Road Fork Conversion: 1' to 1 1/8"?

icebike said:

I have an older Giant TCR Team (anodised black, team graphics - same
as the original ONCE frame) which came stock with Giant's original all-
Carbon integrated fork with a 1" steerer. Is it possible to convert
to fork with a 1 1/8" steerer? Someone claimed it could be done by
using a different Aheadset with smaller bearings, but I couldn't get
any details. Any help would be appreciated.

Perhaps, but not for what a good 1" fork costs.

Small things in big openings = easy, cheap
big things in small bores = hard, expensive
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

icebike said:

I have an older Giant TCR Team (anodised black, team graphics - same
as the original ONCE frame) which came stock with Giant's original all-
Carbon integrated fork with a 1" steerer. Is it possible to convert
to fork with a 1 1/8" steerer? Someone claimed it could be done by
using a different Aheadset with smaller bearings, but I couldn't get
any details. Any help would be appreciated.

Perhaps, but not for what a good 1" fork costs.

Small things in big openings = easy, cheap
big things in small bores = hard, expensive
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Point taken. The weird thing is, the OD of the head tube appears to
be the same as a 1 1/8" bike.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

icebike said:

I have an older Giant TCR Team (anodised black, team graphics - same
as the original ONCE frame) which came stock with Giant's original all-
Carbon integrated fork with a 1" steerer. Is it possible to convert
to fork with a 1 1/8" steerer? Someone claimed it could be done by
using a different Aheadset with smaller bearings, but I couldn't get
any details. Any help would be appreciated.

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Perhaps, but not for what a good 1" fork costs.
Small things in big openings = easy, cheap
big things in small bores = hard, expensive

icebike said:

Point taken. The weird thing is, the OD of the head tube appears to
be the same as a 1 1/8" bike.

And carbon O/S frames are larger still
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

icebike wrote:
> I have an older Giant TCR Team (anodised black, team graphics - same
> as the original ONCE frame) which came stock with Giant's original all-
> Carbon integratedforkwith a1" steerer. Is it possible to convert
> toforkwith a11/8" steerer? Someone claimed it could be done by
> using a different Aheadset with smaller bearings, but I couldn't get
> any details. Any help would be appreciated.

A Muzi said:

Perhaps, but not for what a good1"forkcosts.
Small things in big openings = easy, cheap
big things in small bores = hard, expensive

icebike said:

Point taken. The weird thing is, the OD of the head tube appears to
be the same as a11/8" bike.

And carbon O/S frames are larger still
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since1April, 1971

The guy who said he did it also had a Giant (TCR 0) - I wonder if the
old Giant TCR headtube dimensions somehow allow this or if he did
something crazy like ream out the tube further. Anyway, he moved so I
guess I'll never know....

icebike said:

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

> icebike wrote:
>> I have an older Giant TCR Team (anodised black, team graphics - same
>> as the original ONCE frame) which came stock with Giant's original all-
>> Carbon integratedforkwith a1" steerer.  Is it possible to convert
>> toforkwith a11/8" steerer?  Someone claimed it could be done by
>> using a different Aheadset with smaller bearings, but I couldn't get
>> any details.  Any help would be appreciated.
 A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Perhaps, but not for what a good1"forkcosts.
> Small things in big openings = easy, cheap
> big things in small bores = hard, expensive

icebike said:

Point taken.  The weird thing is, the OD of the head tube appears to
be the same as a11/8" bike.

Quoted message said:

And carbon O/S frames are larger still
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since1April, 1971

The guy who said he did it also had a Giant (TCR 0) - I wonder if the
old Giant TCR headtube dimensions somehow allow this or if he did
something crazy like ream out the tube further.  Anyway, he moved so I
guess I'll never know....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's sorta interesting... might 1 1/8 headset cups fit into an
integrated frames built in cups?

Scott Gordo said:

icebike said:

On Feb 22, 4:00 pm, A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> icebike wrote:
>>> I have an older Giant TCR Team (anodised black, team graphics - same
>>> as the original ONCE frame) which came stock with Giant's originalall-
>>> Carbon integratedforkwith a1" steerer.  Is it possible to convert
>>> toforkwith a11/8" steerer?  Someone claimed it could be done by
>>> using a different Aheadset with smaller bearings, but I couldn't get
>>> any details.  Any help would be appreciated.
>  A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> Perhaps, but not for what a good1"forkcosts.
>> Small things in big openings = easy, cheap
>> big things in small bores = hard, expensive
icebike wrote:
> Point taken.  The weird thing is, the OD of the head tube appears to
> be the same as a11/8" bike.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And carbon O/S frames are larger still
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since1April, 1971

