riding track bike

Why brakes if you live in the flats? I have a front brake on mine (it
doesn't get used) only because there are some monster hills around here.
I'd rather wuss out than crash out descending but in traffic and on
the flats there is zero need for a brake on a fixie.

Fixed is the best, especially when your bike is steel.

Jon

Ken said:

Hello there,

This area is all flat; there are no hills. Riding a minimalist
track bike (fitted with brakes) is a temptation. What are the
pros and cons? It seems to me it is cheaper, less things to
go wrong.

TIA.

Ken

Jon said:

Why brakes if you live in the flats? I have a front brake on mine (it
doesn't get used) only because there are some monster hills around here.
I'd rather wuss out than crash out descending but in traffic and on
the flats there is zero need for a brake on a fixie.

This is bad advice. Track bikes are great -- gee -- on the track. You
can slow down a bit very quickly, more so than with a brake. But on the
track you are not faced with pedestrians, cars, people darting out of
driveways, etc. For all these things a brake is safer.

The front brake does all the work in a rapid stop. Why do road bikes have
two? They have two so that you have a backup (the rear) in case the
front brake breaks. With a fixed gear you can use your legs --- as a
backup, so the rear brake is not so needed. I have two on my fixed gear,
though, since I find it more comfortable with two hoods to hang onto --
and maybe in this I'm a belt-and-suspenders sort of person.

Quoted message said:

Fixed is the best, especially when your bike is steel.

What the tubes are made of doesn't matter here.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and
_`\(,_ | Excellence.
(_)/ (_) |

Hold on a second!

It depends on your gearing and your weight. I'd say that one should
not encourage others to remove their brakes just because it works well
for you. My bike is geared pretty high (around 80"😉 and I weigh 230
pounds. Even with clipless I simply cannot stop my bike in less than
30' (without going into a very dangerous skid move) if I'm going my
cruising speed of 20-25mph. With my brake I can stop much better. To
feel safe without brakes I'd have to keep my speeds too low. If I
weighed 100lbs and had my bike geared at 54" I might skip the brakes.

Maybe you don't like in New York City, though, where hazards abound.
If I lived in the country I might feel differently.

"Jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why brakes if you live in the flats? I have a front brake on mine (it
doesn't get used) only because there are some monster hills around here.
I'd rather wuss out than crash out descending but in traffic and on
the flats there is zero need for a brake on a fixie.

"Leg braking" is only rear wheel braking, and not even very good at that
(modulation is tough). Rear wheel braking is much less effective given
weight transfer. Even with a good front brake, braking on a fixer is a
little worse at the limit since it's harder to move your weight down & back
while your feet are still rotating. It's not the grades that determine
braking requirements, it's the hazards.

[email hidden] (Ken) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hello there,

This area is all flat; there are no hills. Riding a minimalist
track bike (fitted with brakes) is a temptation. What are the
pros and cons? It seems to me it is cheaper, less things to
go wrong.

I ride a single speed mountain bike only and I live where there
are lots of hills (central Pa.) Pros and cons will vary with each
person but for me the the pros are simplicity and the silence
of that smooth operating drivetrain. Cons are the hills of course
but I got my first SS back in 1999 so I'm used to the climbs.
I use it for both road and trail riding. Have ridden as far as
35 miles with it on a mixture of on and off road. Tried the
full suspension thing for 2 years but went back to SSing.
A relative of mine has a number of track bikes, some with brakes,
some without. One with a left-hand drive. He lives in this same area.
His website: <http://www.fixedgearhooligans.com/>

Thank all for the info.

There are not many models available. The Bianchi Pista, Fuji Track, and
Specialized Langster. Besides the obvious (single gear, often no brakes),
how are track bikes different from regular road bikes? I read in someone's
review of the Fuji complaining that it is more suited for road use.

I do intend to ride the bike around (not on tracks) and will have to deal
with traffic. An added front brake and possibly a rear one will be necessary.

Ken

Jon <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Why brakes if you live in the flats? I have a front brake on mine (it
doesn't get used) only because there are some monster hills around here.
I'd rather wuss out than crash out descending but in traffic and on
the flats there is zero need for a brake on a fixie.

Fixed is the best, especially when your bike is steel.

Jon

Ken said:

Hello there,

This area is all flat; there are no hills. Riding a minimalist
track bike (fitted with brakes) is a temptation. What are the
pros and cons? It seems to me it is cheaper, less things to
go wrong.

TIA.

Ken

Ken said:

Thank all for the info.

There are not many models available.

There are *tons* available!

All you need is a frame, a crankset, wheels, chain, saddle, stem, post,
and bars, plus or minus a few things like tires...build your own, it'll
take no time at all, the hardest part's finding a nifty frame.

Pretty much any frame can be made into a single, check Ebay or your local
thrift shop, often you can find a nice old bike, with [censored]
components--remove them and singulate it.

