a lot of power to the pedals when I want to. Throw
    on some cargo, and my habit of dashing off down the odd fire road or
    stretch of singletrack, and I wonder if one of these hubs could handle
    it.

    At 4-5 times the cost I just can't afford a Rohloff. Are any of the
    current offerings from S-A, Shimano or SRAM suitable for my needs, or
    should I stick to a derailleur and keep saving for a Rohloff in the
    future?

    Regards,
    Anthony

  2. For a wide range geared touring bike, Rolhoff is the only game in town
    for a single device solution.

  3. On Aug 3, 12:22 pm, Anthony DeLorenzo <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I'm really keen to use an internally-geared hub on a touring bike I am
    building up. I like (need?) to have a strong, non-dished rear wheel
    and I also prefer to not fuss with derailleurs. This will be my only
    multi-geared bike, my other rides are a singlespeed MTB and a fixie
    commuter.


    How 'bout a Sturmey Archer AW? Durable, classic, cheap. Just make sure
    the cable tension is perfect so you don't slip out of gear.

  4. Anthony DeLorenzo said:


    At 4-5 times the cost I just can't afford a Rohloff. Are any of the
    current offerings from S-A, Shimano or SRAM suitable for my needs, or
    should I stick to a derailleur and keep saving for a Rohloff in the
    future?

    By the time you've bought derailleurs with accompanying shifters, got
    a triple chainset instead of a modest single, plus a decent cassette
    and corresponding hub, you're quite a long way towards the cost of a
    Rohloff

    Kinky Cowboy*

    *Batteries not included
    May contain traces of nuts
    Your milage may vary

  5. Kinky Cowboy said:

    On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 17:22:44 -0000, Anthony DeLorenzo

    Quoted message said:


    At 4-5 times the cost I just can't afford a Rohloff. Are any of the
    current offerings from S-A, Shimano or SRAM suitable for my needs, or
    should I stick to a derailleur and keep saving for a Rohloff in the
    future?

    By the time you've bought derailleurs with accompanying shifters, got
    a triple chainset instead of a modest single, plus a decent cassette
    and corresponding hub, you're quite a long way towards the cost of a
    Rohloff

    Kinky Cowboy*

    *Batteries not included
    May contain traces of nuts
    Your milage may vary


    Not to mention that chainrings and cassettes on a derailleur system will require much more frequent replacement with more expensive parts than the Rohloff ever will.

  6. Kinky Cowboy said:

    By the time you've bought derailleurs with accompanying shifters, got
    a triple chainset instead of a modest single, plus a decent cassette
    and corresponding hub, you're quite a long way towards the cost of a
    Rohloff

    I totally agree if I were starting from scratch, but I have a good
    frame and lots of parts lying around right now for this bike, so the
    cost to build it with a derailleur setup is pretty minimal. Basically,
    no matter what route I go, the only things I need to actually buy are
    a crank, bottom bracket, rear hub and spokes.

    So, I'm looking at the difference between a non-Rohloff internal hub
    and a decent quality rear hub, maybe Shimano XT, which is about $150
    or so. The difference between either option and a Rohloff is more like
    $800-900.

    Regards,
    Anthony

  7. Anthony DeLorenzo said:


    I'm really keen to use an internally-geared hub on a touring bike I am
    building up. I like (need?) to have a strong, non-dished rear wheel
    and I also prefer to not fuss with derailleurs. This will be my only
    multi-geared bike, my other rides are a singlespeed MTB and a fixie
    commuter.

    I have been researching various hub models on the internet and I am
    getting the sense that, other than Rohloff, nothing on the market can
    really handle anything other than light duty typical of comfort or
    casual bikes.

    To put this into perspective, I am 6'6", 250+ lbs and, although I ride
    smoothly, can apply a lot of power to the pedals when I want to. Throw
    on some cargo, and my habit of dashing off down the odd fire road or
    stretch of singletrack, and I wonder if one of these hubs could handle
    it.

