Rim strips: a cautionary tale

In article said:

For many years I've used a couple of layers of fiberglass strapping tape if a real rim strip was
not handy. Until today, I've never had a problem. Today this could have had catastrophic
consequences; but I got lucky.

[...]

I've used fiberglas strapping tape as rim stripe for many years. The only failures I have had have
been from using only one layer of tape. That's not quite strong enough so eventually the tape bulged
into the spoke nipple holes and the tube chafed.

I run my tires at 110psi, ride lots of long descents and I've never had the type of heat-related
flats you described.

But I won't use strapping tape any more. A couple months ago I put one of my old race wheels back
into service (an Araya CTL375 rim on 600 hub). I'd used strapping tape on it when I got it in the
late 80s. It was old and I didn't want to trust it so it had to come off. It took me an hour to get
the damn stuff off! There's no weight advantage with strapping tape; I used it because it was one
less special thing I had to get at a bicycle store.

I prefer one of the plastic strips or the Ritchey plastic tape stuff.

Eric

Eric Murray <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I prefer one of the plastic strips or the Ritchey plastic tape stuff.

I used the plastic stuff from Michelin and ended up, after a year or so, with a puncture caused by
the tape cracking over a spoke hole.

I have no idea if the Ritchey tape is avoids this problem..

These days I only use Velox fabric tape. It's proven to be the right stuff for the job.

Oh yeah, I was once almost stranded 20Ks from any kind of possible assistance by a tube patch that
was less than optimally applied so I am now particular about things I do have some control over.
Using fibreglass packing tape as rim tape just seems to be tempting fate.

Cheerz, Lynzz

Alexey Merz <[email hidden]> wrote:
: got lucky.

: I was on my road bike, descending from the summit parking lot on Mt. Ascutney,Vermont. This is
: 3.7 miles averaging 12%. As I was passing a pickup truck about halfway down, BANG, there goes my
: front tire.

If it went ba"BANG" then the rim strip is not guilty of the puncture. Because if the spoke caused
the flat it would have leaked silently into the tire casing.

What you had was a tire that lifted off the rim allowing the tube to escape and explode. Very common
on an improperly mounted tire.

--------------------------------
Bob Masse' [email hidden]
--------------------------------

(Alexey Merz) may have said:

From here on out, I simply will not ride wheels without proper rim strips.

Food for thought: wide cloth-type adhesive tape from a first aid kit, in an emergency, makes a
decent temporary substitute for rim strip. The adhesive is a [censored] to get off if left there for too
long, though, so it's not good for the long term. I learned this trick on a Sunday many years ago,
when a rubber rim strip broke apart at the valve hole as I was doing a flat repair while I was too
far from home. There was a Walgreen's nearby, though, and they had both a tire patch kit and a roll
of adhesive tape. (I learned about the adhesive being a pain to get off only when I pulled the tire
off again about three months later. Polite people could have learned all manner of new and impolite
things to say by listening to me as I cleaned up that mess.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

Lindsay Rowlands <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Eric Murray <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

I have no idea if the Ritchey tape is avoids this problem..

My bike was sitting inside when the tyre deflated - I was probably out at the time. Same star shaped
puncture. Didn't see the cause so put another tube in - a few minutes later - bang.

That was with Ritchey tape. It was about 2 years old.

I think the answer is check the tape and replace it if it looks like it is starting to wear around
the spoke holes.

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Alexey Merz <[email hidden]> wrote:
: got lucky.

: I was on my road bike, descending from the summit parking lot on Mt. Ascutney,Vermont. This is
: 3.7 miles averaging 12%. As I was passing a pickup truck about halfway down, BANG, there goes my
: front tire.

If it went ba"BANG" then the rim strip is not guilty of the puncture. Because if the spoke caused
the flat it would have leaked silently into the tire casing.

Nope. BOTH punctures occurred at the same location, over the hole where the the rim strip
had failed.

Quoted message said:

What you had was a tire that lifted off the rim allowing the tube to escape and explode.

Nope. See above.

Quoted message said:

Very common on an improperly mounted tire.

The failure mode was obvious, for reasons described in my OP.

-Alex

Alexey Merz <[email hidden]> wrote:
: [email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
:> Alexey Merz <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> : got lucky.
:>
:> : I was on my road bike, descending from the summit parking lot on Mt. Ascutney,Vermont. This is
:> : 3.7 miles averaging 12%. As I was passing a pickup truck about halfway down, BANG, there goes
:> : my front tire.
:>
:>
:> If it went ba"BANG" then the rim strip is not guilty of the puncture. Because if the spoke caused
:> the flat it would have leaked silently into the tire casing.

: Nope. BOTH punctures occurred at the same location, over the hole where the the rim strip
: had failed.

