Right I'll start again

Trevor said:

As my last thread (calling walking Doctors etc) got severely hijacked.

Can any of you medical folk possibly give an explanation of why I get great
discomfort in my right leg/hip joint after one hour walking on the flat, but
can walk 3 hrs / 1000 m uphill and a further 2 downhill and not have a
twinge ( I have a 20 year history of lower back pain). My doctor or
physiotherapist can't suggest why this should be.

Trevor
East Yorkshire

Have you tried homeopathy?

Sorry :-)
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.

PeterC said:

Trevor said:

As my last thread (calling walking Doctors etc) got severely hijacked.

Quoted message said:

Can any of you medical folk possibly give an explanation of why I get great
discomfort in my right leg/hip joint after one hour walking on the flat, but
can walk 3 hrs / 1000 m uphill and a further 2 downhill and not have a
twinge ( I have a 20 year history of lower back pain). My doctor or
physiotherapist can't suggest why this should be.

Quoted message said:

Trevor
East Yorkshire

Have you tried homeopathy?

Sorry :-)
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.

I'm not going to help you with an explanation, but I can assure you
that you are not alone. My lower back pain responds to standing still
for a length of time and walking streets, but never gives me bother
carrying a sack over an 8 hour hill day.

Have you tried a podiatrist? You may for instance have one leg
slightly shorter than the other or generally require correction to
your foot shape. Podiatry has certainly helped my foot comfort and
maybe elsewhere too.

Rob

"Trevor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As my last thread (calling walking Doctors etc) got severely hijacked.

Can any of you medical folk possibly give an explanation of why I get
great discomfort in my right leg/hip joint after one hour walking on the
flat, but can walk 3 hrs / 1000 m uphill and a further 2 downhill and not
have a twinge ( I have a 20 year history of lower back pain). My doctor or
physiotherapist can't suggest why this should be.

I cant help either except to say that I have often have knee pain that is a
major problem on uphill and downhill slopes but no problem at all on the
flat. I guess it has something to do with the strike of your feet(and
consequently up your body as shock) on flat ground and the angle and strain
of muscles comparatively on the flat or one slopes. Spend all your time
walking up and down hills would be the obvious(but admittedly not very
helpful) answer.

Rob Devereux wrote

Quoted message said:

I cant help either except to say that I have often have knee pain that is
a major problem on uphill and downhill slopes but no problem at all on the
flat. I guess it has something to do with the strike of your feet(and
consequently up your body as shock) on flat ground and the angle and
strain of muscles comparatively on the flat or one slopes.

I suspect also it has something to do with the fact that the
surfaces of the cartilidge lining the joints do not wear
evenly, with extra wear being caused in the places where
extra pressure is born when, for example, lifting the body
up a step with the associated lever force. Then, when those
bits *do* wear slightly more the joint doesn't run quite
the way that it did when doing the less stressful movements.

Chris

On Nov 12, 3:16 pm, "Trevor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As my last thread (calling walking Doctors etc) got severely hijacked.

Can any of you medical folk possibly give an explanation of why I get great
discomfort in my right leg/hip joint after one hour walking on the flat, but
can walk 3 hrs / 1000 m uphill and a further 2 downhill and not have a
twinge ( I have a 20 year history of lower back pain). My doctor or
physiotherapist can't suggest why this should be.

So you feel this is in your hip joint, not a muscle?

The most reasonable explanation is a nerve pinch that is being
pinched by the muscles you don't use when ascending or descending,
but use extensively walking flat. The suggestion about a podiatrist
isn't
a bad one since the biggest difference in walking between the two
modes is your feet. But it does affect the lower back differently too
so it still could be a job for a neurosurgeon.

The message <[email hidden]>
from "Trevor" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Can any of you medical folk possibly give an explanation of why I get great
discomfort in my right leg/hip joint after one hour walking on the
flat, but
can walk 3 hrs / 1000 m uphill and a further 2 downhill and not have a
twinge ( I have a 20 year history of lower back pain). My doctor or
physiotherapist can't suggest why this should be.

IANAMF but we seem very short of medical types in this ng so I will
hazard a guess that it is something to do with your length (or just
possibly frequency) of stride. Have you tried shortening your stride
length or walking a bit slower on the flat than you normally do?

