Riding speed

rc5 said:

"C" is a constant related to the rider's size, air density, and riding
position etc.

Badger_South <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(rc5) said:

I bike to work every day on a 12KM route. There are 2 hills, 10 red
lights, etc.
When I started doing this, it took me 28 mins one way. Now, it's down
to 24 mins on my MTB or 21 min on my road bike. So that's around 30-34
kph, counting all the stops.

On my weekend rides, I am usually able to maintain 40kph for half an
hour or so, or 35kph for 1.5 hours, non-stop

It's said that the pedaling power output roughtly = C*speed^2.6, for
speed over 30kph. So you need 60% extra power to gain 20% more speed,
for same bike, same riding position and road condition.

That is rough, but the factor is a minimum of 2.6 (squared = 2.0).
Works for cars, too.
If you double you speed the most obvious thing is that you are pushing
aside twice as much air at twice the velocity, with twice the drag,
hence the squared.
Deterioration of air flow at higher speeds, tire drag, drivetrain, etc...
add up the rest of the factor, and it may vary according to different
setups.
Try riding at 10 MPH. No problem, a wimp can do it all day.
Now try holding 20 MPH. UGGGH, it just got harder.
Now think. Is 20 MPH at least twice the effort? Uh-huh, at least,
and then some.
Bill Baka

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Although this is a thread from last month, I think it speaks well to
questions such as "why the concern for speed...just ride the bike?"

BTW, in the equation above, what is "C" (cadence?).

What's interesting to me is how -fast- 20mph (33kph) feels. The bike is
virtually skipping over the pavement when I put the power to the pedals
at
this speed. Haha, I'm not sure I want to go 40kph (~25mph). Of course, I
lie.

What I'm trying to bring up to par in my riding is 'sustained' speed,
but
for me, that's more like for 10 min at a time - here I can do 18-19mph
(31kph).

What's odd/interesting is that I'm not sure if what causes me to slow
back
down to cruising is lack of power or lack of concentration, b/c I still
seem to have more ability in the legs and lungs but something inside
says
'ok, I can't keep this up any longer'. Seriously, I think if I had more
motivation, I could. Maybe it's a 'core strength' issue, b/c the
feeling is
deep in the stomach if I had to isolate a source. ;-).

-B

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Badger_South said:

What's interesting to me is how -fast- 20mph (33kph) feels. The bike is
virtually skipping over the pavement when I put the power to the pedals at
this speed.

Either your pedalling is very jerky or you're pulling on the handlebars,
ISTM. Pedalling (while seated) shouldn't make the bike feel unstable,
even if you're pushing hard.

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"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

What I'm trying to bring up to par in my riding is 'sustained' speed, but
for me, that's more like for 10 min at a time - here I can do 18-19mph
(31kph).

What's odd/interesting is that I'm not sure if what causes me to slow back
down to cruising is lack of power or lack of concentration, b/c I still
seem to have more ability in the legs and lungs but something inside says
'ok, I can't keep this up any longer'. Seriously, I think if I had more
motivation, I could. Maybe it's a 'core strength' issue, b/c the feeling is
deep in the stomach if I had to isolate a source. ;-).

It's cardio-vascular capability, that's the limiting factor once you have a
basic level of fitness.

Peter Cole said:

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

What I'm trying to bring up to par in my riding is 'sustained' speed,
but
for me, that's more like for 10 min at a time - here I can do 18-19mph
(31kph).

What's odd/interesting is that I'm not sure if what causes me to slow
back
down to cruising is lack of power or lack of concentration, b/c I still
seem to have more ability in the legs and lungs but something inside
says
'ok, I can't keep this up any longer'. Seriously, I think if I had more
motivation, I could. Maybe it's a 'core strength' issue, b/c the
feeling is
deep in the stomach if I had to isolate a source. ;-).

It's cardio-vascular capability, that's the limiting factor once you
have a
basic level of fitness.

