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Roberto The [censored]

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Road Cycling
Published
7 June 2004
Last activity
9 June 2004
Original author
B. Lafferty
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  1. Hi Roberto!

    Nice to learn from Cycling News that you're a follower of rbr.
    Speaking about the numerous defamatory articles that have being posted about
    him in Internet newsgroups, Gaggioli retorted by saying, "I feel sorry for
    them because I am going to be there a longer time than them. I think these
    people there don't have any life. That is why they are posting there."

    It's too bad criminal charges weren't filed against you. I'd love to
    see the juror's faces as you present your defense:

    "I don't know if it was for defending myself or what, I just grabbed a
    two-by-four," Gaggioli recalled in an interview with Cyclingnews' Mark
    Zalewski on the eve of the USPRO Championships. "Everyone knows about it,
    I'm not lying - I admitted it. I grabbed it to scare him. I hit the bike. I
    didn't try to hurt him. If I wanted to hurt him I would hurt in hin the
    race, you know? That's the easy way. We were two people involved in the
    incident, and I'm the only one to pay for it."

    Some free advice for you Roberto. You might want to get an attorney to
    explain to you the law of assault and self-defense. Be certain to ask the
    attorney if the retreat rule applies in the jusrisdiction in question.

  2. Classic case of denial. He's probably working how his personal
    explanation of the Transit of Venus as the Sun obviously revolves around
    HIM.

    B. Lafferty said:

    Hi Roberto!

    Nice to learn from Cycling News that you're a follower of rbr.
    Speaking about the numerous defamatory articles that have being posted about
    him in Internet newsgroups, Gaggioli retorted by saying, "I feel sorry for
    them because I am going to be there a longer time than them. I think these
    people there don't have any life. That is why they are posting there."

    It's too bad criminal charges weren't filed against you. I'd love to
    see the juror's faces as you present your defense:

    "I don't know if it was for defending myself or what, I just grabbed a
    two-by-four," Gaggioli recalled in an interview with Cyclingnews' Mark
    Zalewski on the eve of the USPRO Championships. "Everyone knows about it,
    I'm not lying - I admitted it. I grabbed it to scare him. I hit the bike. I
    didn't try to hurt him. If I wanted to hurt him I would hurt in hin the
    race, you know? That's the easy way. We were two people involved in the
    incident, and I'm the only one to pay for it."

    Some free advice for you Roberto. You might want to get an attorney to
    explain to you the law of assault and self-defense. Be certain to ask the
    attorney if the retreat rule applies in the jusrisdiction in question.

  3. "Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Classic case of denial. He's probably working how his personal
    explanation of the Transit of Venus as the Sun obviously revolves around
    HIM.

    Why did your comment immediately cause my mind to dredge up Marcus Aurelius'
    explanation for how prostitutes prevent conception; that is, by writhing
    during sex. I'm going to get another cup of coffee.

  4. Fine bit of journalism by CN. "Don't tell; show!"

    Kirby.

    "Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Classic case of denial. He's probably working how his personal
    explanation of the Transit of Venus as the Sun obviously revolves around
    HIM.

    B. Lafferty said:

    Hi Roberto!

    Nice to learn from Cycling News that you're a follower of rbr.
    Speaking about the numerous defamatory articles that have being posted about
    him in Internet newsgroups, Gaggioli retorted by saying, "I feel sorry for
    them because I am going to be there a longer time than them. I think these
    people there don't have any life. That is why they are posting there."

    It's too bad criminal charges weren't filed against you. I'd love to
    see the juror's faces as you present your defense:

    "I don't know if it was for defending myself or what, I just grabbed a
    two-by-four," Gaggioli recalled in an interview with Cyclingnews' Mark


    [Snip]

  5. B. Lafferty said:

    "Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Classic case of denial. He's probably working how his personal
    explanation of the Transit of Venus as the Sun obviously revolves around
    HIM.

    Why did your comment immediately cause my mind to dredge up Marcus Aurelius'
    explanation for how prostitutes prevent conception; that is, by writhing
    during sex. I'm going to get another cup of coffee.

    Less Bailey's this time.

  6. The fine article on VN, under Mr. Rogers Neighborhood had an outstanding
    picture of Sundt's bike. It's quite a stretch to imagine Johnny trying
    to club Roberto with his bike, but fortunately for Roberto he had that
    2x4 handy to fend the bike off with. (for more of this style of combat
    see Troy)

    Kirby Krieger said:

    Fine bit of journalism by CN. "Don't tell; show!"

