Recumbents in traffic?

[Bob Landry]

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:34:28 -0700, Bob Landry
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Here in Utah (Salt Lake City and environs, to be specific) street
>traffic is dominated by full size pickups and SUVs, if not in numbers
>at least in sheer bulk and tonnage.
>A recumbent seems like a really nice idea for my 63 year old body, but
>I worry about visibility. I'm 6'4" and always wear bright colors,
>never been "buzzed" or harassed by cage drivers, but if I'm so low to
>the ground vs. the profile I have on an ATB or road bike, I'm
>concerned that I simply won't be seen by these folks in their rolling
>isolation booths.
>FWIW, this area is abysmal for bike lanes on city streets.
>
>Comments? Experiences?
>
>
>Bob
>Just another nice basic flake.
>(and old fart in training)
>
>International Pipe-raising Day, Feb. 20th

Sounds like the rules for smart riding on an upright apply to
recumbents as well. All the strategies/techniques that were suggested
are all things that I do routinely when I ride, so I'd merely have to
adapt them to a different riding position.

My philosophy is the same as one of my motorcycling friends: "Ride as
though 90% of the drivers can't see you, and the other 10% are trying
to kill you."


Bob
Just another nice basic flake.
(and old fart in training)

International Pipe-raising Day, Feb. 20th

 

[Tom Sherman]

Bob Landry wrote:
> Here in Utah (Salt Lake City and environs, to be specific) street
> traffic is dominated by full size pickups and SUVs, if not in numbers
> at least in sheer bulk and tonnage.
> A recumbent seems like a really nice idea for my 63 year old body, but
> I worry about visibility. I'm 6'4" and always wear bright colors,
> never been "buzzed" or harassed by cage drivers, but if I'm so low to
> the ground vs. the profile I have on an ATB or road bike, I'm
> concerned that I simply won't be seen by these folks in their rolling
> isolation booths.
> FWIW, this area is abysmal for bike lanes on city streets.
>
> Comments? Experiences?

Get a hat (soft, foam, whatever) and a seat back bag in a high
visibility color (the bright yellow-green is an excellent choice) for
daytime riding. For night riding, a bright headlight, taillight AND good
reflectors are necessary. Ride like a "vehicular" cyclist. Do this and
you will be as safe or safer than many other common activities such as
being a pedestrian and riding/driving a motor vehicle.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

 

[DennisTheBald]

I don't know about taking the lane:
If traffic from the lane is allowed to both go straight and turn right
you should get as far left as possible to allow people in reasonably
sized autos to turn right beside you. If the lane only goes straight
you should probably take it all. Just because people in cars are
clueless gits doesn't mean that we should antagonize them, do your
best to share the road with the impatient bastards.

But don't take my word for it buy the book, watch the video, be
effective.

 

[ilaboo]

> of a perceived thing. If you think you are visible then you will feel
> safe.
>
> Ken

over the years if started to ride in the center of the lane--i still
consider it the safest place to ride and to walk--rode in the center of a
lane on a avenue where 80 people a year die--it is impossible to walk across
the avenue ( grand concourse in the bronx) in one light change. over the
yhears of having a cherry bomb--yes the real things explode about 2 inches
in back of my helmeted head, 4 foot 2x4 thrown at me--numerous light bulbs
including the very long fluroescent ones, urine from subway stations etc.. i
started to ride on sidewalks--believe me it was worse--
i still ride but not on roads with lots of traffic and many houses--but this
is no guaraantee of safety--almot got run over on city island
yesterday--kind of a quiet community in da bronx

fwiw

peter

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jan 24, 8:41 am, Harry Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:

