Road Pigs

I too have often wished for a helmet camera with the last thirty seconds.
And part of that wish was being accused of denting a w(b)itch's car after
she pinched me into the curb.

"Robert Haston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| I would love to have a camera that kept the last 30 seconds.

On Sat, 15 May 2004 21:29:31 +0100, Ian <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

Would that be a mackerel swimming in the sea? They do that you know? Swim.
You get a false impression of the fish when you buy it in a tin.

Heh! Another example of Mr. Ed's patented RealityDisconnect[tm] at
work :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 15 May 2004 21:29:31 +0100, Ian <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

Would that be a mackerel swimming in the sea? They do that you know?

Swim.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You get a false impression of the fish when you buy it in a tin.

Heh! Another example of Mr. Ed's patented RealityDisconnect[tm] at
work :-)

Guy

Yeah, but these English nuts read me (even if they do not know how to post
my messages). Who the hell else would bother with them if it weren't for me?

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Quoted message said:

I firmly believe that one thing that cyclists
in cars can do for cyclists on bikes is to do
the speed limit on all roadways open to
cyclists.

I feel that we should all do the speedlimit on all roads. And feel
free to use the 'fast' lane [1]. Used to be folks appeared to maybe
be a lil embarrassed that they were speeding, and would slow down to
work their way through a crowded stretch of road. Not now! They
crowd my bumper (to me this is threatening my life with their blunt
instrument), flash their lights and worse. The speedlimits are OUR
laws. The authority to enforce them is derived from us the citizens.
The speeders are, therefore, very much our business. One could even
argue that we as citizens have a responsibility to NOT aid the
speeders in speeding by yielding to them.

It is so bad hereabouts that unles you are willing to break the law
then you cannot even use the fast lane. Unless you drive a large
vehicle as I do (when I cannot avoid it, my Suzuki Samurai is down for
a new suspension install so my tow vehicle is all I have left when I
can't bike).

I have reached a point that I drive where and how I would drive if the
speeders weren't there [2]. If I would normally drive in the left
lane of the freeway, then I do so now, and let the speeders deal with
the inconvenience. If I am trying to merge right to an exit, and the
speeders are coming up too fast on my right, I just move over, let
them work it out. It is their situation, their scoff-law attitude
caused whatever traffic situation we are in. I do not wish to have to
change MY driving in order to accomodate THEIR lack of respect for our
laws, their lack of concern for being a good example to our young
drivers, their self-indulgence that scares our older citizens off of
the road.

[1] In Calif on multi-lane roads, the law doesn't actually require
slower traffic to take the right-most lane. And the 'slower traffic
use turnouts' or 'slower traffic stay right' was never intended for
folks doing the speedlimit.

[2] I should mention that I only do this when driving my 6500 lb
diesel pickup. When driving my lil Suzuki Samurai I am still
obnoxious but take more care for my life.

GeoB

Givers have to set limits because takers
rarely do.
- Irma Kurtz

Quoted message said:

I firmly believe that one thing that cyclists
in cars can do for cyclists on bikes is to do
the speed limit on all roadways open to
cyclists.

I feel that we should all do the speedlimit on all roads. And feel
free to use the 'fast' lane [1]. Used to be folks appeared to maybe
be a lil embarrassed that they were speeding, and would slow down to
work their way through a crowded stretch of road. Not now! They
crowd my bumper (to me this is threatening my life with their blunt
instrument), flash their lights and worse. The speedlimits are OUR
laws. The authority to enforce them is derived from us the citizens.
The speeders are, therefore, very much our business. One could even
argue that we as citizens have a responsibility to NOT aid the
speeders in speeding by yielding to them.

It is so bad hereabouts that unles you are willing to break the law
then you cannot even use the fast lane. Unless you drive a large
vehicle as I do (when I cannot avoid it, my Suzuki Samurai is down for
a new suspension install so my tow vehicle is all I have left when I
can't bike).

I have reached a point that I drive where and how I would drive if the
speeders weren't there [2]. If I would normally drive in the left
lane of the freeway, then I do so now, and let the speeders deal with
the inconvenience. If I am trying to merge right to an exit, and the
speeders are coming up too fast on my right, I just move over, let
them work it out. It is their situation, their scoff-law attitude
caused whatever traffic situation we are in. I do not wish to have to
change MY driving in order to accomodate THEIR lack of respect for our
laws, their lack of concern for being a good example to our young
drivers, their self-indulgence that scares our older citizens off of
the road.

