Rhetoric Not Matching Reality

More of the typical Bush bashing from the usual Bush hating whackos who
find fault with everything and anything this President does. I just
watched NBC, CNN, and the BBC and the news story they told was far
different. Yes, the Gulf Coast is a disaster area. But supplies are
getting in, people have all been moved from the Superdome, and even the
Mayor of New Orleans, now says things are getting much better.

BTW, has anyone asked the Mayor to explain why he allowed bars to stay
open with TV stations showing Mardi Gras like hurricane celebrations
taking place as the hurricane approached? That sent a mesg to the
public that it was OK to stay, precisely the opposite of what should
have been done. Or has anyone asked the Governor why she didn't call
out the National Guard as the storm approached or even after the first
signs of looting? Or asked the police chief why people were not forced
to evacuate, as they do in any other place with common sense?

No, it's easier to just blame President Bush. Michael Moore even has
blamed the president for causing the hurricane. What a sad bunch of
losers, trying to divide a country at a time when we should be united.

Quoted message said:

More of the typical Bush bashing from the usual Bush hating whackos who
find fault with everything and anything this President does.

To contrast with ideological featherweights who excuse him all his
egregious blunders and mostly call names instead of offering anything
approaching substance.

The rest of us look at the facts. All the namecalling and distortions
and spin don't make the pictures go away.

Quoted message said:

I just
watched NBC, CNN, and the BBC and the news story they told was far
different. Yes, the Gulf Coast is a disaster area. But supplies are
getting in, people have all been moved from the Superdome, and even the
Mayor of New Orleans, now says things are getting much better.

BTW, has anyone asked the Mayor to explain why he allowed bars to stay
open with TV stations showing Mardi Gras like hurricane celebrations
taking place as the hurricane approached? That sent a mesg to the
public that it was OK to stay, precisely the opposite of what should
have been done. Or has anyone asked the Governor why she didn't call
out the National Guard as the storm approached or even after the first
signs of looting? Or asked the police chief why people were not forced
to evacuate, as they do in any other place with common sense?

Right. <LOL> Blame the mayor for allowing business to be business. The
governor *did* call out the LA guard that was still there - minus the
bunch in IRAQ. But for her to do that, she needs approval from D.C. and
that took four days. Force a million people to evacuate? How would that
have happened in an urban area where, typically, few have personal
transportation. Buses? Trains? To where?

Quoted message said:

No, it's easier to just blame President Bush. Michael Moore even has
blamed the president for causing the hurricane. What a sad bunch of
losers, trying to divide a country at a time when we should be united.

It's easy to blame Bush for declaring a state of emergency and doing
nothing else until after the storm hit the fan. He went to San Diego
when Katrina hit to deliver a speech instead of personally supervising
emergency operations.

That Bush that stood in the rubble on 9/12 was a decisive, courageous
leader. The one that left everything to others in this catastrophe is not.

Pastorio

"Right. <LOL> Blame the mayor for allowing business to be business. "

Yes, I do blame the mayor for allowing New Orleans bars to host
hurricane parties. As would any other reasonable person. Only a Bush
hating whacko would give a pass to the mayor for that one, while
heaping scorn on President Bush and attributing everything negative to
him. The mayor and/or governor could have ordered businesses to close
and people to evacuate. Folks here who are in hurricane areas will
tell you that is exactly what is done in many vulnerable areas in a
hurricane's path. And those areas aren't 25 feet below sea level.

Instead the mayor/governor sat by as bars served drinks, intoxicating
patrons as a cataegory 5 hurricane approached. And others watched it
on TV, sending the message that if the bars are open, it can't be all
that bad.

"The governor *did* call out the LA guard that was still there - minus
the
bunch in IRAQ. But for her to do that, she needs approval from D.C. and

that took four days. "

That's absolute BS. The governor of a state can call out the states
national guard without approval from anyone. And to suggest that it
took 4 days and the delay was in Washington will be proven to be false.
No one, certainly not you, knows the sequence of events, or exactly
what happened, at this point. But whacko Bush haters like you just
blame President Bush for everything, in the process dividing the
country at a critical time."

"Force a million people to evacuate? How would that
have happened in an urban area where, typically, few have personal
transportation. Buses? Trains? To where? "

That's a classic. After the disaster, anything President Bush and FEMA
does is too little too late. Yet to evacuate the city in two days
BEFORE, is unreasonable? I saw long lines of cars on TV for well over
a day as people who listened were leaving. That is exactly what the
mayor/governor told people to do, they just didn't follow through and
make it mandatory, going through neighborhoods with bull horns. That
is what other sea shore towns have done for years. As to what they
could have done, look here:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

Here's a 1000 fueled up New Orleans school busses, now sitting under
water. I guess it was too much for the brilliant chief of police or
mayor of New Orleans or governor to have used them for free rides out
of town for the poor. Or maybe they preferred to have a train wreck,
so, like you they could blame President Bush!

