Remove Star Nut from HS?

Paul Kopit said:

How do you remove a star nut that has been installed?

I purchased a used, carbon fiber fork with a CF steertube. A star nut
is installed and I'd prefer to use a compressor type nut. I don't want
to hammer the existing nut down. Cannondale supplys a standard,
metal starnut with their forks. I'm told that they are somewhat
unique in that regard.

I'll be cutting the steer tube and the top of the starnut will be
about 10 mm from the top of the steerer.

Your fork is NOT SAFE to ride. If you look at the tech info from any
company that sells CF steerers on their forks they state in plain
english that a compression nut at the top is NECESSARY, not optional.
If you wish to remove that star nut your best bet is to drill out the
center, but your fork is already compromised. You will find this info
at the manfacturers website, if your fork didn't come with any paper.
Take this very seriously, you CAN NOT always see carbon fiber damage
with the naked eye. Damage to the matrix of the material is very
serious, a cracked cf steerer will eventually fail in a possible
catastrophic nature. Your life is in your hands.

email hidden said:

Your fork is NOT SAFE to ride. If you look at the tech info from any
company that sells CF steerers on their forks they state in plain
english that a compression nut at the top is NECESSARY, not optional.
If you wish to remove that star nut your best bet is to drill out the
center, but your fork is already compromised. You will find this info
at the manfacturers website, if your fork didn't come with any paper.
Take this very seriously, you CAN NOT always see carbon fiber damage
with the naked eye. Damage to the matrix of the material is very
serious, a cracked cf steerer will eventually fail in a possible
catastrophic nature. Your life is in your hands.

I would tend to agree with you but Cannondale supplys their bicycles
with CF steer tubes with star nut. My first experience was with a
2005 Optimo. I phoned Cannnondale Techa and got an official OK. My
most recent example is a 2007 CAAD9 that the factory package comes
with the metal starnut.

Paul Kopit said:

On 3 Feb 2007 10:26:20 -0800, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Your fork is NOT SAFE to ride. If you look at the tech info from any
company that sells CF steerers on their forks they state in plain
english that a compression nut at the top is NECESSARY, not optional.
If you wish to remove that star nut your best bet is to drill out the
center, but your fork is already compromised. You will find this info
at the manfacturers website, if your fork didn't come with any paper.
Take this very seriously, you CAN NOT always see carbon fiber damage
with the naked eye. Damage to the matrix of the material is very
serious, a cracked cf steerer will eventually fail in a possible
catastrophic nature. Your life is in your hands.

I would tend to agree with you but Cannondale supplys their bicycles
with CF steer tubes with star nut. My first experience was with a
2005 Optimo. I phoned Cannnondale Techa and got an official OK. My
most recent example is a 2007 CAAD9 that the factory package comes
with the metal starnut.

Of all the carbon fork makers out there, ALL say to not use a SFN, yet
Cannondale says it's OK. I would believe the gents at Reynolds, Alfa
Q, Easton, Profile,ETC way before I would 'trust' Cannondale...but
hey, it's your teeth..

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Of all the carbon fork makers out there, ALL say to not use a SFN, yet
Cannondale says it's OK. I would believe the gents at Reynolds, Alfa
Q, Easton, Profile,ETC way before I would 'trust' Cannondale...but
hey, it's your teeth..

Again, all the Cannondale frames come with a starnut and phoning their
tech support oks the install. The wall thickness on this year's CAAD9
is thicker than the fork of 2007 but there was a starnut for both.

There's a bunch of Cannondale road bicycle out there and I haven't
heard of forks self destructing. With the starnut properly installed,
the topcap has a sleeve that goes down into the stem. Unlike a
compressor "star" where the compressor is inside the stem. I'm not
justifying what Cannondale has done but it seems to work.

The original topic is how to remove the starnut. It will be at the
top of the steerer when I cut the steerer down but its too low for me
to cut below it.

Paul Kopit said:

On 4 Feb 2007 05:47:58 -0800, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"

Quoted message said:

Of all the carbon fork makers out there, ALL say to not use a SFN, yet
Cannondale says it's OK. I would believe the gents at Reynolds, Alfa
Q, Easton, Profile,ETC way before I would 'trust' Cannondale...but
hey, it's your teeth..