:> What you had was a tire that lifted off the rim allowing the tube to escape and explode.

: Nope. See above.

:> Very common on an improperly mounted tire.

: The failure mode was obvious, for reasons described in my OP.

: -Alex

Then don't embellish your story with words like "BANG". Since obviously this noise could not have
been made with the type of flat you claim you had.

--------------------------------
Bob Masse' [email hidden]
--------------------------------

may have said:

Then don't embellish your story with words like "BANG". Since obviously this noise could not have
been made with the type of flat you claim you had.

Y'know, I have to say, this merits just one form of response.

Plonk.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

(Alexey Merz) may have said:

I repaired the hole with a Park "instant patch", descended with great caution, and within a mile a
second failure occurred. I repatched with two more instant patches, one shoved into the spoke hole,
and rode the remaining 27 miles home without incident.

Just out of curiosity, was the second pop from the same rim hole's exposure, or had the tape failed
over another hole on the rim? And did the second pop go through the patch, or did the patch not line
up with the spoke hole? I'd have expected the Park patch to last a bit longer than that if it were
riding on the rim hole, although I would have been unsurprised to have it fail as well in a somewhat
longer period.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Alexey Merz <[email hidden]> wrote:
: [email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
:> Alexey Merz <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> : got lucky.

:> : I was on my road bike, descending from the summit parking lot on Mt. Ascutney,Vermont. This
:> : is 3.7 miles averaging 12%. As I was passing a pickup truck about halfway down, BANG, there
:> : goes my front tire.
:>
:>
:> If it went ba"BANG" then the rim strip is not guilty of the puncture. Because if the spoke
:> caused the flat it would have leaked silently into the tire casing.

: Nope. BOTH punctures occurred at the same location, over the hole where the the rim strip had
: failed.

:> What you had was a tire that lifted off the rim allowing the tube to escape and explode.

: Nope. See above.

:> Very common on an improperly mounted tire.

: The failure mode was obvious, for reasons described in my OP.

: -Alex

Then don't embellish your story with words like "BANG". Since obviously this noise could not have
been made with the type of flat you claim you had.

There was a report, loud enough to startle me. The guy in the truck that I was passing clearly heard
it. No, it was not as loud as a blowout with a silk tubular on a track bike. But I was not aware
that typing BANG implied a sound impulse of no less than 108 dB.

By the way, with your last post you've hit your rudeness quota for the month; now you have to be
polite for at least the next 30 days.

-Alex Merz

Alexey Merz <[email hidden]> wrote:
: [email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
:> Alexey Merz <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> : [email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
:> :> Alexey Merz <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> :> : got lucky.
:>
:> :> : I was on my road bike, descending from the summit parking lot on Mt. Ascutney,Vermont. This
:> :> : is 3.7 miles averaging 12%. As I was passing a pickup truck about halfway down, BANG, there
:> :> : goes my front tire.
:> :>
:> :>
:> :> If it went ba"BANG" then the rim strip is not guilty of the puncture. Because if the spoke
:> :> caused the flat it would have leaked silently into the tire casing.
:>
:> : Nope. BOTH punctures occurred at the same location, over the hole where the the rim strip had
:> : failed.
:>
:> :> What you had was a tire that lifted off the rim allowing the tube to escape and explode.
:>
:> : Nope. See above.
:>
:> :> Very common on an improperly mounted tire.
:>
:> : The failure mode was obvious, for reasons described in my OP.
:>
:> : -Alex
:>
:>
:>
:>
:> Then don't embellish your story with words like "BANG". Since obviously this noise could not have
:> been made with the type of flat you claim you had.

: There was a report, loud enough to startle me. The guy in the truck that I was passing clearly
: heard it. No, it was not as loud as a blowout with a silk tubular on a track bike. But I was not
: aware that typing BANG implied a sound impulse of no less than 108 dB.

: By the way, with your last post you've hit your rudeness quota for the month; now you have to be
: polite for at least the next 30 days.

: -Alex Merz

Alex,

Sorry if you think I am being rude. I really don't mean to be. But this is a TECH GROUP. If you
report hearing a loud bang and then get a flat tire then I am correct in my response of what caused
your flat, and It wasn't the Rim strip.

It is in the FAQ and has been reported in this group time and again over the years and has been
experienced by most bicyclists.

Let's all be nice again.

--------------------------------
Bob Masse' [email hidden]
--------------------------------

Werehatrack <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Alexey Merz) may have said:

I repaired the hole with a Park "instant patch", descended with great caution, and within a mile
a second failure occurred. I repatched with two more instant patches, one shoved into the spoke
hole, and rode the remaining 27 miles home without incident.

