Recumbents and flags?

On 17/3/05 5:16 pm, in article
[email hidden], "LSMike"

Quoted message said:

p.s., a taxi driver gave me a telling off this morning for having my
helmet tied to my rack bag. (I was going skating and don't like
wearing it on the recumbent).

I presume you informed him that if you hadn't tied it on it would have
fallen off...

...d

LSMike said:

I'm interested, who here thinks it's useful to have flag on a
recumbent, especially a fairly low one?

Dunno. I have one, on a fairly short mast, but I can't think it makes
a lot of odds.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

LSMike said:

I'm interested, who here thinks it's useful to have flag on a
recumbent, especially a fairly low one? I'm interested in all
opinions, but it would be great if you could say whether you ride a
recumbent.

I have quite a tall flag on my Trice and its proved to be very useful.
It has been used as a goalpost in a game of footie and as a 'washing
line' when camping.
I'm sure it would be useful if I ever needed to fish a hat out of a river.

Quoted message said:

I don't think so, and the last week would indicate drivers see me just
as well as on the ordinary bike,

I would suggest your question though, is best asked to motorists.
I'm sure uk.tosspot would love to answer ;-)

Quoted message said:

only they don't forget I'm there quite
so easily. Still, lots of people keep telling me about flags,
tiresomely so. I'm quite willing to give a flag a try and see whether
it makes any difference to the traffic. I saw a good quote somewhere,
somebody said it'd be like adding a flag to a Martian spaceship for the
purposes of drawing more attention.

Problem is that many motorists wouldn't see a Martian spaceship either
if it were right in front of their bonnet :-(

John B

JohnB said:

I have quite a tall flag on my Trice and its proved to be very useful.
It has been used as a goalpost in a game of footie and as a 'washing
line' when camping.
I'm sure it would be useful if I ever needed to fish a hat out of a river.

I wonder, though, whether it makes the problems with horses worse?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Response to LSMike:

Quoted message said:

I'm interested, who here thinks it's useful to have flag on a
recumbent, especially a fairly low one? I'm interested in all
opinions, but it would be great if you could say whether you ride a
recumbent.

I ride a recumbent, which came with a flag; I use it (more or less) only
at night, when it has a little blinkie on the top.

I've got no idea whether a flag makes me more visible during the day,
though a flag is more likely to be visible than absense of same, IFSWIM.

At night, I kind-of hope that the blinkie waving slightly about will
make people notice me, rather than merely see me; but what with the
other lights, and the reflective stuff I've stuck everywhere, it
probably makes no particular difference.

Quoted message said:

Still, lots of people keep telling me about flags,
tiresomely so. I'm quite willing to give a flag a try and see whether
it makes any difference to the traffic.

One interfering acquaintance never loses a chance to be Very Worried
about my visibility, and wags a finger at me for not using the flag; I
remain unconvinced. I've resisted the temptation to ask her how she
keeps noticing that I'm going round without a flag. ;-)

--
Mark, UK.

"Between believing a thing and thinking you know is only a small step
and quickly taken."

LSMike composed the following;:

Quoted message said:

I'm interested, who here thinks it's useful to have flag on a
recumbent, especially a fairly low one? I'm interested in all
opinions, but it would be great if you could say whether you ride a
recumbent.

I don't ride a recumbent, but I do come across one or two local riders
of them.

I'd say the flags are quite noticeable, no matter how small, because
they are constantly moving differently to the rest of the vehicle. A
recumbent, indeed any cycle, on it's own looks almost stationary when
viewed from behind. There is little that changes the outline and little
to 'catch the eye', which mis what, I presume, the little flag does. It
simply catches the eye, thus making a six inch square, fluttering, bit
of nylon way more visible than a 6 foot square 'apparently' un-moving
recumbent.

That's my theory anyway, with little behind it other than personal
observation.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

LSMike said:

I'm interested, who here thinks it's useful to have flag on a
recumbent, especially a fairly low one?

I've ridden my StreetMachine GT both with and without a flag that I
bought in H*lfords. I can't say I've noticed any difference in the
behaviour of drivers. Like you, I've been told by drivers that I know
that they think I should use a flag. I can see their point if I'm around
a bend, obscured by a four-foot hedge. I suppose the movement of the
flag relative to the bike may improve visibility too.