Track bikes and derailleur bikes have a different dropout spacing, so be
aware of that. There are plenty of ways to create a single with a cassette
hub or you can set a derailleur frame to accept the narrower track wheels.

I do recommend getting a flip flop hub for your first endeavor. With
these you can put a freewheel bmx sprocket on one side and a fixed gear on
the other, I'd recommend making the bmx sprocket a wee bit bigger so you
can flip to it on a windy or hilly day. 😄

When looking for bikes to convert that already have derailleurs which will
be removed, checkout the dropouts--the slots where the rear axel goes.
You'll want horizontal or somewhat horizontal, but not vertical, so that
you can adjust the rear wheel and chain tension. You can make a single out
of a bike with vertical dropouts if you use a tensioner such as Surly's
Singulator, or recycle an old derailleur for the job. Be aware that if you
do this, you can go single, but not fixed as a tensioner will not be able
to handle the pressure.

I'm definitely of the found object type frame with a reasonable set of
single wheels kinda guy--You can collect old funky frames for very cheap,
clean them up, add a fresh single speed chain, and mount the decent wheels
you bought to whatever style seems attractive for the day. :P

Just rode my Langster fixed gear on the New York City Century ride (111
miles in 6ish hours.) I have to say that I seemed to do as well or
better than the riders with variable gearing that were at my level of
exp and fitness. On a long ride it is nice to have a clean, light,
quiet bike that you don't have to worry about changing the gears on.
Just your legs and the road.

I say front a rear brakes are fine, and I use mine all the time even if
is not 'cool.' That way you can flip flop with a freewheel, too.
Safety is paramount, right?

Ken,

Read Sheldon Brown's fixed gear pages (
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html ), and consider joining the fixed
gear list at http://lists.davintech.ca/mailman/listinfo/fixed-gear

Riding a fixed gear is different. For one thing, it's very relaxing once
you find the right cadence and your legs learn to go in circles all the
time.
--

alan............42x20 commuter

Anyone who believes in a liberal media has never read the "Daily Oklahoman."

"Ken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello there,

This area is all flat; there are no hills. Riding a minimalist
track bike (fitted with brakes) is a temptation. What are the
pros and cons?

I'm not talking about a track bike, I'm talking about a fixed gear. You
know, the ones that everyone rode until the invention of the derailleur.
If you ride with your head up you won't need to make a rapid stop. If
you can't stop your fixie then your legs are weak, keep riding and
they'll get stronger.

Do you know why most crashes in road races occur? Because some idiot
hauls on his brake (I'm speaking from plenty of experience). With a fix
(especially on the track) this is mitigated as no one can bring down the
whole peloton by an unnecessary rapid stop. Looking and planning
farther ahead is one of the major benefits to fix riding.

Tube material matters for ride quality. With a fixed gear, steel tubed
bike you will have an awesome ride and that is what it's all about, the
ride.

Jon

David L. Johnson said:

Jon said:

Why brakes if you live in the flats? I have a front brake on mine (it
doesn't get used) only because there are some monster hills around here.
I'd rather wuss out than crash out descending but in traffic and on
the flats there is zero need for a brake on a fixie.

This is bad advice. Track bikes are great -- gee -- on the track. You
can slow down a bit very quickly, more so than with a brake. But on the
track you are not faced with pedestrians, cars, people darting out of
driveways, etc. For all these things a brake is safer.

The front brake does all the work in a rapid stop. Why do road bikes have
two? They have two so that you have a backup (the rear) in case the
front brake breaks. With a fixed gear you can use your legs --- as a
backup, so the rear brake is not so needed. I have two on my fixed gear,
though, since I find it more comfortable with two hoods to hang onto --
and maybe in this I'm a belt-and-suspenders sort of person.

Quoted message said:

Fixed is the best, especially when your bike is steel.

What the tubes are made of doesn't matter here.

Thank you for the explanation.

I read Sheldon' excellent articles. I still have a few questions.

How is this flip-flop hub used? Remove the wheel and fit it reversely?
What is the difference between a freewheel and a fixed gear? The former
allows coasting and the latter not? I am not sure I will get used to
the latter, and Sheldon mentions a few (potential) dangers associated
with a fixed gear.

I rode simple bikes with no gear changing before. They came with
freewheels. Are they single-speed or fixed-gear? I am confused.

Ken

maxo <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ken said:

Thank all for the info.

There are not many models available.

There are *tons* available!

All you need is a frame, a crankset, wheels, chain, saddle, stem, post,
and bars, plus or minus a few things like tires...build your own, it'll
take no time at all, the hardest part's finding a nifty frame.

Pretty much any frame can be made into a single, check Ebay or your local
thrift shop, often you can find a nice old bike, with [censored]
components--remove them and singulate it.

Track bikes and derailleur bikes have a different dropout spacing, so be
aware of that. There are plenty of ways to create a single with a cassette
hub or you can set a derailleur frame to accept the narrower track wheels.