I too suffer from lower back pain some of the time but not to any great
extent when walking. It might be brought on by too much bending or
trying to lift too great a weight* but it is positively at its worst
sitting in a low easy chair and not at all pleasant on a hard chair in
front of the PC.

*From time to time I do 3 dimensional jigsaws aka dry stone walling.

--
Roger Chapman
Nearest Marilyn still to be visited - Great Orme.
89 miles as the crow flies,
considerably more as the walker drives.

"me" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Nov 12, 3:16 pm, "Trevor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As my last thread (calling walking Doctors etc) got severely hijacked.

Can any of you medical folk possibly give an explanation of why I get
great
discomfort in my right leg/hip joint after one hour walking on the flat,
but
can walk 3 hrs / 1000 m uphill and a further 2 downhill and not have a
twinge ( I have a 20 year history of lower back pain). My doctor or
physiotherapist can't suggest why this should be.

So you feel this is in your hip joint, not a muscle?

The most reasonable explanation is a nerve pinch that is being
pinched by the muscles you don't use when ascending or descending,
but use extensively walking flat. The suggestion about a podiatrist
isn't
a bad one since the biggest difference in walking between the two
modes is your feet. But it does affect the lower back differently too
so it still could be a job for a neurosurgeon.

Have never heard of a podiatrist so will look that up. MY GP is sending me
to a neurosugeon and for an MRI scan (I paid for one myself a couple of
years ago but it only showed a little wear)

Quoted message said:

"me" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Nov 12, 3:16 pm, "Trevor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As my last thread (calling walking Doctors etc) got severely hijacked.

Can any of you medical folk possibly give an explanation of why I get
great
discomfort in my right leg/hip joint after one hour walking on the flat,
but
can walk 3 hrs / 1000 m uphill and a further 2 downhill and not have a
twinge ( I have a 20 year history of lower back pain). My doctor or
physiotherapist can't suggest why this should be.

So you feel this is in your hip joint, not a muscle?

The most reasonable explanation is a nerve pinch that is being
pinched by the muscles you don't use when ascending or descending,
but use extensively walking flat. The suggestion about a podiatrist
isn't
a bad one since the biggest difference in walking between the two
modes is your feet. But it does affect the lower back differently too
so it still could be a job for a neurosurgeon.

Have never heard of a podiatrist so will look that up. MY GP is sending me
to a neurosugeon and for an MRI scan (I paid for one myself a couple of
years ago but it only showed a little wear)

Quoted message said:

On Nov 12, 8:16 pm, "Trevor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As my last thread (calling walking Doctors etc) got severely hijacked.

Can any of you medical folk possibly give an explanation of why I get great
discomfort in my right leg/hip joint after one hour walking on the flat, but
can walk 3 hrs / 1000 m uphill and a further 2 downhill and not have a
twinge ( I have a 20 year history of lower back pain). My doctor or
physiotherapist can't suggest why this should be.

Trevor
East Yorkshire

Hi Trevor,

the human body is a fickle thing, isn't it?

Seeing an orthopaedic neurosurgeon (rather than a neurosurgical
neurosurgeon) for a thorough examination will probably take things
forwards for you. However I think that with symptoms like that, I very
much doubt that any spinal surgery would be recommended to you. The
number of times I've seen GPs and, to a lesser extent,
physiotherapists misdiagnose back/hip/leg pain is countless.

When you say that the pain is in your "leg", do you mean in the thigh,
or does it go below the knee into the calf/foot as well?

Pain from the hip joint is usually felt in the groin, whereas pain at
the side of the "hip" is usually pain radiating from the back (or
greater trochanteric bursitis).

Firstly they need to find out exactly where the pain is coming from -
1) Is it from the facet joints and/or discs in the lower back?
2) Is it caused by nerve root irritation in the lower back i.e
sciatica?
3) Is it from the hip joint, or even the knee joint i.e. early
osteoarthritis?
4) Is it muscular?
5) Is it aggravated by you having a funny gait or unequal leg lengths?
6) Is it something else unusual or rare?

X-rays of your back and hip, along with an MRI scan (which you've
already had) of the back will certainly help, but a thorough physical
examination by an experienced orthopaedic doctor is probably the most
important thing. Getting one in a busy NHS clinic is another matter
though - if you are very worried then it may be worth paying for a
30min private consultation.

