Recumbent Tandems

Jim Kellett said:

I'm just starting to browse around for a (hopefully) used 'bent tandem,
available "on the East coast". Naturally, I'd prefer a really cheap Rans
Screamer <gr> . .. but, frankly, I'm not sure we're going to get on OR just
how serious the missus is about stoking. The only 'bent tandems I've RIDDEN
are the Screamer, Longwood (I think that's now called a Longbike, right?)
and a Vision - - - but I'm flexible....

Longwood? Was it a Ryan Fleetwood [1], perhaps? This bike is now back in
production as the Longbikes Gulfstream. [2]

A tandem will in most cases make a cycling relationship better, or
destroy it completely, depending on the personalities involved.

You might see some BikeE E2's [3] out there at fairly low prices, since
they were only about $2K new and the manufacturer is now out of
business. This might be a solution, but I would proceed with caution
based on experience - the handling with a stoker is VERY different from
most recumbents, I found it very difficult to control. (The E2 is very
easy to ride solo.)

J&B/Sun sells the EZ Tandem [4]. This bike is $2K new, so a year or two
old model (the oldest one could be) might be in your price range.

[1] Later, Ryan changed the name to Duplex under pressure from General
Motors' trademark lawyers.
[2] <http://www.tandembike.com/Gulfstream.html>.
[3] <http://tandem-fahren.de/Modelle/Lieger/e2.jpg>.
[4] <http://www.easyracers.com/ez_tandem.htm>.

--
Tom Sherman – Greater QCA

Hey, I went to high school with Jim Kellett. PS DuPont '60.

"Jim Kellett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm just starting to browse around for a (hopefully) used 'bent tandem,
available "on the East coast". Naturally, I'd prefer a really cheap Rans
Screamer <gr> . .. but, frankly, I'm not sure we're going to get on OR
just
how serious the missus is about stoking. The only 'bent tandems I've
RIDDEN
are the Screamer, Longwood (I think that's now called a Longbike, right?)
and a Vision - - - but I'm flexible.

So, anyone out there with one storing dust in his/her garage?

Jim Kellett
(GRR driver)

Jim Kellett said:

So, anyone out there with one storing dust in his/her garage?

Yep, it's a 1999 Cambie Recumboni X2. I don't have any photos of it at
hand, but it's the old tiller-steering version, not the new
linked-steering version seen at the Cambie web-page:

http://www.cambiecycles.com/custom.html

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

My tandem is a Bikee E2. I rode GOBA 03 with my daughter. We had no
real difficulty in the week-long, 350 mile supported ride, although
Tom is right: the steering is odd but safe. The forks actually have
a negative bend. If you go this route, be careful to buy the last
version of the E2 with a 32 spoke front wheel, Avid disc brakes and
other improvements that make this bent bulletproof. One great
advantage is that you can actually hang the thing on a bumper-mounted
bike rack...the frame is small enough that it only hangs out a little
on each side of my mini-van. I remain happy with this bent!

BentJay
GS GTO
Bikee E2

See my tour journal at: http://aroundthelake.crazyguyonabike.com

BentJay said:

My tandem is a Bikee E2. I rode GOBA 03 with my daughter. We had no
real difficulty in the week-long, 350 mile supported ride, although
Tom is right: the steering is odd but safe. The forks actually have
a negative bend. If you go this route, be careful to buy the last
version of the E2 with a 32 spoke front wheel, Avid disc brakes and
other improvements that make this bent bulletproof. One great
advantage is that you can actually hang the thing on a bumper-mounted
bike rack...the frame is small enough that it only hangs out a little
on each side of my mini-van. I remain happy with this bent!

Jay,

How much do you and your daughter weigh, and how long are her legs? The
reason I ask is that the handling of the E2 changes as the weight
distribution moves rearwards - the difference between riding solo and
with a stoker is dramatic. Riding with a child stoker may be quite
different than riding with an adult stoker. Have you ridden the E2 with
an adult stoker?

--
Tom Sherman - Greater QCA

hire a frame builder to do a GS Clone and if feeling guilty add some
original Greenspeed parts/

"Jim Kellett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm just starting to browse around for a (hopefully) used 'bent tandem,
available "on the East coast". Naturally, I'd prefer a really cheap Rans
Screamer <gr> . .. but, frankly, I'm not sure we're going to get on OR
just
how serious the missus is about stoking. The only 'bent tandems I've
RIDDEN
are the Screamer, Longwood (I think that's now called a Longbike, right?)
and a Vision - - - but I'm flexible.

