Reflector use and Australian Road Rules for Cyclists

I received a reply from the seller and the reflective effect is red, not white as in the black 3M 680 tape.

I read through P15 of the Act and it does not mention the AS standard in regards to reflectors.

We do need a Lawyer/Cycling Enthusiast in this forum 🙂 .

That hazardous conditions/reduced visibility part seems tricky as well...I don't always think to turn the lights on in a sudden downpour, thereby (I guess) leaving myself to be screwed by an insurance company like you were...my commiserations for that by the way 🙂

Well I did finish my law degree, and my 2c is that the reflective tape would fulfill the spirit and intent of the law (and would have a good chance of being upheld), but I sure wouldn't want to have to be arguing such a fine point just to avoid putting an actual approved reflector on.

I imagine an insurance company would very well use the lack of an approved reflector to deny a claim and leave you working through the courts to get your money.

Now I'm off to find my reflector!

Transfered from Why, why, why?

Quoted post said:

Originaly posted by 'nerdag'.
3M tape isn't standards approved (even though its sh!tloads better and brighter).

The law requires an Australian Standards approved reflector with the tick logo.n

How can '3M' taped clothing comply with AS/NZS 4602:1999 & AS/NZS 1906.4 (CLASS D/N) for our High Visibility Day / Night work clothing and not be classed as a suitable reflector, when we ride our bikes on the road.

Come on! Give me a break!

If it doesn't comply, it just reinforces my opinion that the law is an ass, specially when it comes to OS&H legislation.

All my cycle clothing complies with the above Standards, because NO cycling designed clothing is easily available in cycling shops.

The only product that comes close is 1 made by Netti, a bright lime green cycling jersey. Its 1 draw back is that it doesn't have any reflective stripes.

thebirdman said:

Transfered from Why, why, why?
How can '3M' taped clothing comply with AS/NZS 4602:1999 & AS/NZS 1906.4 (CLASS D/N) for our High Visibility Day / Night work clothing and not be classed as a suitable reflector, when we ride our bikes on the road.

I made a mistake - on second reading of the law as it is in the Australian Road Rules, there is no stated requirement for an AS reflector.

The only requirement is for a "reflector" (and lights, bell, and a brake). As far as I know, there is no definition in the rules for what constitutes a reflector for a bicycle or a car, for that matter (at least not on a quick search through the Acrobat file).

n

beebbleb said:

I sure wouldn't want to have to be arguing such a fine point just to avoid putting an actual approved reflector on.

Hear here.

I'm starting to think that too. I'm not that bothered by how it looks or how much it weighs (its small, and weighs what - 20g?).

If I'm going to get hit again, I would rather concentrate on healing and moving on with my life than dealing with the courts to pay for medical bills, and/or the cost of replacement.

beebbleb said:

I imagine an insurance company would very well use the lack of an approved reflector to deny a claim and leave you working through the courts to get your money.

The goliath screweth everybody else. To be expected, no less.

n

nerdag said:

Hear here.

I'm starting to think that too. I'm not that bothered by how it looks or how much it weighs (its small, and weighs what - 20g?).n

Does the reflector actually work. When I drive my car at night time, evening mostly, that is, it disappoints me how many cyclists ride on the road without lights. Most of these same bikes still have the reflectors that were sold with them, and the only ones seem to work are those stupid ones on our wheels, that threaten to thow us of our bikes, when we go down long steep hills, where we reach over 45/50km/h, and cause the wheels to wobble, because the wheels are unbalanced. The front and rear ones very rarely illuminate the bike or the rider enough, like '3m' type tape on jackets.

nerdag said:

If I'm going to get hit again, I would rather concentrate on healing and moving on with my life than dealing with the courts to pay for medical bills, and/or the cost of replacement.n

This is a good positive attitude. It's just a bonus if you win in a court or against an insurance company

thebirdman said:

Does the reflector actually work. When I drive my car at night time, evening mostly, that is, it disappoints me how many cyclists ride on the road without lights. Most of these same bikes still have the reflectors that were sold with them, and the only ones seem to work are those stupid ones on our wheels

Sheldon Brown presents a very compelling argument as to why reflectors don't work, and although I agree in principle - I am now of the opinion that really is a small price to pay to have it stuck on. I prefer to use lights anyway.

My suspicion is that the wheel/pedal ones work better because our eyes are drawn to movement, particularly colourful movement at night. Rear ones are effectively static, and we see so much red on the road that its probably easier to tune out and not take too much notice of it.

I've actually got 3M reflective strips stuck on my rims to solve the problem of an unopposed spinning weight. I can assure you that it works VERY well, and doesn't look the least bit daft.

n

thebirdman said:

How can '3M' taped clothing comply with AS/NZS 4602:1999 & AS/NZS 1906.4 (CLASS D/N) for our High Visibility Day / Night work clothing and not be classed as a suitable reflector

BTW, I asked the same question of my LBS owner today.