Just out of curiosity, was the second pop from the same rim hole's exposure, or had the tape
failed over another hole on the rim? And did the second pop go through the patch, or did the patch
not line up with the spoke hole? I'd have expected the Park patch to last a bit longer than that
if it were riding on the rim hole, although I would have been unsurprised to have it fail as well
in a somewhat longer period.

To repair the first puncture, I used a *new* inner tube instead of trying to patch the old one.
I applied the patch *to the spoke hole* where the rim strip had failed. The second puncture was
in exactly the same location, and the instant patch had torn. I repaired the second puncture
with a second new tube, and two instant patches over the spoke hole. That repair held long
enough to get me home.

-Alex

(Alexey Merz) may have said:

To repair the first puncture, I used a *new* inner tube instead of trying to patch the old one. I
applied the patch *to the spoke hole* where the rim strip had failed.

I think I'd have tried the same thing.

Quoted message said:

The second puncture was in exactly the same location, and the instant patch had torn. I repaired
the second puncture with a second new tube, and two instant patches over the spoke hole. That
repair held long enough to get me home.

Good job that you were carrying that much gear. I'd have been looking for a phone, a ride, or a
store at that point.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

Alexey Merz said:

From here on out, I simply will not ride wheels without proper rim strips.

On Saturday, while standing around talking about bikes, my front tire went "Pssshshshshsshhhhhh". I
opened it up, and my factory-applied rim tape had shuffled off to the side, exposing a nipple hole.

The edge of the nipple hole was rough and sharp (Mavic CXP-21 if anybody cares), and there was a
largish hole in the tube.

I put some duct tape on the offending section of rim, fixed (later replaced, as my Nashbar glueless
patch failed) the tube, and went on to ride my longest ride ever.

If I have time tonight, I'm going to dismount both tires, remove the strips, dremel the edges of the
nipple holes smooth, and apply new rim strips that I bought on Saturday.

Question for anybody: Any reason I _shouldn't_ dremel the nipple-hole-edges smooth? They're sharp,
rough, and I think even a little burred. But other than that, I like the rim! 🙂

Quoted message said:

-Alexey Merz

--
Rick Onanian

Alexey Merz said:

trying to patch the old one. I applied the patch *to the spoke hole* where the rim strip had
failed. The second puncture was in exactly the same location, and the instant patch had torn. I
repaired the second puncture with a second new tube, and two instant patches over the spoke hole.
That repair held long enough to get me home.

You need to carry some duct tape.

I carry a few feet of it, rolled up onto itself. The result is a 1cm thick roll of duct tape.

Quoted message said:

-Alex

--
Rick Onanian

Quoted message said:

Alex,

Sorry if you think I am being rude. I really don't mean to be. But this is a TECH GROUP. If you
report hearing a loud bang and then get a flat tire then I am correct in my response of what
caused your flat, and It wasn't the Rim strip.

It is in the FAQ and has been reported in this group time and again over the years and has been
experienced by most bicyclists.

Let's all be nice again.

--------------------------------
Bob Masse' [email hidden]
--------------------------------

Bob,

Well how come I heard a loud bang when exactly the same thing happened to me?(See my previous post).
The failure was due to rim tape failing and leaving a hole which the tube expanded in to. Spokes
were not an issue as it was an aero(ish) rim with the spokes set deep inside.

Didn't measure the sound level in dB, sorry;-)

Can't let this one go.

Dave

Werehatrack <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 18 Aug 2003 14:04:42 -0700, [email hidden] (Alexey Merz) may have said:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The second puncture was in exactly the same location, and the instant patch had torn. I repaired
the second puncture with a second new tube, and two instant patches over the spoke hole. That
repair held long enough to get me home.

Good job that you were carrying that much gear. I'd have been looking for a phone, a ride, or a
store at that point.

I only recently started carrying this much stuff. I got a somewhat larger saddlebag though, and had
to fill it with something. I was out of marbles (lost 'em somewhere along the way) so I filled it
with bike repair stuff.

-Alex

ernews.com> <[email hidden]>:

Organization:

DaveH <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> Alex,
:>
:> Sorry if you think I am being rude. I really don't mean to be. But this is a TECH GROUP. If you
:> report hearing a loud bang and then get a flat tire then I am correct in my response of what
:> caused your flat, and It wasn't the Rim strip.
:>
:> It is in the FAQ and has been reported in this group time and again over the years and has been
:> experienced by most bicyclists.
:>
:> Let's all be nice again.
:>
:> --------------------------------
:> Bob Masse' [email hidden]
:> --------------------------------
: Bob,

: Well how come I heard a loud bang when exactly the same thing happened to me?(See my previous
: post). The failure was due to rim tape failing and leaving a hole which the tube expanded in to.
: Spokes were not an issue as it was an aero(ish) rim with the spokes set deep inside.

: Didn't measure the sound level in dB, sorry;-)

: Can't let this one go.

