Riding Etiquette - An Experience for Comment

"Prometheus" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

It was a great launch for my century. We had averaged around 19.5 up until that point, and the
group held that most of the way. I finished slower, but enjoyed it anyway. What would you all have
done? Do you let people in your lines??? When do you decide to dump the outsiders?

Century rides are often so crowded that it is hard to not draft the person in front of you. Letting
people into the middle of group is another matter. I would try to keep my group together and let the
outsiders draft at the back, or lead the front if they want to.

Prometheus said:

I rode my second century 2 weeks ago in Dublin, Ga. All in all it was a great ride. I made
significant improvement from the first century I rode some 7 months ago, and our local riding hero
finished it in 4 hrs., 15

min.

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Our local club had about 4 riding groups of different levels. I picked

the

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third group, and we started a 13 man pace line.

What, no women?

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I hung on with them for about an hour, but lost it because people we were overtaking started

trying

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to hang with our line.

Basically, we overtake someone. Then, they try to hang on to the end of

the

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line. It may have been two or three in their group. For a couple of

miles

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they could keep up. Then, the gaps start opening. Of course, they could hang together on flats and
down hills, but the gaps start up hills. This started breaking our original group. At one point, I
decided the gap was getting too big, and I passed the outsider on an uphill, but that essentially
burned me out. I hung with my group until the next hill, but then I lost it. Told the guys behind
me to go on when I couldn't hold the gap closed on the hill, I had enjoyed being a part of it to
that point.

It was a great launch for my century. We had averaged around 19.5 up

until

Quoted message said:

that point, and the group held that most of the way. I finished slower,

but

Quoted message said:

enjoyed it anyway. What would you all have done? Do you let people in

your

Quoted message said:

lines??? When do you decide to dump the outsiders?

Sounds like the typical century ride that turns into a race. In any case, if you want to stay with
the bunch, you should "close up" as soon as you see any gap opening, unless you're certain you can
bridge it. I suspect you might have been reaching the end of your string anyway. Would your group
have slowed if some of their own were struggling? Often it's just a matter of soft pedaling a bit
after a climb to re-group.

Personally, I'm not a fan of big pacelines anyway, especially with people I haven't ridden with
before. Sure you can do a faster century by riding in a paceline, but so what? I'd rather be safe
and enjoy the scenery by leaving a bike length between myself and the rider in front. You can get
just as good a workout (probably better) by NOT riding a paceline.

Art Harris

Prometheus said:

I rode my second century 2 weeks ago in Dublin, Ga. All in all it was a great ride. I made
significant improvement from the first century I rode some 7 months ago, and our local riding hero
finished it in 4 hrs., 15 min. Our local club had about 4 riding groups of different levels. I
picked the third group, and we started a 13 man pace line. I hung on with them for about an hour,
but lost it because people we were overtaking started trying to hang with our line.

Sounds typical. If you're talking about the St. Patrick's ride, that's always a hard ride. It's
early in the season, lots of folks haven't been on their bikes in months, and they're out there
trying to re-live last season's triumphs.

A 13 person pace line is a *big* paceline. Unless you're used to riding together, it's going to get
broken up by those choppy hills and the headwinds on that course.

Typically, people will join pacelines, work with you for a while, then go off the front or (more
commonly) off the back.

I don't have a problem with that, as typically I am a lone rider. I will join a paceline, work at
the front as needed, and if I fade, I pull out and fade. Lots of people just slow down and let a big
gap open up.

I remember pulling a large group for a while in the early part of the ride
- wasn't yours by any chance? I ended up averaging about 21 for the half century. Not bad for an out
of shape old guy :-)

What bugs me about these ad-hoc pacelines is that there is always some [censored] rubber banding, or (as
happened in Dublin this year) some tri-geek in the middle of the pack on his aero bars. From what
I'm told, he took several people with him when he took spill on a water bottle.