    Kirby.

    "Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Classic case of denial. He's probably working how his personal
    explanation of the Transit of Venus as the Sun obviously revolves around
    HIM.

    B. Lafferty said:

    Hi Roberto!

    Nice to learn from Cycling News that you're a follower of rbr.
    Speaking about the numerous defamatory articles that have being posted about
    him in Internet newsgroups, Gaggioli retorted by saying, "I feel sorry for
    them because I am going to be there a longer time than them. I think these
    people there don't have any life. That is why they are posting there."

    It's too bad criminal charges weren't filed against you. I'd love to
    see the juror's faces as you present your defense:

    "I don't know if it was for defending myself or what, I just grabbed a
    two-by-four," Gaggioli recalled in an interview with Cyclingnews' Mark

    [Snip]

  7. "Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    B. Lafferty said:

    "Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Classic case of denial. He's probably working how his personal
    explanation of the Transit of Venus as the Sun obviously revolves around
    HIM.

    Why did your comment immediately cause my mind to dredge up Marcus


    Aurelius'

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    explanation for how prostitutes prevent conception; that is, by writhing
    during sex. I'm going to get another cup of coffee.

    Less Bailey's this time.


    Good advice. :-)

  8. In article <[email hidden]>, B.

    Lafferty said:

    Hi Roberto!

    Nice to learn from Cycling News that you're a follower of rbr.
    Speaking about the numerous defamatory articles that have being posted about
    him in Internet newsgroups, Gaggioli retorted by saying, "I feel sorry for
    them because I am going to be there a longer time than them. I think these
    people there don't have any life. That is why they are posting there."

    It's too bad criminal charges weren't filed against you. I'd love to
    see the juror's faces as you present your defense:

    "I don't know if it was for defending myself or what, I just grabbed a
    two-by-four," Gaggioli recalled in an interview with Cyclingnews' Mark
    Zalewski on the eve of the USPRO Championships. "Everyone knows about it,
    I'm not lying - I admitted it. I grabbed it to scare him. I hit the bike. I
    didn't try to hurt him. If I wanted to hurt him I would hurt in hin the
    race, you know? That's the easy way. We were two people involved in the
    incident, and I'm the only one to pay for it."

    I've done some races with him and I haven't always liked how he handled
    himself among amateur racers during the finales but otherwise he's been
    fine and we've exchanged a joke or two during races once in awhile. I
    don't agree with going after somebody with a 2 x 4 but what would
    others suggest is a better means of stopping the behavior of the other
    rider(s) that got him that mad in the first place? Should he retaliate
    DURING the race when other (innocent) riders could have been harmed by
    doing so? And don't suggest he shouldn't retaliate because from what
    I've read retailiation of some kind was in order. It's also worth
    noting that the guy Roberto went after saw the whole thing for what it
    really was and both riders agreed later that they were done with it and
    should move on.

    So Brian et al, next time somebody endangers you by intentionally
    slamming you into a curb on the last lap whatcha gonna do about it?
    ....And when y'all answer try to think like a bike racer who makes his
    living on a bike and needs to reach a mutual understanding in a lot
    less time and money than it would take with lawyers involved.

    -WG

  9. warren said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, B.

    Lafferty said:

    Hi Roberto!

    Nice to learn from Cycling News that you're a follower of rbr.
    Speaking about the numerous defamatory articles that have being posted about
    him in Internet newsgroups, Gaggioli retorted by saying, "I feel sorry for
    them because I am going to be there a longer time than them. I think these
    people there don't have any life. That is why they are posting there."

    It's too bad criminal charges weren't filed against you. I'd love to
    see the juror's faces as you present your defense:

    "I don't know if it was for defending myself or what, I just grabbed a
    two-by-four," Gaggioli recalled in an interview with Cyclingnews' Mark
    Zalewski on the eve of the USPRO Championships. "Everyone knows about it,
    I'm not lying - I admitted it. I grabbed it to scare him. I hit the bike. I
    didn't try to hurt him. If I wanted to hurt him I would hurt in hin the
    race, you know? That's the easy way. We were two people involved in the
    incident, and I'm the only one to pay for it."

