Right tools for the job.

Colin Murphy said:

My toolbox is a sad hodge-podge of bits of metal collected over the years.
I want to update and or replace it but I don't know what I should really
have to make up a complete set of tools for 'basic' maintainance. What
should I have?

To maintain your family bikes you really aren't going to need much of
a toolkit. A few basics plus some bike specific items will cover
almost anything you need to do. I wouldn't recommend trying to buy an
all in one toolkit type collection. These tend to be full of very poor
quality tools unless you spend Proper Money, and if you do that,
you'll be splashing out on stuff you're not going to need.

In your position I'd look to have some (combination) spanners of
appropriate size, a few screwdrivers, couple of pairs of pliers and
some form of hex head set (allen keys). You'll need to cut cables too
so a junior hacksaw (for outers) and a pair of side cutters will allow
you to do that.

As specific jobs crop up you'll want some more cycling specific tools
like a chain whip and cassette remover etc.

There will be other bit's and pieces as well, but there's no need for
you to rush out and buy everything now, get some basics sorted
(perhaps what you already have will cover this?) and buy items as the
need arises.

Quoted message said:

I would like to start by improving my range of 'spanners'. Suggestions
please for sizes and types of 'spanners' that I, a). should definately
have, and, b). would be nice to have.

The most important spanner you'll need will be a pedal spanner. Pedals
have a habit of wanting to stay put and can need a fair amount of
grunt to remove. A [censored] spanner for this application will fail, likely
making a very nasty mess of your pedal or your hand, and possibly
both.

I use a Snap On long pattern 15mm for pedals, but they're expensive
(£30) if you have no other reason for owning one. You can buy special
pedal spanners but I don't have any experience with these so can't
really recommend one. Perhaps others will have advice here.

Most pedals seem to be 15mm, but not all, so check what you need
before buying.

As for using spanners elsewhere on bikes I almost never do. Much
prefer a 1/4 drive socket set. Using a small ratchet and sockets is
faster and easier than spanners, plus the tool provides better access
in many places. This would be a more expensive route for you initially
though, so depending on budget it might be best to just measure what
sizes are needed for the bikes you have and then buy the handful of
individual spanners you'll want. (There are 8mm 10mm and 14mm bolts on
one of my old hacks)

Most bikes nowadays use allen bolt type fasteners instead of standard
nuts, so a set of hex head keys will be essential for you. Again I use
hex socket drivers with the ratchet but a simple set of allen keys
will be perfectly adequate and much cheaper to boot.

Quoted message said:

I would be interested to hear views
on the merits of using open spanners instead of ring spanners and
adjustable spanners instead of 'MoleGrips" like the 'C' spanner I'm
having to do without tonight.

Mole grips and adjustables are mostly "get out of jail" type tools.
It's not going to be difficult or expensive to buy exactly the tools
you need so I'd avoid 'em myself.

Having said that I've used large vice-grips to remove BB lock rings
myself without any damage done. I've never bothered to buy a C spanner
because the only cup and cone BB's I've removed have always been
destined for the bin to be replaced with cartridges, for which I have
the right tool.

Similar applies to open spanners. Sometimes for reasons of access etc
there's no option but to use an open ended wrench, but it's not best
practice. As it happens the torque required for most bike related jobs
is relatively low, so you can probably get away with open spanners but
given the choice you are better using the ring or a socket.

If you are buying a few new spanners then I'd suggest you go with the
combination type, open at one end and same size ring the other. Should
cover most eventualities.

Quoted message said:

I would
also appreciate your views on minimum quality of tool, price or brand, and
recommended sources to get them from.

Facom tools are absolutely first class. Professional quality with
excellent warranty - you'll never go wrong choosing Facom hand tools.
They are also surprisingly cheap. About a tenner for a set of pliers,
a few pounds each for spanners and screwdrivers. That's Homebase own
brand type money.

There are several places online that you can buy Facom but I'd suggest
you seek out your local dealer so you can get in the shop and put your
hands on them to help choose. Just ring around local tool places from
the Yellow Pages till you find the Facom place.

If I were to recommend any tool purchase to a home mechanic/DIY'er it
would be a Facom 1/4 drive socket set. It'll last your entire life and
will be useful on every job you'll encounter from trying to fix the
washing machine to servicing your bike and car.