If they can pinpoint the cause of the pain (in a significant minority
of patients the exact cause cannot be found) then treatment (likely to
be non-surgical) can be directed as appropriate. If they can't help
you improve the pain then at least you can be reassured that there is
nothing serious going on. I know it's not what you want to hear, but a
guy in his 50s (I seem to remember you saying that's how old you are)
who can walk for 5 hours up and down 1000m hills is in pretty good
overall nick.

Hope this helps.

Gustav.

Quoted message said:

On Nov 12, 8:16 pm, "Trevor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As my last thread (calling walking Doctors etc) got severely hijacked.

Quoted message said:

Can any of you medical folk possibly give an explanation of why I get great
discomfort in my right leg/hip joint after one hour walking on the flat, but
can walk 3 hrs / 1000 m uphill and a further 2 downhill and not have a
twinge ( I have a 20 year history of lower back pain). My doctor or
physiotherapist can't suggest why this should be.

Quoted message said:

Trevor
East Yorkshire

Hi Trevor,

the human body is a fickle thing, isn't it?

Seeing an orthopaedic neurosurgeon (rather than a neurosurgical
neurosurgeon) for a thorough examination will probably take things
forwards for you. However I think that with symptoms like that, I very
much doubt that any spinal surgery would be recommended to you. The
number of times I've seen GPs and, to a lesser extent,
physiotherapists misdiagnose back/hip/leg pain is countless.

When you say that the pain is in your "leg", do you mean in the thigh,
or does it go below the knee into the calf/foot as well?

Pain from the hip joint is usually felt in the groin, whereas pain at
the side of the "hip" is usually pain radiating from the back (or
greater trochanteric bursitis).

Firstly they need to find out exactly where the pain is coming from -
1) Is it from the facet joints and/or discs in the lower back?
2) Is it caused by nerve root irritation in the lower back i.e
sciatica?
3) Is it from the hip joint, or even the knee joint i.e. early
osteoarthritis?
4) Is it muscular?
5) Is it aggravated by you having a funny gait or unequal leg lengths?
6) Is it something else unusual or rare?

X-rays of your back and hip, along with an MRI scan (which you've
already had) of the back will certainly help, but a thorough physical
examination by an experienced orthopaedic doctor is probably the most
important thing. Getting one in a busy NHS clinic is another matter
though - if you are very worried then it may be worth paying for a
30min private consultation.

If they can pinpoint the cause of the pain (in a significant minority
of patients the exact cause cannot be found) then treatment (likely to
be non-surgical) can be directed as appropriate. If they can't help
you improve the pain then at least you can be reassured that there is
nothing serious going on. I know it's not what you want to hear, but a
guy in his 50s (I seem to remember you saying that's how old you are)
who can walk for 5 hours up and down 1000m hills is in pretty good
overall nick.

Hope this helps.

Gustav.

I'll pick up on Trevor's query about Podiatrists - they are the
specialists who deal with foot mechanics and how we walk; they are on
the par with physios, etc. A podiatrist will look at how you walk and
will be able to identify irregular leg length, incorrect foot shape
and so on. Their primary tool is orthotics for your shoes, either
specifically shape to each foot or off the shelf - and there are very
many more than you will find in an outdoor shop.

If the specialists you are going to see do not come up with a
satisfactory answer, then get referred to a good podiatrist. Like
doctors and specialists, there are good ones and not so good ones,
which possibly relates to their own experiences in life. I've found
one in the local hospital who runs marathons so is more successful
with my feet (and I think clearing knee pain) than the previous one I
was using.

I think Gustav needs a little more experience with older hill walkers
- I'm 65 and still happy to do a 8 to 10 hour day with 5000 to 6000
feet of climbing, and so are my similarly aged friends. Ironically I
was less fit in my 50's, but retirement is great!

Rob

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Nov 12, 8:16 pm, "Trevor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As my last thread (calling walking Doctors etc) got severely hijacked.

Can any of you medical folk possibly give an explanation of why I get
great
discomfort in my right leg/hip joint after one hour walking on the flat,
but
can walk 3 hrs / 1000 m uphill and a further 2 downhill and not have a
twinge ( I have a 20 year history of lower back pain). My doctor or
physiotherapist can't suggest why this should be.

Trevor
East Yorkshire

Hi Trevor,

the human body is a fickle thing, isn't it?