    I've done some races with him and I haven't always liked how he handled
    himself among amateur racers during the finales but otherwise he's been
    fine and we've exchanged a joke or two during races once in awhile. I
    don't agree with going after somebody with a 2 x 4 but what would
    others suggest is a better means of stopping the behavior of the other
    rider(s) that got him that mad in the first place? Should he retaliate
    DURING the race when other (innocent) riders could have been harmed by
    doing so? And don't suggest he shouldn't retaliate because from what
    I've read retailiation of some kind was in order. It's also worth
    noting that the guy Roberto went after saw the whole thing for what it
    really was and both riders agreed later that they were done with it and
    should move on.

    So Brian et al, next time somebody endangers you by intentionally
    slamming you into a curb on the last lap whatcha gonna do about it?
    ...And when y'all answer try to think like a bike racer who makes his
    living on a bike and needs to reach a mutual understanding in a lot
    less time and money than it would take with lawyers involved.

    -WG

    Sounds a little like our foreign policy.

    Steve

    --
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
    http://www.dentaltwins.com
    Brooklyn, NY

  10. "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, B.

    Lafferty said:

    Hi Roberto!

    Nice to learn from Cycling News that you're a follower of rbr.
    Speaking about the numerous defamatory articles that have being posted


    about

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    him in Internet newsgroups, Gaggioli retorted by saying, "I feel sorry


    for

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    them because I am going to be there a longer time than them. I think


    these

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    people there don't have any life. That is why they are posting there."

    It's too bad criminal charges weren't filed against you. I'd love


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    see the juror's faces as you present your defense:

    "I don't know if it was for defending myself or what, I just grabbed a
    two-by-four," Gaggioli recalled in an interview with Cyclingnews' Mark
    Zalewski on the eve of the USPRO Championships. "Everyone knows about


    it,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'm not lying - I admitted it. I grabbed it to scare him. I hit the


    bike. I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    didn't try to hurt him. If I wanted to hurt him I would hurt in hin the
    race, you know? That's the easy way. We were two people involved in the
    incident, and I'm the only one to pay for it."

    I've done some races with him and I haven't always liked how he handled
    himself among amateur racers during the finales but otherwise he's been
    fine and we've exchanged a joke or two during races once in awhile. I
    don't agree with going after somebody with a 2 x 4 but what would
    others suggest is a better means of stopping the behavior of the other
    rider(s) that got him that mad in the first place? Should he retaliate
    DURING the race when other (innocent) riders could have been harmed by
    doing so? And don't suggest he shouldn't retaliate because from what
    I've read retailiation of some kind was in order. It's also worth
    noting that the guy Roberto went after saw the whole thing for what it
    really was and both riders agreed later that they were done with it and
    should move on.

    So Brian et al, next time somebody endangers you by intentionally
    slamming you into a curb on the last lap whatcha gonna do about it?
    ...And when y'all answer try to think like a bike racer who makes his
    living on a bike and needs to reach a mutual understanding in a lot
    less time and money than it would take with lawyers involved.

    How I would handle it isn't the issue. What Roberto did was to apparently
    perpetrate an assault with a deadly weapon. It appears from reports of the
    incident that he was under no immediate threat requiring the use of such
    force to defend himself. Presumably, he had the ability to withdraw from
    the confrontation thereby negating any potential reliance he might have had
    to the legal defense of self-defense.

  11. I guess Roberto forgot about this:

    "I saw him get off his bike, and I thought he wanted to have a chat,"
    Sundt said. "But he took apart one of the police barriers and had this
    two-by-four in his hands. It is a really physical sport, but I didn't
    know it was going to go to that degree. I'd already set my bike down,
    because I thought maybe he wanted to square up. At the last minute I
    picked up my bike and blocked [the two-by-four]."

    Gaggioli denied the two-by-four tale. "Those are just rumors,"
    Gaggioli said. "It's not true." When asked how he accounted for the
    dent in Sundt's frame, Gaggioli answered, "I don't know. Maybe he
    crashed."

    But Sundt and Rice say five witnesses signed statements to USA Cycling
    attesting that Gaggioli had indeed assaulted Sundt with a piece of
    wood.

    "There are a bunch of witnesses," Rice said. "It's not like it was in
    some back alley. There were a couple of guys that saw the whole
    thing."

    That there exist a handful of signed statements is one of the few
    facts USCF Southeast regional coordinator George Heagerty would
    confirm.

