Replace Cup and Cone BB?

JJ said:

Can I replace the cup and cone bottom bracket with a cartridge on an older
(91-93?) Trek 520? Or should I just leave it alone?

Why do you want to replace it?

If it's shot, you might be able to replace it with a reasonably priced
cartridge bb (Shimano). Any advice would hinge on that knowledge, or
the exact spindle dimensions of your current bottom bracket. It is
probably a 122.5 or 127mm for a Shimano Deore M60 (?) 110/74mm bcd
triple crank.

Sheldon Brown knows the answer in several languages.

Robin Hubert

JJ said:

Can I replace the cup and cone bottom bracket with a cartridge on an older
(91-93?) Trek 520? Or should I just leave it alone?

Yes. If it's worn out, this is the usual method of repair. If it's
not worn out, of course, there's nothing to fix.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
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JJ said:

Can I replace the cup and cone bottom bracket with a cartridge on an

older

Quoted message said:

(91-93?) Trek 520? Or should I just leave it alone?

Yes, I recently did the same (on a considerably older bike).

But to echo previous posters, don't bother unless the old B really does
need replacing. Changing a BB is a job that requires much physical
exertion and a very large spanner with a very long handle. And knuckle
protection.

d.

JJ said:

Can I replace the cup and cone bottom bracket with a cartridge on an

older

Quoted message said:

(91-93?) Trek 520? Or should I just leave it alone?

You should probably leave it alone if it's not worn out. Cartridge BB's
are better sealed, but cup&cone are easier/possible to overhaul. I've
replaced junky c&c BB's, I leave the good ones alone. If you do
replace, getting the fixed cup off can be a bit of a chore. Sheldon
Brown has an excellent article with a DIY tool approach.

JJ said:

Can I replace the cup and cone bottom bracket with a cartridge on an

older

Quoted message said:

(91-93?) Trek 520? Or should I just leave it alone?

Replace it. I finally got rid of the cup and cone Tange bottom bracket
on my 1991 Trek 520. 110/74 Deore DX crankset. I hated the locking
ring and pin spanner adjustment method. I ended up using a Shimano UN
bottom bracket from nashbar. $18. 115mm length to get the chainline
where I wanted it. I think the original spindle length was about
126mm. The shorter length required taking a file to the back side of
the front derailleur to allow it to go inward enough to shift onto the
inner chainring.

JJ said:

Can I replace the cup and cone bottom bracket with a cartridge on an older
(91-93?) Trek 520? Or should I just leave it alone?

The answers are, yes and yes. Sometime before my girfriend acquired
her quite old 520 (used) someone installed a cartridge BB. Is there
some pressing reason to want to change it?

An anecdote: Many years ago I replaced the cup and cone BB on my late
'80s Trek 1400 with a UN-53 cartridge unit. I liked the idea of a
cartridge BB so much I decided to replace the Dura Ace cup and cone
unit in my Vitus 992 with an appropriate cartridge, but only when the
cup and cone wore out. I decided to ride it until I heard a "crunch,
crunch, crunch". Five years later I though it was time for a complete
refurb on that bike. I pulled the BB out and it still looked great, so
when I put the bike back together I put the old BB back in, only I
used new balls, eliminated the cages, and added a ball to each side.

About three weeks ago I pulled that bike apart again and the races
still look like new. I'm planning on reassembling it with the old BB
still in place, but again with new balls.

So the bike is now entering its fourteenth season with the original BB
still going strong. I've long since lost track of the mileage on that
bike but it has to be in excess of 50,000.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

davek said:

JJ said:

Can I replace the cup and cone bottom bracket with a cartridge on an older Trek 5230?

Sure, but you could also replace the frameset too.

You can also eat at McDonalds off of paper plates, but I prefer china
and silverware, and this is what a cup-and-cone bottom bracket is - a
more durable - lower friction - but slightly higher maintenance
version of a bottom bracket, compared to a cartridge bottom bracket.

Note that a cup-and-cone bottom bracket is also a less profitable
bottom bracket from a monopolist bike conglomerate's perspective,
since each piece is individually maintainable.

Frankly, I don't think that anyone believes that a cartridge bottom
bracket is actually superior to a cup-and-cone bottom bracket.
Friction is higher and the cartridge makes it heavier, period. The
only advantage of a cartridge bottom bracket is that any nitwhit can
install it without screwing up the bearings. In this case, the target
nitwhit is your local bikeshop wrench. But once a cartridge gets
really wet, most likely it will be toast.

