Recumbents

Quoted message said:

I commute approx 25km each way on a normal 'two triangle' upright at
present, about 3 times a week. My office has moved, adding about 10km
to the journey and I need something faster and easier to travel the
extra distance without adding too much more time. The riding is
mostly Sustrans route or towpath so it isn't 'pure' road work. Does
anyone have any advice to offer?

mainly, don't assume you'll go much quicker, at least on towpaths or
Sustrans type paths where it's quite common for the bike's nominal top
speed not to be a sensible speed due to surfaces, sightlines, other
users etc. If you want to go appreciably faster then first suggestion
is use the road.

Beyond that, though fast recumbents are fast, not all recumbents are.
The fastets are fully faired velomobiles, but they're costly and not
well suited to much /except/ roads, or at least fully unobstructed paths.

Quoted message said:

How difficult is it to adapt to the bike?

Not very: it all tends to work the same way, the main problem is getting
over nervousness, which tends to amplify the primary handling difference
of the handling being *much* lighter. Any pull on the bars beyond the
minimum needed tends to result in wavy steering, which tends to tense up
the rider, which results in more pull on the bars and so on until you
either put a foot down or fall off. Doesn't take long to get over that
though.

Quoted message said:

What are they like to ride on trails rather than road?

Depends on the individual design, just like an upright. In fact, don't
think of recumbents as recumbents, a functional class of bike. You
wouldn't get a useful answer from "what are upright bikes like on trails
other than roads", and so too the case with recumbents.

Quoted message said:

Can you take them on trains?

Typically you can for bikes, where you can with "normal" bikes, but
trikes much less likely.

Quoted message said:

Are they really and genuinely a 'step forward' or should I spend the
money (not an insignificant amount) on a higher spec upright/
conventional bike?

They are a positive step but tangential rather than ahead of an upright.
I use a recumbent tourer not /because/ it's a recumbent but because it
fits my particular touring needs better than any upright I've seen (it's
much more comfortable, especially for my wrists and arms and neck,
carries luggage better and gives me a better view of where I'm going).
I use an upright folder not because it's upright but becuase it's the
best package of small, quick fold and rideable bike for my particular needs.

So assess your particular needs and compare solutions, be they recumbent
or not.

Quoted message said:

How do you fare in traffic, being lower down and all that?

I get noticed more and given more space. On the other hand they're not
nearly as nimble as, say, a Brompton in poking through wee spaces.
Whether one is more use than the other depends on the sort of traffic,
but don't worry about being invisible.

Quoted message said:

Does the longer wheelbase make them slow handling and unweildy?

Again, implementation dependant. Short and compact wheel base versions
aren't actually that different in wheel base to a conventional diamond
frame bike. Handling is /different/ rather than worse or better. I
generally find that at very low speeds you can't beat a Brompton easily
(unless you're good at unicycling...) but at high speed I much prefer
recumbents (at least those made for high speeds).

The main gain from a recumbent is comfort, *not* speed (unless you get a
velomobile), especially if top speed is limited in any case by choice of
route. For "faster and easier without adding much time" I'd say it's
entirely likely the easiest and cheapest way to get the required result
is use the roads.

Not that I want to put you off a recumbent (I love mine) but I don't
think it's the solution here. If you do get onto the roads, and they're
basically open uncongested roads, a recumbent might be a useful thing to
look at then.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

Hi I'm looking for any advice, background or riding experiences with
recumbents.

I commute approx 25km each way on a normal 'two triangle' upright at
present, about 3 times a week. My office has moved, adding about 10km
to the journey and I need something faster and easier to travel the
extra distance without adding too much more time.

The extra 10km will be significant in time, you won't get it back with a
quicker bike, no matter what design. Once you are up to "reasonably quick
tourers/hybrids", a quicker bike might shave a little off the time, but its
not going to knock 25% back.

Quoted message said:

The riding is
mostly Sustrans route or towpath so it isn't 'pure' road work. Does
anyone have any advice to offer?

In particular:

How difficult is it to adapt to the bike?

Not hard, though not instant. A few hours practise for the basics, then a
few longer rides to get the fine tuning. Good dealers have training systems
to move you quickly from a "wobbler on an easy to ride model" to a "swift
confident rider of a twitchy racing machine".

Quoted message said:

What are they like to ride on trails rather than road?

Variable, depends on the model. Much like an upright; a track racer would
be horrid, a tourer/cyclecross a fast compromise and a MTB comfortable but
slower.

Quoted message said:

Can you take them on trains?

Yes, but many are longer than uprights, or somewhat less easy to carry.
Won't necessarily fit the bike retaining systems. Expect it to be hassle if
commuting. For longer leisure trips, not significantly more hassle.