    Quoted message said:

    "I don't know if it was for defending myself or what, I just grabbed a
    two-by-four," Gaggioli recalled in an interview with Cyclingnews' Mark
    Zalewski on the eve of the USPRO Championships. "Everyone knows about it,
    I'm not lying - I admitted it. I grabbed it to scare him. I hit the bike. I
    didn't try to hurt him. If I wanted to hurt him I would hurt in hin the
    race, you know? That's the easy way. We were two people involved in the
    incident, and I'm the only one to pay for it."

    Some free advice for you Roberto. You might want to get an attorney to
    explain to you the law of assault and self-defense. Be certain to ask the
    attorney if the retreat rule applies in the jusrisdiction in question.

  12. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, B.

    Lafferty said:

    Hi Roberto!

    Nice to learn from Cycling News that you're a follower of rbr.
    Speaking about the numerous defamatory articles that have being posted


    about

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    him in Internet newsgroups, Gaggioli retorted by saying, "I feel sorry


    for

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    them because I am going to be there a longer time than them. I think


    these

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    people there don't have any life. That is why they are posting there."

    It's too bad criminal charges weren't filed against you. I'd love


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    see the juror's faces as you present your defense:

    "I don't know if it was for defending myself or what, I just grabbed a
    two-by-four," Gaggioli recalled in an interview with Cyclingnews' Mark
    Zalewski on the eve of the USPRO Championships. "Everyone knows about


    it,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'm not lying - I admitted it. I grabbed it to scare him. I hit the


    bike. I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    didn't try to hurt him. If I wanted to hurt him I would hurt in hin


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    race, you know? That's the easy way. We were two people involved in


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    incident, and I'm the only one to pay for it."

    I've done some races with him and I haven't always liked how he handled
    himself among amateur racers during the finales but otherwise he's been
    fine and we've exchanged a joke or two during races once in awhile. I
    don't agree with going after somebody with a 2 x 4 but what would
    others suggest is a better means of stopping the behavior of the other
    rider(s) that got him that mad in the first place? Should he retaliate
    DURING the race when other (innocent) riders could have been harmed by
    doing so? And don't suggest he shouldn't retaliate because from what
    I've read retailiation of some kind was in order. It's also worth
    noting that the guy Roberto went after saw the whole thing for what it
    really was and both riders agreed later that they were done with it and
    should move on.

    So Brian et al, next time somebody endangers you by intentionally
    slamming you into a curb on the last lap whatcha gonna do about it?
    ...And when y'all answer try to think like a bike racer who makes his
    living on a bike and needs to reach a mutual understanding in a lot
    less time and money than it would take with lawyers involved.

    How I would handle it isn't the issue. What Roberto did was to apparently
    perpetrate an assault with a deadly weapon. It appears from reports of the
    incident that he was under no immediate threat requiring the use of such
    force to defend himself. Presumably, he had the ability to withdraw from
    the confrontation thereby negating any potential reliance he might have


    had

    Quoted message said:

    to the legal defense of self-defense.

    Warren seems to be saying that Gag' *had to* do "something".

    I will respond to that. Gag' should have lodged a complaint with the
    officials and with the local jurisdiction if any crimes were committed. That
    is how one is supposed to respond to criminal aggression. Instead he chose
    to escalate the situation (with a weapon). He had an infinite number of
    choices without resorting to crime.

  13. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Classic case of denial. He's probably working how his personal
    explanation of the Transit of Venus as the Sun obviously revolves around
    HIM.

    Why did your comment immediately cause my mind to dredge up Marcus Aurelius'
    explanation for how prostitutes prevent conception; that is, by writhing
    during sex. I'm going to get another cup of coffee.

    Have a quote or cite on that one?

    [email hidden]

  14. why did that greasy haired hasbeen tell velonews that he had no idea
    how John Sundt's bike got dented and that maybe it happened by
    crashing in the race?????

    what a jerk off.

    his wife is cute for a bike racer, which really isnt saying much

  15. In article <[email hidden]>, B.

    Lafferty said:

    "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, B.

    Lafferty said:

    Hi Roberto!

    Nice to learn from Cycling News that you're a follower of rbr.
    Speaking about the numerous defamatory articles that have being posted


    about

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    him in Internet newsgroups, Gaggioli retorted by saying, "I feel sorry


    for

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    them because I am going to be there a longer time than them. I think


    these

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    people there don't have any life. That is why they are posting there."

