Riding on footpaths

In general, it aint good.
for cyclists, peds and others

Of course the alternatives are what force most to ride on the footpath in the first place!

The kids only legislation was (I'm assuming) a try-and-please-everyone solution by Vic Govt. Peds (fairly enuff) wanted bikes off footpaths.

Of course no pollie/person would support forcing kids (with little road knowledge, spacial awareness in younger years, etc) into riding on the road.

Dangerous for the kids, dangerous to other road users too. AND thy dont know the road laws (That's an entir eseparate thread I'm workin on with others coming soon...).
Of course they had to allow guardians to ride with em on footpath too.
As long as they are over 18! NO riding on footpath with younger sibling for you. Get in mummy's taxi!!

There are 2 components to this:

Allowing kids to ride in a safe environment. (until such time as they are able and capable enought to ride anywhere)
and
Cyclists on roads being given respect, rights and allowed to get from A-to-B in safe, lowcost, non-polluting, blah, blah, blah, way

My 2cents on riding on footpaths for adults is that it’s OK for very short distances of extremely low speeds (similar speed to a 4yr old on a tricycle) . We are talking suburbian streets here.

Beyond this you’ll be either get bowled over , or bowl over peds etc. On the footpath your’e approaching driveways & some street intersections almost blind. A lot of driveways do not offer the driver to opportunity to check the footpath for oncoming ‘traffic’ due to the angle.

Marx SS said:

My 2cents on riding on footpaths for adults is that it’s OK for very short distances of extremely low speeds (similar speed to a 4yr old on a tricycle) . We are talking suburbian streets here.

Beyond this you’ll be either get bowled over , or bowl over peds etc. On the footpath your’e approaching driveways & some street intersections almost blind. A lot of driveways do not offer the driver to opportunity to check the footpath for oncoming ‘traffic’ due to the angle.

Was thinking the other day that perhaps there should be some design standards for fences/entryways.
IE if the street frontage of a property has to involve a driveway apply the same lines-of-sight you do a tintersections, roundabouts etc and not have solid or high structures that block the ability of a driver to see what they are potentially hitting!

Of course, drivers could be less lazy and reverse in, thus leaving forwards and not hitting as many kids/peds
🙄

Tom N said:

What are people's views on riding on footpaths (I'm talking about ordinary
suburban back streets)?

I am not in favor.

Quoted post said:

I often ride on footpaths to avoid going round parked cars when there is
traffic about.

A cyclist is traffic, do you think it's reasonable for traffic to use the foot path?

Quoted post said:

I've nearly been skittled a few times going round a parked car when there
was another opposite and some speeding 4wd tries to get three cars abreast
plus a cyclist on a narrow suburban road.

Sounds to me like your road skills are lacking. If a vehicle thinks that it can get past you then you're not riding wide enough.

How do you approach parked cars? Do you wait till the last meter then go around? Or do you do what your supposed to do, move out early with plenty of warning and signals to other road users? I do the latter and NEVER have problems.

Quoted post said:

Yep there's some danger of being hit by a car reversing from a driveway and
also some danger when crossing side streets, but surely kids are much less
cognisant of these dangers than adults so why is it ok for kids only?

Also these dangers are significantly less than being hit up the [censored] or
head-on at 50 kph.

Really? You have evidence of this or is this a conclusion you reached in your own mind? Cyclists fare best when they operate and behave as regular vehicles on the road. I suggest you do a bit of research on vehicular cycling.

Tom N said:

What are people's views on riding on footpaths (I'm talking about ordinary
suburban back streets)?

In some states (e.g. ACT I believe), it's legal. In Vic, it's ok for kids
and adults supervising kids. Also seems to be ok for old people on their
electric buggies.

I often ride on footpaths to avoid going round parked cars when there is
traffic about.

all depends really, I try and use the road most of the time, cars parked
near shops are the ones to keep an eye on, I try and see if anyone is in
the car and go wide just in case the twit pops the door open without
looking as they are suppose to, I have already bent one door by slaming
into it 🙂

fortunately for me there are more shared paths appearing in the area so
I tend to use those and not too many peds use them at the moment 🙂

there are a couple of spots I refuse to use the road and take the
footpath, one is a short hill with a curve to the left where some moron
motorist decide the traffic is too slow for them and shoot up on the
curbside lane, bit of a blind spot near the top so these idiots would be
on top of you before they realise it.

the other is when I go to the local shops, I use the road on the way
down no probs, coming back I use the footpath for 2 blocks, otherwise I
have to cross 6 lanes of heavy traffic just to get back to my street, I
know its not legal but I slow down and give way to any peds on the path.

