Road Bike Fit Problem

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tom Pich
[B]I have been having problems with lower back pain. The pain would creep up after about 30 miles or
so. It's an achy muscle type of pain. Nothing too major just uncomfortable on longer rides.

The first thing I checked was my saddle height. Saddle height adjustments did nothing except hurt my
knees so I think I was at the right height to begin with.

So the next thing I looked into was bar height. I've often heard if you're having lower back pain
then try raising the bar. So armed with risers stems (90 and 105 degree) I raised the bar. The
perplexing thing to me is the higher I got the bar the worse the pain got. With the 90 degree stem I
could go only 20 miles before I started to feel pain. With the 105 degree stem I made it about 15
miles before I felt pain. So it seemed to me I was going the wrong way with the bar.

I went back to my 80 degree stem and the pain was better. I took 1cm of spacer out which was even
more comfortable.

Now my bar height is 5.5" below my saddle height. Which to me is racer territory. But I'm a 36 year
old male, not very flexible and only been riding for two years. I just don't understand why I'm more
comfortable in this lower position.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Tom,
The reach must also be considered. Your top tube may be too short and/or the stem may be too short. I suggest ou get a professional to look at your position and help you with your fit. If you find a shop with a Serrota "Fit Cycle" that can help you feel the best fit for you. You may gain sone additional insights from the unique article by Peter White on fitting at URL:
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL

tpich-<< I have been having problems with lower back pain. The pain would creep up after about 30
miles or so. It's an achy muscle type of pain. >><BR><BR> << But I'm a 36 year old male, not very
flexible and only been riding for two years. I just don't understand why I'm more comfortable in
this lower position. >><BR><BR>

Any fit people around? Somebody that can put you and your bike on a trainer and do a good, complete
bike fit, with your inputs??

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Sounds to me like you're focusing on raising and lowering stuff. When I've had back problems on the
bike, the issue has usually been reach. I don't think it's how high or low your bars and/or saddle
are (well, that's obviously a part of the fit formula), but you may need to focus more on how far
they are apart. By lowering the bars the way you did, you probably finally stretched the reach to
the point that your back flattened out. You could probably accomplish that in other ways with a
higher bar position, but a longer stem ... or with your saddle moved back.

I've researched fit pretty extensively. You should start by getting a saddle position that's right
for you relative to your bottom bracket. This is the saddle position that allows you to drop a plumb
line off the front of your knee that bisects the pedal axle and gives just the right amount of bend
to the knee, etc. After you've nailed that, then you work on the reach to the handle bar by messing
with stem lengths. I believe they say the ideal bar height is about 2 inches below the nose of the
saddle. 5.5 inches might work if you're 7 feet tall.

A "rule of thumb" is that a correctly positioned handlebar will obscure your view of the front hub
when you're riding with your hands on the brake hoods.

Hope some of this helps.

Bob C. "Tom Pich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been having problems with lower back pain. The pain would creep up after about 30 miles or
so. It's an achy muscle type of pain. Nothing too major just uncomfortable on longer rides.

The first thing I checked was my saddle height. Saddle height adjustments did nothing except hurt
my knees so I think I was at the right height to begin with.

So the next thing I looked into was bar height. I've often heard if you're having lower back pain
then try raising the bar. So armed with risers

stems

Quoted message said:

(90 and 105 degree) I raised the bar. The perplexing thing to me is the higher I got the bar the
worse the pain got. With the 90 degree stem I

could

Quoted message said:

go only 20 miles before I started to feel pain. With the 105 degree stem I made it about 15 miles
before I felt pain. So it seemed to me I was going the wrong way with the bar.

I went back to my 80 degree stem and the pain was better. I took 1cm of spacer out which was even
more comfortable.

Now my bar height is 5.5" below my saddle height. Which to me is racer territory. But I'm a 36
year old male, not very flexible and only been riding for two years. I just don't understand why
I'm more comfortable in this lower position.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Thank you,

Tom

Quoted message said:

bar height. I've often heard if you're

having lower back pain then try raising the bar...

Not always: I am more comfortable in with handlebar about 8-10 cm lower than the saddle than with a
higher position -- counter-intuitive, but certainly true in my case.

For what it's worth, I'm in my 50's and have a history of back problems (including surgery)
thoughout my adult life... but riding road bikes has helped tremendously.

You still need proper fit and setup!

Mike Yankee

(Address is munged to thwart spammers. To reply, delete everything after "com".)

"> Any fit people around? Somebody that can put you and your bike on a trainer and

Quoted message said:

do a good, complete bike fit, with your inputs??

Peter,

The only fit person in my area that I know of fit me to my current bike position. I don't have a lot
of confidence in him.