    It's too bad criminal charges weren't filed against you. I'd love


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    see the juror's faces as you present your defense:

    "I don't know if it was for defending myself or what, I just grabbed a
    two-by-four," Gaggioli recalled in an interview with Cyclingnews' Mark
    Zalewski on the eve of the USPRO Championships. "Everyone knows about


    it,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'm not lying - I admitted it. I grabbed it to scare him. I hit the


    bike. I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    didn't try to hurt him. If I wanted to hurt him I would hurt in hin the
    race, you know? That's the easy way. We were two people involved in the
    incident, and I'm the only one to pay for it."

    I've done some races with him and I haven't always liked how he handled
    himself among amateur racers during the finales but otherwise he's been
    fine and we've exchanged a joke or two during races once in awhile. I
    don't agree with going after somebody with a 2 x 4 but what would
    others suggest is a better means of stopping the behavior of the other
    rider(s) that got him that mad in the first place? Should he retaliate
    DURING the race when other (innocent) riders could have been harmed by
    doing so? And don't suggest he shouldn't retaliate because from what
    I've read retailiation of some kind was in order. It's also worth
    noting that the guy Roberto went after saw the whole thing for what it
    really was and both riders agreed later that they were done with it and
    should move on.

    So Brian et al, next time somebody endangers you by intentionally
    slamming you into a curb on the last lap whatcha gonna do about it?
    ...And when y'all answer try to think like a bike racer who makes his
    living on a bike and needs to reach a mutual understanding in a lot
    less time and money than it would take with lawyers involved.

    How I would handle it isn't the issue. What Roberto did was to apparently
    perpetrate an assault with a deadly weapon. It appears from reports of the
    incident that he was under no immediate threat requiring the use of such
    force to defend himself. Presumably, he had the ability to withdraw from
    the confrontation thereby negating any potential reliance he might have had
    to the legal defense of self-defense.

    I agree mostly with what you've said but you didn't offer an
    alternative way for Gaggioli to stop Sundt's behavior. It really isn't
    an issue of self defense. It's an issue among professional bike racers
    establishing what is tolerable and what is not. Doing it in the parking
    lot is safer for the innocent riders among them during a race.

    -WG

  16. In article <[email hidden]>, Chris

    Quoted message said:

    Warren seems to be saying that Gag' *had to* do "something".

    Yes he did, otherwise Sundt's behavior probably would have continued.

    Quoted message said:


    I will respond to that. Gag' should have lodged a complaint with the
    officials and with the local jurisdiction if any crimes were committed. That
    is how one is supposed to respond to criminal aggression.

    That hardly even works in Hockey, nevermind a little bike race. Do you
    know of any examples where your method proved effective?

    It's worth noting that the riders were okay with mutual apologies but
    others outside the arena are not.

    I see it as establishing turf within the peloton. Sundt was trying to
    do that and Gagioli was responding. (It could have been done in other
    ways) As Eddy B said in his book, sometimes you have to crash instead
    of backing off because if you always back off the other riders will
    know they can push you around.

    Last year a guy who is pretty well known shoved me out of his way
    during a race and on the next lap I gave his bars a tap with my knee
    during a turn. He got the message and there was no more problem.

    -WG

  17. In article <[email hidden]>, Danny Callen

    Quoted message said:

    "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I agree mostly with what you've said but you didn't offer an
    alternative way for Gaggioli to stop Sundt's behavior. It really isn't
    an issue of self defense. It's an issue among professional bike racers
    establishing what is tolerable and what is not. Doing it in the parking
    lot is safer for the innocent riders among them during a race.

    -WG

    Okay, now I'm catchin' up. I understand your argument and agree that an
    official would do little other than maybe disqualify Sundt for his actions
    (and by the way that is only if more than one rider capitulated the actions
    of Sundt). I also understand how easy it is to fly off the handle in such a
    situation and think two things. One, it's a real [censored] move in my opinion to
    pick up a two by four. I've seen Johnny Sundt and I think I [censored] bigger than
    him.

    I'd say Roberto is about 5'6" tall and maybe 150 pounds.

    Quoted message said:

    Did Roberto really need a 2x4 to make his point?

    You're forgetting that Sundt came towards Roberto after a previous race
    and told Roberto he wanted to punch him right there and Roberto says he
    told Sundt he didn't want to fight him, then turned his back and rode
    away. The next time Sundt did this to/with Gaggioli is when Roberto
    found the nearby 2x4.