Tom N said:

What are people's views on riding on footpaths (I'm talking about ordinary
suburban back streets)?

Generally I don't. Various reasons like reverseing cars, roughness,
slower, etc, etc. Places where I do include

1. 100 metres on Blaxland Road where there is only two lanes either way
and I'm usually passing at peak hour or late at night, which is through
a sea of neons signs. This is a nice very wide foot path (20'+?) with a
concrete strip. It also allows me to make a right hand turn to say
another 100 metres of main road.

2. Chamberlain St to Warby Street going to town.

3. Shared bicycle- pedestrian pathway for 500m metres out along Georges
River Road. It is a narrow concrete path in 50' of grass with a yellow
line up the middle. The few pedestrians can be easily ridden around. It
is just so much more pleasant that riding beside the traffic on a broken
edge with bogans who try to over take on the left at the drop of a hat.

4. In the past, occassional job delivering junk mail or community
brochures on certain streets. Usually it is just easier to walk.

It isn't an issue in my books so long as peeps take it easy and use a
speed appropriate for the situation.

EuanB said:

Tom N said:

What are people's views on riding on footpaths (I'm talking about
ordinary suburban back streets)?

I am not in favor.

Quoted message said:

I've nearly been skittled a few times going round a parked car when
there was another opposite and some speeding 4wd tries to get three
cars abreast plus a cyclist on a narrow suburban road.

Sounds to me like your road skills are lacking. If a vehicle thinks
that it can get past you then you're not riding wide enough.

How do you approach parked cars? Do you wait till the last meter then
go around? Or do you do what your supposed to do, move out early with
plenty of warning and signals to other road users? I do the latter
and NEVER have problems.

That could be it.

I also now recall that I don't like looking back because I am worried
that I'll wobble into the path of the car I can hear behind me.

I previously thought that I'd "solve" that by getting a rear view mirror
(which is surprisingly difficult to find), but having read up as you
suggest (Wikipedia on vehicular cycling), it seems that looking back
performs an additional function of being a signal to following drivers
that you are likely to move laterally in the direction you turned your
head.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yep there's some danger of being hit by a car reversing from a
driveway and also some danger when crossing side streets, but surely
kids are much less cognisant of these dangers than adults so why is
it ok for kids only?

Also these dangers are significantly less than being hit up the [censored]
or head-on at 50 kph.

Really? You have evidence of this or is this a conclusion you reached
in your own mind?

Partly a conclusion of being hit up the [censored] in my car by a guy who
didn't even hit the brakes and who wrote off 3 cars (mine, his and the
car in between). I am a bit nervous about being hit up the [censored] now.

Cops gave him a ticket for travelling too closely (1 point and $70), but
clearly it was worse than that as he didn't even hit the brakes. This
was is Melbourne on a sunny day in summer, little traffic, straight
road, 4 lanes, me stationary waiting to turn right.

Someone I know had a minor bingle up the [censored] of someone at a give way
sign in NSW (both cars were repairable) and got done for negligent
driving IIRC (which apparently is/was automatic for rear-enders in NSW).

Quoted message said:

Cyclists fare best when they operate and behave as regular vehicles on
the road. I suggest you do a bit of research on vehicular cycling.

Thanks for the tip.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Tom" == Tom N <Tom> writes:

Tom> I also now recall that I don't like looking back because I am
Tom> worried that I'll wobble into the path of the car I can hear
Tom> behind me.

The ability to look behind you without deviating is a skill that's
pretty much essential for safe riding. You really should be able to
look in any direction without the course of your bicycle changing.

Take yourself to a quiet car park or similar and play with your bike.
Come to a stop, determine how it leans and get going again. Really
learn how it reacts to shifts of body weight etc. The more comfortable
you are with the control of your bike the better you'll ride.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also these dangers are significantly less than being hit up the
[censored] or head-on at 50 kph.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Really? You have evidence of this or is this a conclusion you
reached in your own mind?

Tom> Partly a conclusion of being hit up the [censored] in my car by a guy
Tom> who didn't even hit the brakes and who wrote off 3 cars (mine,
Tom> his and the car in between). I am a bit nervous about being hit
Tom> up the [censored] now.

OK, so you've had bad experiences in a car and you know someone else
who's had bad experiences in a car. The last time I heard of a cyclist
being hit in the rear by a car it made national news. That's how rare
an occurrence it is.

Cars being hit up the rear don't make the news because it's not news
worthy. That should tell you something.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cyclists fare best when they operate and behave as regular
vehicles on the road. I suggest you do a bit of research on
vehicular cycling.

Tom> Thanks for the tip.

