Returning a new bike to halfords

Hi, I was hoping people may be able to advise me re. a bike I bought recently.
Two weeks ago I bought a bmx type bike for my four year old from halfords.
I have several problems with it.
The back brake has caliper brakes and only one brake block was moving. I took this back for adjustment last week and they couldn't adjust it correctly and said there was nothing more they could do.
My lad couldn't reach the brakes so i tried too adjust them using the phillips head screw so the lever was nearer the handlebars before he put them on. the front adjusted okay but the back brake just screwed into fresh air and it made not a jot of difference.
It rained whilst he was out on it on friday. It has painted wheels and the brake blocks have taken all the blue paint of the rims, leaving it down to the metal underneath.
I had a closer look then and noticed there was patches of paint missing from the crossbar and a couple of rust sopots on the frame.
Halfords are passing me from pillar to post and say the removal of paint is normal and the rust is due to it not being looked after, and won't give me a replacement as they say they can't sell it second hand ..............due to its poor condition.
can anyone advise re my rights, or what i shoul do. i am waiting for a manager ringing me back and am not that up on bikes to know what to say to them. any suggestions/help appreciated.

Skunk said:

Two weeks ago I bought a bmx type bike for my four year old from
halfords.
I have several problems with it.

<snip>

The brakes non-adjustment issue make it, I'd have thought, basically not
fit for purpose sold, and hence they owe you a full refund PDQ.

The Magic Words are "Sale of Goods Act"

Anything you purchase must meet 3 requirements. The goods must;
1. be of merchantable quality.
2. fit their description.
3. be fit for their purpose.
A failure in any one of these means you can sue.

Maybe if it was advertised as a heap of dreck they'd get away with 2,
but 1 and 3 sound like shaky ground to me.

When you've got your money back you may want to look elsewhere for a
bike for your son. Note that in general young infants have trouble with
hand operated brakes: their hands just aren't big and strong enough, so
look for a bike with a back pedal brake. The German Puky range looks
like bikes designed by people who appreciate bikes, see
http://www.puky.de/gb/ They have various UK dealers.

--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 23:58:46 +1100, Skunk
<[email hidden]> wrote:

You don't state how much you paid for the bike. Whilst it is
reasonable to expect that a cheaper bike will be more problematic, the
problems you have stated (in my opinion) are totally unacceptable even
for the cheapest of bikes. By the way, I am not a lawyer ...

Quoted message said:

The back brake has caliper brakes and only one brake block was moving.
I took this back for adjustment last week and they couldn't adjust it
correctly and said there was nothing more they could do.

Then it is unsuitable for its intended purpose. You are entiltled to
your choice of either a refund or replacement.

I would question teh competence of the mechanic resposnsible.

Quoted message said:

My lad couldn't reach the brakes so i tried too adjust them using the
phillips head screw so the lever was nearer the handlebars before he
put them on. the front adjusted okay but the back brake just screwed
into fresh air and it made not a jot of difference.

Assuming you are indeed screwing the correct screw then it is
unsuitable for its intended purpose. You are entiltled to your choice
of either a refund or replacement.

Quoted message said:

It rained whilst he was out on it on friday. It has painted wheels and
the brake blocks have taken all the blue paint of the rims, leaving it
down to the metal underneath.

I don't know where you stand here.

Quoted message said:

I had a closer look then and noticed there was patches of paint missing
from the crossbar and a couple of rust sopots on the frame.

Then it is unsuitable for its intended purpose. You are entiltled to
your choice of either a refund or replacement.

Quoted message said:

Halfords are passing me from pillar to post and say the removal of
paint is normal and the rust is due to it not being looked after, and

A properly painted frame should not rust after two weeks. Components
may well rust after this time if left out in the rain. But a properly
painted frame should not rust. You are entiltled to your choice of
either a refund or replacement.

Quoted message said:

won't give me a replacement as they say they can't sell it second hand
.............due to its poor condition.

I don't think it is fit for selling second hand. Sigh!

Quoted message said:

can anyone advise re my rights, or what i shoul do. i am waiting for a
manager ringing me back and am not that up on bikes to know what to say
to them. any suggestions/help appreciated.

State that you the bicycle is not suitable for its intended purpose.
State that under the Sale of Goods Act you are entitled to choose
either a refund or a replacement. This is *your* choice: Not the
shop's choice.

If they still don't budge then state that you will either: a) Contact
Trading Standards or b) Take the matter to Small Claims Court.
(Depending on how confident you feel).