Quoted message said:

The guy who said he did it also had a Giant (TCR 0) - I wonder if the
old Giant TCR headtube dimensions somehow allow this or if he did
something crazy like ream out the tube further.  Anyway, he moved so I
guess I'll never know....- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

That's sorta interesting... might 1 1/8 headset cups fit into an
integrated frames built in cups?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if they did, it would still throw off geometry....

quote='Scott Gordo'On Feb 23 said:

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

> icebike wrote:
>> I have an older Giant TCR Team (anodised black, team graphics - same
>> as the original ONCE frame) which came stock with Giant's original all-
>> Carbon integratedforkwith a1" steerer. *Is it possible to convert
>> toforkwith a11/8" steerer? *Someone claimed it could be done by
>> using a different Aheadset with smaller bearings, but I couldn't get
>> any details. *Any help would be appreciated.
*A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Perhaps, but not for what a good1"forkcosts.
> Small things in big openings = easy, cheap
> big things in small bores = hard, expensive

icebike said:

Point taken. *The weird thing is, the OD of the head tube appears to
be the same as a11/8" bike.

Quoted message said:

And carbon O/S frames are larger still
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since1April, 1971

The guy who said he did it also had a Giant (TCR 0) - I wonder if the
old Giant TCR headtube dimensions somehow allow this or if he did
something crazy like ream out the tube further. *Anyway, he moved so I
guess I'll never know....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's sorta interesting... might 1 1/8 headset cups fit into an
integrated frames built in cups?[/QUOTE]
Not directly. 1" integrated needs bigger holes than 1 1/8" standard headsets. But if you have access to a lathe it's no big deal to cut a set of spacers to go between.

quote='Scott Gordo'On Feb 26 said:

icebike said:

On Feb 22, 4:00 pm, A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> icebike wrote:
>>> I have an older Giant TCR Team (anodised black, team graphics - same
>>> as the original ONCE frame) which came stock with Giant's originalall-
>>> Carbon integratedforkwith a1" steerer. *Is it possible to convert
>>> toforkwith a11/8" steerer? *Someone claimed it could be done by
>>> using a different Aheadset with smaller bearings, but I couldn't get
>>> any details. *Any help would be appreciated.
> *A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> Perhaps, but not for what a good1"forkcosts.
>> Small things in big openings = easy, cheap
>> big things in small bores = hard, expensive
icebike wrote:
> Point taken. *The weird thing is, the OD of the head tube appears to
> be the same as a11/8" bike.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And carbon O/S frames are larger still
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since1April, 1971

Quoted message said:

The guy who said he did it also had a Giant (TCR 0) - I wonder if the
old Giant TCR headtube dimensions somehow allow this or if he did
something crazy like ream out the tube further. *Anyway, he moved so I
guess I'll never know....- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

That's sorta interesting... might 1 1/8 headset cups fit into an
integrated frames built in cups?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if they did, it would still throw off geometry....[/QUOTE]

Well, it would. But nowhere near enough to have any significant impact on rideability.

On Feb 26, 11:29 am, dabac <dabac.35e...@no-

mx.forums.cyclingforums.com said:

Scott Gordo said:

Scott Gordo said:

On Feb 23, 4:09*pm, icebike <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> On Feb 22, 4:00 pm, A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > >> icebike wrote:
> > >>> I have an older Giant TCR Team (anodised black, team graphics

- same

Quoted message said:

> > >>> as the original ONCE frame) which came stock with Giant's

originalall-

Quoted message said:

> > >>> Carbon integratedforkwith a1" steerer. *Is it possible to

convert

Quoted message said:

> > >>> toforkwith a11/8" steerer? *Someone claimed it could be done

by

Quoted message said:

> > >>> using a different Aheadset with smaller bearings, but I

couldn't get

Quoted message said:

> > >>> any details. *Any help would be appreciated.
> > > *A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > >> Perhaps, but not for what a good1"forkcosts.
> > >> Small things in big openings = easy, cheap
> > >> big things in small bores = hard, expensive
> > icebike wrote:
> > > Point taken. *The weird thing is, the OD of the head tube

appears to

Quoted message said:

> > > be the same as a11/8" bike.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > And carbon O/S frames are larger still
> > --
> > Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> > Open every day since1April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The guy who said he did it also had a Giant (TCR 0) - I wonder if

the

Quoted message said:

> old Giant TCR headtube dimensions somehow allow this or if he did
> something crazy like ream out the tube further. *Anyway, he moved

so I

Quoted message said:

> guess I'll never know....- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> - Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's sorta interesting... might 1 1/8 headset cups fit into an
integrated frames built in cups?- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Even if they did, it would still throw off geometry....