Seeing an orthopaedic neurosurgeon (rather than a neurosurgical
neurosurgeon) for a thorough examination will probably take things
forwards for you. However I think that with symptoms like that, I very
much doubt that any spinal surgery would be recommended to you. The
number of times I've seen GPs and, to a lesser extent,
physiotherapists misdiagnose back/hip/leg pain is countless.

When you say that the pain is in your "leg", do you mean in the thigh,
or does it go below the knee into the calf/foot as well?

Pain from the hip joint is usually felt in the groin, whereas pain at
the side of the "hip" is usually pain radiating from the back (or
greater trochanteric bursitis).

Firstly they need to find out exactly where the pain is coming from -
1) Is it from the facet joints and/or discs in the lower back?
2) Is it caused by nerve root irritation in the lower back i.e
sciatica?
3) Is it from the hip joint, or even the knee joint i.e. early
osteoarthritis?
4) Is it muscular?
5) Is it aggravated by you having a funny gait or unequal leg lengths?
6) Is it something else unusual or rare?

X-rays of your back and hip, along with an MRI scan (which you've
already had) of the back will certainly help, but a thorough physical
examination by an experienced orthopaedic doctor is probably the most
important thing. Getting one in a busy NHS clinic is another matter
though - if you are very worried then it may be worth paying for a
30min private consultation.

If they can pinpoint the cause of the pain (in a significant minority
of patients the exact cause cannot be found) then treatment (likely to
be non-surgical) can be directed as appropriate. If they can't help
you improve the pain then at least you can be reassured that there is
nothing serious going on. I know it's not what you want to hear, but a
guy in his 50s (I seem to remember you saying that's how old you are)
who can walk for 5 hours up and down 1000m hills is in pretty good
overall nick.

Hope this helps.

Gustav.

Thanks Gustav

The discomfort is in the joint where the right leg meets the hip, but at the
same time the skin at the front of the thigh from the hip to the knee goes
numb. It even did this as I was standing in a queue for 15 mins. I also
have numb toes at the ends on both feet.

"Rob G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Nov 12, 8:16 pm, "Trevor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As my last thread (calling walking Doctors etc) got severely hijacked.

Quoted message said:

Can any of you medical folk possibly give an explanation of why I get
great
discomfort in my right leg/hip joint after one hour walking on the
flat, but
can walk 3 hrs / 1000 m uphill and a further 2 downhill and not have a
twinge ( I have a 20 year history of lower back pain). My doctor or
physiotherapist can't suggest why this should be.

Quoted message said:

Trevor
East Yorkshire

Hi Trevor,

the human body is a fickle thing, isn't it?

Seeing an orthopaedic neurosurgeon (rather than a neurosurgical
neurosurgeon) for a thorough examination will probably take things
forwards for you. However I think that with symptoms like that, I very
much doubt that any spinal surgery would be recommended to you. The
number of times I've seen GPs and, to a lesser extent,
physiotherapists misdiagnose back/hip/leg pain is countless.

When you say that the pain is in your "leg", do you mean in the thigh,
or does it go below the knee into the calf/foot as well?

Pain from the hip joint is usually felt in the groin, whereas pain at
the side of the "hip" is usually pain radiating from the back (or
greater trochanteric bursitis).

Firstly they need to find out exactly where the pain is coming from -
1) Is it from the facet joints and/or discs in the lower back?
2) Is it caused by nerve root irritation in the lower back i.e
sciatica?
3) Is it from the hip joint, or even the knee joint i.e. early
osteoarthritis?
4) Is it muscular?
5) Is it aggravated by you having a funny gait or unequal leg lengths?
6) Is it something else unusual or rare?

X-rays of your back and hip, along with an MRI scan (which you've
already had) of the back will certainly help, but a thorough physical
examination by an experienced orthopaedic doctor is probably the most
important thing. Getting one in a busy NHS clinic is another matter
though - if you are very worried then it may be worth paying for a
30min private consultation.

If they can pinpoint the cause of the pain (in a significant minority
of patients the exact cause cannot be found) then treatment (likely to
be non-surgical) can be directed as appropriate. If they can't help
you improve the pain then at least you can be reassured that there is
nothing serious going on. I know it's not what you want to hear, but a
guy in his 50s (I seem to remember you saying that's how old you are)
who can walk for 5 hours up and down 1000m hills is in pretty good
overall nick.