Dublin and Claxton are my favorite rides. A great way to begin and end the season. (BTW, 19.5 is a
very respectable pace for a century! Way to go.)

-Dondo

my $0.02

IMHO It's best to limit groups to no more than about 10 in the situation you describe unless
everyone is absolutely crystal clear of how you have the paceline working and can comfortably handle
the pace that you have set.

Hangers on (or catchers up) should be encouraged initially to sit at the back and let things work
smoothly in front of them, that way they get a rest and can observe which way you are rotating,
which side the pulls are going off etc etc, when and if they want to then start contributing to the
group their arrival at the "business end" of the paceline ought to be less disruptive.

One you're "in" and working don't let gaps form in front of you, FYI a century is not the place to
learn how to ride in a group, especially if you're at the edge of your ability of comfort, if you
can't or don't know what to do or how to stay in then do everyone a favour and draft off the back
and observe things, just make sure that everyone knows where you are and why.

If you get dropped sit up, recouperate, & wait for the next group when they pass, ask to slip in
behinfd them. Unless it's a race and there's money and tactics going on for 45th place most people
won't mind !

have fun... rubber side down

how

s and how if your comfortable in the group size your with then it's better to ask those who tag on
the back to stay there in the draft "Prometheus" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I rode my second century 2 weeks ago in Dublin, Ga. All in all it was a great ride. I made
significant improvement from the first century I rode some 7 months ago, and our local riding hero
finished it in 4 hrs., 15

min.

Quoted message said:

Our local club had about 4 riding groups of different levels. I picked

the

Quoted message said:

third group, and we started a 13 man pace line. I hung on with them for about an hour, but lost it
because people we were overtaking started

trying

Quoted message said:

to hang with our line.

Basically, we overtake someone. Then, they try to hang on to the end of

the

Quoted message said:

line. It may have been two or three in their group. For a couple of

miles

Quoted message said:

they could keep up. Then, the gaps start opening. Of course, they could hang together on flats and
down hills, but the gaps start up hills. This started breaking our original group. At one point, I
decided the gap was getting too big, and I passed the outsider on an uphill, but that essentially
burned me out. I hung with my group until the next hill, but then I lost it. Told the guys behind
me to go on when I couldn't hold the gap closed on the hill, I had enjoyed being a part of it to
that point.

It was a great launch for my century. We had averaged around 19.5 up

until

Quoted message said:

that point, and the group held that most of the way. I finished slower,

but

Quoted message said:

enjoyed it anyway. What would you all have done? Do you let people in

your

Quoted message said:

lines??? When do you decide to dump the outsiders?

"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's hard to get other people to cooperate effectively in

a century since

Quoted message said:

skill and experience levels vary so much. This is

particularly so if your

Quoted message said:

club's riders aren't all wearing the same kit. But

basically, just tell any

Quoted message said:

outsiders to sit on the back if they can't keep the gaps

tight and let the

Quoted message said:

riders who're rotating back from the front slot in ahead

of them. If they

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try to mix in your group anyway and start fouling up the

works, don't wait

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until they gap you off to let them know they're screwing

you up. Most

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probably just think they're supposed to work and will

appreciate being given

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a pass, but some folks show up with more ego than strength

and you'll just

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have to ride them off.

I think this is the best way to look at it, but the point has to be made politely on these social
rides. Somehow explain to people that they're welcome joining your paceline, but if they can't keep
the gaps tight they should let others move up and do the pulling. And in that case, they're welcome
to ride the rear.

While it's easy to put people down for having more enthusiasm than strength, courtesy in a non-race
situation dictates giving everyone a chance. Don't let your paceline or peloton become like a junior
high school in-group, or even leave the impression that it is. Unfortunately, too many are, and it
puts people off our sport.

Matt O.

Prometheus said:

Our local club had about 4 riding groups of different levels. I picked the third group, and we
started a 13 man pace line. I hung on with them for about an hour, but lost it because people we
were overtaking started trying to hang with our line.