Prime Tools do Facom online:

http://www.primetools.co.uk/system/index.html

Click the "Special Offers" link then go to page 4 for the 1/4 drive
sets. The one for £54.95 is a great little package.

There is plenty of good stuff on the other pages too.

Incidently, if you end up buying from your local dealer, make sure you
ask for a discount off list price. They expect to give one and should
happily oblige with at least 15% off.

Quoted message said:

There must be other things apart from spanners that I should have but
ignorance leaves my hazy on exactly what is needed. A chain tool and a
crank extractor I already have though I'm not even sure they will fit the
bikes we currently have, which include a Ridgeback Speed, 10 year old
Raleigh 3 speed bike and some smaller Ridgebacks for the children.

Mike Dyason is great for cheap (but adequate quality) bike specific
tools, they also don't charge anything for P&P.

http://www.mwdyason.ltd.uk/shop.asp?no_category=23&text_company=TOOLS

I can vouch for their cassette remover, chain splitter, chain whip,
crank extractor and BB tool and even their super cheap allen keys
(£1.10 !!).

None of these are top quality, but with careful use they all seem more
than a match for home bike maintenance. Given the prices I think they
are great value.

The only thing from them I have been disappointed with was the pedal
spanner which I returned without using. It was stamped out of sheet
metal and looked very suspect but this was several years ago so maybe
the current one is better?

Right, I'd better shut up now for fear of boring the world to death 🙂
--

"Bob"

'The people have spoken, the [censored]'

Email address is spam trapped.
To reply directly remove the beverage.

http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/toollists.shtml

"Colin Murphy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My toolbox is a sad hodge-podge of bits of metal collected over the years.
I want to update and or replace it but I don't know what I should really
have to make up a complete set of tools for 'basic' maintainance. What
should I have?

To define some terms - I will want to maintain the family bikes used for
commuting and leisure. 'Basic' maintainance, for me, would include minor
adjustments to keep the bike running as well as some servicing like
greasing and cleaning bottom brackets and cones in in wheel hubs.

This has been prompted by my search today for a 'C' spanner to undo the
locking ring on a bottom bracket. None of the shops in London had any,
some didn't even know what I wanted - 'Evans to Betsy is all I can say.

I would like to start by improving my range of 'spanners'. Suggestions
please for sizes and types of 'spanners' that I, a). should definately
have, and, b). would be nice to have. I would be interested to hear views
on the merits of using open spanners instead of ring spanners and
adjustable spanners instead of 'MoleGrips'[1], etc, also specialist
spanners, like the 'C' spanner I'm having to do without tonight. I would
also appreciate your views on minimum quality of tool, price or brand, and
recommended sources to get them from.

There must be other things apart from spanners that I should have but
ignorance leaves my hazy on exactly what is needed. A chain tool and a
crank extractor I already have though I'm not even sure they will fit the
bikes we currently have, which include a Ridgeback Speed, 10 year old
Raleigh 3 speed bike and some smaller Ridgebacks for the children.

[1] - Surely, in times of need, you've all done it?

Call me Bob said:

The most important spanner you'll need will be a pedal spanner. Pedals
have a habit of wanting to stay put and can need a fair amount of
grunt to remove. A [censored] spanner for this application will fail, likely
making a very nasty mess of your pedal or your hand, and possibly
both.

I can vouch for this. 🙁

d.

Colin Murphy said:

My toolbox is a sad hodge-podge of bits of metal collected over the
years.
I want to update and or replace it but I don't know what I should really
have to make up a complete set of tools for 'basic' maintainance. What
should I have?

Although expensive compared to spanners I think a workstand is useful even
for basic maintenance. Sorting out gears and brakes is so much easier with
the wheels off the ground, the bike the right way up and both hands free.

Colin

in message <[email hidden]>, Colin

Murphy (') said:

My toolbox is a sad hodge-podge of bits of metal collected over the
years. I want to update and or replace it but I don't know what I
should really have to make up a complete set of tools for 'basic'
maintainance. What should I have?