[1] In Calif on multi-lane roads, the law doesn't actually require
slower traffic to take the right-most lane. And the 'slower traffic
use turnouts' or 'slower traffic stay right' was never intended for
folks doing the speedlimit.

[2] I should mention that I only do this when driving my 6500 lb
diesel pickup. When driving my lil Suzuki Samurai I am still
obnoxious but take more care for my life.

GeoB

Givers have to set limits because takers
rarely do.
- Irma Kurtz

"GeoB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I firmly believe that one thing that cyclists
in cars can do for cyclists on bikes is to do
the speed limit on all roadways open to
cyclists.

I feel that we should all do the speedlimit on all roads. And feel
free to use the 'fast' lane [1]. Used to be folks appeared to maybe
be a lil embarrassed that they were speeding, and would slow down to
work their way through a crowded stretch of road. Not now! They
crowd my bumper (to me this is threatening my life with their blunt
instrument), flash their lights and worse. The speedlimits are OUR
laws. The authority to enforce them is derived from us the citizens.
The speeders are, therefore, very much our business. One could even
argue that we as citizens have a responsibility to NOT aid the
speeders in speeding by yielding to them.

It is so bad hereabouts that unles you are willing to break the law
then you cannot even use the fast lane. Unless you drive a large
vehicle as I do (when I cannot avoid it, my Suzuki Samurai is down for
a new suspension install so my tow vehicle is all I have left when I
can't bike).

I have reached a point that I drive where and how I would drive if the
speeders weren't there [2]. If I would normally drive in the left
lane of the freeway, then I do so now, and let the speeders deal with
the inconvenience. If I am trying to merge right to an exit, and the
speeders are coming up too fast on my right, I just move over, let
them work it out. It is their situation, their scoff-law attitude
caused whatever traffic situation we are in. I do not wish to have to
change MY driving in order to accomodate THEIR lack of respect for our
laws, their lack of concern for being a good example to our young
drivers, their self-indulgence that scares our older citizens off of
the road.

[1] In Calif on multi-lane roads, the law doesn't actually require
slower traffic to take the right-most lane. And the 'slower traffic
use turnouts' or 'slower traffic stay right' was never intended for
folks doing the speedlimit.

[2] I should mention that I only do this when driving my 6500 lb
diesel pickup. When driving my lil Suzuki Samurai I am still
obnoxious but take more care for my life.

GeoB

Bravo, GeoB! The paragraph you are responding to at the top of your message
was so incredibly stupid that I couldn't believe that it was actually
written the way it read. I thought the writer had made a mistake and mashed
his words somehow.

Needless to say, I agree with EVERYTHING you have said. We need to get much
tougher on speeders in this country. Everyone is going 85 mph on the
Interstate highways now and there is a carry over from that to other roads
too. Frankly, I liked this country a lot better when the speed limit was 55
mph and everything was moving much slower than now. Speed kills of course
and anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

GeoB said:

Quoted message said:

I firmly believe that one thing that cyclists
in cars can do for cyclists on bikes is to do
the speed limit on all roadways open to
cyclists.

I feel that we should all do the speedlimit on all roads. And feel
free to use the 'fast' lane [1]. Used to be folks appeared to maybe
be a lil embarrassed that they were speeding, and would slow down to
work their way through a crowded stretch of road. Not now! They
crowd my bumper (to me this is threatening my life with their blunt
instrument), flash their lights and worse. The speedlimits are OUR
laws. The authority to enforce them is derived from us the citizens.
The speeders are, therefore, very much our business. One could even
argue that we as citizens have a responsibility to NOT aid the
speeders in speeding by yielding to them.

It is so bad hereabouts that unles you are willing to break the law
then you cannot even use the fast lane. Unless you drive a large
vehicle as I do (when I cannot avoid it, my Suzuki Samurai is down for
a new suspension install so my tow vehicle is all I have left when I
can't bike).

I have reached a point that I drive where and how I would drive if the
speeders weren't there [2]. If I would normally drive in the left
lane of the freeway, then I do so now, and let the speeders deal with
the inconvenience. If I am trying to merge right to an exit, and the
speeders are coming up too fast on my right, I just move over, let
them work it out. It is their situation, their scoff-law attitude
caused whatever traffic situation we are in. I do not wish to have to
change MY driving in order to accomodate THEIR lack of respect for our
laws, their lack of concern for being a good example to our young
drivers, their self-indulgence that scares our older citizens off of
the road.