--
Warning: This user suffers from narcolepppppppppp
ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

Skunk said:

Two weeks ago I bought a bmx type bike for my four year old from
halfords.

A mistake I venture to suggest you may not make again :-)

Quoted message said:

I have several problems with it.
The back brake has caliper brakes and only one brake block was moving.
I took this back for adjustment last week and they couldn't adjust it
correctly and said there was nothing more they could do.
My lad couldn't reach the brakes so i tried too adjust them using the
phillips head screw so the lever was nearer the handlebars before he
put them on. the front adjusted okay but the back brake just screwed
into fresh air and it made not a jot of difference.
It rained whilst he was out on it on friday. It has painted wheels and
the brake blocks have taken all the blue paint of the rims, leaving it
down to the metal underneath.
I had a closer look then and noticed there was patches of paint missing
from the crossbar and a couple of rust sopots on the frame.

*IANAL* but assuming that the rust is genuinely not the result of it
having been left outside for two weeks, I would invoke the Sale of
Goods Act. It is not of merchantable quality, and evidently not fit
for purpose either if the brakes don't work and it doesn't fit (as
evidence the fact that your child can't reach or work the brakes
properly).

You should write a letter to the manager of the branch stating that it
is not fit for purpose and not of merchantable quality and that you
are rejecting the bicycle. Two weeks is just about within the
acceptable timeframe for rejecting it outright, I'd say.Having given
them a chance to fix it and they've failed, you are justified in
asking for your money back. I would give them 14 days to respond
after which you will start proceedings against them through the small
claims procedure.

Alternatively if you paid by credit card, let your card issuer know.
Under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act your claim is actually
against them, although they will try to pretend it isn't.

Then go to a proper bike shop and buy a bike with alloy rims (on which
the brakes might work), and which fits. Room for growth? Bollocks to
that. Buy one that fits and sell it on when the kid grows, otherwise
they will spend the first year or more only half in control of the
thing. Find a sales person who knows one end of a bike from the other
and has experience of selling and fitting kids' bikes.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Skunk <[email hidden]> wrote:
: It rained whilst he was out on it on friday. It has painted wheels and
: the brake blocks have taken all the blue paint of the rims, leaving it
: down to the metal underneath.

This is normal. That's why painted rims are useless. On the plus side,
the braking will be better now. Or at least, would be if the brakes worked.
Ditto with the rust really. Cheap bikes will rust like this if exposed to
10 seconds of rain. You can't really call it a flaw as such, it's just
that the bikes are really cheap and nasty.

Now for where you do have a point: the brakes.

As others have said: Sale of Goods Act. If they can't make the brakes
work properly, it's not fit for purpose and they must take it back and
give you a refund.

Then take your money to a real bike shop.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
"Blogs are neither necessary nor sufficient for evil to triumph.
They're just what we call an enabling technology" - Danny O'Brien

in message <[email hidden]>, Skunk

(') said:

Hi, I was hoping people may be able to advise me re. a bike I bought
recently.
Two weeks ago I bought a bmx type bike for my four year old from
halfords.
I have several problems with it.
The back brake has caliper brakes and only one brake block was moving.
I took this back for adjustment last week and they couldn't adjust it
correctly and said there was nothing more they could do.

Well, tough. Brakes are essential safety equipment. If they can't make
the brakes work, the bike is not of merchantable quality, regardless of
the other problems. They must take the bike back and refund your money.

Quoted message said:

It rained whilst he was out on it on friday. It has painted wheels and
the brake blocks have taken all the blue paint of the rims, leaving it
down to the metal underneath.
I had a closer look then and noticed there was patches of paint
missing from the crossbar and a couple of rust sopots on the frame.

It strikes me that this is unacceptable too (although not as clear an
issue as the brakes). Yes, in the fullness of time, any paint finish
will degrade. But a fortnight? That does not seem reasonable.

Don't get the replacement from Halfords - use a better bike shop, even
if you do have to pay more.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Skill without imagination is craftsmanship and gives us
;; many useful objects such as wickerwork picnic baskets.
;; Imagination without skill gives us modern art.
;; Tom Stoppard, Artist Descending A Staircase

Thanks for the advice.
someone asked how much I paid.
It was a £100 bike with 25% off so I paid £75 which I thought was a decent amount and i expected a decent bike.

Skunk <[email hidden]> wrote:

: It was a £100 bike with 25% off so I paid £75 which I thought was a
: decent amount and i expected a decent bike.

