Replacement advice needed

Jo said:

My 18 year old son has for some time been riding a road bike purchased
very cheaply from a mechanic in the LBS. It is quite old (20+ years) but
was a very expensive hand built bike. The reason it was sold cheaply is
because the man (George) wanted to see it used and loved, and he knew
Samuel would do that. Today disaster struck - the frame has cracked -
'Gladys' is dead.
Samuel has become used to a high quality bike, and he needs it as he
does around 200 miles per week. We have no money, but will have to find
some to replace it. His preference is for a road bike, he would not
consider anything else in fact. He would prefer a double chainring to a
triple, but says he could live with a triple if he has to. He is about
6'4" or a bit more, so would need a 24" frame. He has his eye on a
Bianchi, I have my eye on the bank balance, or lack of it.
What does the team think? Suggestions for whole bikes, frames and best
suppliers all useful.
Jo

what's your budget?

MartinM said:

what's your budget?

Difficult to say exactly. I know he wants and needs quality. His bus
fares to college would cost a fortune if he doesn't have a bike. He
would not consider life worth living without a bike. But we have no
money, so it's catch 22. For the moment, suppose we could find up to
£500 if there is nothing suitable cheaper.
Jo

Jo said:

MartinM said:

what's your budget?

Difficult to say exactly. I know he wants and needs quality. His bus
fares to college would cost a fortune if he doesn't have a bike. He
would not consider life worth living without a bike. But we have no
money, so it's catch 22. For the moment, suppose we could find up to
£500 if there is nothing suitable cheaper.
Jo

up to £500 will get you an alloy frame double chainset with Sora or
equivalent gears; I have looked vaguely into this for my son (until
yesterday that is) the cheapest of all is the Saracen tour (from
£240), and Specialized Allez or Trek 1000 about the dearest (nearer
500); although I believe they all use simlar frames and other
components. I will probably be shot down for saying this but H****ds
have some good bargains at the mo.

Quoted message said:

But we have no money, [...] suppose we could find up to £500 if there is

nothing suitable cheaper.

Rich!

For that kind of money consider going second hand from a bikeshop (you'll
need to ring around lots) and you'll find something very nice.

The advantage of a bikeshop over the small-ads is that the bikeshop should
give it a full service, replacing worn out bits for free (well, mine did
anyway).

You get much more for your money nowadays so that £500 will likely get
something better than his current bike, at least in terms of features and
weight.

Ebay is good, but it's buyer beware and the prices tend to be quite high
for second hand (tip: try looking for stuff that is pickup only - that's
where the bargains are).

mark.

Jo said:

My 18 year old son has for some time been riding a road bike purchased
very cheaply from a mechanic in the LBS. It is quite old (20+ years)
but was a very expensive hand built bike. The reason it was sold
cheaply is because the man (George) wanted to see it used and loved,
and he knew Samuel would do that. Today disaster struck - the frame
has cracked - 'Gladys' is dead.

Consult somewhere which does frame repairs. There are several, though you
may have to dismantle the entire bike and arrange to ship it to ther
repairer (most repairers have a courier collect/return service for this).
If the bike and its components are in decent condition, this might be the
cheapest option.

If the bike were handbuilt, chances are that its a steel frame, and steel
frames can be repaired. And repaired so well that you wouldn't be aware
there was a fault.

With the necessary repainting, and no idea of the damage to the frame, I'd
make a guess at change from £150.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Jo said:

Difficult to say exactly. I know he wants and needs quality. His bus
fares to college would cost a fortune if he doesn't have a bike. He
would not consider life worth living without a bike. But we have no
money, so it's catch 22. For the moment, suppose we could find up to
£500 if there is nothing suitable cheaper.
Jo

If, as you say, it's a high quality hand built frame it may well be
worth repairing. It will be steel and a decent frame builder will be
able to replace a tube or repair a cracked joint and then refinish the
frame so that it looks effectively brand new. This won't be cheap but
if the frame is loved and well used then it's worth considering. Do
you have a traditional frame builder anywhere near by? Take it in and
they'll give you an opinion and a price.

If that's a non starter, how about another second hand frame? I have a
standard search set up on ebay for Mercian, Roberts etc frames and
they come up all the time. Find a decent frame and transfer all the
components across from existing bike?

