Refinishing bare aluminum

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 04:39:51 GMT, "Har-VEE" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Looking for any product advice on bare aluminum. I would GREATLY prefer a
rattle can paint system over using automotive HVLP.

Nothing packaged in spray cans is going to stick for very long. Go
with professional-level automotive paint or leave it bare and use
something like Nevr-Dull to keep it shiny. (Or you can go with a
powder coat, though I personally wouldn't use that process due to many
years of horrible results with it in industrial applications. A
number of people who frequently post here have reported good results
with it, but I remain unwilling to stick my hand back in that
wolverine's cage.)
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
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From: [email hidden] (Werehatrack) <edited>

Quoted message said:

Nothing packaged in spray cans is going
to stick for very long. Go with
professional-level automotive paint or
leave it bare and use something like
Nevr-Dull to keep it shiny.

Not entirely true. I used a "rattle-can" spray epoxy and primer (poly-U
for the top coat, also spray-can) to provide the hunter green portion of
my Schwinn, and it's held up better than any "pro sprayed" PJ for the
ten years it's been there.

I just wish I could find that particular paint again.

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 14:12:45 -0400, [email hidden] (Chris

Zacho 'The Wheelman') said:

From: [email hidden] (Werehatrack) <edited>

Quoted message said:

Nothing packaged in spray cans is going
to stick for very long. Go with
professional-level automotive paint or
leave it bare and use something like
Nevr-Dull to keep it shiny.

Not entirely true. I used a "rattle-can" spray epoxy and primer (poly-U
for the top coat, also spray-can) to provide the hunter green portion of
my Schwinn, and it's held up better than any "pro sprayed" PJ for the
ten years it's been there.

I just wish I could find that particular paint again.

Many of the good epoxy paints are gone from the shelves. In some
areas, it's hard to get stuff that isn't formulated to be low-VOC,
which too often translates as "isn't utterly useless [censored]".
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (Werehatrack) <edited>

Quoted message said:

Not entirely true. I used a "rattle-can" spray epoxy and primer (poly-U
for the top coat, also spray-can) to provide the hunter green portion of
my Schwinn,

That is what I am looking for.... Back a few years you could get a two-part
epoxey system in rattle-cans for model airplanes.. I haven't seen it in a
quite a while. I bet it's all up in Canada with the good R-12
refridgerant.

The Harvester

Don't go with powder coating. Most aluminum frames are heat treated and powder coating requires high temperature baking. This draws the temper out of the frame, making it USELESS!

There was a case where a diver powder coated an aluminum SCUBA tank. It failed at pressure, killing him and/or the person filling it.

If you polish the frame yourself, anodization can be done in just about any color. It adds much less weight than paint, looks good and is quite durable. Just don't go hard anodization.

Weisse Luft said:

Don't go with powder coating. Most aluminum frames are heat treated and
powder coating requires high temperature baking. This draws the temper
out of the frame, making it USELESS!

There are (or were) powder-coat application guns that heat the
granules as they are sprayed so that there is minimal heat transfer to
the surface of the material that's getting coated. As of the last
time I had direct experience with that process, it produced a brittle,
poorly-adhered result that was neither very level nor very attractive.
On a forklift mast, it had a life expectancy of about a week. I would
only recommend its use by my competitors.

Quoted message said:

There was a case where a diver powder coated an aluminum SCUBA tank.
It failed at pressure, killing him and/or the person filling it.

Was that the one where the guy was leaning over the top of the fill
well when the end of the tank blew out?

Quoted message said:

If you polish the frame yourself, anodization can be done in just about
any color. It adds much less weight than paint, looks good and is quite
durable. Just don't go hard anodization.

A good point. Anodization has one other advantage; it won't hide
corrosion on the outer surface. It also has one drawback; the threads
in the BB and the headset bores in the head tube need to be masked off
so that they are not anodized with the rest of the frame The process
changes the dimensions of the holes, and anodized threads can be a
royal pain to work with.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Quoted message said:

Don't go with powder coating. Most aluminum frames are heat treated and
powder coating requires high temperature baking. This draws the temper
out of the frame, making it USELESS!