Bob (this one) said:

That Bush that stood in the rubble on 9/12 was a decisive, courageous
leader. The one that left everything to others in this catastrophe is not.

He was just as big a fraud then as he is now. Nothing's changed on that
front.

"He was just as big a fraud then as he is now. Nothing's changed on
that
front. "

It's so sad that people like you seek to take cheap political shots and
divide the country at a time when we should be united. And most
Americans obviously don't agree with your opinion, because they
re-elected him in decisive victory last November.

Quoted message said:

"He was just as big a fraud then as he is now. Nothing's changed on
that
front. "

It's so sad that people like you seek to take cheap political shots and
divide the country at a time when we should be united. And most
Americans obviously don't agree with your opinion, because they
re-elected him in decisive victory last November.

Pretty tough to "re-elect" someone who wasn't elected in the first
place.

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bob (this one) said:

That Bush that stood in the rubble on 9/12 was a decisive, courageous
leader. The one that left everything to others in this catastrophe is
not.

He was just as big a fraud then as he is now. Nothing's changed on that
front.

Oh poor vile wench.
Still reeling over being REJECTED like your treasonist hero John sKerry by
Americans.

Do the best thing you can EVER do, kill yourself.
Do your part to cleanse the human gene pool.

Quoted message said:

"He was just as big a fraud then as he is now. Nothing's changed on
that front. "

It's so sad that people like you seek to take cheap political shots and
divide the country at a time when we should be united. And most
Americans obviously don't agree with your opinion, because they
re-elected him in decisive victory last November.

Sure. Try facts instead.

That "decisive victory" was the smallest margin ever for a sitting
president to be re-elected. Yes, he was re-elected, and with the largest
vote ever. Followed very closely by the second-largest vote getter in
history.

He won. Barely. It was enough to be re-elected. But nothing like you're
trying to make it look like.

We should be united, but I find it hard to rally behind this
administration. Did you see that Halliburton just got another no-bid
contract to help clean up New Orleans? How many have they gotten now...?

I'll unite behind a president and an administration that tries to be
honest with us. Even Newt Gingrich says this one's a failure.
Republicans in congress and in state houses all over the country are
falling away. Lowest ratings for "honesty" - 48% - last week. Wonder
what it is after this fiasco.

Pastorio

"He won. Barely. It was enough to be re-elected. But nothing like
you're
trying to make it look like. "

Take a look at a map Bob. The day after the last election, you could
have put John Kerry on a plane in Washington DC and flown him all the
way to California before crossing a state that he won. That is a
decisive victory. And every time the Bush bashers start blaming him
for everything that goes wrong, the more mainstream America likes him.
I didn't really like him all that much, but when I hear Michael Moore
blame him for creating the hurricane, or guys like you, who don't even
know the Governor of Louisiana is the one to mobilize the National
Guard, blaming President Bush for the National Guard not being there
sooner, it just makes me like him more. And then when I point out that
the Mayor of NO acted irresponsibly by allowing hurricane parties to go
on at bars the night before the hurrican approached, which TV covered
sending the wrong message to millions at a time when they should have
been enforcing a mandatory evacuation, your answer is, that the mayor
was just letting business do business? You're obviously so biased
that you have zero credibility.

"<LOL> Right you are. A reasonable person. Bwah... "

Then maybe you should listen to what former President Clinton had to
say when appearing on CNN:

MALVEAUX: Let me ask you this: There are some people at the New
Orleans Convention Center who say that they have been living like
animals -- no food, no water, no power. And they are the ones who are
saying: Where are the buses? Where are the planes? Why did it take
three days to see a real federal response here? Mr. Bush, you, whether
it's fair or not, had gone through some administration criticism about
your handling of Hurricane Andrew.

CLINTON: Let me answer this. The people in the Superdome are in a
special position. And let me say, I've been going to New Orleans for
over 50 years. There's no place on earth I love more. They went into
the Superdome, not because of the flooding, but because we thought the
hurricane was going to hit New Orleans smack dab and they'd be safe in
there if they didn't leave town.

What happened was, when the levee broke and the town flooded, what
did it do? It knocked out the electricity and it knocked out the
sewage. They're living in hellacious conditions. They would be better
off under a tree than being stuck there. You can't even breathe in that

place now.