    At 4-5 times the cost I just can't afford a Rohloff. Are any of the
    current offerings from S-A, Shimano or SRAM suitable for my needs, or
    should I stick to a derailleur and keep saving for a Rohloff in the

    I am 6'8" tall and weigh close to 350 pounds at this time. I have
    used several gearhubs on my bikes at body weights of 330 to over 400
    pounds, and I have been an active cyclist all that time. Some of
    these bikes have been regular transportation, and some of them have
    been utility rides for carrying things.

    The gearhubs now in my stable include SRAM Spectro 7, Shimano Nexus 7,
    and a Rohloff Speedhub. My wife's bikes feature Sachs Pentasport 5
    and a Rohloff Speedhub. Bikes that I spent some time with before
    passing on to others used Sachs 7 and Shimano 4 gearhubs. Not one of
    these gearhubs has broken outright, but they have not been entirely
    without problems.

    Because I had been warned by a shop owner that some of his customers'
    Nexus 7 hubs developed problems related to high torque loads, I used
    my Nexus 7 hubs only in 20" wheels, whose reduced diameter
    proportionally diminishes gearbox loads. They feel draggier to me
    than my other gearhubs, but they have been reliable. I understand
    that Nexus 8 hubs have improved efficiency compared to Nexus 7 hubs.
    One very nice feature of Nexus hubs is that all the shifting apparatus
    is tucked inside the chainstays and dropouts, out of harm's way.

    The Sachs and Sram 7-speed hubs in my bikes seem more rugged and freer-
    running than the Shimano hubs. They have a wider overall gear range,
    too-- with some of the larger steps between gears bordering on too big
    for my taste. I once tore out an anti-rotation washer on one of these
    hubs, which is the biggest mechanical issue I've had to date with any
    gearhub. (When the axle spins, the hub bearings go out of
    adjustment.) In that case, I had only one anti-spin washer in place,
    because the thick aluminum dropouts of my bike didn't leave me room to
    put one on each side (my usual arrangement). Since then, whenever I
    have room for a washer on only one end of the axle, I have used a
    special washer I machined from steel bar stock.

    The SRAM 7 hub that I still have in service is in a 29" MTB wheel.
    That's a worst case scenario for hub torque. Although I don't take my
    29er off-road, I don't spare it any of the usual hardships of city
    riding. I use 40-21 primary gearing, for a range of 32 to 97 gear
    inches. So far, it has been boringly reliable in this application.

    Note that the parts kit that comes with the SRAM Spectro 7 hub
    contains only one anti-spin washer. I have heard that this serves the
    role of a structural fuse to protect the gearbox from potential
    overloads. I will still use two washers whenever I can. Spare anti-
    spin washers and spare M10.5 axle nuts are cheap and readily
    available; it's a good idea to have some extras set aside. (The nuts
    strip out easily because of the interrupted thread on the flatted
    axle.)

    The SRAM P5 Cargo hub is the only gearhub that is explicitly rated for
    the kind of load you are discussing. It has a slightly narrower
    overall gear range than the regular P5 hub-- close to 2.5:1. I have
    not used one, though, so I can't comment on it from experience.

    The Rohloff Speedhub is a marvelous piece of equipment, but it's not
    without its idiosyncrasies. Mine gives occasional false neutrals in
    its problematic 8th gear-7th gear shift. None of my other gearhubs
    have done that.

    If you can make peace with a single speed for all other uses besides
    touring, then I think you will probably be happy with a 7- or 8-speed
    gearhub for touring. Exercise restraint in how tall you make your top
    gear; there's little reason to go much taller than what you have on
    your fixie. That will leave you plenty of low gears for coping with
    heavy loads and unfavorable conditions.

    A friend of mine who is half my size recently broke the axle on his
    Sachs 3x7 hub. He was using it in a single speed MTB frame that had
    been amateurishly widened to accept the new hub, and the misaligned
    dropouts appear to have been the critical factor in the failure of his
    hub. Check your dropout alignment before you put your new bike in
    service, to avoid unnecessary problems.