Again, all the Cannondale frames come with a starnut and phoning their
tech support oks the install. The wall thickness on this year's CAAD9
is thicker than the fork of 2007 but there was a starnut for both.

There's a bunch of Cannondale road bicycle out there and I haven't
heard of forks self destructing. With the starnut properly installed,
the topcap has a sleeve that goes down into the stem. Unlike a
compressor "star" where the compressor is inside the stem. I'm not
justifying what Cannondale has done but it seems to work.

The original topic is how to remove the starnut. It will be at the
top of the steerer when I cut the steerer down but its too low for me
to cut below it.

On bikes I've inspected the star nut is well clear of the base of the
stem, the point on the steerer tube I've seen break most often, so it
may be that the star nut isn't contributing to failures.

Also, I think Cannondale must have tested the star nut and found it
okay if they're willing to ship bikes with them.

Paul, why not just slide the star nut further down and use it in your
new set up?

Cannondale had to have tested it, but that doesn't mean they did
enough tests, or that the amount of money that they saved on the
compression nut didn't far out way the amount of money spent on some
out of court settlements. I wouldn't ride it. I ride bmx, so I ride
stupid little bike off big jumps. I'm what most normal people call
"insane" and I still wouldn't ride it. I've seen everything fail. I
already lost my front teeth, but don't worry, two front teeth are only
twice as expensive a new fork that hasn't had a star nut HAMMERED down
into it. However I believe that in my original post my exact words
were "If you wish to remove that star nut your best bet is to drill
out the center..." If you are not comfortable to do that then take it
to a professional, we bike mechanics do exist for a reason. I have
already flat out refused to work on a bike with a star-nut pounded
into a CF steerer. I had no idea Cracknfail, um I mean Cannondale,
told people to do this. Once again I'm glad I don't sell them.

Paul Kopit wrote:
.....

Quoted message said:

The original topic is how to remove the starnut. It will be at the
top of the steerer when I cut the steerer down but its too low for me
to cut below it.

......Unless you're going to sell the forks to a short person and get new
forks for yourself.

~PB

Quoted message said:

Cannondale had to have tested it, but that doesn't mean they did
enough tests, or that the amount of money that they saved on the
compression nut didn't far out way the amount of money spent on some
out of court settlements. I wouldn't ride it. I ride bmx, so I ride
stupid little bike off big jumps. I'm what most normal people call
"insane" and I still wouldn't ride it. I've seen everything fail. I
already lost my front teeth, but don't worry, two front teeth are only
twice as expensive a new fork that hasn't had a star nut HAMMERED down
into it. However I believe that in my original post my exact words
were "If you wish to remove that star nut your best bet is to drill
out the center..." If you are not comfortable to do that then take it
to a professional, we bike mechanics do exist for a reason. I have
already flat out refused to work on a bike with a star-nut pounded
into a CF steerer. I had no idea Cracknfail, um I mean Cannondale,
told people to do this. Once again I'm glad I don't sell them.

I would never buy a second hand CF fork with a CF steerer or a aluminium
steerer.
Anyway, leave the star fangled nut where it is and place the spacers on
top of the stem. Why mess around with the nut again.
When you try drill out the centre the chance is there that at a certain
point the nut starts rotating with the drill, leaving a nice groove...

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)

On Feb 4, 11:12 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Cannondale had to have tested it, but that doesn't mean they did
enough tests,

What tests have you done? The star nut's not close to the stem/headset
gap. It looks to me like it's probably fine where it is, and the fact
that Cannondale is willing to use them en mass makes me think it might
be okay.

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't ride it.

That's okay, it's not your to ride.

Quoted message said:

I ride bmx, so I ride
stupid little bike off big jumps. I'm what most normal people call
"insane" and I still wouldn't ride it. I've seen everything fail.

How can you stand to take such a risk as riding any bike then?

Quoted message said:

I
already lost my front teeth, but don't worry, two front teeth are only
twice as expensive a new fork that hasn't had a star nut HAMMERED down
into it.

No need to shout. I think hammering is the way they're usually
installed.