Cardio? I can't get to my limit on my bike, neither HRM or breathing,
especially not breathing. My legs give out first, hitting the pain barrior.
I'm sure I could go more if I was feeling particularly masochistic, but
I haven't so far. I am at 5'7" and 143 pounds so no extra fat to drag
around, even though others have posted that weight doesn't make that much
of a big deal on the flats. I don't think that being 55 years old is
that much of a barrier, it just gets down to
"Am I being paid to beat myself like this?".
My HRM limit is 180 or better and the only way I can hit it is running
short sprints one after another. I only get 172-174 after standing up
to attack a hill, or 164-168 in fast cruise mode. Nobody to race except
maybe some guy with no drivers license who would most likely be PUI.
Pedaling Under the Influence.
Teenagers may (MAY) be able to give me a run but they would rather be cool
and have their seats way too low.
It depends on your motivation, and most of us are happy to be fit enough
to ride, which is what we enjoy and what this group is about.
Hot shots will please report to .racing.
Bill Baka

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"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

'ok, I can't keep this up any longer'. Seriously, I think if I had more
motivation, I could. Maybe it's a 'core strength' issue, b/c the
feeling is
deep in the stomach if I had to isolate a source. ;-).

It's cardio-vascular capability, that's the limiting factor once you
have a
basic level of fitness.

Cardio? I can't get to my limit on my bike, neither HRM or breathing,
especially not breathing. My legs give out first, hitting the pain barrior.

As I previously posted, there's no big secret here, you just haven't
conditioned your legs enough. Some people never seem to be able to develop the
leg strength necessary to max out their C-V system, but that is pretty rare.

Quoted message said:

It depends on your motivation, and most of us are happy to be fit enough
to ride, which is what we enjoy and what this group is about.
Hot shots will please report to .racing.

I think it's more than a little presumptuous for a newb to define this group.
Everybody (almost) likes to go faster, it's part of the joy of cycling. Going
fast and far doesn't have to be competitive.

Peter Cole said:

"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote
> 'ok, I can't keep this up any longer'. Seriously, I think if I had

more

Quoted message said:

> motivation, I could. Maybe it's a 'core strength' issue, b/c the
> feeling is
> deep in the stomach if I had to isolate a source. ;-).

It's cardio-vascular capability, that's the limiting factor once you
have a
basic level of fitness.

Cardio? I can't get to my limit on my bike, neither HRM or breathing,
especially not breathing. My legs give out first, hitting the pain
barrior.

As I previously posted, there's no big secret here, you just haven't
conditioned your legs enough. Some people never seem to be able to
develop the
leg strength necessary to max out their C-V system, but that is pretty
rare.

Quoted message said:

It depends on your motivation, and most of us are happy to be fit enough
to ride, which is what we enjoy and what this group is about.
Hot shots will please report to .racing.

I think it's more than a little presumptuous for a newb to define this
group.
Everybody (almost) likes to go faster, it's part of the joy of cycling.
Going
fast and far doesn't have to be competitive.

I am neither a newb nor a beginning cyclist. I have been riding forever
compared to anyone on this group under 55, semi-seriously for the last 5
years, and more seriously in the last year. The whole point of riding
is enjoyment which means fitness (obviously), challenging ones self, and
did I mention that being outdoors makes for a lot of stops to check out the
nature. If all you guys ride for is to blast past everything on the side of
the road you have missed the point. I stop a lot for all the right reasons,
Raspberries, garage sales, great views (photo time with my pocket digital
camera),
some interesting 'junk' on the side of the road, talk to people, etc.
I have one ride that requires 12 miles flat pavement, 10 miles hilly
pavement,
12 miles hilly gravel, 2 miles rideable trail, 2 miles of lug the bike
unrideable trail, and one half mile of leave the bike and climb rocks, just
to get to a really isolated 'private' waterfall. Reverse this to get back
home again. The waterfall is the destination, the bike is the means to
get to it. Zero people within at least a mile, relaxation, meditation,
whatever, no competition. I compete with myself, but only when I feel
the need. None of the locals can beat me, teenagers included, and my CV
fitness is way more than enough, so why would I need to make every ride
a training session? I read the group and sometimes over post, but mostly
just read and sometimes laugh.
Bill Baka

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"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am neither a newb nor a beginning cyclist. I have been riding forever
compared to anyone on this group under 55, semi-seriously for the last 5
years, and more seriously in the last year.

There are people participating in this group who have ridden hundreds of
thousands of miles more than you. There are people who ride everywhere and
drive only under duress. There are people older than you who ride more than
you and have been riding more than you their whole lives.

