Robbing gits.

Simon Mason said:

One package had the wheels and the other the rest of the bike. Customs are
charging me 77 quid to release the wheels and another 144 quid for the bike.
Do they just dream up these figures or something? Sheesh!

Well, what I think both parts would be 15% duty from USA, see:

<URL:
http://europa.eu.int/comm/taxation_customs/dds/cgi-bin/tarduty?ProdLine=80&Type=0&Action=1&Lang=EN&SimDate=20051126&YesNo=1&Indent=-1&Flag=1&Test=tarduty&Periodic=0&Download=0&Taric=8712001090&Country=US%2F0400&Day=26&Month=11&Year=2005

Quoted message said:

(my code for wheels may not be accurate of course) and similarly for
frame.

Jim.

Simon Mason said:

Bought this bike off ebay from a seller in the USA who shipped it in two
bits.

http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/ebay1.htm

One package had the wheels and the other the rest of the bike. Customs are
charging me 77 quid to release the wheels and another 144 quid for the bike.
Do they just dream up these figures or something? Sheesh!

Not robbing gits but just asking you to pay import duty and VAT like
everyone else. Should be about 34% of the price + shipping IIRC which
would look about right for that bike and wheels. Its been discussed
here often enough it shouldn't have come as a surprise.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not robbing gits but just asking you to pay import duty and VAT like
everyone else. Should be about 34% of the price + shipping IIRC which
would look about right for that bike and wheels. Its been discussed here
often enough it shouldn't have come as a surprise.

Yes, I should be happy to pay up - I mean it's not as if I don't pay enough
already - I mean, I even have to pay them 30 quid to open the boxes! It
would appear to be the luck of the draw though, some shipments make it
through unopened and on some you get stung :-(

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Simon Mason said:

Yes, I should be happy to pay up - I mean it's not as if I don't pay enough
already - I mean, I even have to pay them 30 quid to open the boxes! It
would appear to be the luck of the draw though, some shipments make it
through unopened and on some you get stung :-(

Being happy doesn't come into it. I would love not to pay income tax or
capital gains tax or VAT or any of the rest of them on the basis I pay
enough already but I do because I have to and I realise its what goes
towards paying for our schools, hospitals, roads etc etc. And it is
luck of the draw. On some you pay what is due and on some you get a
bonus of being let off.

As I say importing from the US has been discussed enough here that you
can't have not known you were liable to pay duty and tax on the
shipment. The fact that you hoped to get away with it and didn't
shouldn't come as a surprise although it was may have been a disappointment

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

"Jim Ley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

One package had the wheels and the other the rest of the bike. Customs are
charging me 77 quid to release the wheels and another 144 quid for the
bike.
Do they just dream up these figures or something? Sheesh!

Well, what I think both parts would be 15% duty from USA, see:

The charges are obviously wrong though. Even taking the parts as new, which
they aren't, we get this.

Wheelset Mavic Ksyrium Elite + tyres UKP 320

Frame UKP 1000
Fork + headset UKP 120
Groupset UKP 700
Saddle UKP 70
Bars + stem UKP 50

Total UKP 1940

So how can they charge 77 quid for the wheels and 144 for the rest of the
bike when the wheels only make up less than 15% of the total cost? They must
dream up some figure hoping you won't question it.

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Simon Mason said:

"Jim Ley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

One package had the wheels and the other the rest of the bike. Customs are
charging me 77 quid to release the wheels and another 144 quid for the
bike.
Do they just dream up these figures or something? Sheesh!

Well, what I think both parts would be 15% duty from USA, see:

The charges are obviously wrong though. Even taking the parts as new, which
they aren't, we get this.

Wheelset Mavic Ksyrium Elite + tyres UKP 320

Frame UKP 1000
Fork + headset UKP 120
Groupset UKP 700
Saddle UKP 70
Bars + stem UKP 50

Total UKP 1940

So how can they charge 77 quid for the wheels and 144 for the rest of the
bike when the wheels only make up less than 15% of the total cost? They must
dream up some figure hoping you won't question it.