I do recommend getting a flip flop hub for your first endeavor. With
these you can put a freewheel bmx sprocket on one side and a fixed gear on
the other, I'd recommend making the bmx sprocket a wee bit bigger so you
can flip to it on a windy or hilly day. 😄

When looking for bikes to convert that already have derailleurs which will
be removed, checkout the dropouts--the slots where the rear axel goes.
You'll want horizontal or somewhat horizontal, but not vertical, so that
you can adjust the rear wheel and chain tension. You can make a single out
of a bike with vertical dropouts if you use a tensioner such as Surly's
Singulator, or recycle an old derailleur for the job. Be aware that if you
do this, you can go single, but not fixed as a tensioner will not be able
to handle the pressure.

I'm definitely of the found object type frame with a reasonable set of
single wheels kinda guy--You can collect old funky frames for very cheap,
clean them up, add a fresh single speed chain, and mount the decent wheels
you bought to whatever style seems attractive for the day. :P

21 Sep 2004 16:20:35 -0700,
<[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

(Ken) said:

I rode simple bikes with no gear changing before. They came with
freewheels. Are they single-speed or fixed-gear? I am confused.

Single speed. Freewheels permit coasting.

Fixed gear implies that pedalling backwards drives the wheel
backwards. As long as the wheel is turning, so is the crank.
--
zk

Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:59:57 -0600, <[email hidden]>,

Jon said:

I'm not talking about a track bike, I'm talking about a fixed gear. You
know, the ones that everyone rode until the invention of the derailleur.

William Van Anden obtained the first freewheel patent in 1869.
E.H. Hodgkinson patented a 3-speed Gradient gear, a pre-cursor of the
modern derailleur in 1896.
--
zk

Quoted message said:

Besides the obvious (single gear, often no brakes),
how are track bikes different from regular road bikes? I read in someone's
review of the Fuji complaining that it is more suited for road use.

A bike designed for track use will usually have quicker steering and a
tighter rear triangle, resulting in a more maneuverable but less comfortable
bike than a typical road bike.

My fixed gear is rather unusual in that it is British frame designed for
road time trialing, and therefore has unusually long chainstays (Time trials
on roads using fixed gear bikes is apparently relatively popular in
Britain).

The fellow I bought it from, a local with a ton of track experience,
remarked that it had the longest stays he had ever seen on a fixie.

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

Ken said:

Thank you for the explanation.

I read Sheldon' excellent articles. I still have a few questions.

How is this flip-flop hub used? Remove the wheel and fit it reversely?

Yes

Quoted message said:

What is the difference between a freewheel and a fixed gear?

A fixed gear is rigidly connected to the wheel. A freewheel, well,
freewheels.

The former

Quoted message said:

allows coasting and the latter not? I am not sure I will get used to
the latter, and Sheldon mentions a few (potential) dangers associated
with a fixed gear.

It takes one ride to get used to it.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You
_`\(,_ | soon find out the pig likes it!
(_)/ (_) |

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:59:57 -0600, Jon <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

With a fix
(especially on the track) this is mitigated as no one can bring down the
whole peloton by an unnecessary rapid stop.

Don't understand the above. You can't race a fixed gear on the road in
a mass start, so the 'especially' means little. A person can haul a
fixed gear, brakeless bike down to a stop pretty damn quick, track or
road, especially if they can lift the wheel when applying back
pressure. A peloton full of fixed gear bikes is hardly an guarantee of
an accident free bike race.

And I don't think there is much difference between an inexperienced
rider riding the brake hoods and an inexperienced rider backing off
the pedals on a fixed, except the latter can be pretty dramatic in
worst cases.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Jon said:

Do you know why most crashes in road races occur? Because some idiot
hauls on his brake (I'm speaking from plenty of experience).

Actually, my experience (long time ago, but nevertheless we had brakes
then) was different. Biggest cause of crashes was someone crossing wheels
with the person ahead of him. Second biggest was someone sliding out
in a corner.

Quoted message said:

With a fix
(especially on the track) this is mitigated as no one can bring down the
whole peloton by an unnecessary rapid stop.

Sure they can. You just went on about how easy it is, if you are big and
strong enough, to stop with a fixed gear.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

You can skid the rear wheel on a fixed gear just like a coaster brake.

And I agree that most spills are caused by wipe outs or hitting another's
wheel.

Of course, elbows and hooks take their toll.

When road racers first started using shifters and brakes, I couldn't believe
it. No one of my era wanted the weight.(50s)

RRon
[email hidden]

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jon said:

Why brakes if you live in the flats? I have a front brake on mine (it
doesn't get used) only because there are some monster hills around here.
I'd rather wuss out than crash out descending but in traffic and on
the flats there is zero need for a brake on a fixie.

This is bad advice. Track bikes are great -- gee -- on the track. You
can slow down a bit very quickly, more so than with a brake.

Hundreds of bike messengers do very well in heavy traffic on fixies. No
brakes for them. That's not for me, but it works.