The only near-miss I've had so far was with a driver who saw me
(presumably), tried to overtake as we were approaching a blind bend and
had to brake heavily, skidding towards me for what seemed like a very
long time. I had the flag, but I don't think it helped.

Bob

LSMike said:

I'm interested, who here thinks it's useful to have flag on a
recumbent, especially a fairly low one? I'm interested in all
opinions, but it would be great if you could say whether you ride a
recumbent.

I've never felt the need on the Street Machine. A Hurricane is a bit
lower, but I still doubt that I'd feel the need. Remember that a flag
will add drag. Some people reckon it might slow you down by as much as
2-3 mph, though I doubt the effect is that great.

I use a flag when I'm towing a trailer (two if the trailer's got my kids
in it), but I've never bothered with a flag attached to my bike.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

In article <[email hidden]>, Just zis Guy,
you know? <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I wonder, though, whether it makes the problems with horses worse?

Do you find the recumbent spooks horses more than an upright? I had some
problems during the winter with the Street Machine in Windsor Great
Park, some horses seemed a tad nervous. I had the fairing fitted and the
lights on, which probably gives the bike a strange look from the front,
as the front light shines through the fairing. Had much less problems
with the lights off.

--
Peter Grange

Just zis Guy said:

JohnB said:

I have quite a tall flag on my Trice and its proved to be very useful.
It has been used as a goalpost in a game of footie and as a 'washing
line' when camping.
I'm sure it would be useful if I ever needed to fish a hat out of a river.

I wonder, though, whether it makes the problems with horses worse?

I've experienced spoofing horses on the Trice - and it can be quite
frightening when they are close. An Oity in hard hat tried to blame me
once for riding something that her horse had never seen before.
I suggested she let her horse out more often.

For many years we towed a Burley trailer with a similar flag, and I
don't recall any problems with horses and that included quite a few
trips into the New Forest.

This makes me think its not the flag but it is the machine.

Or is it the Grin?

John B

Peter Grange said:

Do you find the recumbent spooks horses more than an upright?

Absolutely. One refused to be led past it even if I lay the flag on
the ground and stand well away from it.

Horses are not the sharpest tools in the box and their survival
instinct dictates that when they see something they don't like they go
very very fast in the general direction of Away...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

LSMike said:

I'm interested, who here thinks it's useful to have flag on a
recumbent, especially a fairly low one? I'm interested in all
opinions, but it would be great if you could say whether you ride a
recumbent.

I do, because I negotiate a multi-lane one-way system twice daily.
Lots of merging from one lane to another going on. I don't want to be
in one lane when numpty 4x4 driver glances right for one-tenth of a
pico-nano-tiny-second then decides to drift across a lane. If
he/she/it glances right and sees an eye-level flourescent flapping
flag, I hope something crosses what passes for their mind before they
start drifting sideways.

I don't think a flag helps people approaching from ahead or behind to
see you.

I ride a Trice XL.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

LSMike said:

I'm interested, who here thinks it's useful to have flag on a
recumbent, especially a fairly low one? I'm interested in all
opinions, but it would be great if you could say whether you ride a
recumbent.

I don't think so, and the last week would indicate drivers see me just
as well as on the ordinary bike, only they don't forget I'm there quite
so easily. Still, lots of people keep telling me about flags,
tiresomely so. I'm quite willing to give a flag a try and see whether
it makes any difference to the traffic. I saw a good quote somewhere,
somebody said it'd be like adding a flag to a Martian spaceship for the
purposes of drawing more attention.

I don't ride a recumbant, and frankly I've only seen the one in the past
several years around this neck of the woods. However, I was driving
past in the opposite direction when I did see it, and I nearly crashed
because I was busy looking at it. It didn't have a flag. I don't think
a flag would have stopped me from nearly crashing, though. To be honest,
only there not being a recumbant on the other side of the road would have
stopped me from nearly crashing.

I think there is a good argument for banning recumbents from the road,
because they could cause crashes. Flags are irrelevant. No wonder
they call it the dark side. They're a hazard to navigation on the
highway. That, and they look like they need trainer wheels. How do
they stay up - it's unnatural, clearly the work of Stan. No wonder
I nearly crashed. I bet they don't pay taxes or insurance, either, so
who would have paid if I had crashed? And it wasn't wearing a helmet,
so it's obviously not going to be my fault if I had crashed.