If you have the cash, go to a small, independant shop and pay £150. You'll
get something an awful lot better than won't rust straight away and staff
that will know how to set it up.

If you don't have the cash, try and find a decent second hand bike
instead.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
"Blogs are neither necessary nor sufficient for evil to triumph.
They're just what we call an enabling technology" - Danny O'Brien

Skunk vaguely muttered something like ...

Quoted message said:

can anyone advise re my rights, or what i shoul do. i am waiting for a
manager ringing me back and am not that up on bikes to know what to say
to them. any suggestions/help appreciated.

Depending upon the cost of bike and your willingness to 'lose' this value
.....

I'd do as others have already said and try to invoke the Sale of Goods act
etc etc ..

If this doesn't work I'd then wait outside with said bike, with a large
placard, or ten, 'advertising' what's happened, for a day or two.

If nothing has happened by the end of this time, I'd sling it through the
shop window, tape the hole up with the placard and walk home .. 😉

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules !!!
"A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."

Just zis Guy said:

Skunk said:

Two weeks ago I bought a bmx type bike for my four year old from
halfords.

A mistake I venture to suggest you may not make again :-)

Quoted message said:

I have several problems with it.
The back brake has caliper brakes and only one brake block was moving.
I took this back for adjustment last week and they couldn't adjust it
correctly and said there was nothing more they could do.
My lad couldn't reach the brakes so i tried too adjust them using the
phillips head screw so the lever was nearer the handlebars before he
put them on. the front adjusted okay but the back brake just screwed
into fresh air and it made not a jot of difference.
It rained whilst he was out on it on friday. It has painted wheels and
the brake blocks have taken all the blue paint of the rims, leaving it
down to the metal underneath.
I had a closer look then and noticed there was patches of paint missing

Quoted message said:

from the crossbar and a couple of rust sopots on the frame.

*IANAL* but assuming that the rust is genuinely not the result of it
having been left outside for two weeks, I would invoke the Sale of
Goods Act. It is not of merchantable quality, and evidently not fit
for purpose either if the brakes don't work and it doesn't fit (as
evidence the fact that your child can't reach or work the brakes
properly).

You should write a letter to the manager of the branch stating that it
is not fit for purpose and not of merchantable quality and that you
are rejecting the bicycle. Two weeks is just about within the
acceptable timeframe for rejecting it outright, I'd say.Having given
them a chance to fix it and they've failed, you are justified in
asking for your money back. I would give them 14 days to respond
after which you will start proceedings against them through the small
claims procedure.

IANAL. Meanwhile, contact your local Trading Standards Office for
further advice.

R.

Skunk said:

Thanks for the advice.

I'd go with the consensus that rust on frame and paint coming off the
rims is just 'wear and tear' and doesn't entitle you to anything, but
that the failure of teh back brake to actually brake is a 'fitness for
purpose' failure, and should entitle you to full refund or
replacement.

Something that I didn't see anyone mention, however, is that bikes
must have two independant braking mechanisms. Not only is this unfit
for purpose in a qualitative common-sense point of view, since a bike
is legally required to have two working brakes, it's unfit for purpose
in a strictly legal point of view - it would not be legal to ride this
on teh road (OK, maybe you wouldn't want a 4yo to do so regardless of
brakes), and possibly in any public place. I would not be surprised
to find it's actually illegal to sell the bike as they have done so.
If being polite doesn't (or hasn't) get you satisfaction, personally
I'd escalate to muttering about trading standards. After all, it's
illegal to sell a bike without crappy spoke reflectors, so it
certainly ought to be illegal to sell it with deficient brakes.

That is, not only have they sold something that you're entitled to
reject, but they've probably sold something it's illegal to sell -
they ought to be thanking you for bringing it back rather than
proceeding direct to the police.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Ian Smith said:

I'd go with the consensus that rust on frame and paint coming off the
rims is just 'wear and tear' and doesn't entitle you to anything, but
that the failure of teh back brake to actually brake is a 'fitness for
purpose' failure, and should entitle you to full refund or
replacement.

Rust after two weeks? Seems a bit off to me.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Ian Smith <[email hidden]> wrote:
: I'd escalate to muttering about trading standards. After all, it's
: illegal to sell a bike without crappy spoke reflectors, so it
: certainly ought to be illegal to sell it with deficient brakes.