Quoted message said:

Are they really and genuinely a 'step forward' or should I spend the
money (not an insignificant amount) on a higher spec upright/
conventional bike?

They are different. Some genuinely light & quick models do go quicker than
uprights (once you've trained for them), but most do not. Many are
noticeably heavier than an upright. If your commute has a lot of
stop-start, or a section with traffic queues which can be "filtered", then I
think you will be quicker on an upright.

Quoted message said:

How do you fare in traffic, being lower down and all that?

Most traffic give you an extra-wide berth, frequently mouthing "what the
f**k is that idiot doing on that contraption" whilst going extra wide to
avoid scratching their car. So arguably safer than an upright where they
will "squeeze past".

BUT, in general, they are not suited to "filtering up the white line" or
"seeing over the cars to jump ahead of the queue". You cannot "stand up" on
pedals to get very fast initial acceleration, nor a view of what's around.
Its hard to "put a foot down and scoot along" to get round the one idiot
blockign the cycle.
In some traffic situations, this lack of agility costs very significant
commuting time.

When I had a recumbent, my timings to work (22km each way) were 10 minutes
slower than my touring upright, and nearly all that was lost in the traffic
heavy centre of town area; instead of being able to filter up stationary
lines of traffic, I often had to wait my turn with the cars, and much of the
gain of a cycle in town was lost. Out of town, on fairly flat open roads,
the average speed wasn't significantly different to the upright.

Quoted message said:

Does the longer wheelbase make them slow handling and unweildy?

Depends, some long wheelbase models are very very stately. Others are
fairly agile.

Quoted message said:

Etc etc!

Strongly suggest you go somewhere with day long hires. Initially to try out
machines, then to take one a decent distance, and into traffic loosely as
"bad" as your regular commute.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

"Nigel Cliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi I'm looking for any advice, background or riding experiences with
recumbents.

I commute approx 25km each way on a normal 'two triangle' upright at
present, about 3 times a week. My office has moved, adding about 10km
to the journey and I need something faster and easier to travel the
extra distance without adding too much more time.

The extra 10km will be significant in time, you won't get it back with a
quicker bike, no matter what design. Once you are up to "reasonably quick
tourers/hybrids", a quicker bike might shave a little off the time, but
its not going to knock 25% back.

Quoted message said:

The riding is
mostly Sustrans route or towpath so it isn't 'pure' road work. Does
anyone have any advice to offer?

In particular:

How difficult is it to adapt to the bike?

Not hard, though not instant. A few hours practise for the basics, then a
few longer rides to get the fine tuning. Good dealers have training
systems to move you quickly from a "wobbler on an easy to ride model" to a
"swift confident rider of a twitchy racing machine".

Quoted message said:

What are they like to ride on trails rather than road?

Variable, depends on the model. Much like an upright; a track racer would
be horrid, a tourer/cyclecross a fast compromise and a MTB comfortable but
slower.

Quoted message said:

Can you take them on trains?

Yes, but many are longer than uprights, or somewhat less easy to carry.
Won't necessarily fit the bike retaining systems. Expect it to be hassle
if commuting. For longer leisure trips, not significantly more hassle.

Quoted message said:

Are they really and genuinely a 'step forward' or should I spend the
money (not an insignificant amount) on a higher spec upright/
conventional bike?

They are different. Some genuinely light & quick models do go quicker
than uprights (once you've trained for them), but most do not. Many are
noticeably heavier than an upright. If your commute has a lot of
stop-start, or a section with traffic queues which can be "filtered", then
I think you will be quicker on an upright.

Quoted message said:

How do you fare in traffic, being lower down and all that?

Most traffic give you an extra-wide berth, frequently mouthing "what the
f**k is that idiot doing on that contraption" whilst going extra wide to
avoid scratching their car. So arguably safer than an upright where they
will "squeeze past".

BUT, in general, they are not suited to "filtering up the white line" or
"seeing over the cars to jump ahead of the queue". You cannot "stand up"
on pedals to get very fast initial acceleration, nor a view of what's
around. Its hard to "put a foot down and scoot along" to get round the one
idiot blockign the cycle.
In some traffic situations, this lack of agility costs very significant
commuting time.

When I had a recumbent, my timings to work (22km each way) were 10 minutes
slower than my touring upright, and nearly all that was lost in the
traffic heavy centre of town area; instead of being able to filter up
stationary lines of traffic, I often had to wait my turn with the cars,
and much of the gain of a cycle in town was lost. Out of town, on fairly
flat open roads, the average speed wasn't significantly different to the
upright.

Quoted message said:

Does the longer wheelbase make them slow handling and unweildy?

Depends, some long wheelbase models are very very stately. Others are
fairly agile.

Quoted message said:

Etc etc!