Well, it would. But nowhere near enough to have any significant impact
on rideability.

--
dabac- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So has anyone actually tried this idea of using standard 1 1/8" cups
with spacers into a 1" integrated headtube?

icebike said:

So has anyone actually tried this idea of using standard 1 1/8" cups with spacers into a 1" integrated headtube?

Yes.
I found this aluminum MTB frame by the name "Morishima" some years ago. The frame had been completely plundered out but the size was right and the weight was acceptable so I decided to build up a bike around it.
Back then I was pretty much completely clueless about the versions of headsets available, all I knew was that that the LBS didn't have anything that'd fit between the Marzocchi fork I'd just bought and the frame. So I went to a pal with a lathe and cut some spacers out of some old brass pipe fittings and stuck it all together.

Given the fairly unknown brand I simply assumed that the bike had originally been equipped with some proprietary type of headset, and it was just last autumn that I found out that the OD of the spacers I'd cut was an exact match for the OD of integrated bearings for a 1" steerer.

I'll readily admit to being neither the pickiest nor the hardest rider, but the bike has seen pretty serious use and the headset seems to be holding up fine.

On Feb 27, 5:30 am, dabac <dabac.35g...@no-

mx.forums.cyclingforums.com said:

icebike said:

So has anyone actually tried this idea of using standard11/8" cups
with spacers into a1" integrated headtube?

Yes.
I found this aluminum MTB frame by the name "Morishima" some years ago.
The frame had been completely plundered out but the size was right and
the weight was acceptable so I decided to build up a bike around it.
Back then I was pretty much completely clueless about the versions of
headsets available, all I knew was that that the LBS didn't have
anything that'd fit between the MarzocchiforkI'd just bought and the
frame. So I went to a pal with a lathe and cut some spacers out of some
old brass pipe fittings and stuck it all together.

Given the fairly unknown brand I simply assumed that the bike had
originally been equipped with some proprietary type of headset, and it
was just last autumn that I found out that the OD of the spacers I'd cut
was an exact match for the OD of integrated bearings for a1" steerer.

I'll readily admit to being neither the pickiest nor the hardest rider,
but the bike has seen pretty serious use and the headset seems to be
holding up fine.

--
dabac

Very, very interesting - I guess it is all about the tolerances and
the materials . BTW, I have been told that my old TCR Team bike
actually doesn't have an integrated system, but the old "hidden
Aheadset" of the 2001 (?) era - now I am really confused; man, do you
remember when headsets were headsets and all we complained about were
the weird wrenches required for the Shimano AX headsets' locknuts?
Maybe I'll just live with the flexy stock fork....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

icebike said:

So has anyone actually tried this idea of using standard11/8" cups
with spacers into a1" integrated headtube?

Quoted message said:

dabac dabac.35g...@no- mx.forums.cyclingforums.com said:

Yes.
I found this aluminum MTB frame by the name "Morishima" some years ago.
The frame had been completely plundered out but the size was right and
the weight was acceptable so I decided to build up a bike around it.
Back then I was pretty much completely clueless about the versions of
headsets available, all I knew was that that the LBS didn't have
anything that'd fit between the MarzocchiforkI'd just bought and the
frame. So I went to a pal with a lathe and cut some spacers out of some
old brass pipe fittings and stuck it all together.
Given the fairly unknown brand I simply assumed that the bike had
originally been equipped with some proprietary type of headset, and it
was just last autumn that I found out that the OD of the spacers I'd cut
was an exact match for the OD of integrated bearings for a1" steerer.
I'll readily admit to being neither the pickiest nor the hardest rider,
but the bike has seen pretty serious use and the headset seems to be
holding up fine.

icebike said:

Very, very interesting - I guess it is all about the tolerances and
the materials . BTW, I have been told that my old TCR Team bike
actually doesn't have an integrated system, but the old "hidden
Aheadset" of the 2001 (?) era - now I am really confused; man, do you
remember when headsets were headsets and all we complained about were
the weird wrenches required for the Shimano AX headsets' locknuts?
Maybe I'll just live with the flexy stock fork....

