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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
3 July 2007
Last activity
7 July 2007
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Mitch
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  1. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Abe said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Well it wasn't a happy 4th for us!

    Our place in Texas was broken into and robbed as well as ransacked!


    My solution? A double tap to the face of every scummy [censored] who wants
    to invade someone elses home.

    Unfortunately, unless you can PROVE that your life was in imminent
    danger, and no, the break-in alone isn't enough to prove that, you're
    looking at a very long time in jail.

    Sad but true.

    Not in Texas...
    You may want to check the Florida laws.
    Many gun laws are modeled on some originally made in Florida.

    My google search was "Texas Deadly Force laws".

    SUBCHAPTER D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY

    9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in
    lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
    justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
    actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
    prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
    interference with the property.
    (b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
    movable property by another is justified in using force against the
    other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
    is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
    property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit
    after the dispossession and:
    (1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
    claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
    (2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using
    force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

    Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
    Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
    1994.

    9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
    justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
    tangible, movable property:
    (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
    other under Section 9.41; and
    (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
    deadly force is immediately necessary:
    (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
    arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
    nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
    (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
    immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
    robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
    property; and
    (3) he reasonably believes that:

    (A) the land or property cannot be protected or
    recovered by any other means; or
    (B) the use of force other than deadly force to
    protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
    another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

    Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
    Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
    1994.

    9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person
    is justified in using force or deadly force against another to
    protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if,
    under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the
    actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force
    or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
    (1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful
    interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or
    criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
    (2) the actor reasonably believes that:

    (A) the third person has requested his protection
    of the land or property;
    (B) he has a legal duty to protect the third
    person's land or property; or
    (C) the third person whose land or property he
    uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent,
    or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.

    Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
    Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
    1994.
    --
    Peace, Om

    Remove _ to validate e-mails.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

  2. Andy said:

    Dave Bugg said...

    Quoted message said:
    Andy said:

    Dan Abel said...

    > In article <[email hidden]>,
    > Abe <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >>>> Well it wasn't a happy 4th for us!
    >>>>
    >>>> Our place in Texas was broken into and robbed as well as
    >>>> ransacked!
    >>>>
    >>> My solution? A double tap to the face of every scummy [censored]
    >>> who wants to invade someone elses home.
    >>
    >> Unfortunately, unless you can PROVE that your life was in imminent
    >> danger, and no, the break-in alone isn't enough to prove that,
    >> you're looking at a very long time in jail.
    >>
    >> Sad but true.
    >
    > I guess it's time to ask, what is a "double tap"? Obviously it is
    > force, but is it lethal or non-lethal?

    A double-tap is a rapid-fire two rounds from a handgun.

    As mentioned above, self-defense doesn't include lethal force for
    defending "things," rather defending the lives of yourself and those
    around you from imminent death, AS A LAST RESORT!!!

    If someone I don't recognize breaks into my house or business when
    I'm present, I'll be in fear of my life. That's all that's required.
    I don't have to 'prove' it, I just have to say it.

    NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

    How fast can you evaluate a threat???

    Fairly quickly.

    How do you REACT to a threat?

    With the force necessary to neutralize it.

    Quoted message said:

    "STOP!!!"? In your home or your business? I'd say you're "I just have
    to say it" would qualify you for prison time.

    Nope.

    Now, please, do you best to concoct a ridiculous scenario to try and make a
    point.

    Quoted message said:

    Suppose it was an Alzheimers person thinking he's breaking into his
    OWN home.

    OK. And let's also suppose that it's a ne'er-do-well punk.

    Quoted message said:

    Would you be right in using lethal force? NOPE.

    For the punk or the alzheimers patient? Are you suggesting that it's ok to
    use other levels of force against an alzheimers patient so long as it's NOT
    lethal force? Well, shame on you!!!!! As for myself, I'd try to calm the
    alheimers patient down and call the police to help him out.

    I'm sorry to hear that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a
    ne'er-do-well punk or when in the presence of a confused senior citizen. I'm
    sure that spending time visiting at a long-term care facility and at your
    local jail will help you solve that problem. In the meantime, I suggest that
    you refuse to take action when faced with the scenario that you painted. You
    don't want to folks to know that you would beat up a confused old man or
    woman.

    Quoted message said:

    But you'd
    shoot first and find out later he was your next door neighbor.

    You don't know your next door neighbors? Man, Andy, you need to get out and
    get to know the folks in your neighborhood.

    --
    Dave
    www.davebbq.com

  3. Sheldon said:
    Quoted message said:

    my sons school. They knew we were going to be away for the March break. We
    used to get a lot of telephone calls with hang-ups as soon as we answered.
    We got a new and unlisted number after that, but now that we have call
    display we are listed again.

    What's "call display" and what does that have to do with having an
    unpublished number?

