One of the water bottle bosses on my aluminum Bianchi frame is loose & spins in place (on the seat tube). I think it was originally a rivnut but I can't be certain. If it is a rivnut, can it be 're-riveted,' w/ o the use of tools?
If the above method doesn't work, is it safe to drill the old boss out and install an (Al) rivnut?
This thread seems to suggest holes (aka rivnuts) on the frame aren't safe, mostly due to torsion (& lack of pre-load): http://yarchive.net/bike/rivnuts.html
One of the water bottle bosses on my aluminum Bianchi frame is loose & spins in place (on the seat tube). I think it was originally a rivnut but I can't be certain. If it is a rivnut, can it be 're-riveted,' w/ o the use of tools?
probably: you'll need a M5 bolt with sufficient thread, a washer, a m5 nut and two 8mm spanners. Insert the bolt in the rivnut, hold the bolthead with a spanner and torque down the nut on the washer
One of the water bottle bosses on my aluminum Bianchi frame is loose & spins in place (on the seat tube). I think it was originally a rivnut but I can't be certain. If it is a rivnut, can it be 're-riveted,' w/ o the use of tools?
There exists a tool that can be used to tighten these things. A threaded affair where you push the end down in an attempt to tighten it.
Quoted message said:
If the above method doesn't work, is it safe to drill the old boss out and install an (Al) rivnut?
yes, we do that all the time.
Quoted message said:
This thread seems to suggest holes (aka rivnuts) on the frame aren't safe, mostly due to torsion (& lack of pre-load):http://yarchive.net/bike/rivnuts.html
One of the water bottle bosses on my aluminum Bianchi frame is loose & spins in place (on the seat tube). I think it was originally a rivnut but I can't be certain. If it is a rivnut, can it be 're-riveted,' w/ o the use of tools?
If the above method doesn't work, is it safe to drill the old boss out and install an (Al) rivnut?
This thread seems to suggest holes (aka rivnuts) on the frame aren't safe, mostly due to torsion (& lack of pre-load):http://yarchive.net/bike/rivnuts.html
I'd say that thread is just making up stuff to sound like they know something. I know a tandem dealer who put the rivet water bottle bosses on his Co-Motion Big Al tandem. And rode it many, many thousands of miles including PBP without any problems. I've had them installed on an aluminum Trek frame without problems. And a steel frame without problems. They are so much nicer than clamp on work around things.
I'd say that thread is just making up stuff to sound like they know something. I know a tandem dealer who put the rivet water bottle bosses on his Co-Motion Big Al tandem. And rode it many, many thousands of miles including PBP without any problems. I've had them installed on an aluminum Trek frame without problems. And a steel frame without problems. They are so much nicer than clamp on work around things.
Rather than people making things up, perhaps your sample set is too small.
Like it or not they will come loose, I have an example in the front hallway right now, bottle wobbling, bolts tight. Every few years I have to pull the BB and drill out the generic rivnuts from the steel downtube, since they are aluminum the pieces would probably be safe enough rattling around down there, but it gives me a chance to grease things.
They do work well enough though, I've never lost a bottle yet and agree they are cleaner than clamps and don't mess up the paint finish like a brazing job will. I think that having a steel core with the bolt they are far more durable than just pop riveting a cage to a frame but IME not as long lasting as a brazed or welded on threaded boss.
The technique suggested by M-Engineering (a bolt and nut to pull the Rivnut down) could probably also be used to tighten the one that is loose. Why drill it out if you don't have to?
One of the water bottle bosses on my aluminum Bianchi frame is loose & spins in place (on the seat tube). I think it was originally a rivnut but I can't be certain. If it is a rivnut, can it be 're-riveted,' w/ o the use of tools?
If the above method doesn't work, is it safe to drill the old boss out and install an (Al) rivnut?
This thread seems to suggest holes (aka rivnuts) on the frame aren't safe, mostly due to torsion (& lack of pre-load): http://yarchive.net/bike/rivnuts.html
Rivnuts have become standard for aluminum frames and yes it maybe easily reset or removed/replaced at any competent LBS which commonly services bicycles. Quick and cheap.
-- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
One of the water bottle bosses on my aluminum Bianchi frame is loose & spins in place (on the seat tube). I think it was originally a rivnut but I can't be certain. If it is a rivnut, can it be 're-riveted,' w/ o the use of tools?
Rivnuts are usually used for water bottle bosses on aluminum frames, rather than the more reliable brazed on bosses used on steel frames.
Quoted message said:
probably: you'll need a M5 bolt with sufficient thread, a washer, a m5 nut and two 8mm spanners. Insert the bolt in the rivnut, hold the bolthead with a spanner and torque down the nut on the washer
This assumes that it's possible to thread the M5 bolt into the spinning rivnut.
If successful in reriveting the rivnut, you can be sure that it'll be temporary. I'd use a 16mm long stainless steel M5 metric threaded stud in the boss (McMaster 93805A289), secured with a stainless steel thin (2.7mm) stainless steel metric nut (McMaster 93935A330) and lockwasher. Then use metric acorn nuts (McMaster 94000A037) (or regular metric nuts) to attach the bottle cage to the stud.
One of the water bottle bosses on my aluminum Bianchi frame is loose & spins in place (on the seat tube). I think it was originally a rivnut but I can't be certain. If it is a rivnut, can it be 're-riveted,' w/ o the use of tools?
Rivnuts are usually used for water bottle bosses on aluminum frames, rather than the more reliable brazed on bosses used on steel frames.