So, anyone out there with one storing dust in his/her garage?

Jim Kellett
(GRR driver)

We have two recumbent tandems (neither for sale). We rode an upright tandem
for years but eventually we just had too much pain with back/neck/hand
problems. We got a Double Vision from the Hostel Shoppe in WI and have been
extremely pleased with the bike. The bike is no longer made, but only
because the company owners made some bad business decisions - no reflection
on the bike. There is no doubt in my mind that a tandem recumbent is the
best choice for many folks - this is a "must have" item for our marriage.
We also have a Bike Friday Double Day which is also discontinued - its only
value for us is the fact that it can be taken on an airplane - otherwise we
ride the Vision.

"Jim Kellett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm just starting to browse around for a (hopefully) used 'bent tandem,
available "on the East coast". Naturally, I'd prefer a really cheap Rans
Screamer <gr> . .. but, frankly, I'm not sure we're going to get on OR
just
how serious the missus is about stoking. The only 'bent tandems I've
RIDDEN
are the Screamer, Longwood (I think that's now called a Longbike, right?)
and a Vision - - - but I'm flexible.

So, anyone out there with one storing dust in his/her garage?

Jim Kellett
(GRR driver)

Tom,

I believe that the handling of all bikes change with changs in cg. I
ride our BikeE2 with my 3 year old grandson and my 6'4" daughter in law
and all sizes in between.

Try riding an upright tandem all day then ride around without the
stoker. Again a drastic change in handling.

Actually a heavy stoker should make the bike handle better. The main
problem with the BikeE2 is that a strong stoker will cause the frame to
squirm a bit.

OBTH We have 5 tandems, 3 of which are recumbents.

Quoted message said:

Jay,

How much do you and your daughter weigh, and how long are her legs? The
reason I ask is that the handling of the E2 changes as the weight
distribution moves rearwards - the difference between riding solo and
with a stoker is dramatic. Riding with a child stoker may be quite
different than riding with an adult stoker. Have you ridden the E2 with
an adult stoker?

--
The Pony Express, 20th SOS Udorn will never die:

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Base/6850/pony.html
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Base/6850/PonySong.html

A Gomer Gitter from 1967 to 1968, missions from Dien Bien Phu, to Phou
pha thi (LS-85), to the bolovens plateau.

See some Bikes At:

http://home.earthlink.net/~wm.patterson/index.html

Class and Helicopter

http://www.calpoly.edu/~wpatters/

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Bill Patterson said:

Tom,

I believe that the handling of all bikes change with changs in cg. I
ride our BikeE2 with my 3 year old grandson and my 6'4" daughter in law
and all sizes in between.

Try riding an upright tandem all day then ride around without the
stoker. Again a drastic change in handling.

Actually a heavy stoker should make the bike handle better. The main
problem with the BikeE2 is that a strong stoker will cause the frame to
squirm a bit.

OBTH We have 5 tandems, 3 of which are recumbents.

I believe I have had this discussion about the BikeE E2 before with
Prof. Patterson, so there is no point in flogging a deceased equine - we
must agree to disagree.

Yes, all bikes change handling with a change of CG, but the change in
the BikeE E2 is more radical than most. I have known experienced
recumbent tandem stokers who were caught out by the handling and almost
crashed the E2 trying to ride it. With a stoker, it is one of the two
recumbents whose handling made me want stop riding.

Others have found the handling acceptable, so I will stick to my advice
- test ride with a stoker of similar height and weight to your expected
largest stoker before purchase.

--
Tom Sherman - Greater QCA

Tom Sherman said:

Yes, all bikes change handling with a change of CG, but the change in
the BikeE E2 is more radical than most. I have known experienced
recumbent tandem stokers who were caught out by the handling and almost
crashed the E2 trying to ride it.

Why the stokers? Or did you mean the captains?

Quoted message said:

With a stoker, it is one of the two recumbents whose handling made me want
stop riding.

If you don't mind the question: What was the other one?

Kurt, who failed several times to ride a Flevo-style Airbike

Kurt Fischer said:

Tom Sherman said:

Yes, all bikes change handling with a change of CG, but the change in
the BikeE E2 is more radical than most. I have known experienced
recumbent tandem stokers who were caught out by the handling and almost
crashed the E2 trying to ride it.

Why the stokers? Or did you mean the captains?

Replace stoker with captain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

With a stoker, it is one of the two recumbents whose handling made me want
stop riding.

