Replacing pre-glued patches with "real" patches

Blair P. Houghton said:

I've never bothered keeping preglued-patched tubes if they
failed again, before, but in the past few weeks I've had a
whole bunch of flats in a row from various causes. The old
tubes have piled up 8 deep, and it seems wasteful to throw
them all away when some may only have 30 miles on them.

Consider the value of your time and the additional costs of materials
used in salvaging them. If it still seems like a reaonable endeavor,
then go fot it.

Quoted message said:

What would I need to do to remove the residual glue
from the preglued patches so I can apply the real thing?

A solvent appropriate for the adhesive in question; I'd start with
acetone, try xylene if that didn't work, and then work my way through
the rest of the solvent shelf if necessary.

Quoted message said:

Or is that glue vulcanizing as well, meaning the tubes
are shot?

"Vulcanizing" is not a real characteristic of *any* patch cement.
That term only properly applies to the semi-cured hot patches which
were applied using an incendiary charge in a metal pan that the patch
was supplied with; the heat finished the curing process for the rubber
at the same time that it securely bonded the patch to the tube. The
introduction of the tubeless automotive tire was the develpment that
doomed the hot patch. I still have one of the clamps to apply them
around here somewhere, but I haven't used a hot patch since about
1965.

Current patch cements do not make any chemical changes in the patch or
the tube material. Some people report better results when the same
brand of patch and cement are employed together, but I've never found
enough difference to worry about, if any.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Blair P. Houghton said:

What would I need to do to remove the residual glue
from the preglued patches so I can apply the real thing?

Have you tried rubbing it with sandpaper, as you'd to to remove
the tube's surface before patching anyway? You should be able
to see and feel whether it gives you a clean, soft rubber surfaces.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

Blair P. Houghton said:

I've never bothered keeping preglued-patched tubes if they
failed again, before, but in the past few weeks I've had a
whole bunch of flats in a row from various causes. The old
tubes have piled up 8 deep, and it seems wasteful to throw
them all away when some may only have 30 miles on them.

What would I need to do to remove the residual glue
from the preglued patches so I can apply the real thing?

Or is that glue vulcanizing as well, meaning the tubes
are shot?

--Blair

Lacquer thinner works fine.

Blair P. Houghton said:

The old tubes have piled up 8 deep,...

Is this a bad time to trot out the $ argument for beaded vs. tubular
tires? 😉

r

Blair P. Houghton said:

I've never bothered keeping preglued-patched tubes if they
failed again, before, but in the past few weeks I've had a
whole bunch of flats in a row from various causes. The old
tubes have piled up 8 deep, and it seems wasteful to throw
them all away when some may only have 30 miles on them.

What would I need to do to remove the residual glue
from the preglued patches so I can apply the real thing?

Or is that glue vulcanizing as well, meaning the tubes
are shot?

I've done this, but it was a long time ago. I learned to hate those
pre-glued patches.

The re-patch job is very similar to a good patch job in the first place.
Peel the old patch, sand the tube until it's good and black, then
reapply the new patch in the normal manner.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Everyone confesses that exertion which brings out all the powers of body
and mind is the best thing for us; but most people do all they can to
get rid of it, and as a general rule nobody does much more than
circumstances drive them to do. -Harriet Beecher Stowe, abolitionist and
novelist (1811-1896)

Dan said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

I've never bothered keeping preglued-patched tubes if they
failed again, before, but in the past few weeks I've had a
whole bunch of flats in a row from various causes. The old
tubes have piled up 8 deep, and it seems wasteful to throw
them all away when some may only have 30 miles on them.

What would I need to do to remove the residual glue
from the preglued patches so I can apply the real thing?

Or is that glue vulcanizing as well, meaning the tubes
are shot?

--Blair

Lacquer thinner works fine.

But only outdoors, if you value your health.

Werehatrack said:

A solvent appropriate for the adhesive in question; I'd start with
acetone, try xylene if that didn't work, and then work my way through
the rest of the solvent shelf if necessary.

Got no acetone, but Goof-off is mostly xylene, and I have
plenty of that. And enough tubes to experiment on.

Reading some tire manufacturer website how-to's on patching
shows that cleaning a tube with alcohol before sanding is
recommended. The xylene may or may not have the same
effect.

Quoted message said:

"Vulcanizing" is not a real characteristic of *any* patch cement.

Then why do they even try to call it "vulcanizing fluid"?

Looking for bulk quantities seems to lead directly to
the auto-parts store*, where 8-oz cans are easy to come by.
Or gallon cans, if it gets that bad around here. And to
think I give the street-sweeper a gaudy thumbs-up every
time I pass one...

Quoted message said:

introduction of the tubeless automotive tire was the develpment that
doomed the hot patch. I still have one of the clamps to apply them
around here somewhere, but I haven't used a hot patch since about
1965.

Sounds like something all your better-equipped,
Serotta-selling bike shops would have near the
service counter. Hit the "ooh! is that BETTER than
THIS? Then I need THAT," demographic.

--Blair

* - good example here, with vulcanizing fluid, rubber cleaners,
bead lubes, and other interesting chemicals.

Blair P. Houghton said:

I've never bothered keeping preglued-patched tubes if they
failed again, before, but in the past few weeks I've had a
whole bunch of flats in a row from various causes. The old
tubes have piled up 8 deep, and it seems wasteful to throw
them all away when some may only have 30 miles on them.

What would I need to do to remove the residual glue
from the preglued patches so I can apply the real thing?

Or is that glue vulcanizing as well, meaning the tubes
are shot?

I use 80 grit sandpaper, which does the job pretty well. It takes a
minute or two to get all the glue off, but it does come off.

The original preglued patches were terrible, always failing eventually.
But lately I've had good luck with them. I have one tube with two
patches over a year old, and it doesn't leak one bit.