"Bob"
--

Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

"Nigel Cliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jo said:

My 18 year old son has for some time been riding a road bike purchased
very cheaply from a mechanic in the LBS. It is quite old (20+ years)
but was a very expensive hand built bike. The reason it was sold
cheaply is because the man (George) wanted to see it used and loved,
and he knew Samuel would do that. Today disaster struck - the frame
has cracked - 'Gladys' is dead.

Consult somewhere which does frame repairs. There are several, though you
may have to dismantle the entire bike and arrange to ship it to ther
repairer (most repairers have a courier collect/return service for this).
If the bike and its components are in decent condition, this might be the
cheapest option.

If the bike were handbuilt, chances are that its a steel frame, and steel
frames can be repaired. And repaired so well that you wouldn't be aware
there was a fault.

With the necessary repainting, and no idea of the damage to the frame, I'd
make a guess at change from £150.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

How a bout the Edinburgh cycle co-op they do a fairly decent revolution bike
or you could stretch to a giant OCR2 for £500

cheers
Jon_H

"Jo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MartinM said:

what's your budget?

Difficult to say exactly. I know he wants and needs quality. His bus fares
to college would cost a fortune if he doesn't have a bike. He would not
consider life worth living without a bike. But we have no money, so it's
catch 22. For the moment, suppose we could find up to £500 if there is
nothing suitable cheaper.
Jo

You should be able to get a reasonable entry level road bike for that, or if
going second hand, an older but higher spec model.

Get some ideas from

<http://www.allterraincycles.co.uk/p.php?products=Bikes&header=Road&make=ALL>
<http://www.bikeplus.co.uk/>
<http://www.buyabikedirect.co.uk/products.php?action=prodlist&cat=25&mfr=>

Cheers, helen s

wafflycat said:

"Jo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MartinM said:

what's your budget?

Difficult to say exactly. I know he wants and needs quality. His bus fares
to college would cost a fortune if he doesn't have a bike. He would not
consider life worth living without a bike. But we have no money, so it's
catch 22. For the moment, suppose we could find up to £500 if there is
nothing suitable cheaper.
Jo

You should be able to get a reasonable entry level road bike for that, orif
going second hand, an older but higher spec model.

How about a 'new' frame and transferring the parts? That can be a bit
pricey if you get the shop to do it, but doing it yourself would save a
bundle of cash. A good second hand frame shouldn't be too expensive
and even a new one is well within budget (checks e.g. wiggle) Tifosi
CK7 is 200 quid and has all the braze ons for mudguards, rack etc.
http://tinyurl.com/dq4ua is
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacturer=Tifosi&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=Frames%20-%20Road&ProdID=5360012893&UberCat=0

And 20 quid of free bits which would almost cover new headset, cables
and seat pin if needed.

Similar bargains abound elsewhere I am sure.

...d

in message <[email hidden]>, Jo

(') said:

My 18 year old son has for some time been riding a road bike purchased
very cheaply from a mechanic in the LBS. It is quite old (20+ years)
but was a very expensive hand built bike. The reason it was sold
cheaply is because the man (George) wanted to see it used and loved,
and he knew Samuel would do that. Today disaster struck - the frame has
cracked - 'Gladys' is dead.

A bike of this age is never dead; steel frames can almost always be
repaired, and brazed steel frames are easiest to repair. The repair
would be quite expensive - several hundred pounds - but if this is a
favourite bike there are several shops round the country which could do
an excellent job.

Quoted message said:

Samuel has become used to a high quality bike, and he needs it as he
does around 200 miles per week. We have no money, but will have to find
some to replace it. His preference is for a road bike, he would not
consider anything else in fact. He would prefer a double chainring to a
triple, but says he could live with a triple if he has to. He is about
6'4" or a bit more, so would need a 24" frame. He has his eye on a
Bianchi, I have my eye on the bank balance, or lack of it.
What does the team think? Suggestions for whole bikes, frames and best
suppliers all useful.

In this country, for a racing bike, Dolan. Despite the name 'Italian
Solutions' the factory is in Liverpool, and many of the frames are made
there. Prices start at £275 for a frame but go up steeply from there.
Ribble Cycles sell a complete bike based on a Dolan frame for £555
(although it has to be said that Ribble seem not to have a particularly
good reputation on this group - don't know personally, never dealt with
them).

<URL:http://www.bikes-dolan.uk.com/>
<URL:http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/details.asp?D=X&Cat=RIBBLE&Section=XRIB&GenCode=RIBBXRIB0500>

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Friends don't send friends HTML formatted emails.