So I understand why they're so anxiety-ridden. But they have to
understand, by the time it became obvious that they were in the fix
they were in, there were a lot of other problems, too. There were
people -- they were worried about people drowning that had to be taken
off roofs.

MALVEAUX: So you two believe that the federal response was fast
enough?

CLINTON: All I'm saying is what I know the facts are today. There
are hundreds of buses now engaged in the act of taking people from New
Orleans to the Astrodome in Houston. And you and I are not in a
position to make any judgment because we weren't there.

All I'm saying is the way they got stuck there, I see why they feel

the way they do. But the people that put them there did it because they

thought they were saving their lives. And then when the problems showed

up, they had a lot of other people to save. Now they've got hundreds of

buses. We just need to get them out. I think they'll all be out by
tomorrow. Didn't they say they would all be out by tomorrow morning?

CLINTON: Yes, I think that's important to point out. Because when
you say that they should have done this, that or the other thing first,

you can look at that problem in isolation, and you can say that.

But look at all the other things they had to deal with. I'm telling

you, nobody thought this was going to happen like this. But what
happened here is they escaped -- New Orleans escaped Katrina. But it
brought all the water up the Mississippi River and all in the
Pontchartrain, and then when it started running and that levee broke,
they had problems they never could have foreseen.

And so I just think that we need to recognize right now there's a
confident effort under way. People are doing the best they can. And I
just don't think it's the time to worry about that. We need to keep
people alive and get them back to life -- normal life. \\\

So, here we have Clinton, who has direct experience, explaining the
sequence of events, the magnitude of the disaster, and what realistic
expectations are in a situation like this. Unlike you and the Bush
bashers, he isn't pointing fingers and making ridiculous claims, is he?

"They ordered an evacuation. Mandatory? Do you think this is Cuba or
North Korea with a dictator? What kind of Nazi-think is this:? "

You really are quite ignorant, Bob. Try watching the news more before
shooting off your mouth. Mandatory evacuations are quite common for
approaching hurricanes. Emergency personnel are sent into
neighborhoods with bull horns, ordering people to leave. In some
cases, they go house to house, knocking on doors. Even here in the
northeast when there is a snow emergency, businesses are ordered
closed, people are ordered not to drive unless they are essential
personnel. Do they physically drag people away? Usually not, but by
being agressive, people get the message that it's urgent that they
leave.

But in NO, the mayor, governor, and chief of police sat by while bars
hosted hurricane parties. And you justify that as OK, but then take
every shot at President Bush, accusing him of doing everything wrong.
Quite remarkable.

"It's not anywhere near 1000 - more like 120 or so in the picture. You
have no idea if they're fueled up and, as you claim above about
everybody else, you have no idea of the circumstances surrounding the
events. Were there drivers for them? How many had already evacuated?
Figure 50 per bus - way overloaded - and it comes to 6000 people. It
makes not a trifling dent in the - literally - million refugees. "

Bob, are you math challenged too? The buses could have made many trips
over 2 days, so even with your low estimate of 120 buses, just 17 trips
would move over 100,000. Yes, I guess 120 buses taking 50 people at a
time over two days wasn't worth doing. Had President Bush taken that
position, you would be calling him a racist for ignoring the poor black
people and letting them die. Jesse Jackson is doing that anyway. He
doesn't care if he turns a desperate situation into a race riot in the
process. After all, that would be Bush's fault too, right?

As for how many buses, I've seen reports of up to a thousand total that
were available. The picture is of one group, not all of them. And it
was reported that they were fully fueled in anticipation of school
opening. Whatever number they could have moved, it would have helped
save lives of the poor that guys like you claim had no way to leave.
For God's sake, even a moron that's running the schools or bus system
should have had sense enought to move the buses inland. But, I know,
it's President Bush's fault! LOL

Quoted message said:

"He won. Barely. It was enough to be re-elected. But nothing like
you're trying to make it look like. "

Take a look at a map Bob.

Take a course in civics, blowhole. Maps don't vote, people vote.

Quoted message said:

The day after the last election, you could
have put John Kerry on a plane in Washington DC and flown him all the
way to California before crossing a state that he won.

States don't vote, people vote. Empty farmland and forests and deserts
don't count in elections. Only the number of votes. And votes only come
from people.

Quoted message said:

That is a
decisive victory. And every time the Bush bashers start blaming him
for everything that goes wrong, the more mainstream America likes him.

