Rims - which are most reliable

First of all, stop hitting things! That'll save you the most $$ in both the short and long term.
Second, inflate your tires to the proper pressure. Third, stop hitting things! The key to happy road
riding is to learn to miss the debris in the roadway.

There is no rim that is significantly more durable when you're talking about hitting things. They're
not designed for that. The best I can think of are a pair of Torelli Masters, or some Mavic
MA2/MA40s. Maybe the box section will give a little before self-destructing?

Anyone else?

"Steve & Carla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm damaging rear 700cc rims every time I hit something hard (not jumping off curbs). This is
getting expensive. Does anyone guarantee rims?

I've tried Mavic and Sun including Ryno-lite. Thinking about going to a

26"

Quoted message said:

rim or even smaller (never a problem with Bike Friday 20" rims).

Any advice?

- Steve

"Steve & Carla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
| I'm damaging rear 700cc rims every time I hit something hard (not jumping off curbs). This is
| getting expensive. Does anyone guarantee rims?
|
| I've tried Mavic and Sun including Ryno-lite. Thinking about going to a
26"
| rim or even smaller (never a problem with Bike Friday 20" rims).
|
| Any advice?
|
| - Steve
|
Sun CR-18 with 36 spokes

Larger tires, more spokes, and higher tension. New prescrption for eyeglasses.

Steve & Carla said:

I'm damaging rear 700cc rims every time I hit something hard (not jumping off curbs). This is
getting expensive. Does anyone guarantee rims?

I've tried Mavic and Sun including Ryno-lite. Thinking about going to a 26" rim or even smaller
(never a problem with Bike Friday 20" rims).

Any advice?

- Steve

Quoted message said:

From: "Steve & Carla"

Quoted message said:

I'm damaging rear 700cc rims every time I hit something hard (not jumping off curbs). This is
getting expensive.

Quoted message said:

Any advice?

Bigger tires. Big enough to protect the rim at about 105psi, then you're not riding on rocks.
Suggest a "real" 23 size, if you've been using nominal (skinny) 20's or whatever. Might need to
upsize your tubes, too. Use the biggest ones that fit into your tires, printed sizes on tube boxes
can be misleading.

There might be some rims that will withstand a hit better than others, but if your tire is sized
right for your weight and riding conditions you can pretty much get out of the rim-testing business.
--Tom Paterson

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Steve & Carla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm damaging rear 700cc rims every time I hit something hard (not jumping off curbs). This is
getting expensive.

Mike S. mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet said:

First of all, stop hitting things! That'll save you the most $$ in both the short and long term.
Second, inflate your tires to the proper pressure. Third, stop hitting things!

And consider using higher-profile (ie- bigger) tires. Not some tiny 20mm pseudo-sewups. 23mm or even
25mm tires roll pretty well when inflated correctly.

I'm 180lbs now and I used to race cyclocross, so my sense of what needs to be avoided in the road
differs from some track geeks (though I did race track for a couple years too). Anyway, I avoid what
I can, but when riding in a group/pack, you can't avoid everything. But I still get thousands and
thousands of miles out of my rear rims.

Steve, what sort of stuff are you hitting? What tires are you riding? What do you weigh?

Jim

Steve & Carla said:

I'm damaging rear 700cc rims every time I hit something hard (not jumping off curbs). This is
getting expensive. Does anyone guarantee rims?

I've tried Mavic and Sun including Ryno-lite. Thinking about going to a 26" rim or even smaller
(never a problem with Bike Friday 20" rims).

Well, no, no one guarantees rims that I know of. But I see no reason why 700c rims would be more
susceptable to damage than 20" rims. In fact, with their greater curvature, I'd think they'd be more
likely to get damaged, since a potlhole can catch it more readily.

I have had very good results with Mavic rims. I weigh about 200lbs, and have for years (sigh). I
don't go out of my way to hit things, but I don't avoid rough roads or gravel, either.