If you don't mind the question: What was the other one?

It was an Aerocycle that (in my opinion) had no directional stability
and steering that was way too responsive. (Note that prior to riding the
Aerocycle, I had extensively ridden bikes such as the RANS Rocket and
Lightning P-38 with no problem, and both these bikes are considered to
be quick handling).

--
Tom Sherman - Greater QCA

Tom Sherman said:

Bill Patterson said:

Tom,

I believe that the handling of all bikes change with changs in cg. I
ride our BikeE2 with my 3 year old grandson and my 6'4" daughter in
law and all sizes in between.

Try riding an upright tandem all day then ride around without the
stoker. Again a drastic change in handling.

Actually a heavy stoker should make the bike handle better. The main
problem with the BikeE2 is that a strong stoker will cause the frame
to squirm a bit.

OBTH We have 5 tandems, 3 of which are recumbents.

I believe I have had this discussion about the BikeE E2 before with
Prof. Patterson, so there is no point in flogging a deceased equine - we
must agree to disagree.

Yes, all bikes change handling with a change of CG, but the change in
the BikeE E2 is more radical than most. I have known experienced
recumbent tandem stokers who were caught out by the handling and almost
crashed the E2 trying to ride it. With a stoker, it is one of the two
recumbents whose handling made me want stop riding.

Others have found the handling acceptable, so I will stick to my advice
- test ride with a stoker of similar height and weight to your expected
largest stoker before purchase.

I have to respect Tom's experience. It does differ from mine and a small
group that I have talked too. However, I do have one friend that had
trouble riding the BikeE2 with his wife. My belief is that she moved
around alot. Maybe the BikeE2 is more susceptible to a stokers motions
than other tandems.

--
The Pony Express, 20th SOS Udorn will never die:

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Base/6850/pony.html
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Base/6850/PonySong.html

A Gomer Gitter from 1967 to 1968, missions from Dien Bien Phu, to Phou
pha thi (LS-85), to the bolovens plateau.

See some Bikes At:

http://home.earthlink.net/~wm.patterson/index.html

Class and Helicopter

http://www.calpoly.edu/~wpatters/

Reply to [email hidden]
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Tom,

You asked about my E2 stokers. My daughter, long-legged though she
is, is less than half my weight. She is really into riding the
rollers aggressively: fast going down and fast going up! No problems
with stability! My wife also stokes but, since she's got a bad knee
we don't ride aggressively. So: the question about handling with
different weight stokers? I can't answer that based on my own
experience. We're really not stressing the frame too much.

BentJay

See my tour journal at: http://aroundthelake.crazyguyonabike.com

Bill Patterson said:

Tom Sherman said:

Bill Patterson said:

Tom,

I believe that the handling of all bikes change with changs in cg. I
ride our BikeE2 with my 3 year old grandson and my 6'4" daughter in
law and all sizes in between.

Try riding an upright tandem all day then ride around without the
stoker. Again a drastic change in handling.

Actually a heavy stoker should make the bike handle better. The main
problem with the BikeE2 is that a strong stoker will cause the frame
to squirm a bit.

OBTH We have 5 tandems, 3 of which are recumbents.

I believe I have had this discussion about the BikeE E2 before with
Prof. Patterson, so there is no point in flogging a deceased equine -
we must agree to disagree.

Yes, all bikes change handling with a change of CG, but the change in
the BikeE E2 is more radical than most. I have known experienced
recumbent tandem stokers who were caught out by the handling and
almost crashed the E2 trying to ride it. With a stoker, it is one of
the two recumbents whose handling made me want stop riding.

Others have found the handling acceptable, so I will stick to my
advice - test ride with a stoker of similar height and weight to your
expected largest stoker before purchase.

I have to respect Tom's experience. It does differ from mine and a small
group that I have talked too. However, I do have one friend that had
trouble riding the BikeE2 with his wife. My belief is that she moved
around alot. Maybe the BikeE2 is more susceptible to a stokers motions
than other tandems.

One modification to the E2 that could be worthwhile would be to remove
the above seat stoker grips and replace them with underseat grips such
as those used on the RANS Screamer. This would provide LESS leverage for
the stoker to move the bike around.

--
Tom Sherman - Greater QCA

Tom Sherman said:

One modification to the E2 that could be worthwhile would be to remove
the above seat stoker grips and replace them with underseat grips such
as those used on the RANS Screamer. This would provide LESS leverage for
the stoker to move the bike around.