Hope this helps.

Gustav.

I'll pick up on Trevor's query about Podiatrists - they are the
specialists who deal with foot mechanics and how we walk; they are on
the par with physios, etc. A podiatrist will look at how you walk and
will be able to identify irregular leg length, incorrect foot shape
and so on. Their primary tool is orthotics for your shoes, either
specifically shape to each foot or off the shelf - and there are very
many more than you will find in an outdoor shop.

If the specialists you are going to see do not come up with a
satisfactory answer, then get referred to a good podiatrist. Like
doctors and specialists, there are good ones and not so good ones,
which possibly relates to their own experiences in life. I've found
one in the local hospital who runs marathons so is more successful
with my feet (and I think clearing knee pain) than the previous one I
was using.

I think Gustav needs a little more experience with older hill walkers
- I'm 65 and still happy to do a 8 to 10 hour day with 5000 to 6000
feet of climbing, and so are my similarly aged friends. Ironically I
was less fit in my 50's, but retirement is great!

Rob

Thanks Rob. I'll mention the podiatrist idea to the neurosurgeon and my GP
(when I say my GP, I get a different one every time I go in which may or may
not be a good thing when treating a chronic condition).

Just hope I can also get into these kind of treks when in my 60's. I go down
to the Pyrenees a lot (11 weeks per year) and will be there next week,
though there'll perhaps be too much snow for getting too high up on my own.

On Nov 14, 11:43 am, "Trevor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Nov 12, 8:16 pm, "Trevor" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As my last thread (calling walking Doctors etc) got severely hijacked.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can any of you medical folk possibly give an explanation of why I get
great
discomfort in my right leg/hip joint after one hour walking on the flat,
but
can walk 3 hrs / 1000 m uphill and a further 2 downhill and not have a
twinge ( I have a 20 year history of lower back pain). My doctor or
physiotherapist can't suggest why this should be.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Trevor
East Yorkshire

Quoted message said:

Hi Trevor,

Quoted message said:

the human body is a fickle thing, isn't it?

Quoted message said:

Seeing an orthopaedic neurosurgeon (rather than a neurosurgical
neurosurgeon) for a thorough examination will probably take things
forwards for you. However I think that with symptoms like that, I very
much doubt that any spinal surgery would be recommended to you. The
number of times I've seen GPs and, to a lesser extent,
physiotherapists misdiagnose back/hip/leg pain is countless.

Quoted message said:

When you say that the pain is in your "leg", do you mean in the thigh,
or does it go below the knee into the calf/foot as well?

Quoted message said:

Pain from the hip joint is usually felt in the groin, whereas pain at
the side of the "hip" is usually pain radiating from the back (or
greater trochanteric bursitis).

Quoted message said:

Firstly they need to find out exactly where the pain is coming from -
1) Is it from the facet joints and/or discs in the lower back?
2) Is it caused by nerve root irritation in the lower back i.e
sciatica?
3) Is it from the hip joint, or even the knee joint i.e. early
osteoarthritis?
4) Is it muscular?
5) Is it aggravated by you having a funny gait or unequal leg lengths?
6) Is it something else unusual or rare?

Quoted message said:

X-rays of your back and hip, along with an MRI scan (which you've
already had) of the back will certainly help, but a thorough physical
examination by an experienced orthopaedic doctor is probably the most
important thing. Getting one in a busy NHS clinic is another matter
though - if you are very worried then it may be worth paying for a
30min private consultation.

Quoted message said:

If they can pinpoint the cause of the pain (in a significant minority
of patients the exact cause cannot be found) then treatment (likely to
be non-surgical) can be directed as appropriate. If they can't help
you improve the pain then at least you can be reassured that there is
nothing serious going on. I know it's not what you want to hear, but a
guy in his 50s (I seem to remember you saying that's how old you are)
who can walk for 5 hours up and down 1000m hills is in pretty good
overall nick.

Quoted message said:

Hope this helps.

Quoted message said:

Gustav.

Thanks Gustav

The discomfort is in the joint where the right leg meets the hip, but at the
same time the skin at the front of the thigh from the hip to the knee goes
numb. It even did this as I was standing in a queue for 15 mins. I also
have numb toes at the ends on both feet

I can only point out that skin can only go numb by an effect on the
nerves. You may have multiple issues, but the nerves are one of them.
It can be alot of places, due to alot of causes, but a nerve is
getting
"touched" in a way it should not. I've got "numb" toes and an
affected calf, and the nerve is getting touched in my back between
L5-S1 due to damage from a rupture disk.