Keep your tires inflated to the right pressure, and don't run over every pothole you see, like
the man said.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and _`\(,_ | Excellence. (_)/ (_) |

Steve who? said:

I'm damaging rear 700cc rims every time I hit something hard (not jumping off curbs). This is
getting expensive. Does anyone guarantee rims?

It's not riding off curbs, or stairs for that matter, that ruin rims. It's riding into curbs or
angular objects with:

1. too small a cross section tire,
2. insufficient inflation pressure
3. overweight rider
4. clumsy bicycle handling

Quoted message said:

I've tried Mavic and Sun including Ryno-lite. Thinking about going to a 26" rim or even smaller
(never a problem with Bike Friday 20" rims).

You cannot expect a rim to survive bottoming on an obstacle or even on a flat road. All aluminum
rims have nearly the same bead-hook and sidewall. Therefore, choice of rim has no effect. Explaining
the circumstances under which you destroy rims would help, both because readers might recognize a
solution and because describing it in writing might help you recognize the answer yourself.

When did you start riding bicycles?

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

I don't remember having problems when I weighed 165, but now that I am 200# there seems to be a
correlation tor im failure.

The first rim problem was on a Trek 1420 after a bike shop retentioned (tightened up) the spokes
on a matrix rim, which I later heard was a defective rim. This rim had numerous cracks in the
sides of the rim.

Second rim failure was riding over a piece of plastic or a road flare. This ripped a spoke out
of the rim.

Third rim was 3 spokes pulling thru the rim.

Lastest problem was running over a rock on a night ride.

- Steve

"Jim Feeley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Steve & Carla" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> I'm damaging rear 700cc rims every time I hit something hard (not

jumping

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> off curbs). This is getting expensive.

Mike S. mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet said:

First of all, stop hitting things! That'll save you the most $$ in both

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

short and long term. Second, inflate your tires to the proper pressure. Third, stop hitting
things!

And consider using higher-profile (ie- bigger) tires. Not some tiny 20mm pseudo-sewups. 23mm or
even 25mm tires roll pretty well when inflated correctly.

I'm 180lbs now and I used to race cyclocross, so my sense of what needs to be avoided in the road
differs from some track geeks (though I did race track for a couple years too). Anyway, I avoid
what I can, but when riding in a group/pack, you can't avoid everything. But I still get thousands
and thousands of miles out of my rear rims.

Steve, what sort of stuff are you hitting? What tires are you riding? What do you weigh?

Jim

Jim Feeley said:

And consider using higher-profile (ie- bigger) tires. Not some tiny 20mm pseudo-sewups. 23mm or
even 25mm tires roll pretty well when inflated correctly.

32mm roll ok too :-)

Hi Steve, my sugggestions below:

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I don't remember having problems when I weighed 165, but now that I am 200# there seems to be a
correlation tor im failure.

The first rim problem was on a Trek 1420 after a bike shop retentioned (tightened up) the spokes
on a matrix rim, which I later heard was a defective rim. This rim had numerous cracks in the
sides of the rim.

A rim made with thicker walls or a stronger alloy will help this problem.

Quoted message said:

Second rim failure was riding over a piece of plastic or a road flare. This ripped a spoke out of
the rim.

A rim made with thicker walls or a stronger alloy will help this problem.

But how often do you anticipate incidents like this? Very few rims would survive that in my
experience.

Quoted message said:

Third rim was 3 spokes pulling thru the rim.

A rim made with thicker walls or a stronger alloy will help this problem.

Quoted message said:

Lastest problem was running over a rock on a night ride.

As others have suggested, avoiding the obstacle (tough to do some times, especially at night) is a
good solution. Bigger tires and higher inflation pressures are also good solutions.

Quoted message said:

- Steve

Anyone have specific rim models that have thicker spoke walls or a stronger alloy?

Doesn't Rivendell make some kinda huge tire? The Roly-Poly or something like that??

Won't help for ripping out spokes, but if you run over something, it may help.

"Tom Paterson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: "Steve & Carla"

Quoted message said:

I'm damaging rear 700cc rims every time I hit something hard (not jumping off curbs). This is
getting expensive.