: Dave

FROM THE FAQ...

Begin Quote-------

Tube Failure in Clinchers

Riders occasionally tell about a tube that blew out with a loud bang INSIDE their tire, leaving
the tube with a long slash. The tube blew out, but not as described. If there was a bang, the
tube was outside the tire. That is, the tire lifted off the rim and fell back in place after
the tube burst.

Tubes do not burst inside tire casings, although they may leak, the most they can do is give
off an audible hiss, assuming it is otherwise quiet enough. An un-socketed double walled rim
can make a dull pop if the tube is exposed to the inner rim volume. The concept that a tube can
explode inside a tire is dangerous, because it leads people to believe that tubes can
mysteriously fail without apparent cause INSIDE a tire. With few exceptions, the cause is an
improperly mounted tire.

Without understanding the cause, a rider may continue to risk a blowout, without realizing that
tire lift-off can be caused by the tube lying between the rim and the tire bead. In this
position, the tube prevents the tire from seating properly in the hook of the rim, a condition
that, under the right circumstances, will cause a blowout.

This cannot occur inside the tire casing. To prevent blow-off, the tire seat must be inspected
by pushing the tire away from the rim, upon which the tube should not exposed at any point
around the tire.

Valve stem separation is another common failure, but it is less dangerous because it usually
occurs while inflating the tire. If it occurs while riding it causes a slow leak, as the
vulcanized brass stem separates from the tube. When this occurs, the stem can be pulled out
entirely to leave a small hole into which a valve stem from a latex tube of a tubular tire will
fit. Stems from tubulars have a mushroom end, a clamp washer, and a locknut, that fit ideally.
Such a used stem should be part of a tire patch kit.
-----------------
End Quote

<>

Quoted message said:

: Well how come I heard a loud bang when exactly the same thing happened to me?(See my previous
: post). The failure was due to rim tape failing and leaving a hole which the tube expanded in to.
: Spokes were not an issue as it was an aero(ish) rim with the spokes set deep inside.

: Didn't measure the sound level in dB, sorry;-)

: Can't let this one go.

: Dave

FROM THE FAQ...

Begin Quote-------

Tube Failure in Clinchers

Riders occasionally tell about a tube that blew out with a loud bang INSIDE their tire,
leaving the tube with a long slash. The tube blew out, but not as described. If there was a
bang, the tube was outside the tire. That is, the tire lifted off the rim and fell back in
place after the tube burst.

If that's the case, there should be a distinct hole on the side of the tube where the tire blew off
the rim, right? I'm not the OP, but I don't recall him saying that there was more than one hole, or
that it was on the side of the tube. What say, OP?

Quoted message said:

Tubes do not burst inside tire casings, although they may leak, the most they can do is give
off an audible hiss, assuming it is otherwise quiet enough. An un-socketed double walled rim
can make a dull pop if the tube is exposed to the inner rim volume. The concept that a tube
can explode inside a tire is dangerous, because it leads people to believe that tubes can
mysteriously fail without apparent cause INSIDE a tire. With few exceptions, the cause is an
improperly mounted tire.

This was probably written before Shamals and Cosmics, etc. came out. I know that the spoke holes go
MUCH deeper with the deep section aero rims than your typical MA40, Open Pro, etc. rims. I've had
one of those blow through an electrical tape "rim strip" and can verify that it hisses. I haven't
had my Cosmics blow out that way 'cause I'm using Velox, so can't verify what they sound like. If
you think about it, there's much more room for a tube to blow rather than hiss in a deep section
rim. Dunno, like I said, I'm running Velox, so can't confirm or deny this one. OP?

Quoted message said:

Without understanding the cause, a rider may continue to risk a blowout, without realizing
that tire lift-off can be caused by the tube lying between the rim and the tire bead. In this
position, the tube prevents the tire from seating properly in the hook of the rim, a
condition that, under the right circumstances, will cause a blowout.

This cannot occur inside the tire casing. To prevent blow-off, the tire seat must be
inspected by pushing the tire away from the rim, upon which the tube should not exposed at
any point around the tire.

Valve stem separation is another common failure, but it is less dangerous because it usually
occurs while inflating the tire. If it occurs while riding it causes a slow leak, as the
vulcanized brass stem separates from the tube. When this occurs, the stem can be pulled out
entirely to leave a small hole into which a valve stem from a latex tube of a tubular tire
will fit. Stems from tubulars have a mushroom end, a clamp washer, and a locknut, that fit
ideally. Such a used stem should be part of a tire patch kit.
-----------------
End Quote

I really wish that people would stop repeating/believing EVERYTHING the FAQ says without thinking
first. Not that there aren't some really good answers, but things change, and the FAQ may not
address a specific circumstance.

Mike