Quoted message said:

However I believe that in my original post my exact words
were "If you wish to remove that star nut your best bet is to drill
out the center..."

It seems likely to me that at some point the remains of the star nut
might spin with the drill and gouge the carbon walls, as Lou
mentioned. Then I'd worry about the steerer tube's strength!

Quoted message said:

If you are not comfortable to do that then take it
to a professional, we bike mechanics do exist for a reason.

As a professional, will you replace the fork at your cost if drilling
out the star nut damages the carbon? How would you tell if it did?
Might be a nice way to get a free fork...

Quoted message said:

I have
already flat out refused to work on a bike with a star-nut pounded
into a CF steerer.

That's your perogative.

Quoted message said:

I had no idea Cracknfail, um I mean Cannondale,
told people to do this. Once again I'm glad I don't sell them.

Whatever, dude.

I must apologize. I'm sorry, I did not intend to be snotty or
flippant, it is just my nature. The normal way to get a SFN out of a
steerer is to use a park tool #TNS-1 and just rip it out. You notice
that I did not suggest this at all. Most SFN are stamped together.
They fall apart as soon as the top layer is fractured, and these
things are really not very strong. The amount of preload on a headset
bearing is nothing if you think about it. Any real amount of force
and a SFN just breaks. But hey I'm just a professional mechanic, what
do I know. I personally have met a talked extensively with the head
tech at Kestrel on this very subject (carbon steerers, SFNs, and
failures) so to answer your question I have done no tests, at all.
However I have been educated by the people who do, and yes I have seen
failures, not in person but through educational photos, videos, and
the end result of a lot of head on collisions. As for my road bike,
lugged chrome 1" BSC Italian Columbus. Goes great on a first
generation Gunnar. That way I don't have to worry about my steel
delaminating.

email hidden said:

Paul, why not just slide the star nut further down and use it in your
new set up?

I may do exactly that. I have a compressor and would have liked to
use it in the new fork.

email hidden said:

However I believe that in my original post my exact words
were "If you wish to remove that star nut your best bet is to drill
out the center..."

What size drill bit would you suggest?

Paul Kopit said:

On 4 Feb 2007 09:12:27 -0800, "[email hidden]"

What size drill bit would you suggest?

Good question. I would inspect the star nut first. Not all are the
same, some have aluminum centers, some steel. Lou is indeed correct
that you can not allow the star nut to spin. I have never seen a star
nut spin inside of a column, but I've only done this to steel and
alumniun columns. If the center is alumnium, and the star nut has
deep groves in the sides then you shouldn't have any trouble. You
need to use a bit that is just slightly smaller then the steel star
around the center piece, about a 5/16. However, if the star washers
have very shallow grooves in them, or the center is steel, then you
should rethink that. Either way I would personally suggest cutting or
drilling out the star nut rather then pound it down in farther.
Pounding it in farther is the last thing I would suggest, but that's
just me. If you don't think it's dangerous then why not just ride
it? A slip with the drill, or a pneumatic die cutter would cause more
damage. I could give you better advice if I could see the fork. Do
you have a digital camera?

email hidden said:

Either way I would personally suggest cutting or
drilling out the star nut rather then pound it down in farther.
Pounding it in farther is the last thing I would suggest, but that's
just me. If you don't think it's dangerous then why not just ride
it? A slip with the drill, or a pneumatic die cutter would cause more
damage. I could give you better advice if I could see the fork. Do
you have a digital camera?

Being that there is no easy and safe way to dispose of the starnut
inside a CF fork, I just hammered it down and returned it to factory
specification. It has never been a problem. Again, there is a sleeve
in the topcap that does down inside the bolt portion of the stem.

Paul Kopit said:

I purchased a used, carbon fiber fork with a CF steertube. A star nut
is installed and I'd prefer to use a compressor type nut. I don't want
to hammer the existing nut down. Cannondale supplys a standard,
metal starnut with their forks. I'm told that they are somewhat
unique in that regard.

I have two cannondales with carbon steerertubes.. and both have the
SFN ... one of the bikes is from the cannondale saeco team and has
cipo as a serial number .. good enough for him.. good enough for me.

charlieb in ct.