Riding with clipless pedals

Dave Vandervies wrote:
:: So, my bike now has shiny new combo platform/clipless pedals, since I
:: had it in getting some work done anyways and my transportation budget
:: had room for some new stuff this fall. The sandals haven't come in
:: yet (they should be arriving at the beginning of next week).
::
:: This means that soon I'll need to learn how to ride with clipless
:: pedals.
::
:: Some googling turns up a few collections of instructions, of which
:: <http://www.chainreaction.com/pedalfaq.htm> (the first hit on
:: "clipless pedals"😉 seems to be a representative example. (Poking
:: around at www.sheldonbrown.com didn't turn up anything other than
:: the glossary entries and some mention of them in discussions of
:: other topics - am I missing something there?)
::
:: Besides what's there, is there anything else I should know?
:: Anything I should ask about at the LBS before I leave with the
:: sandals? (I'm assuming that I'm better off bringing the cleats
:: (which they gave me along with the pedals) back in and asking them
:: to put them on instead
:: of trying to do it myself without ever having seen it done before,
:: but wouldn't know what else might be good to not have to do on my
:: own.)
::

Bring your bike and have them put it on the trainer and let you ride for a
while after they have put the cleats on. Practice clipping in/out and note
how your legs feel while pedalling chipped in.

:: Anybody have stories to tell so I won't feel so bad when I fall over
:: the first time I try to stop without unclipping?

I fell 3 times on my first real road ride after making the move. This was
after having practiced riding near my house and on the trainer for an hour.
The reason I fell on the first real ride is because I was riding with a
buddy and I didn't realize that I could not talk to him and unclip at the
same time (being an newbie and all). All 3 times I fell I was nearly
motionless and looking at him while talking (it took 3 falls before I
figured this out!). So take your time and make sure you're completely
clipped out before doing anything else. You can avoid falling, but it is
probably better to expect to fall. Now I don't have such problems, btw.

Yeah, you'll fall a few times. Don't sweat it. Ride in some grass in a
park to practice.

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:40:22 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

(Dave Vandervies) said:

Anybody have stories to tell so I won't feel so bad when I fall over
the first time I try to stop without unclipping?

There's an old saying about pilots who fly airplanes with retractable
gear, but it applies equally well to cyclists with clipless pedals,
"There's those who have and those who will."

Someone suggested practicing on a grass field, but it's not when
you're practicing that you'll do the old horizontal track stand. It's
when you're not thinking about it.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

I've never got past the "as loose as possible" stage. I'm in and out of
them all the time commuting in London, but they've never slipped out
accidentally so I figure there's no need to tighten up (am I missing
something?).
I usually only unclip the left foot to stop, so I've had a few near falls
through suddenly getting tipped right, but keeping the clips loose has meant
I've always just about managed to get the foot down before hitting the deck.

Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:40:22 +0000 (UTC),
<[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

(Dave Vandervies) said:

Anybody have stories to tell so I won't feel so bad when I fall over
the first time I try to stop without unclipping?

I kept reaching down to unhitch the toe strap before stopping.
--
zk

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:37:05 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:40:22 +0000 (UTC),
<[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

(Dave Vandervies) said:

Anybody have stories to tell so I won't feel so bad when I fall over
the first time I try to stop without unclipping?

I kept reaching down to unhitch the toe strap before stopping.

I gave on on the SPD thing for NYC commuting. I fell a few times just
because I forgot that I was clipped in. But it doesn't really make
much sense to be clipped in with traffic all around. There is plenty
of other stuff to watch out for without also having to unclip to
prevent falling under a bus. And there is just about no gain.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Zoul said:

Bring your bike and have them put it on the trainer and let you ride for a
while after they have put the cleats on. Practice clipping in/out and note
how your legs feel while pedalling chipped in.

Will that do anything that riding around in a parking lot or park
(stopping next to a tree or similar balancing aid the first few times if
necessary) won't? It seems to me that clipping in and out would become
automatic based on how often I do it in "normal" riding or a reasonable
approximation thereto - is practicing on a trainer close enough to that
to get past figuring out the mechanics of getting in and out of the pedal?

Quoted message said:

The reason I fell on the first real ride is because I was riding with a
buddy and I didn't realize that I could not talk to him and unclip at the
same time (being an newbie and all). All 3 times I fell I was nearly
motionless and looking at him while talking (it took 3 falls before I
figured this out!).