Sorry, powder baking doesn't get hot enough.
Phil Brown

--On Monday, July 26, 2004 3:56 PM +0000 Werehatrack

Quoted message said:

It also has one drawback; the threads
in the BB and the headset bores in the head tube need to be masked off
so that they are not anodized with the rest of the frame The process
changes the dimensions of the holes, and anodized threads can be a
royal pain to work with.

hrmm...chase the threads with a tap/die? I've worked with anodized threaded
fittings and haven't had this sort of problem, but if you have...

Mike
Mechanical Engineering 2006, Carnegie Mellon University
Remove nospam to reply.

Dear Chris,

My local hobby shop, unfortunately now defunct, carried the Poly U line. I
believe the U stood for Urethane. If it is important, I can check out the
can when I get home. I grabbed a can of metallic red at their going out of
business sale, no primer, probably the most important part of the adhesion.
I suppose I could offer you the unopened can but I suspect it is fairly old
and I don't know what that would do to the longevity.

Having just researched rattle can paint jobs, I offer the following
information and sources:

1. The Auto industry uses primarily 2-part catalyzed materials, especially
for the two most important layers, the primer and the UV-protecting clear
top coat. One of the problems is finding someone who will sell less than a
gallon. Spray equipment is an issue, though I have been using an inexpensive
airbrush. Links Below.

2. The industry also sells rattle can "equivalents" for use on small jobs
where it isn't worth filling a spray gun and/or tying up the spray booth.
The sources below list primer, color coat and clear topcoat for a fine
quality rattlecan paint job.

3.Read! Free e-book on autobody work, including painting. Not terribly
comprehensive, but the price is right.

4. The Auto Air Colors line of custom and plain colors works beautifully and
comes in 4-16 ounce bottles, just enough to do a bike for $4.50 and up
depending on color and quantity. be sure to get the catalyst and bonder as
well as any basecoat needed for the exotic colors. I have used these and
love being able to have access to exotic custom car colors in a small,
affordable and non-toxic format. Link below.

Sources:

Rattle can Self-etching primer for steel and aluminum-can be covered with
any automotive finish.
http://www.autobodybrands.com/aeropro/lqr_primers/qck_etch.html

Rattlecan Polyurethane UV clear with performance of catalyzed.(They say. I
haven't
tried this but it is made by U-Pol, one of the leading auto finish
manufacturers in Europe)
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/levineauto/upclear1uvre.html

You can also get real auto paint in spray cans, custom mixed--just like
having your car repainted.
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/levineauto/autpain.html

free e-Book on basic autobody painting:
http://www.autobody101.com/download.php

The Real Thing:

2 part epoxy self-etching primer for aluminum and steel
http://www.autobodybrands.com/primers/vwp.html

Alsa Clear Catalyzed Urethane in 1pt quantity, Also sells inkjet and Laser
printable decal paper. I have used this--excellent gloss, dries fast, sprays
through an airbrush without thinning. Very hard surface--sands and polishes
well, may be a bit brittle if dinged, but surpasses most factory OEM paint
for ruggedness. http://www.kustomrides.com/clearcoat.htm

House of Kolor--Custom Colors and smaller quantities of
clear. I have not used this, but is an industry "standard" Great gallery of
hotrod pictures.
http://hok.com/

Auto Air Colors water based Urethane-compatible custom colors in
small
quantities. http://www.autoaircolors.com/

"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (Werehatrack) <edited>

Quoted message said:

Nothing packaged in spray cans is going
to stick for very long. Go with
professional-level automotive paint or
leave it bare and use something like
Nevr-Dull to keep it shiny.