    "Call display" is "caller ID". It shows you the number that is calling your
    phone. It used to be quite common for people casing a house for a burglary
    to call to see if anyone is home. Call display/caller ID was also a great
    way to deter people from making harassing phone calls. Having a number
    unlisted decreases the chances of someone casing your house to call to
    check if you are home. Once I got the call display I didn't feel the need
    to maintain an unlisted number.

  4. MOMPEAGRAM said:

    "Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    kilikini said:

    MOMPEAGRAM wrote:
    > Well it wasn't a happy 4th for us!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Our place in Texas was broken into and robbed as well as ransacked!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Oh, how lovely. :-( I am so sorry to hear this. Have you made a
    list of
    what is missing? It may be difficult to determine, I know. When I was
    broken into, I'd still find things missing up to a few weeks later. I
    just
    kept calling the police to add the items to the report.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Good luck and I hope they catch the guys who did this.

    Quoted message said:

    Geeze, that sucks.

    Quoted message said:

    Chances are they won't catch the thieves, not unless there was
    anything valuable and out of the ordinary taken, something that would
    send up a red flag when it was attempted to be disposed of. Everyone
    should take lots of pictures of everything they own, all valuables,
    room by room, wall by wall, open each closet, each dresser drawer,
    every cabinet... basement, attic, garage, everything outdoors, even
    inside your car trunk. Then upload all your pics to a photo website,
    there are plenty of free ones. And take tons of pictures, with
    digicams it's easy, it's free.

    Quoted message said:

    I hope they catch the thief, but don't hold your breath... your stuff
    is probably all gone by now, traded for drugs.

    Quoted message said:

    Sheldon

    That's what we do but the dumbest was not listening to my inner voice to
    insure before we left. And I know it was dumb!

    What do you mean by "insure before we left"? So now I'm assuming you
    rent. Everyone who rents needs renter's insurance, from day one.
    Renter's insurance is very inexpensive (less than $1/day). It's very
    good that you didn't take out a policy just before you left on your
    trip. Had you done that you very likely would have been arrested on
    suspician of commiting or orchestrating that burglary.

    Btw, the vast majority of rental burglaries are inside jobs... odds
    are 999 to 1 that you or someone in your household knows the
    burglar(s). The fact that the burglary just happened to occur during
    a planned trip increases those odds a thousand fold.

    Right now (today!) call your insurance company and take out a renter's
    policy... your auto ins company can handle it. No one should ever
    advertise that they are going away (especially not on the net), tell
    your friends after you return.

    Sheldon

  5. hahabogus said:

    Sheldon <[email hidden]> wrote innews:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Dave Smith said:

    MOMPEAGRAM wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Well it wasn't a happy 4th for us!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Our place in Texas was broken into and robbed as well as ransacked!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That is unfortunate. It leaves you feeling violated doesn't it. My
    house was broken into about 15 years ago. We were away on a skiing
    vacation at the time. The police caught the burglars. It was a bunch
    of teenagers from my sons school. They knew we were going to be away
    for the March break. We used to get a lot of telephone calls with
    hang-ups as soon as we answered. We got a new and unlisted number
    after that, but now that we have call display we are listed again.

    Quoted message said:

    What's "call display" and what does that have to do with having an
    unpublished number?

    Quoted message said:

    Sheldon

    You can have call display and have your number blocked from showing on
    other's phones...well you can up here. So sayth the telephone Company
    employeee. There's the feature where you push a series of numbers and
    block your number from showing on a call by call bases or you can have
    total number blocking at various levels of serverity on all calls you
    make. That doesn't stop you from seeing who is calling you...excepting
    others can do the same. You can also get label service where a number not
    necessarily yours is displayed (businesses do it all the time). When they
    want you to call back at a 800 number or whatever.

    That still doesn't explain the part about the unpublished number... I
    don't see how activationg call display, or not, has any bearing on the
    unpublished number. My number is unpublished. I also have what you
    call "call display" (here it's called "anonymous caller service"😉. I
    can turn it on or off by pressing a few keys. When I turn it on all
    callers must turn off their anonymous caller service so that I can
    view who's calling on my caller ID, otherwise their call will not be
    completed. Friendly callers don't mind identifying themselves. But
    the anonymous caller service sure cuts down on telemarketers, and
    especially those awful recorded calls. But this is a totally separate
    service from my unpublished number service... having one has no
    bearing on having the other.

    Sheldon

  6. Abe said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Well it wasn't a happy 4th for us!

    Our place in Texas was broken into and robbed as well as ransacked!


    My solution? A double tap to the face of every scummy [censored] who wants
    to invade someone elses home.

    Unfortunately, unless you can PROVE that your life was in imminent
    danger, and no, the break-in alone isn't enough to prove that, you're
    looking at a very long time in jail.

    Sad but true.