Heh. Yeah, I've done enough things that are automatic for me and the
person next to me completely forgets to do it because they're distracted
by the same thing I'm focused on, and 'twon't be the first time I'm on
the other side of that either.

Quoted message said:

So take your time and make sure you're completely
clipped out before doing anything else. You can avoid falling, but it is
probably better to expect to fall. Now I don't have such problems, btw.

How long should I expect it to take before it becomes automatic?

dave

--
Dave Vandervies [email hidden]
There is an international standard unit for just about every measurable
quantity, and the US ignores most of them.
--Joona I Palaste in comp.lang.c

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Everett said:

There's an old saying about pilots who fly airplanes with retractable
gear, but it applies equally well to cyclists with clipless pedals,
"There's those who have and those who will."

Someone suggested practicing on a grass field, but it's not when
you're practicing that you'll do the old horizontal track stand. It's
when you're not thinking about it.

Yep. Practicing in a forgiving environment is a good way to get the
mechanics of something to the point where it happens automatically as
soon as the brain says "make it so", but it doesn't do much for actually
remembering *to* do it and not just *how* to, and that's where the real
problems always come up.

I'll have to remember the appropriate terminology for if there are
witnesses, though. "Yep, I'm fine, just practicing my horizontal
trackstand."

dave

--
Dave Vandervies [email hidden]
There is an international standard unit for just about every measurable
quantity, and the US ignores most of them.
--Joona I Palaste in comp.lang.c

Dave Vandervies wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: Roger Zoul <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Bring your bike and have them put it on the trainer and let you
::: ride for a while after they have put the cleats on. Practice
::: clipping in/out and note how your legs feel while pedalling chipped
::: in.
::
:: Will that do anything that riding around in a parking lot or park
:: (stopping next to a tree or similar balancing aid the first few
:: times if necessary) won't? It seems to me that clipping in and out
:: would become automatic based on how often I do it in "normal" riding
:: or a reasonable approximation thereto - is practicing on a trainer
:: close enough to that to get past figuring out the mechanics of
:: getting in and out of the pedal?

My recommendation is based on them getting the cleats right for you..making
sure you can clip in/out easily (there is an adjustment for that), letting
them see your position on the bike (relative to your foot in shoe and on the
pedal) and making sure your knees don't hurt because of the position your
feet are locked into.......You'll still need to do other practicing. You can
do that at home once you're happy while your ability to actually get your
feet in and out.

::
::
::: The reason I fell on the first real ride is because I was riding
::: with a buddy and I didn't realize that I could not talk to him and
::: unclip at the same time (being an newbie and all). All 3 times I
::: fell I was nearly motionless and looking at him while talking (it
::: took 3 falls before I figured this out!).
::
:: Heh. Yeah, I've done enough things that are automatic for me and the
:: person next to me completely forgets to do it because they're
:: distracted by the same thing I'm focused on, and 'twon't be the
:: first time I'm on the other side of that either.
::
::
::: So take your time and make sure you're completely
::: clipped out before doing anything else. You can avoid falling, but
::: it is probably better to expect to fall. Now I don't have such
::: problems, btw.
::
:: How long should I expect it to take before it becomes automatic?

For me, it was after I fell 3 times on the same day. Falling over in the
road, in public, is more embarrassing than anything else. You'll get
motivated real quick (but I do hope you can avoid it).

"Dave Vandervies" wrote: (clip) but it doesn't do much for actually
remembering *to* do it and not just *how* to, and that's where the real
problems always come up.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Precisely! There are two parts to getting unclipped. One of them is easy.
The part that seems insurmountable at first is putting your foot down
unexpectedly, as when you have to make a sudden stop. Remembering to unclip
in advance is totally irrelevant then. What you need is a brain/muscle
memory sequence which gets your foot out of the pedal WHILE YOU'RE FALLING.
I wonder whether practicing deliberate unclipping actually helps in this
regard.

Embarassment? The first time I went out with my new SPD pedals, I rolled up
to a stop sign just as a fire engine was going by. I fell over. They
stopped and offered to help. I got started, and rode on to the next stop
sign. This time I said to myself, "This time I will be ready," and
unclipped my right foot. Fell to the left.