    Good Luck!

    Chalo

  8. landotter said:

    How 'bout a Sturmey Archer AW? Durable, classic, cheap. Just make sure
    the cable tension is perfect so you don't slip out of gear.

    I'm looking more at like a 7 or 8-speed hub, I would prefer a wider
    range of gears for road touring.

    My concern is that will any non-Rohloff internal gear hub actually be
    able to handle the strain I can put on one, in terms of rider weight
    and torque.

  9. Just get the Rohloff hub. They last and last and don't break, and the
    running costs are a lot less than a derailleur system. I have three of the
    hubs, including one on a tandem. Rohloff claim to have never received one
    back that had failed.

    "Anthony DeLorenzo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Kinky Cowboy said:

    By the time you've bought derailleurs with accompanying shifters, got
    a triple chainset instead of a modest single, plus a decent cassette
    and corresponding hub, you're quite a long way towards the cost of a
    Rohloff

    I totally agree if I were starting from scratch, but I have a good
    frame and lots of parts lying around right now for this bike, so the
    cost to build it with a derailleur setup is pretty minimal. Basically,
    no matter what route I go, the only things I need to actually buy are
    a crank, bottom bracket, rear hub and spokes.

    So, I'm looking at the difference between a non-Rohloff internal hub
    and a decent quality rear hub, maybe Shimano XT, which is about $150
    or so. The difference between either option and a Rohloff is more like
    $800-900.

    Regards,
    Anthony

  10. Chalo said:

    If you can make peace with a single speed for all other uses besides
    touring, then I think you will probably be happy with a 7- or 8-speed
    gearhub for touring. Exercise restraint in how tall you make your top
    gear; there's little reason to go much taller than what you have on
    your fixie. That will leave you plenty of low gears for coping with
    heavy loads and unfavorable conditions.

    Hi Chalo,

    Thank you for the detailed reply, it's great to have first-hand
    experience to draw on. You've encouraged me to take the plunge and try
    one of these out. The advice about dropouts and spare anti-rotation
    washers is well-noted, I'll be sure to check my frame and buy spare
    washers.

    In terms of gearing I'll likely try something like a 36x20 chainring
    and cog, which would put me in the range of 25 - 80 gear inches
    depending on the hub I use (Shimano or SRAM). Oddly enough, the S-A 8-
    speed hub has direct drive in the lowest gear, which seems to rule it
    out unless I want to use a granny ring up front (I don't).

    Regards,
    Anthony

  11. Per NickP:

    Quoted message said:

    Rohloff claim to have never received one
    back that had failed.

    They received one of mine a couple of years ago - leaking oil
    through the old-style gasket.
    --
    PeteCresswell

  12. Chalo said:

    The SRAM P5 Cargo hub is the only gearhub that is explicitly rated for
    the kind of load you are discussing.

    But the Rohloff is sold for tandem use, which is just as severe.
    IIRC, the only differences between a tandem Speedhub and a plain
    one are longer cables and flanges drilled for heavier gauge spokes.

    Quoted message said:

    The Rohloff Speedhub is a marvelous piece of equipment, but it's not
    without its idiosyncrasies. Mine gives occasional false neutrals in
    its problematic 8th gear-7th gear shift. None of my other gearhubs
    have done that.

    Interesting. I have never gotten what I'd call a false neutral
    from mine (I mean where it stays in neutral like a Sturmey-Archer
    can between 2 and 3). 7->8 can be a rough shift, sometimes with
    a small jump (maybe 10 degrees of crank rotation) before catching,
    but that isn't the kind of neutral that can hurt you.

    Tom Ace

  13. Anthony DeLorenzo said:

    Hi All,

    I'm really keen to use an internally-geared hub on a touring bike I am
    building up. I like (need?) to have a strong, non-dished rear wheel
    and I also prefer to not fuss with derailleurs. This will be my only
    multi-geared bike, my other rides are a singlespeed MTB and a fixie
    commuter.