Good point. It is indeed illegal.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
"Blogs are neither necessary nor sufficient for evil to triumph.
They're just what we call an enabling technology" - Danny O'Brien

Just zis Guy, you know? <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Rust after two weeks? Seems a bit off to me.

Have you looked at one of these recently? It doesn't surprise me at all.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
"Blogs are neither necessary nor sufficient for evil to triumph.
They're just what we call an enabling technology" - Danny O'Brien

Skunk said:

Hi, I was hoping people may be able to advise me re. a bike I bought
recently.
Two weeks ago I bought a bmx type bike for my four year old from
halfords.
I have several problems with it.
The back brake has caliper brakes and only one brake block was moving.
I took this back for adjustment last week and they couldn't adjust it
correctly and said there was nothing more they could do.
My lad couldn't reach the brakes so i tried too adjust them using the
phillips head screw so the lever was nearer the handlebars before he
put them on. the front adjusted okay but the back brake just screwed
into fresh air and it made not a jot of difference.
It rained whilst he was out on it on friday. It has painted wheels and
the brake blocks have taken all the blue paint of the rims, leaving it
down to the metal underneath.
I had a closer look then and noticed there was patches of paint
missing from the crossbar and a couple of rust sopots on the frame.
Halfords are passing me from pillar to post and say the removal of
paint is normal and the rust is due to it not being looked after, and
won't give me a replacement as they say they can't sell it second hand
.............due to its poor condition.
can anyone advise re my rights, or what i shoul do. i am waiting for a
manager ringing me back and am not that up on bikes to know what to
say to them. any suggestions/help appreciated.

Get down to a proper bike shop and pick up a BMX there.

The paint will be rubbed off of the rims by the brakes, and that's a good
thing, because the brake blocks will be touching the aluminium rim rather
than relatively slippy paint. The only time painted rims will ever stay
painted is if the bike has disc brakes.

However, the frame shouldn't be rusting and the brakes should work. Working
brakes are pretty bloody vital, and the paintwork on the frame should be
good enough for the bike to not rust for yonks. Go ape, make sure you get
your cash back, and go and buy a proper bike. It'll cost you more than £100,
but it'll be made of half decent bits, and any half decent bike shop will
put it together properly and service it a few weeks after you've bought it.
If I were you, I'd tell them you want your cash back under the Sale of Goods
Act - to gen up on it, give Citizen's Advice a bell.

"Skunk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi, I was hoping people may be able to advise me re. a bike I bought
recently.

<snip description of allegedly shoddy goods>

Quoted message said:

Halfords are passing me from pillar to post and say the removal of
paint is normal and the rust is due to it not being looked after, and
won't give me a replacement as they say they can't sell it second hand
.............due to its poor condition.
can anyone advise re my rights,

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk

--
MatSav

Thanks for all of you for taking time out to answer me.
Halfords have said they'll sort the brakes.
And they have said the same as a few on here about the paint rubbing off being a good thing and natural, but I don't really undersatnd why they sell them painted then, as they now look [censored] after 13 days.
They are arguing the toss over the rust, saying I have left it in the rain, ridden it in the wet. It has been ridden in the rain but I thought bikes were kind of made for that, and I hosed it down before I took it in.
I am waiting for the manager ringing me and by coincidence have someone coming round for tea from the CAB so will seek their advice, but I am now feeling a bit pessimistic, whereas I thought I was on solid ground before posting here.
Cheers anyway.

Skunk said:

Thanks for all of you for taking time out to answer me.
Halfords have said they'll sort the brakes.
And they have said the same as a few on here about the paint rubbing
off being a good thing and natural, but I don't really undersatnd why
they sell them painted then, as they now look [censored] after 13 days.
They are arguing the toss over the rust, saying I have left it in the
rain, ridden it in the wet. It has been ridden in the rain but I
thought bikes were kind of made for that, and I hosed it down before I
took it in.
I am waiting for the manager ringing me and by coincidence have
someone coming round for tea from the CAB so will seek their advice,
but I am now feeling a bit pessimistic, whereas I thought I was on
solid ground before posting here.

If they can't make the brakes work properly, you may be up [censored] creek.
FWIW, I think you can demand replacement / money back rather than repair, or
at least could before the SOGA was fiddled with.

Sorry, but I'm trying to get all the advice I can before they ring.
What's the SOGA - I don't know what this means.
I thought I would have been more up [censored] creek if they could get the brakes to work as it would be fit then, but not if they could not fix the brakes.