We remove the stoker handle bars and use a Nashbar clamp on bar end on
the seat frame. I would also add a wider front handle bar and a little
tiller as well. IT's too bad the BikeE2 is welded on.

We add the stoker handle bar when the youngsters ride in the back.

Have a good week.

Bill

--
The Pony Express, 20th SOS Udorn will never die:

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Base/6850/pony.html
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Base/6850/PonySong.html

A Gomer Gitter from 1967 to 1968, missions from Dien Bien Phu, to Phou
pha thi (LS-85), to the bolovens plateau.

See some Bikes At:

http://home.earthlink.net/~wm.patterson/index.html

Class and Helicopter

http://www.calpoly.edu/~wpatters/

Reply to [email hidden]
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"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

[......]

Quoted message said:

[1] Later, Ryan changed the name to Duplex under pressure from General
Motors' trademark lawyers.

Small point, but this isn't so from my recollection. As I understand it
General Motors never even knew about the "Fleetwood". It was Ryan's
attorney who thought it would be smart to change the name to avoid any
potential problems with GM. A defensive preemptive action so to speak.

I suspect the idea of having a giant corporation with hordes of trademark
lawyers descending on a small defenseless bicycle manufacturer is the more
appealing story to you politically, but in this case I don't think it's
factual.

It is a conflation of two related stories. Ryan Recumbent used an
interlocked RR logo too similar for Rolls Royce's liking. Mr. Ryan says in
an interview with RCN that the company sent him a cease and desist order.
The Fleetwood name was changed at the recommendation of the company' s
attorney based on this experience. http://ryanownersclub.com

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

[......]

Quoted message said:

[1] Later, Ryan changed the name to Duplex under pressure from General
Motors' trademark lawyers.

Small point, but this isn't so from my recollection. As I understand it
General Motors never even knew about the "Fleetwood". It was Ryan's
attorney who thought it would be smart to change the name to avoid any
potential problems with GM. A defensive preemptive action so to speak.

I suspect the idea of having a giant corporation with hordes of trademark
lawyers descending on a small defenseless bicycle manufacturer is the more
appealing story to you politically, but in this case I don't think it's
factual.

I own one of the early Ryans so the cease and desist order came to late to
keep the interlocked RR logo off my bike. When I ride I'm always hearing
people say, "Look there's a guy on a Rolls Royce".

The logo confuses the hell out of the public. :-)

"Doug Huffman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is a conflation of two related stories. Ryan Recumbent used an
interlocked RR logo too similar for Rolls Royce's liking. Mr. Ryan says
in an interview with RCN that the company sent him a cease and desist
order. The Fleetwood name was changed at the recommendation of the
company' s attorney based on this experience. http://ryanownersclub.com

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

[......]

Quoted message said:

[1] Later, Ryan changed the name to Duplex under pressure from General
Motors' trademark lawyers.

Small point, but this isn't so from my recollection. As I understand it
General Motors never even knew about the "Fleetwood". It was Ryan's
attorney who thought it would be smart to change the name to avoid any
potential problems with GM. A defensive preemptive action so to speak.

I suspect the idea of having a giant corporation with hordes of trademark
lawyers descending on a small defenseless bicycle manufacturer is the
more appealing story to you politically, but in this case I don't think
it's factual.

And I own one of the latest Ryan designs - built by Longbikes.

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I own one of the early Ryans so the cease and desist order came to late to
keep the interlocked RR logo off my bike. When I ride I'm always hearing
people say, "Look there's a guy on a Rolls Royce".

The logo confuses the hell out of the public. :-)

"Doug Huffman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is a conflation of two related stories. Ryan Recumbent used an
interlocked RR logo too similar for Rolls Royce's liking. Mr. Ryan says
in an interview with RCN that the company sent him a cease and desist
order. The Fleetwood name was changed at the recommendation of the
company' s attorney based on this experience. http://ryanownersclub.com

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

[......]
>
> [1] Later, Ryan changed the name to Duplex under pressure from General
> Motors' trademark lawyers.

Small point, but this isn't so from my recollection. As I understand it
General Motors never even knew about the "Fleetwood". It was Ryan's
attorney who thought it would be smart to change the name to avoid any
potential problems with GM. A defensive preemptive action so to speak.

I suspect the idea of having a giant corporation with hordes of
trademark lawyers descending on a small defenseless bicycle manufacturer
is the more appealing story to you politically, but in this case I don't
think it's factual.