    I have been researching various hub models on the internet and I am
    getting the sense that, other than Rohloff, nothing on the market can
    really handle anything other than light duty typical of comfort or
    casual bikes.

    To put this into perspective, I am 6'6", 250+ lbs and, although I ride
    smoothly, can apply a lot of power to the pedals when I want to. Throw
    on some cargo, and my habit of dashing off down the odd fire road or
    stretch of singletrack, and I wonder if one of these hubs could handle
    it.

    At 4-5 times the cost I just can't afford a Rohloff. Are any of the
    current offerings from S-A, Shimano or SRAM suitable for my needs, or
    should I stick to a derailleur and keep saving for a Rohloff in the
    future?

    Regards,
    Anthony

    There's some pictures of a frame modified for a Rohloff hub here.

    http://www.hyperactive.oz.nf/Rohloff/Rohloff.htm

  14. Anthony DeLorenzo said:


    In terms of gearing I'll likely try something like a 36x20 chainring
    and cog, which would put me in the range of 25 - 80 gear inches
    depending on the hub I use (Shimano or SRAM).

    That's a good range for touring and load carrying. Since I have
    gotten good results from a relatively similar 40-21 gear driven by a
    190mm crank, and I weigh 100 lbs. more than you do, I think you are
    unlikely to have problems related to excess gearbox torque.

    Quoted message said:

    Oddly enough, the S-A 8-
    speed hub has direct drive in the lowest gear, which seems to rule it
    out unless I want to use a granny ring up front (I don't).

    I know the Sturmey Archer 8 is an all-new design, but the S-A Sprinter
    7 was widely regarded as the weakest of the 7-speed hubs.

    Chalo

  15. Per Dorfus Dippintush:

    Quoted message said:

    There's some pictures of a frame modified for a Rohloff hub here.

    http://www.hyperactive.oz.nf/Rohloff/Rohloff.htm

    Just for those that aren't familiar with Rohloff installs:
    there's nothing that actually *needs* tb Rohloff-specific on your
    bike. The pix above show a frame where chain length adjustment
    has been enabled via new dropouts... but it's not something
    actually *required* to run a Rohloff hub - which it seems to me
    like can be mounted on just about any bike. I've done them on
    hard tails, and several different FS's with no modifications at
    all.
    --
    PeteCresswell

  16. Anthony DeLorenzo said:

    I have been researching various hub models on the internet and I am
    getting the sense that, other than Rohloff, nothing on the market can
    really handle anything other than light duty typical of comfort or
    casual bikes.

    To put this into perspective, I am 6'6", 250+ lbs and, although I ride
    smoothly, can apply a lot of power to the pedals when I want to. Throw
    on some cargo, and my habit of dashing off down the odd fire road or
    stretch of singletrack, and I wonder if one of these hubs could handle
    it.

    At 4-5 times the cost I just can't afford a Rohloff. Are any of the
    current offerings from S-A, Shimano or SRAM suitable for my needs, or
    should I stick to a derailleur and keep saving for a Rohloff in the
    future?

    As Chalo mentioned later in the thread, the big problem with some of
    these is the anti-rotation system. I had a 7-speed Nexus on a tandem
    that was used very casually, and my wife and I would regularly exert
    enough force to unseat it, which screwed up all the gears. I then put
    the hub on my rain commuter, and had the same problem.

    The Rholoff has a huge boom to handle the rotation (internal hubs tend
    to rotate backwards when force is applied in low gears). That is one
    thing to be sure to have. I know it is a lot of money, but anything
    else will be a huge compromise, in my experience. Or, you could go with
    derailleurs. There is a reason they are still dominant.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems.
    -- Paul Erdos

  17. Anthony DeLorenzo said:

    In terms of gearing I'll likely try something like a 36x20 chainring
    and cog, which would put me in the range of 25 - 80 gear inches
    depending on the hub I use (Shimano or SRAM).

    This will cause problems. Usually these hubs have minimum external gear
    ratios well above this. You are putting much more torque on that hub
    with that little gear than it was designed for.