Quoted message said:

The whole point of riding
is enjoyment which means fitness (obviously), challenging ones self, and
did I mention that being outdoors makes for a lot of stops to check out

the

Quoted message said:

nature.

You don't get to define "the whole point of riding," except for yourself.
The fact that you continue to think you can is what makes you sound like
such an arrogant snob. For some people the whole point of riding is to not
be driving. For some it's to get to work every day. For some it's to make a
living as a messenger or a racer. For some it's a matter of politics, or
conscience, or health, or aesthetic enjoyment.

For most, I think, it's a combination of all those things and more. But
until you learn to stop being so judgemental about other people's
motivations, you still sound like an arrogant snob. If you don't mean to
sound that way, you should edit your postings for tone.

RichC

Rich Clark said:

"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The whole point of riding
is enjoyment which means fitness (obviously), challenging ones self, and
did I mention that being outdoors makes for a lot of stops to check out

the

Quoted message said:

nature.

You don't get to define "the whole point of riding," except for yourself.
The fact that you continue to think you can is what makes you sound like
such an arrogant snob. For some people the whole point of riding is to
not
be driving. For some it's to get to work every day. For some it's to
make a
living as a messenger or a racer. For some it's a matter of politics, or
conscience, or health, or aesthetic enjoyment.

For most, I think, it's a combination of all those things and more. But
until you learn to stop being so judgemental about other people's
motivations, you still sound like an arrogant snob. If you don't mean to
sound that way, you should edit your postings for tone.

RichC

Should I have said "The point of optional riding??".
A lot of people I see riding are doing it because they have no choice.
No car, no gas money, no license, going to school, messenger, etc.
The ones who I do see riding for fun usually aren't racing.
When I take the kids, mine and half the neighborhood, it is about
being outside and goofing around while using bikes.
The occasional couple I do see riding are just out for some
romantic riding, not racing.
The last hard core group I knew was at work, 3 engineers who
would ride together and try to wipe each other out, both on the
bikes and at work.
Arrogant snob is not exactly a fit for me, but hey, it's your call.
Bill Baka

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"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Should I have said "The point of optional riding??".
A lot of people I see riding are doing it because they have no choice.
No car, no gas money, no license, going to school, messenger, etc.
The ones who I do see riding for fun usually aren't racing.
When I take the kids, mine and half the neighborhood, it is about
being outside and goofing around while using bikes.
The occasional couple I do see riding are just out for some
romantic riding, not racing.
The last hard core group I knew was at work, 3 engineers who
would ride together and try to wipe each other out, both on the
bikes and at work.
Arrogant snob is not exactly a fit for me, but hey, it's your call.
Bill Baka

You just need to acknowledge that it's a big, wide, wonderful world out
there, and you're just seeing a little bitty slice of it. I don't doubt your
veracity, but you seem to insist on generalizing from a very tiny set of
specifics.

Where I live -- Philadelphia, a big city full of universities, museums,
research centers, and horrible traffic -- there are thousands of people
whose bikes are vital to their daily lives, because it's the best way to get
around. That cycling is also fun and healthy is important, as is its low
impact on the environment.

Where I work, a natural science museum, dozens of people commute by bike
every day. We're all gainfully employed, and we all have the usual range of
choices available.

Like many such people, I take as much interest in my bikes as drivers often
do in their cars. I spend money on them, I own more than one, I work on them
as a hobby, and I ride them for pleasure as well as for functionality.

My point is that when you come into a newsgroup like this one, you're
statistically *much* more likely to encounter someone like me than someone
like you, because there are a lot of us. So when you make pronouncements in
absolute terms -- "The point of cycling is..." -- be prepared to discover
that your perspective is not shared by many.

RichC

Rich Clark said:

You just need to acknowledge that it's a big, wide, wonderful world out
there, and you're just seeing a little bitty slice of it. I don't doubt
your
veracity, but you seem to insist on generalizing from a very tiny set of
specifics.

Where I live -- Philadelphia, a big city full of universities, museums,
research centers, and horrible traffic -- there are thousands of people
whose bikes are vital to their daily lives, because it's the best way to
get
around. That cycling is also fun and healthy is important, as is its low
impact on the environment.

Where I work, a natural science museum, dozens of people commute by bike
every day. We're all gainfully employed, and we all have the usual range
of
choices available.