Nerves = neurologist/neurosurgeon.

Rob G said:

I think Gustav needs a little more experience with older hill walkers
- I'm 65 and still happy to do a 8 to 10 hour day with 5000 to 6000
feet of climbing, and so are my similarly aged friends. Ironically I
was less fit in my 50's, but retirement is great!

Rob

But people "age" at different rates. You and your walking friends are
lucky. A significant proportion of people in their 60s are suffering
from degenerative joint disease with some people developing symptoms
in their 40s and 50s.
The problem is that there comes a point where you have to slow down
and reduce your activities.

A 65 year-old man goes to his doctor complaining that he can only walk
15 miles in a day due to early arthritis in his hip, whereas he used
to be able to manage 30. Unfortunately the doctor is going to tell him
to grin and bear it, take a couple of paracetamol and be satisfied
with 15 miles per day. The doctor isn't going to offer him a hip
replacement because, although it may increase his pain and walking
distance, if he walks 30 mile per day on his artificial hip he'll wear
the thing out in a few years and could well end up crippled by the
time he's 70.

Quoted message said:

Rob G said:

I think Gustav needs a little more experience with older hill walkers
- I'm 65 and still happy to do a 8 to 10 hour day with 5000 to 6000
feet of climbing, and so are my similarly aged friends. Ironically I
was less fit in my 50's, but retirement is great!

Quoted message said:

Rob

But people "age" at different rates. You and your walking friends are
lucky. A significant proportion of people in their 60s are suffering
from degenerative joint disease with some people developing symptoms
in their 40s and 50s.
The problem is that there comes a point where you have to slow down
and reduce your activities.

A 65 year-old man goes to his doctor complaining that he can only walk
15 miles in a day due to early arthritis in his hip, whereas he used
to be able to manage 30. Unfortunately the doctor is going to tell him
to grin and bear it, take a couple of paracetamol and be satisfied
with 15 miles per day. The doctor isn't going to offer him a hip
replacement because, although it may increase his pain and walking
distance, if he walks 30 mile per day on his artificial hip he'll wear
the thing out in a few years and could well end up crippled by the
time he's 70.

I am a member of a group of 30 plus from university days (late 1960's)
who have all walked and climbed most of their lives. There are only
two ladies who have had to drop out and that is due to injuries rather
than degeneration. I am a bit older than most but there are few less
than 60 now and all are still active. What does that say for our
group ? Are we a statistical freak or is degeneration a state of mind
which besets those who really are 'wanting' to slow up.

There was never a time when I would do 30 miles in a day, but I could
do 20 plus with 7 or 8000 feet of ascent in my youth, but that didn't
last all that long. As long as I can convince myself that I can do a
reasonable day on the hills, then I will be able to do that - it's all
in the mind and pain can be shut out if needs be.

Rob

Rob G said:

Quoted message said:

Rob G said:

I think Gustav needs a little more experience with older hill walkers
- I'm 65 and still happy to do a 8 to 10 hour day with 5000 to 6000
feet of climbing, and so are my similarly aged friends. Ironically I
was less fit in my 50's, but retirement is great!
Rob

But people "age" at different rates. You and your walking friends are
lucky. A significant proportion of people in their 60s are suffering
from degenerative joint disease with some people developing symptoms
in their 40s and 50s.
The problem is that there comes a point where you have to slow down
and reduce your activities.

A 65 year-old man goes to his doctor complaining that he can only walk
15 miles in a day due to early arthritis in his hip, whereas he used
to be able to manage 30. Unfortunately the doctor is going to tell him
to grin and bear it, take a couple of paracetamol and be satisfied
with 15 miles per day. The doctor isn't going to offer him a hip
replacement because, although it may increase his pain and walking
distance, if he walks 30 mile per day on his artificial hip he'll wear
the thing out in a few years and could well end up crippled by the
time he's 70.