To define some terms - I will want to maintain the family bikes used
for commuting and leisure. 'Basic' maintainance, for me, would include
minor adjustments to keep the bike running as well as some servicing
like greasing and cleaning bottom brackets and cones in in wheel hubs.

This has been prompted by my search today for a 'C' spanner to undo
the locking ring on a bottom bracket. None of the shops in London had
any, some didn't even know what I wanted - 'Evans to Betsy is all I
can say.

Stillson wrench or a cold chisel gently tapped with the heel of the
hand. Of course a C spanner would be better, but the Stillson works
fine if you're careful (and so does the cold chisel, although it tends
to mark the ring).

Quoted message said:

I would like to start by improving my range of 'spanners'. Suggestions
please for sizes and types of 'spanners' that I, a). should definately
have, and, b). would be nice to have.

Metric combination spanners: 8mm(a), 10mm(a), 11mm(b), 12mm(b), 13mm(a),
15mm(a - pedals), 17mm(b).

Also metric Allen(?sp) keys, 1.5mm, 2mm, 3mm, 4mm, 5mm, 5.5mm, 6mm, 8mm.
All (a).

Crosshead screwdriver, plain screwdriver, both small.

Quoted message said:

I would be interested to hear
views on the merits of using open spanners instead of ring spanners
and adjustable spanners instead of 'MoleGrips'[1], etc, also
specialist spanners, like the 'C' spanner I'm having to do without
tonight. I would also appreciate your views on minimum quality of
tool, price or brand, and recommended sources to get them from.

An adjustable spanner is useful but should be used with discretion;
better to have the right one.

Quoted message said:

There must be other things apart from spanners that I should have but
ignorance leaves my hazy on exactly what is needed. A chain tool and a
crank extractor I already have though I'm not even sure they will fit
the bikes we currently have

A chain tool used to be a must. The problem is as chains are getting
narrower the pressure needed to set and remove pins is getting higher,
and a chain tool for ten speed chain is an expensive and specialist bit
of kit. I would aim to move all the chains onto SRAM magic links so as
not to need chain tools - or at least not need them so often.

A crank puller is a must. Mine (which was bought sometime in the early
eighties) continues to fit all the bikes I currently have, including
Shimano, Stronglight, Truvative and Campagnolo cranksets.

Depending on what you have you also need tools to get your cassette
apart. Campag ones have a lock-ring with internal splines, don't know
about Shimano. And a chain-whip would also be nice to have (BTW, have
you seen the *outrageous* price Campag want for a 'ten speed chain
whip'?)

Also, for wheels, spoke keys and a cone spanner.

I recently bought myself a Park Tools cable cutter which has been a
revelation - now all my cables are cleanly cut, and no more horrible
jaggy ends or cables that don't run smoothly. I also bought myself a
cheapish Minoura workstand which I now would not be without; and a
wheelbuilding stand, which is nice to have but gets much less use.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Human history becomes more and more a race between
;; education and catastrophe.
H.G. Wells, "The Outline of History"

In message <[email hidden]>, Colin
Murphy <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

My toolbox is a sad hodge-podge of bits of metal collected over the years.
I want to update and or replace it but I don't know what I should really
have to make up a complete set of tools for 'basic' maintainance. What
should I have?

to add to what has already been written

As well as spanners, I have a 'Y' shaped tool with (I think) 8, 9 and
10mm sockets on each end. Picked up in a bike shop years ago, I find it
very useful.

I have a set of spanners - two spanners with 2 x 32mm headset spanners,
15mm for the headset, pedal and 'the 'C' spanner
you mentioned.

And yes a work stand makes so much difference, to the ease and the
frequency of maintenance.

Mine is the Minoura WS300
--
Chris French, Leeds

Colin Murphy said:

My toolbox is a sad hodge-podge of bits of metal collected over the years.
I want to update and or replace it but I don't know what I should really
have to make up a complete set of tools for 'basic' maintainance. What
should I have?

If you've already got a Dremel, you can save yourself a
few quid on a cable cutter. I use the cutting wheel on
mine (actually a cheaper Black & Decker version) for
cables and it works fine.

I'll second Bob's vote for a proper pedal spanner. I changed
mine a couple weeks ago with one that didn't really fit, and
what a PITA that was.