Quoted message said:

Any advice?

Bigger tires. Big enough to protect the rim at about 105psi, then you're

not

Quoted message said:

riding on rocks. Suggest a "real" 23 size, if you've been using nominal (skinny) 20's or whatever.
Might need to upsize your tubes, too. Use the biggest ones that fit into your tires, printed sizes
on tube boxes can be misleading.

There might be some rims that will withstand a hit better than others, but

if

Quoted message said:

your tire is sized right for your weight and riding conditions you can

pretty

Quoted message said:

much get out of the rim-testing business. --Tom Paterson

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve who? said:

I'm damaging rear 700cc rims every time I hit something hard (not jumping off curbs). This is
getting expensive. Does anyone guarantee rims?

It's not riding off curbs, or stairs for that matter, that ruin rims. It's riding into curbs or
angular objects with:

1. too small a cross section tire,
2. insufficient inflation pressure
3. overweight rider
4. clumsy bicycle handling

Quoted message said:

I've tried Mavic and Sun including Ryno-lite. Thinking about going to a 26" rim or even smaller
(never a problem with Bike Friday 20" rims).

You cannot expect a rim to survive bottoming on an obstacle or even on a flat road. All aluminum
rims have nearly the same bead-hook and sidewall. Therefore, choice of rim has no effect.
Explaining the circumstances under which you destroy rims would help, both because readers might
recognize a solution and because describing it in writing might help you recognize the answer
yourself.

When did you start riding bicycles?

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

Steve,

Night riding can be a challenge to see and avoid all obstacles that can cause damage. I suggest you
consider the following:
1. A quality shock absorbing seat post (or always ride with your seat unweighted) (are you carrying
panniers or other dead weight?)
2. Bontrager Fairlane OSB rim (reasonably priced, wider, heavier, and more durable) You will get a
little additional margin of vertical deflection before bottoming out if the tire side wall are
closer to parallel to rim walls.
3. Put the largest cross section tire you can fit.
4. Keep inflated to maximum recommended pressure. (carry and use a pump like Topeak Morph)
5. More lighting to help spot obstacles

David Ornee, Western Springs, IL

"David Ornee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve,

Night riding can be a challenge to see and avoid all obstacles that can cause damage. I suggest
you consider the following:
1. A quality shock absorbing seat post (or always ride with your seat unweighted) (are you
carrying panniers or other dead weight?)
2. Bontrager Fairlane OSB rim (reasonably priced, wider, heavier, and

more

Quoted message said:

durable) You will get a little additional margin of vertical deflection before bottoming out if
the tire side wall are closer to parallel to rim walls.
3. Put the largest cross section tire you can fit.

The Bontrager Fairlane used the same extrusion as the Bontrager Corvair (26" MTB) but rolled into a
700c hoop. While both these rims are indeed reasonably priced and pretty durable, at 22mm wide
they're certainly not as wide (or as heavy) as the 27.5mm Sun Rhyno Lite the original poster
mentioned.

Steve wrote...

Quoted message said:

This rim had numerous cracks in the sides of the rim.

Second rim failure... ripped a spoke out of the rim.

Third rim was 3 spokes pulling thru the rim.

Lastest problem was running over a rock on a night ride.

None of the first three problems sound like they were caused by impacts or misuse. Spokes pulling
through the rim imply a problem with the wheelbuild (tension too high for a given rim) or faulty
rims. Some might say that *any* rim that doesn't allow near-taco tension is faulty, but let's save
that for another thread.

Cracks in the sides of the rim? Either the rim was very well worn from braking or it was a
really poor rim.

So I'd agree with the consensus. At 200 lbs, you don't need anything special unless you're really
pounding these wheels hard (i.e. jumping on and off curbs). Get a good wheelbuilder to build a solid
wheel using 32 or 36 butted spokes and you'll probably get good service from the wheels.

Dave dvt at psu dot edu

Dave VT? said:

Quoted message said:

This rim had numerous cracks in the sides of the rim.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Second rim failure... ripped a spoke out of the rim.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Third rim was 3 spokes pulling thru the rim.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Latest problem was running over a rock on a night ride.