I am a member of a group of 30 plus from university days (late 1960's)
who have all walked and climbed most of their lives. There are only
two ladies who have had to drop out and that is due to injuries rather
than degeneration. I am a bit older than most but there are few less
than 60 now and all are still active. What does that say for our
group ? Are we a statistical freak or is degeneration a state of mind
which besets those who really are 'wanting' to slow up.

There was never a time when I would do 30 miles in a day, but I could
do 20 plus with 7 or 8000 feet of ascent in my youth, but that didn't
last all that long. As long as I can convince myself that I can do a
reasonable day on the hills, then I will be able to do that - it's all
in the mind and pain can be shut out if needs be.

Rob

USUALLY, the more you do, the more you CAN do, for far longer than those
who sit at home all day. As you say, those with injuries may have to
slow down. It's sad, but...

Do what you can to find out what is wrong and get fit again.

I used to be able to do 10-15 miles happily. Then I stopped and got fat
and lazy. After that the fibro set in, and now sometimes a mile is
hard, and five or six feels like a real achievement. Sure as eggs is
eggs if I sat on me bum all day I wouldn't reach the front door in a
couple of years!

I'm still fitter and slimmer than I was 15 years ago, and can walk
farther on a good day, because I do. You'll have to chase me with that
wheel chair!

--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Rob G said:

Quoted message said:

On Nov 14, 12:46 pm, Rob G <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think Gustav needs a little more experience with older hill walkers
- I'm 65 and still happy to do a 8 to 10 hour day with 5000 to 6000
feet of climbing, and so are my similarly aged friends. Ironically I
was less fit in my 50's, but retirement is great!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Rob

Quoted message said:

But people "age" at different rates. You and your walking friends are
lucky. A significant proportion of people in their 60s are suffering
from degenerative joint disease with some people developing symptoms
in their 40s and 50s.
The problem is that there comes a point where you have to slow down
and reduce your activities.

Quoted message said:

A 65 year-old man goes to his doctor complaining that he can only walk
15 miles in a day due to early arthritis in his hip, whereas he used
to be able to manage 30. Unfortunately the doctor is going to tell him
to grin and bear it, take a couple of paracetamol and be satisfied
with 15 miles per day. The doctor isn't going to offer him a hip
replacement because, although it may increase his pain and walking
distance, if he walks 30 mile per day on his artificial hip he'll wear
the thing out in a few years and could well end up crippled by the
time he's 70.

I am a member of a group of 30 plus from university days (late 1960's)
who have all walked and climbed most of their lives. There are only
two ladies who have had to drop out and that is due to injuries rather
than degeneration. I am a bit older than most but there are few less
than 60 now and all are still active. What does that say for our
group ? Are we a statistical freak or is degeneration a state of mind
which besets those who really are 'wanting' to slow up.

Ah, that explains it then - you're all well-off, middle-class,
university-educated types! Illness, infirmity and early death are much
more common in the lower social classes. I suppose that there are many
reasons - poor diet, higher rates of smoking and drinking, limited
access to healthcare, a life of hard manual-labour (probably not so
much nowadays), lower life expectations, the disability benefits
culture.....
You are right that, to a certain extent, growing old and pain are all
in the mind.

Kate XXXXXX said:

USUALLY, the more you do, the more you CAN do, for far longer than those
who sit at home all day.

Too true! A lot of DODs (doddery old dears) are in that state due to doing
very little for many years.
OK, at 60 I'm a 'youngster', but I do all my shopping by bike (about 15-20
miles per trip) (it causes chaos in the aisles) and that, done correctly,
helps with walking.
In the last week or two, I've started breaking in my Scarpa boot and
getting my feet accustomed to walking (after 30 years' cycling) and, after
a few walks all in single-figure miles, find that I'm faster and better
uphills on the bike. Downside is, yesterday I damaged the chainwheel
attacking a hill - I blame the shopping in the panniers.

Personally, I'll keep going for as long as I can. I'd rather kill myself on
a hill that's a bit too much than degenerate unaturally!
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.

PeterC said:

In the last week or two, I've started breaking in my Scarpa boot

You might find it easier if you get a second one... ;-)

Quoted message said:

uphills on the bike. Downside is, yesterday I damaged the chainwheel
attacking a hill - I blame the shopping in the panniers.

Worth considering a trailer for Serious Shopping. A good one (e.g., a
Yak BOB) affects the handling of the bike less than heavy panniers and
is considerably easier to load, especially for awkward shapes.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/