    I like the old days better where an individual could protect his
    property as well as his life. A lot of states are getting away from
    the "Duty to retreat" aspect of self defense so its a step in the
    right direction.

  7. Dave Smith said:
    Sheldon said:
    Quoted message said:

    my sons school. They knew we were going to be away for the March break. We
    used to get a lot of telephone calls with hang-ups as soon as we answered.
    We got a new and unlisted number after that, but now that we have call
    display we are listed again.

    Quoted message said:

    What's "call display" and what does that have to do with having an
    unpublished number?

    "Call display" is "caller ID". It shows you the number that is calling your
    phone. It used to be quite common for people casing a house for a burglary
    to call to see if anyone is home. Call display/caller ID was also a great
    way to deter people from making harassing phone calls. Having a number
    unlisted decreases the chances of someone casing your house to call to
    check if you are home. Once I got the call display I didn't feel the need
    to maintain an unlisted number.

    But then your name, address, and phone number is published for
    everyone to see. I don't see the point in having call display if your
    info is published... that's a false sense of security.

  8. Dan Abel said:
    In article said:

    Caller ID is a the familiar third service (incoming # ID) that's only
    useful purpose these days is for Caller Photo ID at a glance, seen on
    advanced cell phones. If it's a pay-for service, it's hardly worth the
    money.

    We pay for ours on the landline, and it's well worth it. I guess YMMV.

    I'm too cheap to pay for that service, and in fact don't believe in
    paying more for an unlisted number. I solve most of my phone problems by
    having the phone listed in my dog's name. Works for us.

  9. MOMPEAGRAM said:

    Well it wasn't a happy 4th for us!

    Our place in Texas was broken into and robbed as well as ransacked!

    That sounds like a patriotic thing to do on the 4th of July,
    especially in the state where our president comes from. Well, come to
    think of it, Bush has been robbing and ransacking everyone in the USA
    ever since he became president. Strange coincidence !!!!

    Ed N

  10. [email protected] said:
    MOMPEAGRAM said:

    Well it wasn't a happy 4th for us!

    Our place in Texas was broken into and robbed as well as ransacked!

    That sounds like a patriotic thing to do on the 4th of July,
    especially in the state where our president comes from. Well, come to
    think of it, Bush has been robbing and ransacking everyone in the USA
    ever since he became president. Strange coincidence !!!!

    Ed N

    <eye roll>

  11. Abe <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Well it wasn't a happy 4th for us!
    >
    > Our place in Texas was broken into and robbed as well as ransacked!
    >
    My solution? A double tap to the face of every scummy [censored] who
    wants to invade someone elses home.


    Quoted message said:

    Actually, I revise my statement. It really varies quite a bit from
    state to state. I should have done a little more reading before I
    posted. For example, here are the relevant sections of Illinois law:

    ARTICLE 7. JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE; EXONERATION

    (720 ILCS 5/7-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 7-1)
    Sec. 7-1. Use of force in defense of person.
    (a) However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended
    or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably
    believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or
    great bodily harm to himself or another, or the commission of a
    forcible felony.

    (720 ILCS 5/7-2) (from Ch. 38, par. 7-2)
    Sec. 7-2. Use of force in defense of dwelling.
    (a) However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended
    or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if:
    (1) The entry is made or attempted in a violent,
    riotous, or tumultuous manner, and he reasonably believes that such
    force is necessary to prevent an assault upon, or offer of personal
    violence to, him or another then in the dwelling, or
    (2) He reasonably believes that such force is
    necessary to prevent the commission of a felony in the dwelling.

    (720 ILCS 5/7-3) (from Ch. 38, par. 7-3)
    Sec. 7-3. Use of force in defense of other property.
    (a) However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended
    or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably
    believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a
    forcible felony.

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! Commonsense prevails :-)

    --
    Peter Lucas
    Brisbane
    Australia

    "People sleep safely in their beds because rough men stand ready in
    the night to do violence to those who would do them harm"
    -- George Orwell

  12. Dan Abel <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Abe said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Well it wasn't a happy 4th for us!
    >
    > Our place in Texas was broken into and robbed as well as
    > ransacked!
    >
    My solution? A double tap to the face of every scummy [censored] who
    wants to invade someone elses home.

    Unfortunately, unless you can PROVE that your life was in imminent
    danger, and no, the break-in alone isn't enough to prove that, you're
    looking at a very long time in jail.

    Sad but true.

    I guess it's time to ask, what is a "double tap"? Obviously it is
    force, but is it lethal or non-lethal?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_tap

    Once you learn it, it becomes a natural thing to do :-)

    --
    Peter Lucas
    Brisbane
    Australia

    "People sleep safely in their beds because rough men stand ready in
    the night to do violence to those who would do them harm"
    -- George Orwell

  13. Andy <q> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    I guess it's time to ask, what is a "double tap"? Obviously it is
    force, but is it lethal or non-lethal?