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

wafflycat said:

You should be able to get a reasonable entry level road bike for that,
or if going second hand, an older but higher spec model.

How about a 'new' frame and transferring the parts? That can be a bit
pricey if you get the shop to do it, but doing it yourself would save a
bundle of cash.

No. Nothing will fit. The dropout spacing will be 130mm on the new vs
120mm on the old. So you'll need a new back wheel which will be a
cassette type so you'll need a new cassette which won't work with a
five/six speed rear mech so you'll need a new rear mech which probably
won't work with the cable pull ratio of the existing downtube shifters
so you'll need new shifters... by which time you've spent a lot of
money.

Quoted message said:

A good second hand frame shouldn't be too expensive

No. A second hand one of similar vintage would be a sensible solution.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; First they came for the asylum seekers,
;; and I did not speak out because I was not an asylum seeker.
;; Then they came for the gypsies,
;; and I did not speak out because I was not a gypsy...
;; Pastor Martin Niemöller, translated by Michael Howard.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

wafflycat said:

You should be able to get a reasonable entry level road bike for that,
or if going second hand, an older but higher spec model.

How about a 'new' frame and transferring the parts? That can be a bit
pricey if you get the shop to do it, but doing it yourself would save a
bundle of cash.

No. Nothing will fit. The dropout spacing will be 130mm on the new vs
120mm on the old.

Depends on age. It could be 126mm

Quoted message said:

So you'll need a new back wheel which will be a
cassette type so you'll need a new cassette which won't work with a
five/six speed rear mech

Yes it will in friction mode. And if you are lucky it will work in SIS
mode too.

Quoted message said:

so you'll need a new rear mech which probably
won't work with the cable pull ratio of the existing downtube shifters

Yes it will if they are friction shifters.

Quoted message said:

so you'll need new shifters... by which time you've spent a lot of
money.

Quoted message said:

A good second hand frame shouldn't be too expensive

No. A second hand one of similar vintage would be a sensible solution.

Indeed.

...d

Jo said:

My 18 year old son has for some time been riding a road bike purchased
very cheaply from a mechanic in the LBS. It is quite old (20+ years) but
was a very expensive hand built bike. The reason it was sold cheaply is
because the man (George) wanted to see it used and loved, and he knew
Samuel would do that. Today disaster struck - the frame has cracked -
'Gladys' is dead.
Samuel has become used to a high quality bike, and he needs it as he
does around 200 miles per week. We have no money, but will have to find
some to replace it.

Can he get a job and fund it himself?

When I were a lad (mid-80s), my parents bought me a cheapo sports bike
which I gradually converted into a nice if somewhat heavy touring bike:
I rode thousands of miles on it, including two 200km Audaxes whilst aged 14.

When I wanted a light racing bike for time trialling, I was told I'd
have to pay for it myself, so I got a paper round and saved up for it.
It taught me a lot about the value of money and stuff, and the
importance of work. I kept that bike for 14 years, and then treated
myself to a new Roberts to replace it.

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/

In article <[email hidden]>,

David Martin () said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, David

[derailleur stuff]

My grate frend gNick had, at one point, an eight-speed Shimano cluster,
Sachs twist-grip shifter and an indescribably ancient Sun Tour
derailleur - IIRC a VX-GT from the early Bronze age. It indexed.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Although the hippopotamus hath no sting in its tail, the wise man would
rather be seated upon the back of a bee.

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:59:04 +0000, Simon Brooke wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

No. A second hand one of similar vintage would be a sensible solution.

I third that. Use the current one for spares. There are loads of '90s
vintage hand built bikes around that are worth in the region of UKP100, as
I found out when selling mine. In the end I gave them to a good home
instead.

Steve

Mark Tranchant said:

Jo said:

My 18 year old son has for some time been riding a road bike purchased
very cheaply from a mechanic in the LBS. It is quite old (20+ years)
but was a very expensive hand built bike. The reason it was sold
cheaply is because the man (George) wanted to see it used and loved,
and he knew Samuel would do that. Today disaster struck - the frame
has cracked - 'Gladys' is dead.
Samuel has become used to a high quality bike, and he needs it as
he does around 200 miles per week. We have no money, but will have to
find some to replace it.

Can he get a job and fund it himself?

When I were a lad (mid-80s), my parents bought me a cheapo sports bike
which I gradually converted into a nice if somewhat heavy touring bike:
I rode thousands of miles on it, including two 200km Audaxes whilst aged
14.