We have a long history of importing stuff at work - small business, does
a lot of work overseas.

They do indeed make up the figures. If you do enough importing, it's
generally not worth makeing mach of a fuss, unless it's blatantly wrong
against your favour, becuase overall you win some and you lose some.

OK, so I guess someone, somehwere is sitting down calculating something
and arriving at the figure they charge you, but it is very very
difficult to get any sort of justification for charges if you follow it
up. That gives it the overall appearance of being made up.

Of course, you're only importing one thing, so understandably you want
it to be correct. Query it, and be persistent. AFAIK you should only
pay duty on the actual amount you paid for the goods, not their
preceived value, but i could be wrong - it's not me who actually deals
with customs issues at work.

--
Nobby

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason wrote:

Quoted message said:

Being happy doesn't come into it. I would love not to pay income tax or
capital gains tax or VAT or any of the rest of them on the basis I pay
enough already but I do because I have to and I realise its what goes
towards paying for our schools, hospitals, roads etc etc. And it is luck
of the draw. On some you pay what is due and on some you get a bonus of
being let off.

What did I get for my money when I paid "stamp duty" on my house? Nothing!
Not even a bit of paper to say that I had paid it. It's just another way of
stealing more of your money off you.

When I used to buy CDs direct from Holland, I got a note from customs who
wanted to charge me VAT even though I had paid VAT in a EU state. I was
interested to see in their literature that if you had paid VAT at say 14% in
Holland and the rate here is 17.5% you had to pay the 3.5% difference.
However if the rate was 20% in Holland did you get a rebate? No chance.

Anyway, they got nothing off me in the end as I had paid it in Holland, but
if I hadn't challenged it they would have happily taken my money away. I am
now asking them how they came to the conclusion that my wheels make up half
the cost of my bike, or did they just pluck a number out of thin air?

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Being happy doesn't come into it. I would love not to pay income tax or
capital gains tax or VAT or any of the rest of them on the basis I pay
enough already but I do because I have to and I realise its what goes
towards paying for our schools, hospitals, roads etc etc.

Roads, eh? You're obviously a cuckoo here as we all know cyclists contribute
nowt to roads!

"Nobody Here" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:438888bd$0$1463$ed2619ec@ptn-

Quoted message said:

Of course, you're only importing one thing, so understandably you want
it to be correct. Query it, and be persistent. AFAIK you should only
pay duty on the actual amount you paid for the goods, not their
preceived value, but i could be wrong - it's not me who actually deals
with customs issues at work.

Thanks - trouble is I've only got 21 days and then it gets sent back. Might
be cheaper to pay up if they start employing delaying tactics.
Cheers!

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Simon Mason said:

The charges are obviously wrong though. Even taking the parts as new, which
they aren't, we get this.

Wheelset Mavic Ksyrium Elite + tyres UKP 320

Frame UKP 1000
Fork + headset UKP 120
Groupset UKP 700
Saddle UKP 70
Bars + stem UKP 50

Total UKP 1940

So how can they charge 77 quid for the wheels and 144 for the rest of the
bike when the wheels only make up less than 15% of the total cost? They must
dream up some figure hoping you won't question it.

I don't know what Krysium Elites cost in the US but say $320 using the
usual rule of thumb would put them at $320 x .34 duty and VAT or £64.
Add duty and VAT on the shipping and you are definitely in the right
ballpark.

For the frame etc you got let off half the duty and VAT so should be
pleased although I hope you didn't pay that as Biketrax are doing the
frame, fork and stem for £650.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Simon Mason said:

What did I get for my money when I paid "stamp duty" on my house?

Schools, hospitals, roads, etc.

d.

Peter B said:

Roads, eh? You're obviously a cuckoo here as we all know cyclists contribute
nowt to roads!

Nowt except winding up the motorists who own the bloody things!

d.

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For the frame etc you got let off half the duty and VAT so should be
pleased although I hope you didn't pay that as Biketrax are doing the
frame, fork and stem for £650.