--
Trevor Barton

LSMike said:

I'm interested, who here thinks it's useful to have flag on a
recumbent, especially a fairly low one?

My Streetmachine has never had one, and the only times I feel I haven't
been seen is when I was actually watching the driver /not looking/. If
you're not looking then, as John said, a Martian Spaceship right in
front won't register. Because of that I've never really felt the need
of a flag.
Roos' Fiero is similar heightwise to your Hurricane, and she's never
bothered with a flag yet. I must say she strikes me as pretty obviously
not empty space when riding the bike, but then I've got an excuse to
notice. OTOH, my pal Tom's Lotus Elise is similarly low and doesn't
have a flag, and people haven't made a habit of crashing into him...

The main use for a flag is, IMHO, if you like flags.

People do go on about them, but then they tell me nobody will be able to
see me anyway and after a few years on 'bents I know that's rubbish.
When I'm driving the car I can see cats, rabbits and pheasants, which
are a bit lower than the lowest 'bent in existence, and potholes, which
are rather lower still, so I don't see why something a good meter
higher, rather longer and generally more brightly coloured won't
register just because there isn't a flag on it.

Caveat: Dundee may be Scotland's 4th biggest city, but Hyde Park Corner
probably sees more traffic in any given working hour than the whole town
here sees in a day.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Just zis Guy said:

I wonder, though, whether it makes the problems with horses worse?

I don't think so. I don't use one and the stupid dobbins /still/ go mental.
Why can't these people use motorbikes instead?

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

Peter Grange said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Just zis Guy,
you know? <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I wonder, though, whether it makes the problems with horses worse?

Do you find the recumbent spooks horses more than an upright?

Definitely.

When meeting horses on the road I always stop, speak to the horse and if
it seems necessary, stand up, so that it can see I'm just a Human Bean
and not a Neevil Horse-Eating Monster.

Some of the riders seem to think the flag makes a difference, so I
usually take it off when I stop, but that's more to placate the riders
than any belief in it making a difference. IMO rider attitude matters
more - if the rider is confident, that will communicate to the horse and
likewise if they're nervous.

--
Carol
"Mmmmooooowooooff!" - the Moobark, "The Treacle People"

Bob Johnstone bob.johnstoneReplaceThisWithAnAtSignphysics.org said:

LSMike said:

I'm interested, who here thinks it's useful to have flag on a
recumbent, especially a fairly low one?

I've ridden my StreetMachine GT both with and without a flag that I
bought in H*lfords. I can't say I've noticed any difference in the
behaviour of drivers.

Likewise on my Greenspeed GTO (except that the flag came with the trike
rather than being bought in H*lf*rds). I do ride in a fairly rural area
though - possibly a flag might be more use in heavy town traffic, where
the trike would be more easily obscured by other vehicles?

IME, the trike usually has enough of a WTF factor to be noticed by all
but the doziest of dozy gits, and there's really no help for those.

--
Carol
"Mmmmooooowooooff!" - the Moobark, "The Treacle People"

Dave Larrington said:

I don't think so. I don't use one and the stupid dobbins /still/ go mental.
Why can't these people use motorbikes instead?

Cos you can't eat a motorbike if you get stranded?
I don't think they make as good glue either.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

In article said:

LSMike said:

I'm interested, who here thinks it's useful to have flag on a
recumbent, especially a fairly low one? I'm interested in all
opinions, but it would be great if you could say whether you ride a
recumbent.

I've never felt the need on the Street Machine. A Hurricane is a bit
lower, but I still doubt that I'd feel the need. Remember that a flag
will add drag. Some people reckon it might slow you down by as much as
2-3 mph, though I doubt the effect is that great.

I use a flag when I'm towing a trailer (two if the trailer's got my kids
in it), but I've never bothered with a flag attached to my bike.

I felt a flag was useful when towing an empty trailer-cycle (on the way
home from work which finished rather later than the nursery school where
I had left child in the morning), but that's only a feeling, no one ever
said "I'm glad you had that flag I nearly didn't see the trailer".