The two most premium bottom brackets on the market - phil wood and
Royce U.K. - are the equivalent of cup-and-cone bottom brackets. The
royce bottom bracket is a completely traditional bottom bracket with
lockrings on both sides, for full chainline adjustability. The phil
wood bottom bracket is not a cartridge bottom bracket - it's a
sealed-bearing bottom bracket, built using the same principles as a
cup-and-cone bottom bracket.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Donald Gillies said:

Frankly, I don't think that anyone believes that a cartridge bottom
bracket is actually superior to a cup-and-cone bottom bracket.
Friction is higher and the cartridge makes it heavier, period. The
only advantage of a cartridge bottom bracket is that any nitwhit can
install it without screwing up the bearings. In this case, the target
nitwhit is your local bikeshop wrench. But once a cartridge gets
really wet, most likely it will be toast.

The bearings are also further apart in a cup-and cone for better axle
support; something Shimano had to "solve" for cartridge BBs by putting
them outside the shell.

However, every cup and cone BB I've ever had became waterlogged and died
and it seemed impossible to seal them properly.

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:425aacf1.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

Donald Gillies said:

Frankly, I don't think that anyone believes that a cartridge bottom
bracket is actually superior to a cup-and-cone bottom bracket.
Friction is higher and the cartridge makes it heavier, period. The
only advantage of a cartridge bottom bracket is that any nitwhit can
install it without screwing up the bearings. In this case, the target
nitwhit is your local bikeshop wrench. But once a cartridge gets
really wet, most likely it will be toast.

The bearings are also further apart in a cup-and cone for better axle
support; something Shimano had to "solve" for cartridge BBs by putting
them outside the shell.

However, every cup and cone BB I've ever had became waterlogged and died
and it seemed impossible to seal them properly.

This is interesting, what died?
I just cleaned, repacked, and adjusted my Campagnolo ball bearing BB last
Saturday, as I do every April. I'm just using regular Valvoline
wheelbearing grease $3.00 a pound. I've had the BB for over 10 years,
replacing the balls every three years. The key is getting the adjustment
right.
-tom

Zog The Undeniable said:

The bearings are also further apart in a cup-and cone for better axle
support;

There is plenty of axle support in a cartridge bottom bracket.

Quoted message said:

something Shimano had to "solve" for cartridge BBs by putting
them outside the shell.

I believe that the reason to move the bearings outside the shell was to
allow a larger-diameter (and then hollow aluminum rather than nearly solid
steel) axle.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
_`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
(_)/ (_) |

Quoted message said:

Frankly, I don't think that anyone believes that a cartridge bottom
bracket is actually superior to a cup-and-cone bottom bracket.
Friction is higher and the cartridge makes it heavier, period. The
only advantage of a cartridge bottom bracket is that any nitwhit can
install it without screwing up the bearings. In this case, the target
nitwhit is your local bikeshop wrench. But once a cartridge gets
really wet, most likely it will be toast.

I've had excellent results with Shimano's UN cartridge bottom brackets, one
on a MTB and one on my rain commuter. The test I usually perform to check
bearing life is to spin the cranks with the chain off. If the bearings are
worn, there will be an audible rumble throughout the bike. My UN53 BB
doesn't exhibit this kind of noise at all, and it receives the most water
and miles. My ISIS-equipped MTB started rumbling around 200 miles after
installed new.

When you say they die when they get wet, are you referring to Octalink/ISIS
bottom brackets specifically, or have you had bad results with Shimano
sq-tpr BBs?
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

David L. Johnson said:

I believe that the reason to move the bearings outside the shell was

to

Quoted message said:

allow a larger-diameter (and then hollow aluminum rather than nearly

solid

Quoted message said:

steel) axle.

Shimano's using a hollow aluminum crank axle? Even if it's larger in
diameter, that sounds sketchy to me.

Jeff

On 11 Apr 2005 09:57:18 -0700, [email hidden] (Donald Gillies)

Quoted message said:

... nitwhit can.....
the target nitwhit is your local bikeshop wrench.

Sp "nitwit", you nitwit!

Guy A
Ripley, TN

"Guy F. Anderson Sr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 11 Apr 2005 09:57:18 -0700, [email hidden] (Donald Gillies)

Quoted message said:

... nitwhit can.....
the target nitwhit is your local bikeshop wrench.

Sp "nitwit", you nitwit!

Guy A
Ripley, TN

You guys are funny!
-tom

Thanks for all the replies. I bought this 520 for a Euro tour next month and
was lucky enough to find one relatively cheap and all original (except for
the crankset and cassette). Since the bike has an estimated mileage of less
than 100 (incredible as it's a '91 or '92 model), I'll leave the cup and
cone in there and have it regreased and adjusted.

"JJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Xtf6e.9688$9i7.2829@trnddc04...

Quoted message said:

Can I replace the cup and cone bottom bracket with a cartridge on an older
(91-93?) Trek 520? Or should I just leave it alone?

In article <Xtf6e.9688$9i7.2829@trnddc04>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Can I replace the cup and cone bottom bracket with a cartridge on an older
(91-93?) Trek 520? Or should I just leave it alone?

Yes you can replace it with a cartridge BB. If your current BB's cups and
spindle are not damaged, you can continue to use them. just clean them up and
add some fresh lube.
--------------
Alex