You're welcome :-)
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

Tom N said:

What are people's views on riding on footpaths (I'm talking about ordinary
suburban back streets)?

Ride-on-the-road. Make it safer for us all!

Peds benefit from lessened risk of being clobbered by a cyclist.
Motorists benefit from a more pedictable traffic environment, with them
being forced to take account of slower road users ans _slow down_
themselves.
Cyclists benefit from a greater use of the road by other cyclists, leading
to slower speeds and more 'cyclist-savvy' motorists. Also much lessened risk
of being cleaned up by side trsaffic coming out of driveways and side
streets.

Quoted message said:

In some states (e.g. ACT I believe), it's legal. In Vic, it's ok for kids
and adults supervising kids. Also seems to be ok for old people on their
electric buggies.

Only recently introduced under the new 'National' road rules. For some
reason the ACT and Qld have copped out and allow all to ride on footpaths. A
serious retrograde step IMHO.

Quoted message said:

I often ride on footpaths to avoid going round parked cars when there is
traffic about.

I've nearly been skittled a few times going round a parked car when there
was another opposite and some speeding 4wd tries to get three cars abreast
plus a cyclist on a narrow suburban road.

Ride wider. Plan ahead and claim your road space. The car drivers have to
deal with it, and they _know it_, but if your give them an inch....

Quoted message said:

Yep there's some danger of being hit by a car reversing from a driveway
and
also some danger when crossing side streets, but surely kids are much less
cognisant of these dangers than adults so why is it ok for kids only?

Also these dangers are significantly less than being hit up the [censored] or
head-on at 50 kph.

Acgtually the reverse. The greatest proportion of accidents are from cars
turning across oncoming cyclists.

Cheers
Peter

flyingdutch
<[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Marx SS said:

My -2cents - on riding on footpaths for adults is that
it’s OK for very short distances of extremely low speeds
(similar speed to a 4yr old on a tricycle) . We are
talking suburbian streets here.

Beyond this you’ll be either get bowled over , or bowl
over peds etc. On the footpath your’e approaching
driveways & some street intersections almost blind. A lot
of driveways do not offer the driver to opportunity to
check the footpath for oncoming ‘traffic’ due to the
angle.

Was thinking the other day that perhaps there should be
some design standards for fences/entryways.
IE if the street frontage of a property has to involve a
driveway apply the same lines-of-sight you do a
tintersections, roundabouts etc and not have solid or high
structures that block the ability of a driver to see what
they are potentially hitting!

They do exist just they are rarely enforced. Specifically
most road authorities (and therefore councils) can audit the
safety of any item associated with the road reserve (assumign
the fence is on the boundary). If it's an issue they can
direct it's modification or removal or carry out the work for
you at your cost.

I've seen/done a couple of audits where we've picked up this
issue and directed it be fixed. Huge problem not enough
people/resources.

Quoted message said:

Of course, drivers could be less lazy and reverse in, thus
leaving forwards and not hitting as many kids/peds
🙄

Alternatively reversing alarms (I hate them but...) or have
the peds check properly or teach people to use their mirrors.
Actually having people drive straight onto the road might be
a problem. They typically go a little slower backwards.

Cheers

BrettM

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

<SNIP>

Quoted message said:

Only recently introduced under the new 'National' road
rules. For some reason the ACT and Qld have copped out and
allow all to ride on footpaths. A serious retrograde step
IMHO.

Ummm, how can it be retrograde when it was maintenance of an
existing law?????

Beyond that a signficant number of shared paths are actually
on the footpath. Qld was smart enough to realise that there
need to be some options available for people. Some people
will never feel comfortable on the road. I like being able
to choose depending on traffic.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I often ride on footpaths to avoid going round parked cars
when there is traffic about.

I've nearly been skittled a few times going round a parked
car when there was another opposite and some speeding 4wd
tries to get three cars abreast plus a cyclist on a narrow
suburban road.

Ride wider. Plan ahead and claim your road space. The car
drivers have to deal with it, and they _know it_, but if
your give them an inch....

Good when you can but sometimes it's better to turn the other
cheek and realise that the dude in the Toyo with
bullbar/scrubbars and pigdog cages in the back isn't going to
take any bl**dy notice.

Cheers

BrettM

Peter Signorini said:

Tom N said:

What are people's views on riding on footpaths (I'm talking about ordinary
suburban back streets)?

Ride-on-the-road. Make it safer for us all!

Peds benefit from lessened risk of being clobbered by a cyclist.
Motorists benefit from a more pedictable traffic environment, with them
being forced to take account of slower road users ans _slow down_
themselves.
Cyclists benefit from a greater use of the road by other cyclists, leading
to slower speeds and more 'cyclist-savvy' motorists. Also much lessened risk
of being cleaned up by side trsaffic coming out of driveways and side
streets.