[1] In Calif on multi-lane roads, the law doesn't actually require
slower traffic to take the right-most lane. And the 'slower traffic
use turnouts' or 'slower traffic stay right' was never intended for
folks doing the speedlimit.

[2] I should mention that I only do this when driving my 6500 lb
diesel pickup. When driving my lil Suzuki Samurai I am still
obnoxious but take more care for my life.

GeoB

Givers have to set limits because takers
rarely do.
- Irma Kurtz

The problem is not speeding per say, but a general breakdown in US
society of considerations of social responsibility and respect for
others. This breakdown is seen in other areas: using the vehicle horn
instead of a doorbell in residential areas, inflicting the "thump-thump
of hip-hop on ones neighbors, etc.

Tailgating behavior is an act of either ignorance/stupidity [1] or
aggression with its implied threat of violence (I will run you off the
road if you do not get out of my way). This is part of the same
inconsiderate and offensive behavior that leads people to buy vehicles
of ever larger size so they will have a perceived advantage in a
collision with another vehicle (and the desire to broadcast that
attitude to others roadway users).

As for why this is occurring, the relative social isolation [2] and
deliberate avoidance of people of a different social class in the US are
certainly partly responsible. The belief of might makes right promoted
by government, the competitive business system, and the popular
entertainment industry must also share a large portion of the blame.

[1] Not taking into account that if the vehicle ahead makes a sudden
stop, a collision will occur.
[2] This is one of the greatest advantages of bicycles over motor
vehicles - communication with other cyclists is easily performed while
riding, so the social restraints are present that disappear when a
person gets in his/her isolation box of a motor vehicle.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

(GeoB) said:

I feel that we should all do the speedlimit on all roads. And feel
free to use the 'fast' lane [1]. Used to be folks appeared to maybe
be a lil embarrassed that they were speeding, and would slow down to
work their way through a crowded stretch of road.

Wouldn't disagree - just wasn't relevant IMO to issue vis-a-vis bikes.
Its been a long time since that I feel any problem with leading a
parade of cars along a back road. The only problem in Maryland is that
sooner or later you get to a multilane roadway and they speed off that
much faster. OTOH, you deal with what you can.

I doubt drivers driving the speed limit can take back the Interstates.
The road I take every morning OTOH is used as a high speed shortcut by
commuters when there are other options available. Maybe a few of them,
one at a time, will decide to take the other options if they find
their speed held to the speed limit on a regular basis.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

GeoB said:

Quoted message said:

I firmly believe that one thing that cyclists
in cars can do for cyclists on bikes is to do
the speed limit on all roadways open to
cyclists.

I feel that we should all do the speedlimit on all roads. And feel
free to use the 'fast' lane [1]. Used to be folks appeared to maybe
be a lil embarrassed that they were speeding, and would slow down to
work their way through a crowded stretch of road. Not now! They
crowd my bumper (to me this is threatening my life with their blunt
instrument), flash their lights and worse. The speedlimits are OUR
laws. The authority to enforce them is derived from us the citizens.
The speeders are, therefore, very much our business. One could even
argue that we as citizens have a responsibility to NOT aid the
speeders in speeding by yielding to them.

It is so bad hereabouts that unles you are willing to break the law
then you cannot even use the fast lane. Unless you drive a large
vehicle as I do (when I cannot avoid it, my Suzuki Samurai is down for
a new suspension install so my tow vehicle is all I have left when I
can't bike).

I have reached a point that I drive where and how I would drive if the
speeders weren't there [2]. If I would normally drive in the left
lane of the freeway, then I do so now, and let the speeders deal with
the inconvenience. If I am trying to merge right to an exit, and the
speeders are coming up too fast on my right, I just move over, let
them work it out. It is their situation, their scoff-law attitude
caused whatever traffic situation we are in. I do not wish to have to
change MY driving in order to accomodate THEIR lack of respect for our
laws, their lack of concern for being a good example to our young
drivers, their self-indulgence that scares our older citizens off of
the road.

[1] In Calif on multi-lane roads, the law doesn't actually require
slower traffic to take the right-most lane. And the 'slower traffic
use turnouts' or 'slower traffic stay right' was never intended for
folks doing the speedlimit.

[2] I should mention that I only do this when driving my 6500 lb
diesel pickup. When driving my lil Suzuki Samurai I am still
obnoxious but take more care for my life.