Quoted message said:

None of the first three problems sound like they were caused by impacts or misuse. Spokes pulling
through the rim imply a problem with the wheelbuild (tension too high for a given rim) or faulty
rims. Some might say that *any* rim that doesn't allow near-taco tension is faulty, but let's save
that for another thread.

Quoted message said:

Cracks in the sides of the rim? Either the rim was very well worn from braking or it was a really
poor rim.

Quoted message said:

So I'd agree with the consensus. At 200 lbs, you don't need anything special unless you're really
pounding these wheels hard
(i.e. jumping on and off curbs). Get a good wheelbuilder to build a solid wheel using 32 or 36
butted spokes and you'll probably get good service from the wheels.

Failures 1-3 are caused by fatigue, not sudden overload such as the one suggested of jumping off
curbs and the like. Fatigue failures are accelerated by larger cyclic loading, both more wheel
rotations and greater load. Therefore, thiner spokes would make a difference by reducing peak load
changes. I'm not considering the rims involved because good rims ate hard to find these days, most
being anodized and having only eyelets rather than double wall spoke sockets. DT Revolution spokes,
in spite of greater difficulty of tensioning and truing, would most likely material lengthen life of
these same rims.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

That Sun CR 18 isn't that great,spoke breaker. The one I like and I've rode in the dirt is a Araya
PX- 645 laced to a Shimano FH RM 10 hub with a 700x38c tire. It has out lasted my Sun CR 18 100 %.
It even took a hit at 27 mph that put a 2 inch sq hole in the tire. Don't know what it hit but it
was heavy sanded and full of metal and glass. Once I picked up the end of a road flare with spike
and had to the rim.

Fire up MTB 03

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
| That Sun CR 18 isn't that great,spoke breaker. The one I like and I've rode in the
| dirt is a Araya PX- 645 laced to a Shimano FH RM 10 hub with a 700x38c tire. It
| has out lasted my Sun CR 18 100 %. It even took a hit at 27 mph that put a 2 inch
| sq hole in the tire. Don't know what it hit but it was heavy sanded and full of
| metal and glass. Once I picked up the end of a road flare with spike and had to
| the rim.
|
| Fire up MTB 03
|

The rims has nothing to do with spoke breakage. Spoke breakage is more the result of an incorrectly
built wheel. I have a pair of CR-18's with over 10,000 miles on them. And I'm talking miles with a
heavy rider and touring weight as well. Just use enough spokes (36 or more), quality components, and
get the wheel built properly.

dvt said:

Steve wrote...

Quoted message said:

This rim had numerous cracks in the sides of the rim.

Second rim failure... ripped a spoke out of the rim.

Third rim was 3 spokes pulling thru the rim.

Lastest problem was running over a rock on a night ride.

None of the first three problems sound like they were caused by impacts or misuse. Spokes pulling
through the rim imply a problem with the wheelbuild (tension too high for a given rim) or faulty
rims. Some might say that *any* rim that doesn't allow near-taco tension is faulty, but let's save
that for another thread.

Spokes pulling through is often attributed to high static tension - but is that really the biggest
factor? It is true that high mean tensions can decrease fatigue life, but it is just one of many
factors that affect fatigue life (magnitude of the cyclic tension, stress concentrations, surface
treatments and condition, material flaws, etc.). So the question is, how significant really is the
magnitude of static tension in rim cracks? Is it a small enough factor that the benefits of high
static tension outweigh the possible decrease in rim fatigue life?

Mark McMaster [email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I'm damaging rear 700cc rims every time I hit something hard (not jumping off curbs). This is
getting expensive. Does anyone guarantee rims?

No one will guarantee a rim against this type of damage.

Quoted message said:

I've tried Mavic and Sun including Ryno-lite. Thinking about going to a 26" rim or even smaller
(never a problem with Bike Friday 20" rims).

You should be thinking of getting fatter tires, not new rims.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)