Quoted message said:

In some states (e.g. ACT I believe), it's legal. In Vic, it's ok for kids
and adults supervising kids. Also seems to be ok for old people on their
electric buggies.

Only recently introduced under the new 'National' road rules. For some
reason the ACT and Qld have copped out and allow all to ride on footpaths. A
serious retrograde step IMHO.

Quoted message said:

I often ride on footpaths to avoid going round parked cars when there is
traffic about.

I've nearly been skittled a few times going round a parked car when there
was another opposite and some speeding 4wd tries to get three cars abreast
plus a cyclist on a narrow suburban road.

Ride wider. Plan ahead and claim your road space. The car drivers have to
deal with it, and they _know it_, but if your give them an inch....

Quoted message said:

Yep there's some danger of being hit by a car reversing from a driveway
and
also some danger when crossing side streets, but surely kids are much less
cognisant of these dangers than adults so why is it ok for kids only?

Also these dangers are significantly less than being hit up the [censored] or
head-on at 50 kph.

Acgtually the reverse. The greatest proportion of accidents are from cars
turning across oncoming cyclists.

Cheers
Peter

Greetings,
Right on, Mr Sig. Exercise your right to use the road system provided,
and motorists who want to gain all of two seconds by doing something
totally stupid can learn that other people have rights as well.
Footpaths are dangerous unless you are going dead slow. Apart from peds
and reversing cars, they also frequently have numerous sight
obstructions and badly uneven surfaces. I ride on the roads and that's
where I'm staying.
Regards,
Ray.

quote='Peter Signorini''Tom N said:

In some states (e.g. ACT I believe), it's legal. In Vic, it's ok for kids
and adults supervising kids. Also seems to be ok for old people on their
electric buggies.

Only recently introduced under the new 'National' road rules. For some
reason the ACT and Qld have copped out and allow all to ride on footpaths. A
serious retrograde step IMHO.
[/QUOTE]

Needs to be considered in context. In the ACT, most main roads don't have footpaths. Many local streets likewise. Instead you have the shared path network, which includes bits of footpath. Take away riding on footpaths and the network disappears.
(I prefer riding on the roads.)

Tom N said:

EuanB said:

Tom N said:

What are people's views on riding on footpaths (I'm talking about
ordinary suburban back streets)?

I am not in favor.

Quoted message said:

I've nearly been skittled a few times going round a parked car when
there was another opposite and some speeding 4wd tries to get three
cars abreast plus a cyclist on a narrow suburban road.

Sounds to me like your road skills are lacking. If a vehicle thinks
that it can get past you then you're not riding wide enough.

How do you approach parked cars? Do you wait till the last meter then
go around? Or do you do what your supposed to do, move out early with
plenty of warning and signals to other road users? I do the latter
and NEVER have problems.

That could be it.

I also now recall that I don't like looking back because I am worried
that I'll wobble into the path of the car I can hear behind me.

I previously thought that I'd "solve" that by getting a rear view mirror
(which is surprisingly difficult to find), but having read up as you
suggest (Wikipedia on vehicular cycling), it seems that looking back
performs an additional function of being a signal to following drivers
that you are likely to move laterally in the direction you turned your
head.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yep there's some danger of being hit by a car reversing from a
driveway and also some danger when crossing side streets, but surely
kids are much less cognisant of these dangers than adults so why is
it ok for kids only?

Also these dangers are significantly less than being hit up the [censored]
or head-on at 50 kph.

Really? You have evidence of this or is this a conclusion you reached
in your own mind?

Partly a conclusion of being hit up the [censored] in my car by a guy who
didn't even hit the brakes and who wrote off 3 cars (mine, his and the
car in between). I am a bit nervous about being hit up the [censored] now.

Cops gave him a ticket for travelling too closely (1 point and $70), but
clearly it was worse than that as he didn't even hit the brakes. This
was is Melbourne on a sunny day in summer, little traffic, straight
road, 4 lanes, me stationary waiting to turn right.

Someone I know had a minor bingle up the [censored] of someone at a give way
sign in NSW (both cars were repairable) and got done for negligent
driving IIRC (which apparently is/was automatic for rear-enders in NSW).

Quoted message said:

Cyclists fare best when they operate and behave as regular vehicles on
the road. I suggest you do a bit of research on vehicular cycling.

Thanks for the tip.

Wow! Someone who reads a.b. and didn't get defensive about the advice
dispensed. Well done!