Strongly suggest you go somewhere with day long hires. Initially to try
out machines, then to take one a decent distance, and into traffic loosely
as "bad" as your regular commute.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

I would second the idea of "try before you buy". Back in September I had a
very (very) short go on a recumbent trike. That wetted my appetite so I
asked here (that would be early October) about places to go. I ended up at
London Recumbents in Dulwich but it seemed to me there were only 3 or 4
places in the Souther half of the UK that offered the opportunity. London
Recumbents have the advantage of being in Dulwich Park and a car less
circuit. Mind you, that doesn't mean traffic less. I went about 3 in the
afternoon and found myself dodgin other cyclists, kids, mums with baby
carriages, dogs and the like.

The first thing I did was fall off. The guys had seen it all before and
repeated what they had said about not pulling on the handlebars etc and
second time I managed to set off. They said it takes some people 10 goes
but I think they were being nice to me! I did a lap and a half of the park
and then decidied I'd better stop and see if I could start again. Stopping
was a little interesting but I managed it and the restart without actually
falling (it wasn't very elegant however). I then plucked up courage to try
some tighter turns and I can appreciate the comments about ease of
manouvering in traffic; I don't believe it would be easy. Speed? Well I
didn't feel confident enough to really speed and the bike they put me on was
a pretty basic one (no underseat handlebars for instance) but I reckon
effort for effort I probably managed a simialr speed to my Ridgeback
Nemesis.

Will I buy one? Not right now. The Ridgeback is only about 2 years old
and it's not as if I do enormous amounts of riding. I can't really justify
the expense. I do keep looking at the websites so maybe one day.

One thing I do regret is that very few manufacturers seem to offer hub gears
and where they do they tend to be Rohloff and the like.

Hum - very interesting feedback, thanks to all of you. Seems like the
marketing hype may exceed the reality, but then when was that
news ;?) Some of my mountain bike mates think that recumbents are
solely for attention-seekers, and are already taking the p*ss because
I'm even considering one! There's no doubt that I could get a very
decent roadbike/hybrid (or even a couple of years' season tickets -
joking!) for the same kind of money.

Think I'll give careful consideration to my route as roads are
certainly an option but fairly unpleasant at 08.00 on a wet March
morning and also not the most direct way. Plus I think I'd miss the
fresh air along the Forth and Clyde towpath. The fact that you
actually took *longer* on the 'bent because of traffic hold-ups is a
bit of a downer too - I'd have about 5 or 6 ks of traffic'y route
whichever way I go and certainly understand the duck and dive
techniques available to the 'upright' cyclist.

I've got a test-ride organised with Kinetics in Glasgow - 24th Jan
(earliest Sat I can make) - which should clarify quite a few things I
think. Appreciate the suggestion of arranging a longer trial, with
rental if necessary - I guess I can see if the rental could be rebated
against the purchase if I go ahead, or something like that. Thanks
again and anyone out there please post more info.

Quoted message said:

I've got a test-ride organised with Kinetics in Glasgow - 24th Jan
(earliest Sat I can make) - which should clarify quite a few things I
think. Appreciate the suggestion of arranging a longer trial, with
rental if necessary - I guess I can see if the rental could be rebated
against the purchase if I go ahead, or something like that. Thanks
again and anyone out there please post more info.

If you can bear to travel across to Edinburgh, you may want to have a
chat with sometime contributor to this group Mr Laidback [1]. He is
based off the Meadows and offers various getting to know it packages. [2]

[1] http://www.laid-back-bikes.co.uk/
[2] I have no connection with this, not even as a customer. I just spent
a pleasant hour or 2 chatting to the man at the end of the ride a couple
of years ago.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"To communicate with Mars, converse with spirits, To report the
behaviour of the sea monster, Describe the horoscope,
haruspicate or scry, Observe disease in signatures." (T.S.Eliot)

Don Whybrow said:

If you can bear to travel across to Edinburgh, you may want to have a
chat with sometime contributor to this group Mr Laidback [1]. He is
based off the Meadows and offers various getting to know it packages. [2]

[1]http://www.laid-back-bikes.co.uk/
[2] I have no connection with this, not even as a customer. I just spent
a pleasant hour or 2 chatting to the man at the end of the ride a couple
of years ago.

--
Don Whybrow

Thanks Don - will do - (good name, Mr Laidback - Nomme de Guerre I
suppose? although I did know a girl who was genuinely called Honor
Head)

Quoted message said:

Thanks Don - will do - (good name, Mr Laidback - Nomme de Guerre I
suppose? although I did know a girl who was genuinely called Honor
Head)

David will let you play on Challenges and Nazcas, Ben at Kinetics is an
HPVelotechnik dealer. They're all good machines, but personal
preference will take you to one or the other. Best to try everything
you can if you do go for one.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/