> >If he wants to live long --and healthy-- I'd advise that he gets a
> >stationary bike.
>
> >They come cheaply these days.
>
> Say Ed.......You know what???? Perhaps you should make comments on
> things you ACTUALLY know about. I ride in Lincoln, Nebraska on a
> DAILY basis. Meaning I do NOT own a car and am quite happy with that.
> Even when the weather is below zero. "Taking the lane" is something
> that is taught by numerous bicycle instructors. As for riding in the
> street. Around here, when it snow, the sidewalks get....guess
> what...COVERED....and they are often not scooped until later in the
> day...and sometimes not even scooped at all. When the plows come by
> the scooped snow that the leave behind is often left right next to the
> curb. Forcing one to negotiate quite a number of large ice chunks
> when entering or leaving the sidewalk. Makes for pure hell on rims.
>
> Guess in Minnesota it doesn't snow now????? Get your head out of
> your butt before you make comments to me. I plonked you long ago and
> the only time I see ANY of your sorry-ass comments iis when someone
> puts them in quotes.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, I'm glad things work good for you in your frozen bicycle
paradise, but down here in tropical Miami the roads remain "no man's
land." Perhaps you live in a Blue State or something.

"Upon leaving downtown Miami, I ride west along SW 7th Street, a major
east-west surface corridor through the Little Havana neighborhood.
This primarily residential street is one-way and has three travel
lanes. Though the posted speed limit is 30mph, I think I bike closer
to the speed limit than anyone drives. I would like to take more
pictures of this street, but I am usually too busy surviving.

Nonetheless, the street is absolutely inhospitable to the cyclist,
which is why the majority of people ride on the sidewalks."

http://www.planetizen.com/node/26876

 

[Jon Bendtsen]

donquijote1954 wrote:
> On Jan 24, 8:41 am, Harry Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:

[cuuuuuuut]

> Nonetheless, the street is absolutely inhospitable to the cyclist,
> which is why the majority of people ride on the sidewalks."

But pedestrians and bicycles does not match either.
Thats why i am happy that we in Denmark, and other
european countries have divided it into 3. Besides
roads for cars and sideWALKS for pedestrians, we have
a 3. part especially for bicycling. It works very
well.

In the cities where the bicycles cross a road, like
where roads cross each other, we usually color the
path for bicycles with a light blue color to indicate
where bicycles drive and where cars drive.


JonB

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jan 24, 12:19 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 8:41 am, Harry Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [cuuuuuuut]
>
> > Nonetheless, the street is absolutely inhospitable to the cyclist,
> > which is why the majority of people ride on the sidewalks."
>
> But pedestrians and bicycles does not match either.
> Thats why i am happy that we in Denmark, and other
> european countries have divided it into 3. Besides
> roads for cars and sideWALKS for pedestrians, we have
> a 3. part especially for bicycling. It works very
> well.
>
> In the cities where the bicycles cross a road, like
> where roads cross each other, we usually color the
> path for bicycles with a light blue color to indicate
> where bicycles drive and where cars drive.
>
> JonB

I know pedestrians and bikes don't mix, but it's a survival strategy
only.

I got this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpOwp3U7wgI

 

[Jon Bendtsen]

donquijote1954 wrote:
> On Jan 24, 12:19 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> donquijote1954 wrote:
>>> On Jan 24, 8:41 am, Harry Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [cuuuuuuut]
>>
>>> Nonetheless, the street is absolutely inhospitable to the cyclist,
>>> which is why the majority of people ride on the sidewalks."
>> But pedestrians and bicycles does not match either.
>> Thats why i am happy that we in Denmark, and other
>> european countries have divided it into 3. Besides
>> roads for cars and sideWALKS for pedestrians, we have
>> a 3. part especially for bicycling. It works very
>> well.
>>
>> In the cities where the bicycles cross a road, like
>> where roads cross each other, we usually color the
>> path for bicycles with a light blue color to indicate
>> where bicycles drive and where cars drive.
>>
>> JonB
>
> I know pedestrians and bikes don't mix, but it's a survival strategy
> only.
>
> I got this...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpOwp3U7wgI

Yes, that shows the 3 different parts. But also, that
some bikes does not always follow the law.