--
BrettS

I'll use a footpath as a last resort when there is no other safe way to
proceed. The only place I do this where I live: in Frankston. Otherwise
known as the most dangerous place on earth for cyclists and
pedestrians.

On the footpath I proceed at pedestrian pace, and give way to
pedestrians. I don't like running down innocent walkers...

It is illegal in Victoria, but as I say if it is a choice between being
executed by car and riding on the footpath, then I'm on the footpath.

BrettM said:

Alternatively reversing alarms (I hate them but...) or have
the peds check properly or teach people to use their mirrors.
Actually having people drive straight onto the road might be
a problem. They typically go a little slower backwards.

Even when people do look, there's a tendency to drive straight out until they can see. Rather too late for anything that's coming on the footpath.
The trick is to stick your bumper out and pause, giving the opportunity to be seen before you edge out.

"aeek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Even when people do look, there's a tendency to drive straight out
until they can see. Rather too late for anything that's coming on the
footpath.
The trick is to stick your bumper out and pause, giving the opportunity
to be seen before you edge out.

Yes! Someone else who knows the correct method.
It doesn't matter whether you are coming out forwards or
backwards. If you don't have a clear view of the footpath,
poke one end of your vehicle out enough to be seen, pause,
then continue.

While running along the footpath, I've hit the side of a car
that reversed out without warning. I'm glad the car wasn't
a fraction of a second later or I might have been under it.

Back to the topic of riding on footpaths, the only suitable
speed is one which allows you to stop when someone
reverses out without warning. That means between
walking and running speed. If there are no driveways
across the footpath, and no pedestrians on the footpath,
then it is safe to travel much faster.

"neuroinf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is illegal in Victoria, but as I say if it is a choice between being
executed by car and riding on the footpath, then I'm on the footpath.

Rule #1: Don't get caught.
Rule #2: Don't hit a pedestrian.
Rule #3: Don't annoy or intimidate pedestrians.
Rule #4: Pass pedestrians at running pace or less (i.e. at pedestrian speeds).
Rule #5: Greet pedestrians with a friendly G'day or Hi.
Rule #6: Only do it where it makes sense, such as shortcut through the
end of a blocked off road, short distance to avoid crossing 4 lanes
of traffic twice in 100metres, avoiding crazy traffic turning off the
80km/h road onto the freeway (which isn't travelling much faster)
without bothering to look for anything other than cars.
Rule #7: If you pass a police car caught in the stationary traffic,
keep riding but don't wave.
Rule #8: Enjoy the days when there are more cyclists on the
footpath than pedestrians :-)

BrettM said:

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted message said:

<SNIP>

Quoted message said:

Only recently introduced under the new 'National' road
rules. For some reason the ACT and Qld have copped out and
allow all to ride on footpaths. A serious retrograde step
IMHO.

Ummm, how can it be retrograde when it was maintenance of an
existing law?????

Reread my post. Actually two retrograde aspects - first, the National Road
Rules are a backward step as down here in Victoria we are civilised about
cycling, treating it as vehicular transport. All vehicles ride on the road
of course, and until about 3 years ago with the intro of the National rules,
_all_ cycling was legally on the road. After all, traffic travels on the
road, and cycling is traffic.

Second, ACT and Qld have taken a backward step by not restricting footpath
cycling to children under 12, and adults accompanying them. Instead,
_everybody_ can ride the footpath. A bit like 'no-rules' football really,
potential for a bloodbath, and the playing environment actually becomes a
whole lot less safe.

I stand by my statement, a serious retrograde step for cycling.

Quoted message said:

Beyond that a signficant number of shared paths are actually
on the footpath. Qld was smart enough to realise that there
need to be some options available for people. Some people
will never feel comfortable on the road. I like being able
to choose depending on traffic.

Time for some bicycle traffic safety education (theory and practice)??
Actually the paradox is that the fewer cyclists that ride on the roads the
more unsafe it becomes for those that do, as motorists cease to expect
cyclists, and don't accept them as having a right to road space.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ride wider. Plan ahead and claim your road space. The car
drivers have to deal with it, and they _know it_, but if
your give them an inch....

Good when you can but sometimes it's better to turn the other
cheek and realise that the dude in the Toyo with
bullbar/scrubbars and pigdog cages in the back isn't going to
take any bl**dy notice.

So what do you do when you're going through an intersection and a
semi-trailer is coming up to the stop sign at the cross street?? You are a
person just as much as the redneck 4WDer. The only reason he will ignore
your rights is if you, and others like you, make a habit of giving up your
legitimate right to proceed. Of course don't ride into an accident, but
equally, don't give way where you don't need to, legally or from a safety
standpoint (the same thing, I know).

Cheers
Peter