Rim brakes are 'dangerous' too

Skippy E&OE? said:

Following the 'disc front brakes spew the wheel out' thread, I
noticed the following

http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/11625.0.html

Quoted message said:

Now, if SRAM do a recall for this, then wouldn't some manufacturers
have been doing likewise with their QRs or forks or disc calipers?

That sounds like a bunch of newspeak:

# An outside manufacturer supplied the affected titanium alloy and its
# specifications fell outside of those set by SRAM. The cause for
# failure is an incorrect grain structure of the raw titanium
# material. SRAM does certify all materials used from outside
# suppliers and this particular material did not meet the standards
# set. SRAM is no longer working with this supplier.

"Outside supplier" whoa, who expected SRAM to manufacture anything,
let alone titanium screws? I'll wait and see whether they replace
that screw with steel or another titanium one. I'm also waiting to
see if the moving arm of that caliper also gets the hollow treatment.
Just think how many grams could be spared there. Nothing as small as
titanium vs. steel where three grams are saved. Oh maybe not, because
they probable didn't use a titanium nut on the titanium screw.

Jobst Brandt

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Skippy said:

Following the 'disc front brakes spew the wheel out' thread, I
noticed the following

http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/11625.0.html

Quoted message said:

Now, if SRAM do a recall for this, then wouldn't some manufacturers
have been doing likewise with their QRs or forks or disc calipers?

That sounds like a bunch of newspeak:

The link was from a news web site.

Quoted message said:

# An outside manufacturer supplied the affected titanium alloy and its
# specifications fell outside of those set by SRAM. The cause for
# failure is an incorrect grain structure of the raw titanium
# material. SRAM does certify all materials used from outside
# suppliers and this particular material did not meet the standards
# set. SRAM is no longer working with this supplier.

"Outside supplier" whoa, who expected SRAM to manufacture anything,
let alone titanium screws? I'll wait and see whether they replace
that screw with steel or another titanium one. I'm also waiting to
see if the moving arm of that caliper also gets the hollow treatment.
Just think how many grams could be spared there. Nothing as small as
titanium vs. steel where three grams are saved. Oh maybe not, because
they probable didn't use a titanium nut on the titanium screw.

Jobst Brandt

I wasn't condoning the use of Ti. It does sound like a good oportunity to
revert the design to a more appropriate material.

I'd be surprised if they made all their bolts and nuts in-house.

Skippy
E&OE

Skippy E&OE said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Following the 'disc front brakes spew the wheel out' thread, I
noticed the following

http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/11625.0.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now, if SRAM do a recall for this, then wouldn't some
manufacturers have been doing likewise with their QRs or forks or
disc calipers?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From the Velonews item above. That sounds like a bunch of
newspeak:

# An outside manufacturer supplied the affected titanium alloy and its
# specifications fell outside of those set by SRAM. The cause for
# failure is an incorrect grain structure of the raw titanium
# material. SRAM does certify all materials used from outside
# suppliers and this particular material did not meet the standards
# set. SRAM is no longer working with this supplier.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Outside supplier" whoa, who expected SRAM to manufacture anything,
let alone titanium screws? I'll wait and see whether they replace
that screw with steel or another titanium one. I'm also waiting to
see if the moving arm of that caliper also gets the hollow
treatment. Just think how many grams could be spared there.
Nothing as small as titanium vs. steel where three grams are saved.
Oh maybe not, because they probable didn't use a titanium nut on
the titanium screw.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

I wasn't condoning the use of Ti. It does sound like a good
oportunity to revert the design to a more appropriate material.

Quoted message said:

I'd be surprised if they made all their bolts and nuts in-house.

You should be surprised if anyone makes nuts and bolts in-house.
That's like a clothing company making paper to wrap their product, or
a bicycle company having a steel mill to produce frame tubes.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Skippy E&OE said:

Quoted message said:

> Following the 'disc front brakes spew the wheel out' thread, I
> noticed the following

http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/11625.0.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Now, if SRAM do a recall for this, then wouldn't some
> manufacturers have been doing likewise with their QRs or forks or
> disc calipers?
From the Velonews item above. That sounds like a bunch of
newspeak:

# An outside manufacturer supplied the affected titanium alloy and its
# specifications fell outside of those set by SRAM. The cause for
# failure is an incorrect grain structure of the raw titanium
# material. SRAM does certify all materials used from outside
# suppliers and this particular material did not meet the standards
# set. SRAM is no longer working with this supplier.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Outside supplier" whoa, who expected SRAM to manufacture anything,
let alone titanium screws? I'll wait and see whether they replace
that screw with steel or another titanium one. I'm also waiting to
see if the moving arm of that caliper also gets the hollow
treatment. Just think how many grams could be spared there.
Nothing as small as titanium vs. steel where three grams are saved.
Oh maybe not, because they probable didn't use a titanium nut on
the titanium screw.
Jobst Brandt

I wasn't condoning the use of Ti. It does sound like a good
oportunity to revert the design to a more appropriate material.
I'd be surprised if they made all their bolts and nuts in-house.

You should be surprised if anyone makes nuts and bolts in-house.
That's like a clothing company making paper to wrap their product, or
a bicycle company having a steel mill to produce frame tubes.