So I've switched to using preglued patches instead of traditional ones.
Besides convenience, they have the advantage of being truly ready to
use. Traditional ones should really be cured overnight before being put
into service. Not doing so increases their failure rate from zero to
somewhat likely.

I think the secret to a good bond with a preglued patch is to clean the
tube well with sandpaper, and to not "test inflate" it before putting it
into the tire -- which might cause the glue to shear as the tube expands,
before it has a chance to cure.

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

I've never bothered keeping preglued-patched tubes if they
failed again, before, but in the past few weeks I've had a
whole bunch of flats in a row from various causes. The old
tubes have piled up 8 deep, and it seems wasteful to throw
them all away when some may only have 30 miles on them.

What would I need to do to remove the residual glue
from the preglued patches so I can apply the real thing?

Or is that glue vulcanizing as well, meaning the tubes
are shot?

I use 80 grit sandpaper, which does the job pretty well. It takes a
minute or two to get all the glue off, but it does come off.

The original preglued patches were terrible, always failing eventually.
But lately I've had good luck with them. I have one tube with two
patches over a year old, and it doesn't leak one bit.

I haven't used glue patches for several years. I've had no problems at
all with preglued ones. I clean the area with an alcohol prep pad and
the patches stick right good. I don't test inflate them -- that's just
asking for trouble.

-- mike elliott

Blair P. Houghton said:

Werehatrack said:

"Vulcanizing" is not a real characteristic of *any* patch cement.

Then why do they even try to call it "vulcanizing fluid"?

Because earlier in the 20th century, the first attempts at cold
patches were supplanted by the more reliable hot patch, and the
buzzword was that it was better because it was a "Vulcanizing" patch.
This was actually true; it did use the rubber-curing technique whose
developer had tagged with the name "Vulcanizing", which employed heat
to make chemical changes that strengthened and cured the rubber in the
patch, which was supplied only semi-cured so that it could be
heat-cured as it bonded to the tube. As is usually the case, people
learned to recognize *but not understand* the buzzword. Many years
later, when the need to employ a cold patching method for tubeless
tires came along, there was initial resistance because there were
still lots of people who knew that cold patches were no damn good; you
needed vulcanizing patches. The patch manufacturers figured out that
maybe one person in 30 actually knew what the word meant at that
point, and sold their glue as "vulcanizing fluid" to convince the
other 29 that it was good stuff. Today, they could drop the
misleading term, but it persists due to tradition and inertia; few
know what it really means, fewer know why it's there.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

Werehatrack said:

"Vulcanizing" is not a real characteristic of *any* patch cement.

Then why do they even try to call it "vulcanizing fluid"?

Because earlier in the 20th century, the first attempts at cold
patches were supplanted by the more reliable hot patch, and the
buzzword was that it was better because it was a "Vulcanizing" patch.
This was actually true; it did use the rubber-curing technique whose
developer had tagged with the name "Vulcanizing", which employed heat
to make chemical changes that strengthened and cured the rubber in the
patch, which was supplied only semi-cured so that it could be
heat-cured as it bonded to the tube. As is usually the case, people
learned to recognize *but not understand* the buzzword. Many years
later, when the need to employ a cold patching method for tubeless
tires came along, there was initial resistance because there were
still lots of people who knew that cold patches were no damn good; you
needed vulcanizing patches. The patch manufacturers figured out that
maybe one person in 30 actually knew what the word meant at that
point, and sold their glue as "vulcanizing fluid" to convince the
other 29 that it was good stuff. Today, they could drop the
misleading term, but it persists due to tradition and inertia; few
know what it really means, fewer know why it's there.

I kinda figured that would be the answer.

And for the synchronicity portion of the program:

I was at the local Famous Dave's BBQ yesterday, which is
one of those places that decorates itself with old junk
(they actually have four themes a franchisee can buy)
and just happened to look up and there was an old metal
patch-kit dispenser box hanging on the wall, with one side
for hot patches and the other for cold.

I forgot to snag a picture on my phone. I want to snag
the box. You think if I tell them I'm a stockholder?...

--Blair

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

I haven't used glue patches for several years. I've had no problems at
all with preglued ones. I clean the area with an alcohol prep pad and
the patches stick right good. I don't test inflate them -- that's just
asking for trouble.

See, that's a good idea. I have a box of those in the
first-aid drawer. Walgreens et al sell them dirt-cheap
next to the diabetic supplies. Three or four of them
would take no room in my wedge bag.

--Blair

Werehatrack said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

Werehatrack said:

"Vulcanizing" is not a real characteristic of *any* patch cement.

Then why do they even try to call it "vulcanizing fluid"?

Because earlier in the 20th century, the first attempts at cold
patches were supplanted by the more reliable hot patch, and the
buzzword was that it was better because it was a "Vulcanizing" patch.
This was actually true; it did use the rubber-curing technique whose
developer had tagged with the name "Vulcanizing", which employed heat
to make chemical changes that strengthened and cured the rubber in the
patch, which was supplied only semi-cured so that it could be
heat-cured as it bonded to the tube. As is usually the case, people
learned to recognize *but not understand* the buzzword. Many years
later, when the need to employ a cold patching method for tubeless
tires came along, there was initial resistance because there were
still lots of people who knew that cold patches were no damn good; you
needed vulcanizing patches. The patch manufacturers figured out that
maybe one person in 30 actually knew what the word meant at that
point, and sold their glue as "vulcanizing fluid" to convince the
other 29 that it was good stuff. Today, they could drop the
misleading term, but it persists due to tradition and inertia; few
know what it really means, fewer know why it's there.

I still have (somewhere) the clamp they supplied, complete with
instructions, which, as I remember, were to light the edge of the
patch with a match and let it burn, not removing the clamp until cold.
again.