Like many such people, I take as much interest in my bikes as drivers
often
do in their cars. I spend money on them, I own more than one, I work on
them
as a hobby, and I ride them for pleasure as well as for functionality.

My point is that when you come into a newsgroup like this one, you're
statistically *much* more likely to encounter someone like me than
someone
like you, because there are a lot of us. So when you make pronouncements
in
absolute terms -- "The point of cycling is..." -- be prepared to discover
that your perspective is not shared by many.

RichC

OK, you have me. I live in California where cars rule and bikes are for
kids.
The cities I have the most experience with are S.F., San Jose, and Los
Angeles and those are major car cities. Riding a bike in those areas is
like
having a death wish. Maybe the Eastern part of the US is more mellowed.
Bill Baka

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"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Riding a bike in those areas is
like having a death wish.

*Everybody* says that about their local area. SoCal, Wash DC, Florida,
Houston, rural Pennsylvania...all these have been promoted in here by the
respective locals as being 'far worse than anywhere else'

In truth...there are very, very few if any actively bike-hostile cities.
Deviate from your normal driving route a block or two, and you'll be amazed
at the easy bike riding.

Pete

Pete said:

"Bill Baka" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Riding a bike in those areas is
like having a death wish.

*Everybody* says that about their local area. SoCal, Wash DC, Florida,
Houston, rural Pennsylvania...all these have been promoted in here by the
respective locals as being 'far worse than anywhere else'

In truth...there are very, very few if any actively bike-hostile cities.
Deviate from your normal driving route a block or two, and you'll be amazed
at the easy bike riding.

aaaannnd...this is the key.

Cycling does a great deal for your sense of direction, especially in
an urban setting.

-Luigi

Quoted message said:

Pete

Luigi de Guzman said:

Cycling does a great deal for your sense of direction, especially in
an urban setting.

man, speak for yourself. i get lost riding to work.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Baka said:

Should I have said "The point of optional riding??".

Astrologers would have it that retrograde Mercury periods
(such as we're in right now) screws up communications, as
well as transportation, and mechanical workings.

Maybe you don't hold no truck in such flakery, and that's
perfectly acceptable and understandable.

But it's nice to have something external to blame things on,
when things go awry ;-)

Anyhow, the astrological watchword for the period up to
Sept 2nd is: measure twice; cut once. That goes for sayin'
stuff, too.

In the meantime, when newsservers go wonky, locknuts get
busted, Fabrizio gets missed, intended ideas get misconstrued,
your shoelace breaks while tying it, chainrings develop strange
wear patterns, people run away from you when you try to nicely
talk to them, you get fired from your job because of something
somebody else did, inopportune flats, you buy a bunch of reeds
for your saxophone and they're all duds, your glasses fall off
your face and you either (a) accidentally step on 'em or (b)
the ear-hangers break off one after the other ...

.... blame retrograde Mercury. It's as good a punching-pillow
as any.

And especially watch out for busted axles.

cheers,
Tom

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"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

*Everybody* says that about their local area. SoCal, Wash DC, Florida,
Houston, rural Pennsylvania...all these have been promoted in here by the
respective locals as being 'far worse than anywhere else'

In truth...there are very, very few if any actively bike-hostile cities.

In part, that's because "city" is too broad. In every large city, there is
going to be a lot of variation in the types of cycling experiences
available.

To oversimplify, dense urban areas are good for commute/shopper cycling
becaus distances are small, neighborhood stores in walking/cycling distance
are common traffic speed is moderate, a "grid" system means there are
low-traffic routes, etc. However, it's hard to do triathalon training rides
in this type of situation.

The newer suburbs of these cities have large distances, the stores are
distant "big boxes" on major arteries, traffic is either snarled or going as
fast as possible, and the "cul-de-sac" design means there are few low
traffic routes. However, there may be a long "rail to trail" that can be
used for fast training rides and there may still be some nearby "country
roads" that haven't been sprawled over yet.

Quoted message said:

Deviate from your normal driving route a block or two, and you'll be

amazed

Quoted message said:

at the easy bike riding.

Your point is well taken. Now that I've been putting on more bike than car
miles for a few years, I know routes that others who've lives in this town
all their lives have no idea of.