    Quoted message said:

    Secondly, I have to
    assume Roberto's reputation probably exacerbated the situation. What would I
    have done? The same thing I've done in the past. Confront the rider without
    a "weapon"

    Supposedly it was Sundt who came to Gaggioli. I could be wrong but it
    sounded like when Gaggioli saw Sundt coming toward him in a very
    threatening manner (for a second time in successive races) Gaggioli
    grabbed a 2x4 from a nearby crowd barrier. I don't think we know
    whether Gaggioli took a swing to defend himself from Sundt's advance or
    if Gaggioli went towards Sundt and swung at him. But we do know that
    both riders have agreed they did something wrong and they apologized to
    each other at the next opportunity (next race).

    Quoted message said:

    I recognize your point but Roberto's actions make whatever Johnny did in
    the race a moot point.

    I think getting intentionally shoved off the road at high speed is not
    a moot point.

    -WG

  18. warren said:

    You're forgetting that Sundt came towards Roberto after a previous race
    and told Roberto he wanted to punch him right there and Roberto says he
    told Sundt he didn't want to fight him, then turned his back and rode
    away. The next time Sundt did this to/with Gaggioli is when Roberto
    found the nearby 2x4.

    So, Roberto doesn't really control Roberto, does he? Sundt does. Sundt
    FORCED Gag to pick up the 2x4. And now everyone's blaming Roberto for
    Sundt's action of forcing Roberto to attack Sundt.

    I saw something like this in a Star Trek episode once. There was this
    planet full of people with psychokinetic powers and Spock was like "No,
    no, don't make me kiss Uhura!" So I understand exactly what you're
    talking about. Does Sundt wear a gold leafy laurel thing on his head?

    --

    --------------------

    Remove CLOTHES to reply

  19. In article <Svbxc.56303$3x.23387@attbi_s54>, Tim Lines

    Quoted message said:
    warren said:

    You're forgetting that Sundt came towards Roberto after a previous race
    and told Roberto he wanted to punch him right there and Roberto says he
    told Sundt he didn't want to fight him, then turned his back and rode
    away. The next time Sundt did this to/with Gaggioli is when Roberto
    found the nearby 2x4.

    So, Roberto doesn't really control Roberto, does he? Sundt does. Sundt
    FORCED Gag to pick up the 2x4. And now everyone's blaming Roberto for
    Sundt's action of forcing Roberto to attack Sundt.

    You were there and saw what happened?

    -WG

  20. Tim Lines said:
    warren said:

    You're forgetting that Sundt came towards Roberto after a previous race
    and told Roberto he wanted to punch him right there and Roberto says he
    told Sundt he didn't want to fight him, then turned his back and rode
    away. The next time Sundt did this to/with Gaggioli is when Roberto
    found the nearby 2x4.

    So, Roberto doesn't really control Roberto, does he? Sundt does. Sundt
    FORCED Gag to pick up the 2x4. And now everyone's blaming Roberto for
    Sundt's action of forcing Roberto to attack Sundt.

    'FORCED' is one of those rationalizations people come up with, which
    wouldn't carry any weight when exposed for its own folly before rational
    minds. Gag did what Gag did, he's nobody's puppet and he should have
    known better as he's no child.

    Gag made at least four errors, did you spot them?

    1. He failed to take the issue up with race officials, prefering to take
    matters into his own hands.
    2. He assaulted someone with a weapon with intent to cause bodily harm.
    3. He failed to consider the consequences his actions would have on his
    team.
    4. With his extremely poor choice of actions and perjury he's tarnishing
    the names of his sponsors.

    He's quoted recently as saying he's still going to manage the team, even
    as the suspension bars that. As a rider and the team manager he's left
    his team and his team's sponsors in an ugly predicament. No sponsor
    wants to be associated with a thug (unless that thug happens to be
    Martha Stewart, her [censored] is selling better than before her conviction,
    maybe she should get together with Sean 'Puffy' Coombs.) There's a very
    sound reason why police tell drivers to just 'walk away' from offenses
    of other drivers, rather than go super nova into road rage. What seems
    like a good idea when you're white hot may seem like a very poor choice
    when you're handcuffed and sitting in the back of a police car or trying
    to convince a judge and 12 rational jurors the devil made you do it.

    Quoted message said:

    I saw something like this in a Star Trek episode once. There was this
    planet full of people with psychokinetic powers and Spock was like "No,
    no, don't make me kiss Uhura!" So I understand exactly what you're
    talking about. Does Sundt wear a gold leafy laurel thing on his head?

    You should either follow cycling or be a trekkie, don't mix the two.

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