When I wanted a light racing bike for time trialling, I was told I'd
have to pay for it myself, so I got a paper round and saved up for it.
It taught me a lot about the value of money and stuff, and the
importance of work. I kept that bike for 14 years, and then treated
myself to a new Roberts to replace it.

Thanks for all the advice. We have considered it all carefully, and
looked into all available options.
Replacing the frame was my original preference, but as I have just
discovered his cogs are all worn out it could end up more expensive than
a whole new bike.
Repairing the frame would, after respraying etc cost around £200, then
he would need a whole new drive chain, and possibly a seat post - you
can see the cost mounting up.
LBS offered to strip down a Dawes frame and rebuild it with Samuel's
own parts, but the frame available is a hybrid - not at all what he wants.
We have checked out Cycle Plus classified, but all the bikes he likes
are too small for him - he is about 6'4".
It looks like it will be a January sale Trek he has found, reduced from
around £700 to around £500, or a Bianchi on ebay.
Regarding him paying himself, yes I understand and agree with all the
reasons why he should, but he needs it now, and he has no money. His
college is about 12 miles away and if he were to use the bus it would
cost us a fortune, not to mention the fact that he would be impossible
to live with without a bike. Because of the distance he travels to
college he is not around at the right times for paper rounds. He has
tried a Saturday supermarket job, but couldn't cope with the indoor
life. (His ambition is to be a farmer) He earns pocket money by doing
gardening and odd jobs for people, but the gardening is a bit quiet at
this time of year. We are probably going to say he has to pay back £200.
This will be with no time limit, and the opportunity to earn some of it
by doing DIY jobs at home. He is currently emptying his bedroom of
belongings so that I can put them on ebay tomorrow when it is 5 pence
listing day.
'Gladys' is apparently going to live out her retirement hanging on his
bedroom wall!
Jo

Dave Larrington wrote:

IIRC Simplex or somesuch patented indexing in the 20s (ducks)

--

Quoted message said:

Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Although the hippopotamus hath no sting in its tail, the wise man would
rather be seated upon the back of a bee.

"Jo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It looks like it will be a January sale Trek he has found, reduced from
around £700 to around £500, or a Bianchi on ebay.

I hope he gets something suitable. FWIW, I've got a couple of Bianchis. One
is the entry-level race bike, a ML3 and it's a good bike. It doesn't weigh a
tonne and with carbon front forks it gives a very smooth ride on Norfolk's
bumpy roads.

Quoted message said:

Regarding him paying himself, yes I understand and agree with all the
reasons why he should, but he needs it now, and he has no money. His
college is about 12 miles away and if he were to use the bus it would cost
us a fortune, not to mention the fact that he would be impossible to live
with without a bike. Because of the distance he travels to college he is
not around at the right times for paper rounds.

Sounds very like my son who does a 13-mile each way commute to college by
bike. Basically he can't get there by bus, as there isn't one from where we
live to the town where the college is.

Quoted message said:

He has tried a Saturday supermarket job, but couldn't cope with the indoor
life. (His ambition is to be a farmer) He earns pocket money by doing
gardening and odd jobs for people, but the gardening is a bit quiet at this
time of year. We are probably going to say he has to pay back £200. This
will be with no time limit, and the opportunity to earn some of it by doing
DIY jobs at home. He is currently emptying his bedroom of belongings so
that I can put them on ebay tomorrow when it is 5 pence listing day.

Sounds very sensible approach as it gives him a sense of he's paid for it so
he'll look after it. Be glad he's not seriously into the sport... my son is
and it can get horrendously expensive. I shall be thinking up suitable
employment in tasks around the home that my offspring will be doing as his
dad has just forked out £1600 we can ill-afford on new wheels for his
Cervelo Soloist, which is being set up as a time trial bike. I expect my son
to be doing 19-minute 10 mile TTs... or else! ;-)

Quoted message said:

'Gladys' is apparently going to live out her retirement hanging on his
bedroom wall!
Jo

Awww 🙂

Cheers, helen s

In article <[email hidden]>,

MartinM () said:

Dave Larrington wrote:

I think you'll find I wrote a bit more than that. I'm no Harry Marsh,
me :-)

Quoted message said:

IIRC Simplex or somesuch patented indexing in the 20s (ducks)

Ah, but did it work in conjunction with Benelux and Huret bits?

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Putting just the right amount of gin in your goldfish bowl makes the
fishies' eyes bulge and causes them to swim in a very amusing manner.