Quoted message said:
probably: you'll need a M5 bolt with sufficient thread, a washer, a m5 nut and two 8mm spanners. Insert the bolt in the rivnut, hold the bolthead with a spanner and torque down the nut on the washer
This assumes that it's possible to thread the M5 bolt into the spinning rivnut.
If successful in reriveting the rivnut, you can be sure that it'll be temporary. I'd use a 16mm long stainless steel M5 metric threaded stud in the boss (McMaster 93805A289), secured with a stainless steel thin (2.7mm) stainless steel metric nut (McMaster 93935A330) and lockwasher. Then use metric acorn nuts (McMaster 94000A037) (or regular metric nuts) to attach the bottle cage to the stud.
One of the water bottle bosses on my aluminum Bianchi frame is loose & spins in place (on the seat tube). I think it was originally a rivnut but I can't be certain. If it is a rivnut, can it be 're-riveted,' w/ o the use of tools? If the above method doesn't work, is it safe to drill the old boss out and install an (Al) rivnut? This thread seems to suggest holes (aka rivnuts) on the frame aren't safe, mostly due to torsion (& lack of pre-load):http://yarchive.net/bike/rivnuts.html But Klein's & Litespeed manual says do it anyways:http://www.kleinjapan.com/tech_guide/pre97_klein_tech_manual.pdf What's the real deal?
Quoted message said:
I'd say that thread is just making up stuff to sound like they know something. I know a tandem dealer who put the rivet water bottle bosses on his Co-Motion Big Al tandem. And rode it many, many thousands of miles including PBP without any problems. I've had them installed on an aluminum Trek frame without problems. And a steel frame without problems. They are so much nicer than clamp on work around things.
Russell's got it. Besides just about every aluminum frame maker has used them for 12~15 years. If there were a problem we'd know after 50 million units. (p.s. On a steel bike you can use steel Rivnuts and braze them in later if you wish. Acid wash the joint before brazing) -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
I'd say that thread is just making up stuff to sound like they know something. I know a tandem dealer who put the rivet water bottle bosses on his Co-Motion Big Al tandem. And rode it many, many thousands of miles including PBP without any problems. I've had them installed on an aluminum Trek frame without problems. And a steel frame without problems. They are so much nicer than clamp on work around things.
Marcus Coles said:
Rather than people making things up, perhaps your sample set is too small. Like it or not they will come loose, I have an example in the front hallway right now, bottle wobbling, bolts tight. Every few years I have to pull the BB and drill out the generic rivnuts from the steel downtube, since they are aluminum the pieces would probably be safe enough rattling around down there, but it gives me a chance to grease things. They do work well enough though, I've never lost a bottle yet and agree they are cleaner than clamps and don't mess up the paint finish like a brazing job will. I think that having a steel core with the bolt they are far more durable than just pop riveting a cage to a frame but IME not as long lasting as a brazed or welded on threaded boss.
Try the steel Rivnuts instead
p.s - you could later braze the steel Rivnuts. Or just braze in real bosses which are marginally prettier(YMMV on that) p.p.s - sample size? How about 3~4 million bikes per year for 12~15 years?? These things are neither rare nor new. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
The technique suggested by M-Engineering (a bolt and nut to pull the Rivnut down) could probably also be used to tighten the one that is loose. Why drill it out if you don't have to?
OK, I am with you that far but what's wrong with a ten-second application of a Rivnut setter?
-- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
"A Muzi" OK, I am with you that far but what's wrong with a ten-second application of a Rivnut setter? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'll answer that by quoting from the OP: "If it is a rivnut, can it be 're-riveted,' w/ o the use of tools?" I guess he doesn't have a Rivnut setter.
How about 3~4 million bikes per year for 12~15 years?? These things are neither rare nor new.
Yep thats a lot more than 3 bikes. I didn't think they were new, my rivnut setter is probably 20 years old and I've squeezed a few hundred, mostly in automotive applications, over the years.
"A Muzi" OK, I am with you that far but what's wrong with a ten-second application of a Rivnut setter? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'll answer that by quoting from the OP: "If it is a rivnut, can it be 're-riveted,' w/ o the use of tools?" I guess he doesn't have a Rivnut setter.
Resetting the rivnut back into the same hole may not fix the spinning problem, at least not for long
"A Muzi" OK, I am with you that far but what's wrong with a ten-second application of a Rivnut setter? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'll answer that by quoting from the OP: "If it is a rivnut, can it be 're-riveted,' w/o the use of tools?" I guess he doesn't have a Rivnut setter.
If one does not have rivnut setter handy, one can try:
Russell's got it. Besides just about every aluminum frame maker has used them for 12~15 years. If there were a problem we'd know after 50 million units.
With alumnium frames something else usually breaks first, but this isn't uncommon: www.m-gineering.nl/bidonscheur.jpg -- --- Marten Gerritsen
"A Muzi" OK, I am with you that far but what's wrong with a ten-second application of a Rivnut setter? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'll answer that by quoting from the OP: "If it is a rivnut, can it be 're-riveted,' w/o the use of tools?" I guess he doesn't have a Rivnut setter.
If one does not have rivnut setter handy, one can try:
Cute.
Too bad the cheap rivet nut tools from Northern Tool and Harbor Freight don't do metric.
I never had a need for a Rivnut setter, but then again only one out of about fifteen bikes in our household has an aluminum frame.
"SMS" wrote: Resetting the rivnut back into the same hole may not fix the spinning problem, at least not for long ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ In another post, a link is given to a Park Tool part and procedure. I quote from there: "If the nut was not fully expanded during the original installation, it may be crimped further."
BTW, their suggestion to use a skewer as a crimping tool is very ingenious. I assume you could also use a seatpost clamp, but I haven't tried it.