Not entirely true. I used a "rattle-can" spray epoxy and primer (poly-U
for the top coat, also spray-can) to provide the hunter green portion of
my Schwinn, and it's held up better than any "pro sprayed" PJ for the
ten years it's been there.

I just wish I could find that particular paint again.

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

From: [email hidden] (Har-VEE)

Quoted message said:

"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman""
<[email hidden]> wrote in
message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden]
(Werehatrack) <edited>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not entirely true. I used a "rattle-can"
spray epoxy and primer (poly-U for the
top coat, also spray-can) to provide the
hunter green portion of my Schwinn,

Quoted message said:

That is what I am looking for.... Back a
few years you could get a two-part
epoxey system in rattle-cans for model
airplanes..

Quoted message said:

I haven't seen it in a quite a while. =A0 I bet
it's all up in Canada with the good R-12
refridgerant.

Quoted message said:

The Harvester

Actually, it was a one part paint, at least it came out of a single can
with a standard, albeit high quality spray nozzle. Maybe there was some
sort of volatile inhibitor in it that prevented the epoxy from
polymerizing until it was sprayed? I'm not a paint chemist, so I'm only
guessing.

I do know that the primer coat maintained a "tacky-ness" even after two
days drying time. Probably why the paint lasted so long, it actually
stuck to the metal, instead of just sitting on it, like most enamels.

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

Thanks all!
Man I love this group, If anyone ever needs a mouthy middle-aged kid to yell
at someone for you just let me know. That's just about all I'm good for.

Harvey

Dear Harvey,

Having just researched rattle can paint jobs, I offer the following
information and sources:

1. The Auto Body industry sells rattle can "equivalents" of standard catalyzed paints for use on small jobs where it isn't worth filling a spray gun and/or tying up the spray booth.
The sources below list primer, color coat and clear topcoat for a fine
quality rattlecan paint job. More discussion below.

2. The Auto industry uses primarily 2-part catalyzed materials, especially
for the two most important layers, the primer and the UV-protecting clear
top coat. One of the problems is finding someone who will sell less than a
gallon. Spray equipment is an issue, though I have been using an inexpensive
airbrush. Links Below.

3.Read! Free e-book on autobody work, including painting. Not terribly
comprehensive, but the price is right. More autobody than painting.

4. The Auto Air Colors line of custom and plain colors works beautifully and
comes in 4-16 ounce bottles, just enough to do a bike for $4.50 and up
depending on color and quantity. be sure to get the catalyst and bonder as
well as any basecoat needed for the exotic colors. They require some kind of spray equipment--in my case I use an inexpensive airbrush. I have used these and
love being able to have access to exotic custom car colors in a small,
affordable and non-toxic format. Clearcoat with any polyurethane. Link below.

Some thoughts:

The "standard" non-rattlecan paints are generally catalyzed and dry fairly quickly. Rattlecan enamels and Polys can take literally weeks to months to dry, especially if you get in a hurry and polyurethane an enamel that has dried to the touch, but still has its residual thinner. If you can smell any thinner at all or get a fingernail into it at all, it is not truly dry.

To get my bikes back on the road in a reasonable amount of time, I built a solar powered "bike baker" made with a cut-down bike shipping box painted black inside and out with a large hole cut in one side covered with clear plastic. In the bright sun, it quickly hits 165 deg. F and can cut drying time substantially. If your paint is not well cured already, it can get very soft and stick to the interior. Covering the contact areas with aluminum foil can help, but if it is really soft, you just have to wait. have heard of people rigging a rack for hanging the bikes in the direct heat blast of a shop space heater. Sounds questionable safetywise.

I have used both Helmsman and Varathane brand Polyurethane spray cans from the hardware store with reasonably good results.

Avoid old or cheap paint. The Varathane ended up very slow to dry and quite brittle, but the can I used was probably 7-10 years old. The brittleness of the undercoat is also a factor. I used a can of bargain basement red of indeterminate age I picked up at a garage sale for the color which dried very brittle. In this case< I was painting a bike I picked up at a garage sale for $5 so it sort of made sense, but still it had some major dings before it was even assembled. The Helmsman looks good but is also a bit on the hard-brittle side. It is too new to know how it will hold up, but it is an amber color that would alter light colors.