The frame was £1000 when it came out, but obviously gets discounted as the
new designs come out. I was trying to see how they came up with a price.

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Simon Mason said:

What did I get for my money when I paid "stamp duty" on my house? Nothing!
Not even a bit of paper to say that I had paid it. It's just another way of
stealing more of your money off you.

You are starting to sound like a motorist complaining about VED and fuel
duty. Yes its tax and its not hypothecated so it goes into the general
pot that pays for all the things we expect like a health service and
education and transport and defence and....... Everyone happily elected
the current government three times on a manifesto of spending more on
such things and the money to pay for it has to be collected from us in
one way or another.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Simon Mason said:

Thanks - trouble is I've only got 21 days and then it gets sent back. Might
be cheaper to pay up if they start employing delaying tactics.

Have they linked the two parcels together or are they two independent
requests? You should be able to take the applicable duty rate and 17.5%
VAT and apply it to the price you paid plus the cost of shipping. Do
the calculation, send it to them with a cheque and evidence of the price
paid such as an e-bay print out and they should accept it. If the two
parcels are linked they will be treating them as a complete bicycle and
tax accordingly. If not you may be able to get the wheels through as
bicycle components which attract a lower duty rate although I doubt the
frame etc will be treated as such. And yes Customs & Revenue is one of
those places where it is up to you to prove otherwise.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Everyone happily elected

Quoted message said:

the current government three times on a manifesto of spending more on such
things and the money to pay for it has to be collected from us in one way
or another.

I actually wasn't allowed to vote in the last election. I had moved house
over a year earlier and they hadn't got my name on the electoral register in
time. They found me quickly enough to pay the council tax though.

I am *not* moaning about having to pay tax - I merely want to see the
figures behind what I am being asked to pay. If I pay income tax + NI, I can
see how it relates to my salary. If I pay council tax, I get the breakdown
of what it is used for. If I pay a gas bill I can see how many therms I have
used. If I get fined for breaking the law I understand the reasoning behind
that as well.

If I pay VAT on cakes but not Jaffa cakes, I can sort of figure that one
out. I can even get my head around paying full VAT on bottled water, but
what I do object to is someone in an office plucking a figure out of thin
air and expecting me to pay it with no explanation as to how it was
calculated.

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Simon Mason said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For the frame etc you got let off half the duty and VAT so should be
pleased although I hope you didn't pay that as Biketrax are doing the
frame, fork and stem for £650.

The frame was £1000 when it came out, but obviously gets discounted as the
new designs come out. I was trying to see how they came up with a price.

In the absence of information provided by the shipper they would look at
their bicycle catalog - yes they do have one and its very thick and I
have seen it at Heathrow while importing a bike - adjust for any second
hand depreciation and work out the duty and VAT. From your figures it
would seem that they estimated the wheels plus shipping to be worth £200
and the rest about £400. If those are too high then by all means
question them but if they are too low do you want to question them or be
just thankful you got off lightly?

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Simon Mason said:

I am *not* moaning about having to pay tax - I merely want to see the
figures behind what I am being asked to pay.

So what did you pay including shipping? You can estimate it yourself
very easily from there to see if its too high, right or too low. Just
take what you paid and multiply by 34%.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Simon Mason said:

"Jim Ley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Mason said:

One package had the wheels and the other the rest of the bike. Customs are
charging me 77 quid to release the wheels and another 144 quid for the
bike.
Do they just dream up these figures or something? Sheesh!

Well, what I think both parts would be 15% duty from USA, see:

The charges are obviously wrong though. Even taking the parts as new, which
they aren't, we get this.

Wheelset Mavic Ksyrium Elite + tyres UKP 320

so 320*0.15 (for the Duty 15% from the US)
and 320*0.175 (for the VAT)
comes to over 100quid, so 77 suggests they are taking into account the
fact it's not new.

What did the sender say on their custom declaration the value was, are
HMCE arguing this?.

Jim.