My favourite tool bargain is my Wilko brand socket set -
fantastic value for about a tenner (IIRC).

Also, not really a tool, but a track pump is really handy.

--
jc

Remove the -not from email

Simon Brooke said:

Metric combination spanners: 8mm(a), 10mm(a), 11mm(b), 12mm(b),
13mm(a), 15mm(a - pedals), 17mm(b).

Can you remind me what "a" and "b" means? Thanks.

I would add 9mm to the list: some brakes and derailleurs require it, plus
a 14mm is occasionally useful.

~PB

Sorry. Don't reply, I've realised "a" and "b" refer to Colin's "should
have" and "nice to have".

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

I would add 9mm to the list: some brakes and derailleurs require it, plus
a 14mm is occasionally useful.

Yes, 14mm socket too, for crank bolts.
--

"Bob"

'The people have spoken, the [censored]'

Email address is spam trapped.
To reply directly remove the beverage.

Colin Murphy said:

I would like to start by improving my range of 'spanners'. Suggestions
please for sizes and types of 'spanners' that I, a). should definately
have, and, b). would be nice to have. I would be interested to hear
views on the merits of using open spanners instead of ring spanners

Ring spanners are good for high torque, but sometimes there's only room
for an open spanner. "Combination" spanners are the solution with open
one end and ring the other.

Quoted message said:

and adjustable spanners instead of 'MoleGrips'

Use them as little as possible! (but yes I have resorted to them and much
worse!). Large adjustable spanners are handy for headset locknuts and
various remover tools.

Quoted message said:

specialist spanners, like the 'C' spanner I'm having to do without
tonight.

Depends on make and model of the component.

Quoted message said:

I would also appreciate your views on minimum quality of
tool, price or brand, and recommended sources to get them from.

Combination spanners and non-bike-specific tools from local hardware shop
or:
http://www.justoffbase-tools.co.uk/tools.asp
(The cheapest Draper ones they sell seem good to me).

In addition to any normal small set, 15mm is handy for wheel nuts (for
bikes without quick release wheels), and it's good to have *two* of the
same size spanners for hub locknuts (often 17mm).

Hex sockets and some kind of wrench for them are also useful sometimes,
but not essential. You should have various screwdrivers including Philips
No.1 & 2.

Inexpensive but adequate: pedal spanner, allen keys, tyre levers,
cassette remover, block remover, chain whip, bottom bracket tools, crank
extractor, cone spanners, cable cutters from:
http://www.mwdyason.ltd.uk/shop.asp (I think the separate tools, which
I have, might be of better quality than those in the full kit).

Those bottom bracket tools might be okay for your bikes, but you might
prefer the best Tacx BB tools, depending on BB model.

Buddy Spokey (red and yellow), Topeak chain tool from:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/

Tacx headset spanners and BB tools:
http://www.parker-international.co.uk -- enquire as not all tools are
listed on website. (This dealer is cheaper than many others).

~PB

in message <[email hidden]>, Pete Biggs

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

Metric combination spanners: 8mm(a), 10mm(a), 11mm(b), 12mm(b),
13mm(a), 15mm(a - pedals), 17mm(b).

Can you remind me what "a" and "b" means? Thanks.

I would add 9mm to the list: some brakes and derailleurs require it,
plus a 14mm is occasionally useful.

In the OP's parlance, (a) was important, and (b) was nice to have.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

my other car is #<Subr-Car: #5d480>
;; This joke is not funny in emacs.

in message <[email hidden]>, Call me Bob

(') said:

Pete Biggs said:

I would add 9mm to the list: some brakes and derailleurs require it,
plus a 14mm is occasionally useful.

Yes, 14mm socket too, for crank bolts.

Usually comes as part of the crank-puller tool.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for
murther
-- Roburt Burns, 'Thanksgiving For a National Victory'

Colin asked for some tools advice....

Regarding C-spanners - your best bet is probably a bike-shop, though you can
get proper engineering ones from a proper engineers' suppliers but the ends
of proper ones can be too big for the slots in bike parts.