I guess that's why his approval ratings in the last month have slipped
below 50% and are heading south even faster since his non-action for
Katrina. At the beginning of last week, his "honesty" rating was at 48%.
This spinning and self-congratulating won't win him any faith from the
hundreds of millions watching the scene of devastation as bad as the
tsunami with delayed action and too-sparse action.

Quoted message said:

I didn't really like him all that much,

Bwah... But he's perfect, you assert.

Quoted message said:

but when I hear Michael Moore
blame him for creating the hurricane,

Could this be a more stupid statement from you? That's a rhetorical
question. Have someone explain that to you.

Quoted message said:

or guys like you, who don't even
know the Governor of Louisiana is the one to mobilize the National
Guard, blaming President Bush for the National Guard not being there
sooner, it just makes me like him more.

Besides being rather stupid, you're really rather stupid. And did I
mention dishonest. I gave you all the information a person of normal
intelligence would need regarding the national guard and you still want
to try to divert from the reality. I don't blame Bush for the national
guard sluggishness. It's the bureaucracy surrounding it. I blame Bush
for not cutting through it. I blame him for going to San Diego to make a
speech while millions of Americans are dying, losing their entire lives
and facing privation for months and years. He made a speech. A freakin
speech.

Did he play Nero's fiddle while talking?

Quoted message said:

And then when I point out that
the Mayor of NO acted irresponsibly by allowing hurricane parties to go
on at bars the night before the hurrican approached, which TV covered
sending the wrong message to millions at a time when they should have
been enforcing a mandatory evacuation, your answer is, that the mayor
was just letting business do business? You're obviously so biased
that you have zero credibility.

I know you'd rather live in a dictatorship where the sheeplike
population is told to do everything the masters above wanted, but this
is America and you seem not to ever have read the declaration and the
constitution. The few who watched tv ("millions" you say without
anything like proof - just like your "1000 school buses" with 100
visible) may have misjudged the severity. The other millions who are now
homeless, unemployed and facing personal and commercial bankruptcy did
as they were told and look at them. You want to offer spurious focus on
the action of a mayor and try to divert attention from the real inaction
of the president.

Spin, spin, spin...

What is, is. All your words of diversion, evasion and trying to shift
blame amount to sound and fury.

Pastorio

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

you, nobody thought this was going to happen like this. But what
happened here is they escaped -- New Orleans escaped Katrina. But it
brought all the water up the Mississippi River and all in the
Pontchartrain, and then when it started running and that levee broke,
they had problems they never could have foreseen.

And so I just think that we need to recognize right now there's a
confident effort under way. People are doing the best they can. And I
just don't think it's the time to worry about that. We need to keep
people alive and get them back to life -- normal life. \\\

So, here we have Clinton, who has direct experience, explaining the
sequence of events, the magnitude of the disaster, and what realistic
expectations are in a situation like this. Unlike you and the Bush
bashers, he isn't pointing fingers and making ridiculous claims, is he?

In a nutshell.

"The few who watched tv ("millions" you say without
anything like proof - just like your "1000 school buses" with 100
visible) may have misjudged the severity. "

Yes Bob, I feel your frustration. I know proof is always required of
me, and only of me, including exactly how many in the New Orleans area
were watching the news on TV the eve of the hurricane. Please hold
your breath while I get back to you on that one, OK?

"The other millions who are now
homeless, unemployed and facing personal and commercial bankruptcy did
as they were told and look at them. You want to offer spurious focus on

the action of a mayor and try to divert attention from the real
inaction
of the president. "

Yes, Bob, that's how it works in the real world. It's a [censored] isn't
it? You do as your told and your home is still destroyed by a
hurricane. And it's all President Bush's fault. BTW, if these people
did as they were told or had common sense, they wouldn't have shown up
at the Superdome without any water would they? Anyone with a pulse
knows that the std advice for a hurricane is to take water and some
food for a few days with you. I know, the people were so poor they
didn't have a plastic jug to put water in. And that's Bush's fault
too. LOL

CatMan said:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bob (this one) said:

That Bush that stood in the rubble on 9/12 was a decisive, courageous
leader. The one that left everything to others in this catastrophe is
not.

He was just as big a fraud then as he is now. Nothing's changed on that
front.

Oh poor vile wench.
Still reeling over being REJECTED like your treasonist hero John sKerry by
Americans.

Do the best thing you can EVER do, kill yourself.
Do your part to cleanse the human gene pool.

Why is it that Bush supporters so rarely put forth cogent arguments to
support their position and instead resort to barely coherent personal
attacks?

Clinton has totally wimped out on criticizing Bush for a long time. Maybe
he is concerned about hurting Hillary's image as a centrist. Or maybe his
own in case he is up for confirmation for some appointment.