GeoB

Givers have to set limits because takers
rarely do.
- Irma Kurtz

The problem is not speeding per say, but a general breakdown in US
society of considerations of social responsibility and respect for
others. This breakdown is seen in other areas: using the vehicle horn
instead of a doorbell in residential areas, inflicting the "thump-thump
of hip-hop on ones neighbors, etc.

Tailgating behavior is an act of either ignorance/stupidity [1] or
aggression with its implied threat of violence (I will run you off the
road if you do not get out of my way). This is part of the same
inconsiderate and offensive behavior that leads people to buy vehicles
of ever larger size so they will have a perceived advantage in a
collision with another vehicle (and the desire to broadcast that
attitude to others roadway users).

As for why this is occurring, the relative social isolation [2] and
deliberate avoidance of people of a different social class in the US are
certainly partly responsible. The belief of might makes right promoted
by government, the competitive business system, and the popular
entertainment industry must also share a large portion of the blame.

[1] Not taking into account that if the vehicle ahead makes a sudden
stop, a collision will occur.
[2] This is one of the greatest advantages of bicycles over motor
vehicles - communication with other cyclists is easily performed while
riding, so the social restraints are present that disappear when a
person gets in his/her isolation box of a motor vehicle.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

Bravo, Mr. Sherman! I couldn't agree more with you on everything you say in
your message above (except for some segments of your last paragraph
excluding your confounded footnotes).

Very many of the younger generation coming up today are essentially not only
uncivilized, they are not even socialized. Unfortunately we all come into
this world as savages and we have to be socialized. That is the most
important task of society. Whether of not we ever become civilized is up to
the schools. I fear for the progress of America as I do not see the levels
of sophistication that existed prior to my generation. We are failing in the
essential task of socializing the young. We are raising a generation of
savages. Civilization itself is in peril. We could easily end up like a
third world country where life is savage, brutal - and short!

By the way, I have always associated with people of all classes all of my
life. I learned this very valuable lesson in my youth when I was in the Navy
that people are pretty much the same and there is never any reason for
avoiding anyone. This also comes from small town living where everyone more
or less knows everyone else. These gated communities are an abomination. I
abhor them!

Government and business don't have much to do with our decline, but I do
believe that our entertainment industry has a lot to do with the low level
of culture prevailing in this country. I even have some sympathy for the
Islamic extremists who simply hate our popular entertainment which is being
exported to the rest of the world. But enuf of ye old curmudgeon!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Curtis L. Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(GeoB) said:

I feel that we should all do the speedlimit on all roads. And feel
free to use the 'fast' lane [1]. Used to be folks appeared to maybe
be a lil embarrassed that they were speeding, and would slow down to
work their way through a crowded stretch of road.

Wouldn't disagree - just wasn't relevant IMO to issue vis-a-vis bikes.
Its been a long time since that I feel any problem with leading a
parade of cars along a back road. The only problem in Maryland is that
sooner or later you get to a multilane roadway and they speed off that
much faster. OTOH, you deal with what you can.

I doubt drivers driving the speed limit can take back the Interstates.
The road I take every morning OTOH is used as a high speed shortcut by
commuters when there are other options available. Maybe a few of them,
one at a time, will decide to take the other options if they find
their speed held to the speed limit on a regular basis.

Curtis, the problem is all this damnable commuting that is going on. There
are folks here that are commuting over to Sioux Falls, some 60 miles away
from my town, and they are doing this every day of the week. Of course they
are going faster than hell because everyone hates all this commuting.

Did you ever see the movie The Magnificent Ambersons? That is the way we
should be living. A nice civilized commute on a street car that runs by our
house and will take us downtown to where we work. We are now living in such
a screwed up society that it is not possible to do this kind of civilized
commute anymore.

Sometimes I wish the price of gasoline in this country would become
prohibitively expensive - like maybe $50. a gallon. I think that is what it
will take before we become sensible about how we commute. Right now, it is
total insanity.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I feel that we should all do the speedlimit on all roads. And feel
free to use the 'fast' lane [1]. Used to be folks appeared to maybe
be a lil embarrassed that they were speeding, and would slow down to
work their way through a crowded stretch of road.

Wouldn't disagree - just wasn't relevant IMO to issue vis-a-vis bikes.

Yes, I think understood what you meant. My comment WAS off-topic, but
I wasn't aiming it at you at all. Someone in a following post seems
to have adopted the worst possible interpretation of your original
statement.

GeoB said:

I feel that we should all do the speedlimit on all roads....

If I come upon a downhill on my bike where I can exceed 55-mph, I am
going for it. 😉

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area