Basically, we overtake someone. Then, they try to hang on to the end of the line. It may have been
two or three in their group. For a couple of miles they could keep up. Then, the gaps start
opening. Of course, they could hang together on flats and down hills, but the gaps start up hills.
This started breaking our original group. At one point, I decided the gap was getting too big, and
I passed the outsider on an uphill, but that essentially burned me out. I hung with my group until
the next hill, but then I lost it. Told the guys behind me to go on when I couldn't hold the gap
closed on the hill, I had enjoyed being a part of it to that point.

It was a great launch for my century. We had averaged around 19.5 up until that point, and the
group held that most of the way. I finished slower, but enjoyed it anyway. What would you all have
done? Do you let people in your lines??? When do you decide to dump the outsiders?

It's a century, not a race. For one thing, a 13-man pace line going through a crowd in a century is
not particularly safe. If you are at the front of the crowd, that is, if you start early enough,
then at your pace you will not have stragglers latching on to you, since they will be behind you.
But you are moving through traffic (see my first sentence), so you can expect to pick up folks who
can't bear to let a wheel go by without latching on.

I would say it's no big deal if these riders know how to ride in a paceline. If they don't, then
gaps are not the only thing to worry about. Telling a rider he can't latch on is kind of rude --
remember, this is not a race -- unless he proves himself to be unsafe in the group.

Finally, crossing a small gap to get back into the line should not blow you up. I don't think the
hangers-on were the cause of your trouble. Either you let a really large gap appear before you did
anything, which you should be able to control on a climb, or the hangers-on were able to block you
out (again, doubtful on a climb, besides, these would not be riders who were that experienced, or
had any reason to block you), -- or the pace was a bit too high for you.

If these stragglers are hanging on to the end of the line, and if they are just hanging on, they
would probably be happy to let you in in front of them.

Best solution would be to let them hang on the back, if they can, but don't put them in the rotation
unless they are strong enough to help out. The ones who can help, help everyone, and those in the
back are, after all, behind you.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're _`\(,_ | still a rat. --Lilly
Tomlin (_)/ (_) |

Matt O'Toole said:

Don't let your paceline or peloton become like a junior high school in-group, or even leave the
impression that it is. Unfortunately, too many are, and it puts people off our sport.

Also, don't let your paceline:
- start acting as though the riders think they own the road by
- hogging the center of the road
- filling the entire lane, as much as 6 abreast
- slopping over across the yellow line into the oncoming lane
- refusing to yield or allow cars pass at all
- go around people and cut them off in front
- box people in on the right making it impossible for them to pass slower riders they're gaining on

I've seen all the above on centuries. I've even had a peleton refuse to let me pass when I was
driving the century SAG wagon! If they make the SAG wagon driver mad enough to want to give them a
wee tap on the back wheel in the name of courtesy, can you imagine how they make bike-hating
locals feel?

Quoted message said:

It's a century, not a race.

This my thinking. Personally I just let the pace lines go and ride along, enjoying the scenery and
talking to people, and maybe even make a new friend or two.

If I am feeling ambitious, I will ride by myself at a hard pace.

But in my view Century's are fun rides. If I want to be competitive, then I believe that the proper
venue is an organized race where everyone is racing and everyone understands the rules.

Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs said:

Quoted message said:

It's a century, not a race.

This my thinking. Personally I just let the pace lines go and ride along, enjoying the scenery and
talking to people, and maybe even make a new friend or two.

It depends on the route and conditions, I guess. It sure was nice to be in a pace line on last
weekend's Tierra Bella 200K, where there was a 30-40 mile section into a stiff headwind.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA terrymorse.combikeOpen ↗

Jon Isaacs said:

If I want to be competitive, then I believe that the proper venue is an organized race where
everyone is

racing and

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everyone understands the rules.