JonB

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jan 24, 1:10 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 12:19 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> donquijote1954 wrote:
> >>> On Jan 24, 8:41 am, Harry Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> [cuuuuuuut]
>
> >>> Nonetheless, the street is absolutely inhospitable to the cyclist,
> >>> which is why the majority of people ride on the sidewalks."
> >> But pedestrians and bicycles does not match either.
> >> Thats why i am happy that we in Denmark, and other
> >> european countries have divided it into 3. Besides
> >> roads for cars and sideWALKS for pedestrians, we have
> >> a 3. part especially for bicycling. It works very
> >> well.
>
> >> In the cities where the bicycles cross a road, like
> >> where roads cross each other, we usually color the
> >> path for bicycles with a light blue color to indicate
> >> where bicycles drive and where cars drive.
>
> >> JonB
>
> > I know pedestrians and bikes don't mix, but it's a survival strategy
> > only.
>
> > I got this...
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpOwp3U7wgI
>
> Yes, that shows the 3 different parts. But also, that
> some bikes does not always follow the law.
>
> JonB- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, they get exposed to the cars, don't they?

I hear about you having bike lanes on every major road...

 

[Jon Bendtsen]

donquijote1954 wrote:
> On Jan 24, 1:10 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> donquijote1954 wrote:
>>> On Jan 24, 12:19 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> donquijote1954 wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 24, 8:41 am, Harry Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> [cuuuuuuut]
>>>>> Nonetheless, the street is absolutely inhospitable to the cyclist,
>>>>> which is why the majority of people ride on the sidewalks."
>>>> But pedestrians and bicycles does not match either.
>>>> Thats why i am happy that we in Denmark, and other
>>>> european countries have divided it into 3. Besides
>>>> roads for cars and sideWALKS for pedestrians, we have
>>>> a 3. part especially for bicycling. It works very
>>>> well.
>>>> In the cities where the bicycles cross a road, like
>>>> where roads cross each other, we usually color the
>>>> path for bicycles with a light blue color to indicate
>>>> where bicycles drive and where cars drive.
>>>> JonB
>>> I know pedestrians and bikes don't mix, but it's a survival strategy
>>> only.
>>> I got this...
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpOwp3U7wgI
>> Yes, that shows the 3 different parts. But also, that
>> some bikes does not always follow the law.
>>
>> JonB- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Well, they get exposed to the cars, don't they?

exposed and exposed. Usually we have 3 levels
with the bicycle "road" 4-6 inches above the
car road, and the sidewalk 2-4 inches above the
bicycle road.


> I hear about you having bike lanes on every major road...

We have in the cities and some parts on the country
side.



JonB

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jan 24, 1:34 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 1:10 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> donquijote1954 wrote:
> >>> On Jan 24, 12:19 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> donquijote1954 wrote:
> >>>>> On Jan 24, 8:41 am, Harry Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> [cuuuuuuut]
> >>>>> Nonetheless, the street is absolutely inhospitable to the cyclist,
> >>>>> which is why the majority of people ride on the sidewalks."
> >>>> But pedestrians and bicycles does not match either.
> >>>> Thats why i am happy that we in Denmark, and other
> >>>> european countries have divided it into 3. Besides
> >>>> roads for cars and sideWALKS for pedestrians, we have
> >>>> a 3. part especially for bicycling. It works very
> >>>> well.
> >>>> In the cities where the bicycles cross a road, like
> >>>> where roads cross each other, we usually color the
> >>>> path for bicycles with a light blue color to indicate
> >>>> where bicycles drive and where cars drive.
> >>>> JonB
> >>> I know pedestrians and bikes don't mix, but it's a survival strategy
> >>> only.
> >>> I got this...
> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpOwp3U7wgI
> >> Yes, that shows the 3 different parts. But also, that
> >> some bikes does not always follow the law.
>
> >> JonB- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Well, they get exposed to the cars, don't they?
>
> exposed and exposed. Usually we have 3 levels
> with the bicycle "road" 4-6 inches above the
> car road, and the sidewalk 2-4 inches above the
> bicycle road.

Neat idea. It's gonna take our road designers many years to figure
that out.

>
> > I hear about you having bike lanes on every major road...
>
> We have in the cities and some parts on the country
> side.
>
> JonB- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Great. Happy cycling!

Here, though I own 3 bikes, I only use one to the supermarket, barely
1 mile away. And now the stationary bike will really help things. The
road in front of me is just like the one described above, 3 lane with
no room for bikes. The car to bike ratio must be like 10,000 to 1.