Basically, bicycle stores are required to sell bikes equipped with AS reflectors and a bell.
(NB: As far as he is aware, there was no AS specifying what a suitable bicycle bell was).

He explained that the AS 2142-1978 specification for reflectors on bicycles defined the minumum standard for red, white and yellow reflectors. In NSW at least, the bike shop is responsible for making sure that bikes must be sold with a reflector on the front/rear/pedals and wheels.

NSW Fair Trading is apprently responsible for policing this, and he has had his store stock inspected a few times previously.

He does, however, say that it is legal for him to sell road bikes that are not equipped with reflectors or a bell. His argument is that such bicycles are designed to be used as racing bicycles on a closed circuit, and as such are not subject to road laws.

If a buyer wishes to use the bicycle on a public road, then its his/her responsibility to ensure that it complies with the relevant state law. In his store, at least, he offers to give free reflectors/bells to buyers who do want to comply.

Hope that clarifies things.

n

Hi All

This thread has been very enlightening! My MTB commuter is fully legal but my Roadie certainly doesn't meet standard.

I hate using my bell, would rather come up behind a pedestrian and make sure they know I am there - usually the click of the down-shift wakes them up!

As for the bell I really don't want to be the only the person in Aus with a road bike that has a bell - the shame of it!! If anyone is interested www.probikekit.com have a small bell that sits under the headset - for those who want to be discrete!

Regards
WD

warday said:

As for the bell I really don't want to be the only the person in Aus with a road bike that has a bell - the shame of it!! If anyone is interested www.probikekit.com have a small bell that sits under the headset - for those who want to be discrete!

I just fitted a small bell, largely because of the threads here and also because I never liked cyclists shouting at me when I'm a pedestrian. It's quite discreetly fitted too though not as easy to reach as a handlebar mounted one.

I have to say I have tried riding without a bell and never again. Much better dinging at a ped then yelling. Mind you sometimes you get sick of ringing the bell and people just not moving, mine is quite loud.

Donald

beauyboy said:

I have to say I have tried riding without a bell and never again. Much better dinging at a ped then yelling. Mind you sometimes you get sick of ringing the bell and people just not moving, mine is quite loud.

Donald

How about an AirZound 3? I bought one a year ago and use it all the time. Cars pay attention to the 115dB and pedestrians also move quicker than with a bell (some of youse bagged me on this forum for using it- you reckon i am too aggressive; but on shared paths, I only ever use it for very very short toot- so get over yourselves)
Cars- especially here in hazzard county- I mean hicksville- I mean Perth- will stop in a confused state, wondering where the noise came from because it didn't come from a car, just some short fat dude on a pushbike!!!😄 😄

I've just installed a bell under the stem. Anyone know of a rear light with an integrated and approved reflector?

JeremyP said:

I've just installed a bell under the stem. Anyone know of a rear light with an integrated and approved reflector?

I'm not sure about APPROVED, but this widely available S-SUN SS-L310R (Eaglefly) light has a reflector in it:

[img]chainreactioncycles.com11221.jpgOpen ↗[/img]

It's a nice bright tail light with 3 modes (two blinking patterns plus "on"😉 and mounts on a seatpost or clips to saddlebag.

Just to add to the confusion. I went and checked out the VicRoads rules today. This it what it says for Victorian bikes at night.

a) a flashing or steady white light at the front that is visible for at least 200m

b) a flashing or steady red light at the back that is visible for at least 200m

c) a red reflector at the back of the bicycle that is visible for 50m

there is no mention of reflectors in the wheels or pedals whatsoever.

It's my understanding that this only applies to riding at night or in hazardous weather. And that you don't have to have them on your bike during the day. What does everybody reckon?

GT1965 said:

It's my understanding that this only applies to riding at night or in hazardous weather. And that you don't have to have them on your bike during the day. What does everybody reckon?

True, if you only ride during the day, all you need is a brake and a bell. No reflectors.

And there's no legal requirement for a bicycle on the road to have wheel/pedal reflectors, but, in NSW, bikes must be sold with them.

n

"(b) a bell, horn, or similar warning device, in working order."

Which rider does not carry a pair of vocal cords and a pair of lungs?

artemidorus said:

"(b) a bell, horn, or similar warning device, in working order."

Which rider does not carry a pair of vocal cords and a pair of lungs?

One with a bilateral Xth nerve lesion, although one would think that they'd be far too sick to be riding :eek:

Seriously, though, I asked a lawyer friend of mine about that one when I was hit, and she felt that although you could use your voice to warn people of your presence, one's voice did not constitute a "device", and there wasn't much point in risking a loss and court costs based on that.

I didn't test it in court, though.

n