Tom

"Robert Chambers wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Sounds to me like you're focusing on raising and lowering stuff. When I've had back problems on the
bike, the issue has usually been reach. I don't think it's how high or low your bars and/or saddle
are (well, that's obviously a part of the fit formula), but you may need to focus more on

how

Quoted message said:

far they are apart. By lowering the bars the way you did, you probably finally stretched the reach
to the point that your back flattened out.

Robert,

This is more than likely the problem. I really should have thought of it myself but as you said, I
was "focusing on raising and lowering stuff". Thank you for pointing this out.

Tom

in article [email hidden], MikeYankee at [email hidden]
wrote on 10/2/03 9:44 AM:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bar height. I've often heard if you're

having lower back pain then try raising the bar...

Not always: I am more comfortable in with handlebar about 8-10 cm lower than the saddle than with
a higher position -- counter-intuitive, but certainly true in my case.

For what it's worth, I'm in my 50's and have a history of back problems (including surgery)
thoughout my adult life... but riding road bikes has helped tremendously.

I can't help anyone with bicycle fitting, but for those of you with back problems (or hip, knee,
shoulder, neck problems, etc.), here is the best doctor that I have found:

ongleyonline.comongleyonline.comOpen ↗

Milne Ongley specializes in Reconstructive Ligament Therapy, and led a clinical double blind study
published in The Lancet, July 18, 1987, pp 143-146. See

ongleyonline.comlancetstudy.htmlOpen ↗.

As far as I know, the results published in this paper are the best among all treatments of back
pain, especially chronic lower back pain.

I have been treated by Dr. Ongley for problems in my lower back, hips, knees, neck, and shoulders,
as sell as for degenerative arthitis in both thumbs and big toes. I think he is amazing. He has
treated skiiers on the US National team with great success.

Thanks to Dr. Ongley, I now include bicycling in my regular exercise routine, as well as stuff like
doing 50 toe touches every morning.

David Wagner, 50 years old.

RE/

Quoted message said:

I just don't understand why I'm more comfortable in this lower position.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Yes, to the extent that a lower position helped me straighten out my back.

With the bars an inch higher than they are now, I found myself slouching - so that up-and-down
shocks kind of made my spine curve and un-curve, which created muscle pain later.

Leaning forward a little more made it easier for me to keep my back straight and a little closer to
parallel to the shocks instead of in-line with them.
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

Tom Pich said:

Now my bar height is 5.5" below my saddle height. Which to me is racer territory. But I'm a 36 year
old male, not very flexible and only been riding for two years. I just don't understand why I'm
more comfortable in this lower position.

I postulate that with the bars higher, you expect to lean down more but find the bars pushing back;
so, your back continuously pushes against them.

Or, my next guess, would be muscular support vs. skeletal support. See
sheldonbrown.compain.htmlOpen ↗ for info on that.

Quoted message said:

Thank you,

Tom

--
Rick "No experience, just brainstorming" Onanian

"Tom Pich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have been having problems with lower back pain. The pain would creep up after about 30 miles or
so. It's an achy muscle type of pain. Nothing too major just uncomfortable on longer rides.

The first thing I checked was my saddle height. Saddle height adjustments did nothing except hurt
my knees so I think I was at the right height to begin with.

So the next thing I looked into was bar height. I've often heard if you're having lower back pain
then try raising the bar. So armed with risers stems (90 and 105 degree) I raised the bar. The
perplexing thing to me is the higher I got the bar the worse the pain got. With the 90 degree stem
I could go only 20 miles before I started to feel pain. With the 105 degree stem I made it about
15 miles before I felt pain. So it seemed to me I was going the wrong way with the bar.

I went back to my 80 degree stem and the pain was better. I took 1cm of spacer out which was even
more comfortable.

Now my bar height is 5.5" below my saddle height. Which to me is racer territory. But I'm a 36
year old male, not very flexible and only been riding for two years. I just don't understand why
I'm more comfortable in this lower position.

I think you've eliminated the most common fit/back pain issue - bar height. The other one is reach.
If you're reaching too far for the bars, you can be constantly tensing your back to push back. An
indicator of this is a tendency to slide forward in the saddle. You can try moving the saddle
forward and/or getting a stem with less reach.

Another related fit issue is having the saddle too high. The indicator of this is rocking hips. This
can tire a back out.

If it's not a fit issue, it can just be that your back muscles are tight and/or prone to fatigue.
The best way to deal with this is stretching, on & off the bike. Getting out of the saddle
periodically can allow you to straighten out the back, even stretching in a backward arch. Off the
bike, I find that regular stretching exercises, particularly for tight hamstrings, help a lot. It
seems that cycling can cause tight muscles, which can put some alignment strains on the lower back.
Supposedly, exercising abdominal muscles also helps by balancing the forces on the spine.

stretch in the four point-hands feet butt up position then twist the pelvis stretching the muscles
running off the spine to the pelvis. and situps, leg lifts ab crunchs works good