Even though I live at the beach, within 10 miles of very attractive
places, I don't have any use for my bikes. Oh, I hang my hats on
them.

 

[Jon Bendtsen]

donquijote1954 wrote:
> On Jan 24, 1:34 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> donquijote1954 wrote:
>>> On Jan 24, 1:10 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> donquijote1954 wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 24, 12:19 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> donquijote1954 wrote:
>>>>>>> On Jan 24, 8:41 am, Harry Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:


[cuuuuuuut]


>>> Well, they get exposed to the cars, don't they?
>> exposed and exposed. Usually we have 3 levels
>> with the bicycle "road" 4-6 inches above the
>> car road, and the sidewalk 2-4 inches above the
>> bicycle road.
>
> Neat idea. It's gonna take our road designers many years to figure
> that out.

I'm not so sure. I read the road engineers in the
Netherlands export their knowledge alot more than
what we do in Denmark.





JonB

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jan 24, 3:08 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 1:34 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> donquijote1954 wrote:
> >>> On Jan 24, 1:10 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> donquijote1954 wrote:
> >>>>> On Jan 24, 12:19 pm, Jon Bendtsen <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>> donquijote1954 wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Jan 24, 8:41 am, Harry Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [cuuuuuuut]
>
> >>> Well, they get exposed to the cars, don't they?
> >> exposed and exposed. Usually we have 3 levels
> >> with the bicycle "road" 4-6 inches above the
> >> car road, and the sidewalk 2-4 inches above the
> >> bicycle road.
>
> > Neat idea. It's gonna take our road designers many years to figure
> > that out.
>
> I'm not so sure. I read the road engineers in the
> Netherlands export their knowledge alot more than
> what we do in Denmark.
>
> JonB

Yeah, but they can only do that when people are willing to
listen...

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends upon his not understanding it."
- Upton Sinclair

 

[donquijote1954]

Hey, I thought I'd be honest to tell you that my girlfriend reminded
me other uses we've got for the bikes...

"you forgot to say that also your girlfriend hangs her cloths"

And then I tell her...

"No, then I'd have to be honest and say you also hang your underwear."


Here's another clip from Denmark...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAgt4Gt7_4o&feature=related

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jan 24, 5:01 pm, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Jon Bendtsen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > donquijote1954 wrote:
> >> On Jan 24, 8:41 am, Harry Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > [cuuuuuuut]
>
> >> Nonetheless, the street is absolutely inhospitable to the cyclist,
> >> which is why the majority of people ride on the sidewalks."
>
> > But pedestrians and bicycles does not match either.
> > Thats why i am happy that we in Denmark, and other
> > european countries have divided it into 3. Besides
> > roads for cars and sideWALKS for pedestrians, we have
> > a 3. part especially for bicycling. It works very
> > well.
>
> Hells Bells, no one walks on sidewalks anymore in America. We gave up on
> that about a generation ago. Sidewalks in small towns are especially
> deserted. In fact, the newer sections of town will not even have sidewalks..
>
> > In the cities where the bicycles cross a road, like
> > where roads cross each other, we usually color the
> > path for bicycles with a light blue color to indicate
> > where bicycles drive and where cars drive.
>
> I am sure you have to be very careful wherever a bike path crosses a road.
> Also, I am not much in favor of bike lanes. I prefer my own separate bike
> path always, especially in metro areas.
>

I think this answers your concern...

On Jan 24, 5:23 pm, Jens Müller <[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 schrieb:
>
> >> Real democracy is based on abolishing apartheid based on power source.-Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > What you mean, that Holland or America practice apartheid? I think
> > America practices discrimination only...
>
> The Netherlands do, from what I know.
>
> The UK, e.g., does not.

Well, if you have to fend for yourself on dangerous roads, then the
government is discriminating against you. This quote applies here...

"Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral." -Paulo
Freire

In other words, the cyclist is the powerless, whose power is next to
nothing. Sort of like an insect. You'll be lucky if the car doesn't
leave the scene, something very common.

But if you are separated by bike paths (not bike lanes) though it
constitutes apartheid, it's a welcome separation in order to gain
safety. The difference between discrimination and apartheid is
important. At least when it comes to bicycle riding.