Jobst Brandt

I was, in fact, surprised to read this:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/japan.html#miyata

Doug Landau said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> Following the 'disc front brakes spew the wheel out' thread, I
>> noticed the following

http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/11625.0.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> Now, if SRAM do a recall for this, then wouldn't some
>> manufacturers have been doing likewise with their QRs or forks
>> or disc calipers?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> From the Velonews item above. That sounds like a bunch of
> newspeak:

# An outside manufacturer supplied the affected titanium alloy and
its
# specifications fell outside of those set by SRAM. The cause for
# failure is an incorrect grain structure of the raw titanium
# material. SRAM does certify all materials used from outside
# suppliers and this particular material did not meet the standards
# set. SRAM is no longer working with this supplier.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> "Outside supplier" whoa, who expected SRAM to manufacture
> anything, let alone titanium screws? I'll wait and see whether
> they replace that screw with steel or another titanium one. I'm
> also waiting to see if the moving arm of that caliper also gets
> the hollow treatment. Just think how many grams could be spared
> there. Nothing as small as titanium vs. steel where three grams
> are saved. Oh maybe not, because they probable didn't use a
> titanium nut on the titanium screw.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I wasn't condoning the use of Ti. It does sound like a good
oportunity to revert the design to a more appropriate material.
I'd be surprised if they made all their bolts and nuts in-house.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You should be surprised if anyone makes nuts and bolts in-house.
That's like a clothing company making paper to wrap their product,
or a bicycle company having a steel mill to produce frame tubes.

Quoted message said:

I was, in fact, surprised to read this:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/japan.html#miyata

That's a bit different. Bicycle tubing is unique to bicycles and a
sufficiently large production would warrant bringing that process
in-house. Toady that may no longer be appropriate, there being enough
bicycle manufacturers in the region for a steel company to make frame
tubes as they have in Europe and GB. Of course today with the
emphasis on "space age technology" steel is no longer IN for the upper
market.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Skippy E&OE said:

Quoted message said:

> Following the 'disc front brakes spew the wheel out' thread, I
> noticed the following

http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/11625.0.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Now, if SRAM do a recall for this, then wouldn't some
> manufacturers have been doing likewise with their QRs or forks or
> disc calipers?
From the Velonews item above. That sounds like a bunch of
newspeak:

# An outside manufacturer supplied the affected titanium alloy and its
# specifications fell outside of those set by SRAM. The cause for
# failure is an incorrect grain structure of the raw titanium
# material. SRAM does certify all materials used from outside
# suppliers and this particular material did not meet the standards
# set. SRAM is no longer working with this supplier.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Outside supplier" whoa, who expected SRAM to manufacture anything,
let alone titanium screws? I'll wait and see whether they replace
that screw with steel or another titanium one. I'm also waiting to
see if the moving arm of that caliper also gets the hollow
treatment. Just think how many grams could be spared there.
Nothing as small as titanium vs. steel where three grams are saved.
Oh maybe not, because they probable didn't use a titanium nut on
the titanium screw.
Jobst Brandt

I wasn't condoning the use of Ti. It does sound like a good
oportunity to revert the design to a more appropriate material.
I'd be surprised if they made all their bolts and nuts in-house.

You should be surprised if anyone makes nuts and bolts in-house.
That's like a clothing company making paper to wrap their product, or
a bicycle company having a steel mill to produce frame tubes.

Jobst Brandt

Sram stuff, altho made by a factory for Sram, is not owned or
controlled by Sram..why they cannot control pricing. When a
distributor buys Sram, they don't get from Sram, but a factory rep.
Sram is getting like Dean was, just making decals.

Skippy said:

Following the 'disc front brakes spew the wheel out' thread, I noticed the
following

http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/11625.0.html

Now, if SRAM do a recall for this, then wouldn't some manufacturers have
been doing likewise with their QRs or forks or disc calipers?

Food for thought

Skippy
E&OE

"material issue, not design issue".

timely post since the rear mounted disk brake blowhards apparently can't
grasp the concept of there being materials issues with a front caliper
design, or at least, with the materials currently used. but paying more
for higher grade materials and pushing more weight up hills is
apparently ok for "engineers" [and non-engineers] to bleat about because
we need to accommodate opinions of those who are demonstrably
under-edumacated or don't use this stuff.

jim beam said:

paying more
for higher grade materials and pushing more weight up hills is
apparently ok for "engineers"...

Pushing fifteen grams more metal up a hill is fine with me.
Especially if it meant I'd never ever have to worry about disk brakes
ejecting my front wheel, no matter how extreme my downhilling was.

For "princess and the pea" types, I guess fifteen grams might be a big
deal.

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

paying more
for higher grade materials and pushing more weight up hills is
apparently ok for "engineers"...

Pushing fifteen grams more metal up a hill is fine with me.
Especially if it meant I'd never ever have to worry about disk brakes
ejecting my front wheel, no matter how extreme my downhilling was.

For "princess and the pea" types, I guess fifteen grams might be a big
deal.

idiot.

jim beam said:

idiot.

Jackass.

Hank Wirtz said:

jim beam said:

idiot.

Jackass.

Dork.

Fritz said:

Hank Wirtz said:

jim beam said:

idiot.

Jackass.

Dork.

Bombastador.

Bill Sornson said:

Fritz said:

On 16 Feb 2007 21:54:15 -0800, "Hank Wirtz" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Feb 16, 6:02 pm, jim beam <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> idiot.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jackass.

Quoted message said:

Dork.

Bombastador.

Conquistador?