Leo Lichtman wrote:
:: "Dave Vandervies" wrote: (clip) but it doesn't do much for actually
:: remembering *to* do it and not just *how* to, and that's where the
:: real problems always come up.
:: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:: Precisely! There are two parts to getting unclipped. One of them
:: is easy. The part that seems insurmountable at first is putting
:: your foot down unexpectedly, as when you have to make a sudden stop.
:: Remembering to unclip in advance is totally irrelevant then. What
:: you need is a brain/muscle memory sequence which gets your foot out
:: of the pedal WHILE YOU'RE FALLING. I wonder whether practicing
:: deliberate unclipping actually helps in this regard.
::
:: Embarassment? The first time I went out with my new SPD pedals, I
:: rolled up to a stop sign just as a fire engine was going by. I fell
:: over. They stopped and offered to help. I got started, and rode on
:: to the next stop sign. This time I said to myself, "This time I
:: will be ready," and unclipped my right foot. Fell to the left.

Call me dufus, but whenever I unclip I unclip both feet. I just practice
getting clipped in quickly. It works.

On 9/14/05 3:10 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Leo Lichtman"

Quoted message said:

stopped and offered to help. I got started, and rode on to the next stop
sign. This time I said to myself, "This time I will be ready," and
unclipped my right foot. Fell to the left.

Glad to know that I am not the only one to have unclipped one foot only to
then fall the other way! Now I make sure to hold the unclipped leg out a
bit and lean that way to insure that the bike goes that way.
To the OP: I hope you can avoid it but you probably will have an
embarrassing moment or two. Soon, however, unclipping will become second
nature.

Find a grassy park and fall over all you want. Set the tension to a minimum.
This is how I learned. Mountain biking and road biking require a different
mind set. While mtn. biking, I stay clipped in even on the most technical
terrain. On the road, I kick one or both feet out prior to a stop or
perceived threat. The reason is you could get killed on the street.

For me, clipless is the only way to go. I have been hit by a car and the
bike and I separated just like skis. I have had to dab at the ground for
balance on a tough trail and could still get unclipped in time. For me it is
being intimately familiar with your equipment.

There are some applications where clipless makes no sense: efficiency is not
be needed for going to the store etc. If I were truly shooting down hill at
great speeds then clips could be a problem.

I am so used to them now that I have no issues. I use them around
everywhere.

--
I never submitted the whole system of my
opinions to the creed of any party of men
whatever in religion, in philosophy, in
politics, or in anything else where I was
capable of thinking for myself. Such an
addiction is the last degradation of a free
and moral agent.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

"Dave Vandervies" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Everett said:

There's an old saying about pilots who fly airplanes with retractable
gear, but it applies equally well to cyclists with clipless pedals,
"There's those who have and those who will."

Someone suggested practicing on a grass field, but it's not when
you're practicing that you'll do the old horizontal track stand. It's
when you're not thinking about it.

Yep. Practicing in a forgiving environment is a good way to get the
mechanics of something to the point where it happens automatically as
soon as the brain says "make it so", but it doesn't do much for actually
remembering *to* do it and not just *how* to, and that's where the real
problems always come up.

I'll have to remember the appropriate terminology for if there are
witnesses, though. "Yep, I'm fine, just practicing my horizontal
trackstand."

dave

--
Dave Vandervies [email hidden]
There is an international standard unit for just about every measurable
quantity, and the US ignores most of them.
--Joona I Palaste in comp.lang.c

"Dave Vandervies" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, my bike now has shiny new combo platform/clipless pedals, since I
had it in getting some work done anyways and my transportation budget
had room for some new stuff this fall. The sandals haven't come in yet
(they should be arriving at the beginning of next week).

This means that soon I'll need to learn how to ride with clipless pedals.

Some googling turns up a few collections of instructions, of which
<http://www.chainreaction.com/pedalfaq.htm> (the first hit on "clipless
pedals"😉 seems to be a representative example. (Poking around at
www.sheldonbrown.com didn't turn up anything other than the glossary
entries and some mention of them in discussions of other topics - am I
missing something there?)