    Quoted message said:

    Oddly enough, the S-A 8-
    speed hub has direct drive in the lowest gear, which seems to rule it
    out unless I want to use a granny ring up front (I don't).

    That might be to eliminate the counter-rotation problem. If so, it is a
    good idea.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems.
    -- Paul Erdos

  18. landotter who? said:

    On Aug 3, 12:22 pm, Anthony DeLorenzo <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I'm really keen to use an internally-geared hub on a touring bike I am
    building up. I like (need?) to have a strong, non-dished rear wheel
    and I also prefer to not fuss with derailleurs. This will be my only
    multi-geared bike, my other rides are a singlespeed MTB and a fixie
    commuter.


    How 'bout a Sturmey Archer AW? Durable, classic, cheap. Just make sure
    the cable tension is perfect so you don't slip out of gear.

    Trolling for Jobst?
    <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/sturmey-archer.html>

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  19. Anthony DeLorenzo said:
    Kinky Cowboy said:

    By the time you've bought derailleurs with accompanying shifters, got
    a triple chainset instead of a modest single, plus a decent cassette
    and corresponding hub, you're quite a long way towards the cost of a
    Rohloff

    I totally agree if I were starting from scratch, but I have a good
    frame and lots of parts lying around right now for this bike, so the
    cost to build it with a derailleur setup is pretty minimal. Basically,
    no matter what route I go, the only things I need to actually buy are
    a crank, bottom bracket, rear hub and spokes.

    So, I'm looking at the difference between a non-Rohloff internal hub
    and a decent quality rear hub, maybe Shimano XT, which is about $150
    or so. The difference between either option and a Rohloff is more like
    $800-900.

    You CAN NOT take the money with you when you die. Life is too short to
    ride a less than satisfactory bicycle. If the Rohloff is what will suit
    your needs the best, just buy it unless the financial hardship would be
    so great you could not afford to eat.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  20. On Aug 3, 10:22 am, Anthony DeLorenzo <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Hi All,

    I'm really keen to use an internally-geared hub on a touring bike I am
    building up. I like (need?) to have a strong, non-dished rear wheel
    and I also prefer to not fuss with derailleurs. This will be my only
    multi-geared bike, my other rides are a singlespeed MTB and a fixie
    commuter.

    I have been researching various hub models on the internet and I am
    getting the sense that, other than Rohloff, nothing on the market can
    really handle anything other than light duty typical of comfort or
    casual bikes.

    To put this into perspective, I am 6'6", 250+ lbs and, although I ride
    smoothly, can apply a lot of power to the pedals when I want to. Throw
    on some cargo, and my habit of dashing off down the odd fire road or
    stretch of singletrack, and I wonder if one of these hubs could handle
    it.

    At 4-5 times the cost I just can't afford a Rohloff. Are any of the
    current offerings from S-A, Shimano or SRAM suitable for my needs, or
    should I stick to a derailleur and keep saving for a Rohloff in the
    future?

    Regards,
    Anthony

    I'm the happy owner of a Nexus8 that I used to convert my first
    mountain bike (a 1985 Peugeot Orient Express, purchased when I was in
    the 7th grade) to a cruiser, with North Road bars, a sprung Brooks
    saddle, cork grips and a Wald basket up front. I weigh 230, but
    usually ride with a backpack with work clothes and a 2L camelbak. I've
    got it geared 42-19 for something like a 35-85" range. I've got a few
    steep climbs each way on my commute, and my only complaint is its
    weight. When stringing up the wheel, that is. My arm got tired holding
    the thing up.

    For your purposes, a Nexus8 will work if you don't mind spinning out
    your big gear on downhills pretty early, or if you don't need a low-
    low gear. For a wider gear range, then either get a Rohloff, or use a
    double crank, two masterlinks and a spare bit of chain. The latter
    option is cheaper, but obviously, you have to stop and get your hands
    dirty to switch ranges, and chainline gets trickier.

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