In news:[email hidden],
[email hidden] <[email hidden]> stated
| "<LOL> Right you are. A reasonable person. Bwah... "
|
| Then maybe you should listen to what former President Clinton had to
| say when appearing on CNN:
|
|

"Why is it that Bush supporters so rarely put forth cogent arguments to

support their position and instead resort to barely coherent personal
attacks? "

Now that's a classic, coming from someone who just posted this:

"He (Bush)was just as big a fraud then as he is now. Nothing's changed
on that
front. "

Or perhaps Clinton knows how difficult some decisions can be, having been
there.

How much experience do you have?

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clinton has totally wimped out on criticizing Bush for a long time. Maybe
he is concerned about hurting Hillary's image as a centrist. Or maybe his
own in case he is up for confirmation for some appointment.

In news:[email hidden],
[email hidden] <[email hidden]> stated
| "<LOL> Right you are. A reasonable person. Bwah... "
|
| Then maybe you should listen to what former President Clinton had to
| say when appearing on CNN:
|
|

I don't run for positions that I don't have the qualifications for, so that
question is irrelevant. Clinton wimped out as soon as he was elected. His
biggest problem was trying to please everybody.

In news:[email hidden],
JC Der Koenig <[email hidden]> stated
| Or perhaps Clinton knows how difficult some decisions can be, having
| been there.
|
| How much experience do you have?
|
|
| "FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
| news:[email hidden]...
|| Clinton has totally wimped out on criticizing Bush for a long time.
|| Maybe he is concerned about hurting Hillary's image as a centrist.
|| Or maybe his own in case he is up for confirmation for some
|| appointment.
||
|| In news:[email hidden],
|| [email hidden] <[email hidden]> stated
||| "<LOL> Right you are. A reasonable person. Bwah... "
|||
||| Then maybe you should listen to what former President Clinton had to
||| say when appearing on CNN:

Quoted message said:

"The few who watched tv ("millions" you say without
anything like proof - just like your "1000 school buses" with 100
visible) may have misjudged the severity. "

Yes Bob, I feel your frustration. I know proof is always required of
me, and only of me, including exactly how many in the New Orleans area
were watching the news on TV the eve of the hurricane. Please hold
your breath while I get back to you on that one, OK?

Translation: I made it up.

Quoted message said:

"The other millions who are now
homeless, unemployed and facing personal and commercial bankruptcy did
as they were told and look at them. You want to offer spurious focus on
the action of a mayor and try to divert attention from the real
inaction of the president. "

Yes, Bob, that's how it works in the real world. It's a [censored] isn't
it? You do as your told and your home is still destroyed by a
hurricane.

Puhleeze. We're not talking about the loss of buildings. We're talking
about food and water. Medical supplies. No one can stop the force of the
storm. But to have to wait for days and days for food and water when the
storm was well-understood is simply a breakdown in emergency response.

Quoted message said:

And it's all President Bush's fault.

You keep throwing this is as though you've somehow demonstrated that he
did a good job with this catastrophe. He hasn't. But your use of it as a
refrain taken to this ridiculous extreme really does show the poverty of
your position. Of course, it's not Bush's fault that there was a
hurricane. Of course it's not his fault that the roof of the dome broke.
But it is his fault that he didn't take charge of this situation and
direct people like you Giuliani did in New York. This was a federal
problem because it encompassed several states. Far beyond the capacities
of any city or state to deal with in as global a way as the events
demanded. Bush didn't do a Giuliani. He went to California to make a
speech. He cut his 5-week vacation short by two days to fly to
Washington. Not to the Gulf Coast - only later did he put in an
appearance. And then he explained how the response was inadequate. No
one had noticed that already.

No, seriously...

Quoted message said:

BTW, if these people
did as they were told or had common sense, they wouldn't have shown up
at the Superdome without any water would they? Anyone with a pulse
knows that the std advice for a hurricane is to take water and some
food for a few days with you. I know, the people were so poor they
didn't have a plastic jug to put water in.

Right. A gallon or two of water lasts for what a week? Ok, five days?
All right, maybe three days? In 90+ degree heat?

Fine. You've allocated all the blame to one mayor of one town. Great
job. A masterful display of spin. Now what to do about the problems? How
to deal with what will be years in the repair? What about all the
businesses and industries destroyed? Homes just gone. Corpses floating
in the water? Farms destroyed? What's to happen with all those
questions? Will that be the problem of the mayors and governors alone?

Quoted message said:

And that's Bush's fault too. LOL

Simplistic, diversionary idiot.

Pastorio