Besides what's there, is there anything else I should know? Anything I
should ask about at the LBS before I leave with the sandals? (I'm
assuming that I'm better off bringing the cleats (which they gave me
along with the pedals) back in and asking them to put them on instead
of trying to do it myself without ever having seen it done before,
but wouldn't know what else might be good to not have to do on my own.)

Anybody have stories to tell so I won't feel so bad when I fall over
the first time I try to stop without unclipping?

I never really had a problem with unclipping for a stop. Although it's an
awkward feeling at first when you're trying to step off the pedal and your
foot is hooked on, you'll soon get used to it. The problem I had was
clipping in. I wouldn't know better and end up stopping with an uphill
approach. Before I'd get clipped in, I'd either end up stopped and trying to
balance a bike going backwards, or I'd end up missing the cleat in the pedal
and have the force ramming the pedal across the backside of my leg. Be sure
to give yourself plenty of run-off while you get clipped in, and drop to a
low enough gear that you can swing the crank around a rotation or two with
one pedal if need be.

Oh, and don't get into traffic before you get a technique down for clipping
in and gain some patience for the time it takes to get going. Motorists (at
least the one's around me) tend to not understand the concept of clipless
pedals and they get impatient with a bicyclist that is struggling to get
into their pedals...and that light is showing green.

Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:15:29 -0500, <[email hidden]>,

Brian Walker said:

Oh, and don't get into traffic before you get a technique down for clipping
in and gain some patience for the time it takes to get going. Motorists (at
least the one's around me) tend to not understand the concept of clipless
pedals and they get impatient with a bicyclist that is struggling to get
into their pedals...and that light is showing green.

What's wrong with clearing the intersection before screwing around
trying to clip in? If the pedal is worth its weight, you can push it
around while un-clipped and play with it on the other side of the
street.

With the EggBeaters it's possible to clip in forward, backward or
sideways. That's particularly handy on the fixey.

My problem is too often clipping-in unintentionally, after having
un-clipped, while approaching an uphill stop.
--
zk

Quoted message said:

I gave on on the SPD thing for NYC commuting. I fell a few times just
because I forgot that I was clipped in. But it doesn't really make
much sense to be clipped in with traffic all around. There is plenty
of other stuff to watch out for without also having to unclip to
prevent falling under a bus. And there is just about no gain.

In London I find the biggest gain is not having your feet bouncing off the
pedals when you hit a pothole while trying to avoid the buses

Zoot Katz <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:15:29 -0500,
:> <[email hidden]>, "Brian Walker"
:> <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>
:>>Oh, and don't get into traffic before you get a technique down for
:>>clipping in and gain some patience for the time it takes to get
:>>going. Motorists (at least the one's around me) tend to not
:>>understand the concept of clipless pedals and they get impatient
:>>with a bicyclist that is struggling to get into their pedals...and
:>>that light is showing green.
:>
:> What's wrong with clearing the intersection before screwing around
:> trying to clip in?

I just clip in while moving through the intersection, even though I can
pedal quite a distance without clipping in.

IMO, people should practice enough until clipping in is second nature before
getting out on the road.

If the pedal is worth its weight, you can push it
:> around while un-clipped and play with it on the other side of the
:> street.
:>
:> With the EggBeaters it's possible to clip in forward, backward or
:> sideways. That's particularly handy on the fixey.
:>
:> My problem is too often clipping-in unintentionally, after having
:> un-clipped, while approaching an uphill stop.
:> --
:> zk

"Zoot Katz" wrote: (clip) If the pedal is worth its weight, you can push it
around while un-clipped and play with it on the other side of the street.
With the EggBeaters it's possible to clip in forward, backward or sideways.
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
When I start pedalling with my Eggbeaters, the grip from the unclipped shoe
to the pedal is so good that I often have to pull to find out whether I am
clipped in yet.

dgk said:

I gave on on the SPD thing for NYC commuting. I fell a few times just
because I forgot that I was clipped in. But it doesn't really make
much sense to be clipped in with traffic all around. There is plenty
of other stuff to watch out for without also having to unclip to
prevent falling under a bus. And there is just about no gain.

I commute in NYC and recently switched to clipless, after decades of
toeclips/straps. I use the kind that have a clamp on one side and and
a platform on the other. This gives me the option to not clip in when
according to traffic and footwear. I fell once because I forgot I was
clipped in as I came to a stop to chat with a friend. Haven't fallen
since.

John