    A double-tap is a rapid-fire two rounds from a handgun.

    As mentioned above, self-defense doesn't include lethal force for
    defending "things," rather defending the lives of yourself and those
    around you from imminent death, AS A LAST RESORT!!!

    And how will you know if/or when lives around you are in imminet danger?
    Wait till the home-invader actually does harm to someone??

    You might wait. I won't hesitate.

    --
    Peter Lucas
    Brisbane
    Australia

    "People sleep safely in their beds because rough men stand ready in
    the night to do violence to those who would do them harm"
    -- George Orwell

  14. Mark Thorson said:
    MOMPEAGRAM said:

    Well it wasn't a happy 4th for us!

    Quoted message said:

    Our place in Texas was broken into and robbed as well as ransacked!

    The time to commit a crime is when the police
    are overloaded with other activities. Holidays
    and major natural disasters (earthquakes, forest
    fires, etc.) are examples.

    The time to commit a crime with a gun is when
    there's lots of other explosions to cover up
    the sound of gunfire, New Year's Eve and
    4th of July in the U.S.

    Here in St. Louis, we have a real problem with folks in low income
    neighborhoods firing guns up into the air to celebrate the New Year.
    Every year for several days before New Years Eve they run commercials
    discouraging it. The bullets don't just stay up. They eventually
    come down.

    --Bryan

  15. Bobo Bonobo® said:

    Here in St. Louis, we have a real problem with folks in low income
    neighborhoods firing guns up into the air to celebrate the New Year.
    Every year for several days before New Years Eve they run commercials
    discouraging it. The bullets don't just stay up. They eventually
    come down.

    Arizona now has "Shannon's Law" making that a crime.

    It's named after one of the victims, who was killed just
    standing in her backyard.

    --Blair

  16. Sheldon said:

    That still doesn't explain the part about the unpublished number... I
    don't see how activationg call display, or not, has any bearing on the
    unpublished number.

    The reason for the unpublished number was so that anyone wanting to keep
    calling my number to see if I was home or not would not know the number.

  17. Sheldon said:

    But then your name, address, and phone number is published for
    everyone to see. I don't see the point in having call display if your
    info is published... that's a false sense of security.

    Caller ID has ended a lot of nuisance calling. People who used to make
    crank phone calls soon learned they were no longer anonymous.

  18. "Dave Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Sheldon said:

    That still doesn't explain the part about the unpublished number... I
    don't see how activationg call display, or not, has any bearing on the
    unpublished number.

    The reason for the unpublished number was so that anyone wanting to keep
    calling my number to see if I was home or not would not know the number.

    It also limits the suspects, as well, because only those you gave the number
    to would know where to call you. With caller ID, most teens who think they
    are savvy enough to get away with casing you, usually forget to block their
    own numbers, so you have a record (at least on my phone) of calls received
    and from whom.

    FBS had a stalker and that's how we knew who it was, an old girlfriend, all
    of 17 at the time, who was harassing him since the breakup. Like, yeah,
    I'll make your life miserable until we get back together..........one little
    visit from the police and lo and behold, no more calls in the middle of the
    night.
    -g

  19. Dave Smith said:
    Sheldon said:

    But then your name, address, and phone number is published for
    everyone to see. I don't see the point in having call display if your
    info is published... that's a false sense of security.

    Caller ID has ended a lot of nuisance calling. People who used to make
    crank phone calls soon learned they were no longer anonymous.

    Crank calls aren't nearly so serious as being published permitting the
    crooks and nutcases from knowing where you live... and today most
    crank calls are computer generated anyway (just a roulette wheel),
    there is no real malice or intent directed at a particular individual,
    telemarketers and crank callers are equal opportunity pests. I really
    don't see any security connection between caller ID and being
    unpublished; apples and oranges. Having to make a choice I'd always
    choose unpublished, I can hang up on a crank call but it's not so easy
    to prevent someone who knows how to physically find you from menacing
    you in a real way. Telemarketers/cranks are not seeking to burglarize
    your house. I've always maintained an unpublished number, since long
    before caller ID was a dream. Anyone who gives up their unpublished
    status because they think caller ID is a substitute is a fool.

    Sheldon

  20. In article <[email hidden]>,

    PeterLucas said:
    Quoted message said:

    I guess it's time to ask, what is a "double tap"? Obviously it is
    force, but is it lethal or non-lethal?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_tap

    Once you learn it, it becomes a natural thing to do :-)

    --
    Peter Lucas

    Triple tap is even better...

    2 to center of mass and one to the head in case they are wearing body
    armor. I've seen more than one cop practicing those at the pistol range.

    It's almost scary.
    --
    Peace, Om

    Remove _ to validate e-mails.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a [censored]" -- Jack Nicholson

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