I'd disagree strongly with another poster, and wouldn't touch Draper with a
[censored] stick. I dare say it's possible to be lucky but every bit of Draper
kit I've bought has been useless. I'd also agree with another (different)
poster that Facom are particularly high quality and (relatively) reasonably
priced. Their screwdrivers in particular are the best I've ever come across
and seem to be sold for quite good prices in unlikely shops like Machine
Mart (a store otherwise best avoided !) and Halfords even. Other good makes
include King [censored], Gedore, Sykes-Picavant. I used to swear by Britool, but
their newer stuff doesn't seem to be the same. Snap-on are excellent, but
outragously expensive.

Regarding sizes - well it rather depends on what you've got on your bike(s).
A good set of combination spanners (open, one end, ring the other) might be
£50 upwards so unless you want them for general use, you might want to buy
them singly. Given the force is not generally that great for working on a
bike you can make do with an adjustable (wash my mouth out !). Bahco are
probably the best - a 6" one will do for most things. Probably worth a
proper spanner for the pedals - remembering to turn the right (wrong) way on
whichever side it is !

Good allen keys are cheap enough. Fold-up sets by Bahco, Facom or other
proper make are only 5-10 quid. On my bike I replaced all the screws / bolts
with cap-screws (allen key bolts) so I now only ever need to carry a set of
allen keys with me on the road and don't have the hassle of rounded philips
heads on gear adjusters etc.

At the risk of teaching my grandmother to suck eggs remember that philips
and pozidrive screws and screwdrivers are not the same thing. Cheap
screwdrivers (and some expensive ones) of either variety are very poor buys.

A 1/4" socket set can be handy for smaller nuts / bolts, but not essential -
depends somewhat on the mix of fasteners on your bike.

Regarding cable cutters - I use a piano-wire cutter by Lindstrom which I got
cheap (would otherwise be £30 or more I expect).

You'll also needs some pliers - mine are mainly Elliot Lucas (excellent),
but not sure if these are still going. I'd expect Facom to be a good bet
otherwise.

Hope this is some help.

Hywel

Hywel Davies said:

Colin asked for some tools advice....

Regarding C-spanners - your best bet is probably a bike-shop, though
you can get proper engineering ones from a proper engineers'
suppliers but the ends of proper ones can be too big for the slots in
bike parts.

Most bike parts require Allen keys nowdays. Thin cone and headset
spanners are available from cycle equipment suppliers.

Quoted message said:

I'd disagree strongly with another poster,

That'll be me. Just about Draper?

Quoted message said:

and wouldn't touch Draper
with a [censored] stick. I dare say it's possible to be lucky but every
bit of Draper kit I've bought has been useless.

Have you used their combination spanners? Polished chrome vanadium, good
shape. Do you need any better better/harder than that? They are thicker
than average, which is a problem occasionally (but also sometimes a help
to prevent rounding), but apart from that, what the hell is wrong with
them? Good value, IMO.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > I'd
disagree strongly with another poster,

Quoted message said:

That'll be me. Just about Draper?

Quoted message said:

and wouldn't touch Draper
with a [censored] stick. I dare say it's possible to be lucky but every
bit of Draper kit I've bought has been useless.

Have you used their combination spanners? Polished chrome vanadium, good
shape. Do you need any better better/harder than that? They are thicker
than average, which is a problem occasionally (but also sometimes a help
to prevent rounding), but apart from that, what the hell is wrong with
them? Good value, IMO.

You were obviously lucky. I've not bought those particular items, but I did
have a ratchet that lasted less than a week (light amateur use), some
countersinks which didn't cut, and my uncle had a mitre saw (picture framing
thing) which cut on the [censored] (ie useless). I admitedly have a canvas tool
roll which is OK and I think a wire brush but there does seem to be a trend.
To put it in perspective, I'm given to understand Draper, Kamasa etc just
buy in tools from various far-eastern manufacturers so some is OK, and some
is [censored], even for the same item. I previously had a Kamasa, very cheap,
socket set, which was excellent. When it was nicked, I bought a new one
exactly the same which was made of monkey-metal and complete rubbish. Every
single thing I used broke or bent. If you buy facom, Gedore, Sykes or
whatever, the stuff works . Don't have to break the bank for Snap-on.

Cheers

Hywel

Hywel