EX and AX series headsets can take both a pair of regular 32mm
Campagnolo wrenches or the lightweight (!) Shimano aluminum wrench set.
(or of course a 30-inch adjustable wrench on the locknut)

The Tange Aero Levin was the one with a special locknut wrench
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

icebike Wrote:
>  So has anyone actually tried this idea of using standard11/8" cups
> with spacers into a1" integrated headtube?

dabac dabac.35g...@no- mx.forums.cyclingforums.com said:

Yes.
I found this aluminum MTB frame by the name "Morishima" some years ago.
The frame had been completely plundered out but the size was right and
the weight was acceptable so I decided to build up a bike around it.
Back then I was pretty much completely clueless about the versions of
headsets available, all I knew was that that the LBS didn't have
anything that'd fit between the MarzocchiforkI'd just bought and the
frame. So I went to a pal with a lathe and cut some spacers out of some
old brass pipe fittings and stuck it all together.
Given the fairly unknown brand I simply assumed that the bike had
originally been equipped with some proprietary type of headset, and it
was just last autumn that I found out that the OD of the spacers I'd cut
was an exact match for the OD of integrated bearings for a1" steerer.
I'll readily admit to being neither the pickiest nor the hardest rider,
but the bike has seen pretty serious use and the headset seems to be
holding up fine.

icebike said:

Very, very interesting - I guess it is all about the tolerances and
the materials .  BTW, I have been told that my old TCR Team bike
actually doesn't have an integrated system, but the old "hidden
Aheadset" of the 2001 (?) era - now I am really confused; man, do you
remember when headsets were headsets and all we complained about were
the weird wrenches required for the Shimano AX headsets' locknuts?
Maybe I'll just live with the flexy stock fork....

EX and AX series headsets can take both a pair of regular 32mm
Campagnolo wrenches or the lightweight (!) Shimano aluminum wrench set.
(or of course a 30-inch adjustable wrench on the locknut)

The Tange Aero Levin was the one with a special locknut wrench
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi Andrew. Maybe it was the early EX headsets, not the AX, which both
had a special "star"-shaped locknut which required special Shimano
wrenches. It was supposed to stop tool slipping and scuffing the
radically light (at the time) and soft aluminium locknut. One of my
friends had the wrenches, and everyone was borrowing them all the time
so they didn't have to buy an otherwise one-use tool. Either that, or
my memory is going (an equally plausible possibility)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> icebike Wrote:
>> So has anyone actually tried this idea of using standard11/8" cups
>> with spacers into a1" integrated headtube?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dabac <dabac.35g...@no- mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Yes.
> I found this aluminum MTB frame by the name "Morishima" some years ago.
> The frame had been completely plundered out but the size was right and
> the weight was acceptable so I decided to build up a bike around it.
> Back then I was pretty much completely clueless about the versions of
> headsets available, all I knew was that that the LBS didn't have
> anything that'd fit between the MarzocchiforkI'd just bought and the
> frame. So I went to a pal with a lathe and cut some spacers out of some
> old brass pipe fittings and stuck it all together.
> Given the fairly unknown brand I simply assumed that the bike had
> originally been equipped with some proprietary type of headset, and it
> was just last autumn that I found out that the OD of the spacers I'd cut
> was an exact match for the OD of integrated bearings for a1" steerer.
> I'll readily admit to being neither the pickiest nor the hardest rider,
> but the bike has seen pretty serious use and the headset seems to be
> holding up fine.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

icebike said:

Very, very interesting - I guess it is all about the tolerances and
the materials . BTW, I have been told that my old TCR Team bike
actually doesn't have an integrated system, but the old "hidden
Aheadset" of the 2001 (?) era - now I am really confused; man, do you
remember when headsets were headsets and all we complained about were
the weird wrenches required for the Shimano AX headsets' locknuts?
Maybe I'll just live with the flexy stock fork....

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

EX and AX series headsets can take both a pair of regular 32mm
Campagnolo wrenches or the lightweight (!) Shimano aluminum wrench set.
(or of course a 30-inch adjustable wrench on the locknut)
The Tange Aero Levin was the one with a special locknut wrench

icebike said:

Hi Andrew. Maybe it was the early EX headsets, not the AX, which both
had a special "star"-shaped locknut which required special Shimano
wrenches. It was supposed to stop tool slipping and scuffing the
radically light (at the time) and soft aluminium locknut. One of my
friends had the wrenches, and everyone was borrowing them all the time
so they didn't have to buy an otherwise one-use tool. Either that, or
my memory is going (an equally plausible possibility)

The AX locknut and top race are scalloped from a 32mm blank so you
didn't actually _need_ the lightweight wrench; a regular 32mm wrench
fits perfectly well.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971