Well said, Jon. I've been on many club rides that turned into races. When the adrenaline starts
flowing and a "break" develops, that's when some folks get carried away and start running red
lights, etc. Yet when I suggest they consider getting a license and trying some organized races,
most look at me like I'm crazy.

Art Harris

Quoted message said:

While it's easy to put people down for having more enthusiasm than strength, courtesy in a
non-race situation dictates giving everyone a chance. Don't let your paceline or peloton become
like a junior high school in-group, or even leave the impression that it is. Unfortunately, too
many are, and it puts people off our sport.

I don't know, I pretty much consider joining a pace line without permission kind of rude. If a group
wants to do a long ride together, then I think they shouldn't feel anti-social about doing that.
Riding in a smoothly rotating, evenly matched, pace line is a joy. I'm sure a lot of people don't
mind "ad hoc" pace lines, but I think the polite thing is to ask, and it shouldn't offend anyone to
hear a "no, we'd rather you didn't".

One of our club's weekly rides is organized into small (5-8) pace lines with staggered starts, and
riders grouped by speed. It works very well. The small groups merge much better with traffic (this
is a weekday early evening ride), and the rotations are very smooth. Since the faster groups go out
first, if anyone made a mistake in joining too fast a group, they can drop off and join the
following one. Other than that, people are asked to stay with their group. If one group meets
another at a traffic light, the second group just pauses for an extra light cycle. I'd *love* to
ride in a century organized this way!

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's hard to get other people to cooperate effectively in

a century since

Quoted message said:

skill and experience levels vary so much. This is

particularly so if your

Quoted message said:

club's riders aren't all wearing the same kit. But

basically, just tell any

Quoted message said:

outsiders to sit on the back if they can't keep the gaps

tight and let the

Quoted message said:

riders who're rotating back from the front slot in ahead

of them. If they

Quoted message said:

try to mix in your group anyway and start fouling up the

works, don't wait

Quoted message said:

until they gap you off to let them know they're screwing

you up. Most

Quoted message said:

probably just think they're supposed to work and will

appreciate being given

Quoted message said:

a pass, but some folks show up with more ego than strength

and you'll just

Quoted message said:

have to ride them off.

I think this is the best way to look at it, but the point has to be made politely on these social
rides. Somehow explain to people that they're welcome joining your paceline, but if they can't
keep the gaps tight they should let others move up and do the pulling. And in that case, they're
welcome to ride the rear.

While it's easy to put people down for having more enthusiasm than strength, courtesy in a
non-race situation dictates giving everyone a chance. Don't let your paceline or peloton become
like a junior high school in-group, or even leave the impression that it is. Unfortunately, too
many are, and it puts people off our sport.

Matt O.

I wasn't putting anyone down for not being strong enough, only pointing out that some folks let
their egos get a bit out of hand and try to muscle their way into a bunch they have no business in
due to lack of both fitness and pack skills. All they accomplish is to ruin the flow of a smooth
working group and annoy everyone around them by riding as if they were heading straight into the
Arenberg Forest. Comes from watching too many Lance videos... I've had plenty of guys try to ride me
off a wheel in a group, only to blow sky high on the next bump in the road. By all means, give them
pointers and/or let them know it's cool to just sit on the back, but if they don't take the hint and
insist on screwing up your group, ride 'em off...

When I hook up with a paceline, and it becomes apparent the pace is too far beyond what I can hold,
I let them go. Especially if I know I have a lot of miles to cover.

As you found out, once you've burned up your glycogen reserves (basically, sugars stored in your
muscle tissue), you can still keep pedalling, but only at a slow pace (especially up hills).

If you are pushing your muscles too hard for your cardiovascular system to properly supply them with
energy (read: blood sugar), you are tapping into those reserves.

Best bet is stay away from groups that are too fast for you. Take a hint from the ones that drop off
and go with them at a pace you can maintain for the distance required, and save the extra-hard
pushing for the training rides.

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