Your local car parts store likely sells touch-up paint. Avoid the lacquer-based ones because they are brittle, shattering at the slightest ding. They are also soft and prone to scratching. The gloss is poor and longevity short. The enamel-based paints take much longer to dry. and require more skill to spray well

Sources:

Rattle can Self-etching primer for steel and aluminum-can be covered with
any automotive finish.
http://www.autobodybrands.com/aeropro/lqr_primers/qck_etch.html
I found a different brand at my local Checker Auto parts store. It worked fine on steel.

Rattlecan Polyurethane UV clear with performance of catalyzed.(They say. I
haven't
tried this but it is made by U-Pol, one of the leading auto finish
manufacturers in Europe)
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/levineauto/upclear1uvre.html

You can also get real auto paint in spray cans, custom mixed--just like
having your car repainted.
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/levineauto/autpain.html

Auto Air Colors water based Urethane-compatible custom colors in
small quantities. http://www.autoaircolors.com/

free e-Book on basic autobody painting:
http://www.autobody101.com/download.php

The Real Thing:

2 part epoxy self-etching primer for aluminum and steel
http://www.autobodybrands.com/primers/vwp.html

Alsa Clear Catalyzed Urethane in 1pt quantity, Also sells inkjet and Laser
printable decal paper. I have used this--excellent gloss, dries fast, sprays
through an airbrush without thinning. Very hard surface--sands and polishes
well, may be a bit brittle if dinged, but surpasses most factory OEM paint
for ruggedness. http://www.kustomrides.com/clearcoat.htm

House of Kolor--Custom Colors and smaller quantities of
clear. I have not used this, but is an industry "standard" Great gallery of
hotrod pictures.
http://hok.com/

Auto Air Colors water based Urethane-compatible custom colors in
small
quantities. http://www.autoaircolors.com/

As always, these are my opinions others likely have other experiences.
Hope this is useful.

Brian and Zach

"Har-VEE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Looking for any product advice on bare aluminum. I would GREATLY prefer a
rattle can paint system over using automotive HVLP.
Thanks all,
Harvey

Prometheus said:

--On Monday, July 26, 2004 3:56 PM +0000 Werehatrack

Quoted message said:

It also has one drawback; the threads
in the BB and the headset bores in the head tube need to be masked off
so that they are not anodized with the rest of the frame The process
changes the dimensions of the holes, and anodized threads can be a
royal pain to work with.

hrmm...chase the threads with a tap/die? I've worked with anodized threaded
fittings and haven't had this sort of problem, but if you have...

It's been a while, but yes, for tubing fittings I favored plated steel
(where weight wasn't a consideration) over aluminum because they
sealed tightly with less applied force on the flare nut. On Lycoming
and Continental engines, of course, aluminum was usually the material
specified as original, with good reason since it was going into an
aluminum part in most cases. Those anodized fittings had rolled
threads, though; it makes a big difference when the threads are rolled
instead of cut.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Harvey,

I've got a couple of teenage kids who regularly need some yelling. That's a
very valuable skill around my house!

Brian

"Har-VEE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks all!
Man I love this group, If anyone ever needs a mouthy middle-aged kid to

yell

Quoted message said:

at someone for you just let me know. That's just about all I'm good for.

Harvey

Har-VEE said:

Looking for any product advice on bare aluminum. I would GREATLY prefer a
rattle can paint system over using automotive HVLP.
Thanks all,
Harvey

I used a primer coat called Bulldog on my Aluminum frame. Available at Pep-Boys it supposedly also allows you to paint usually non-paintable surfaces like plastic and chrome. It's held up. Coated it with something called Spar Varnish, marine grade clear coat.