The difference is *noticeable* More speed for same effort, or same speed for less effort. Pedalling is so much more efficient the difference is noticeable. You are effectively pulling on the upstroke as well as pushing on the downstroke, so you don't have to push as hard on the downstroke. Going uphill becomes easier - ntoiceably so. Clipping in and out qucikly becomes second nature. Oh - and prior to using clipless, I had aching knees & calves.. not any more. I would not willingly go back to 'normal' pedals. And I'm a middle-aged 'pootler' getting benefit from using clipless - you really don't have to be a speed freak to get benefit from them.
Your experience isn't typical for rider with more developed leg muscles. When you "pull up" you're using the leg "flexors" which are much weaker than leg "extensors". When your extensors get strong enough, they'll use all of your cardio-vascular capacity by themselves, so there isn't any gain by adding the flexors, except for short (anaerobic) efforts.
Most low-end upright bicycles are sold with platform pedals on the assumption that an experienced rider
I'm assuming you mean "INexperienced rider" there, right?
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may not be comfortable with using foot retention systems (e.g. "clipless", Power Grips, clips and straps).
Yeah, I don't think I like 'em myself, and I'm fairly hard-core for twenty-some-odd years now (I say "fairly" 'cause I put in the mileage and hills and weather conditions, but don't know nothing about Rohloff hubs, Rotor cranks, clipless pedals, etc. -- Grip Shift was a revolution for me!).
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Higher end uprights are generally sold without pedals with the assumption that the buyers will be experienced riders with established preferences for a particular pedal type.
I actually traded in the pedals that came with my Trek 1000c for regular ones!
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The recumbent industry has generally taken the former option, even on higher end bikes. The fact that many recumbents come equipped with a set of platform pedals that cost the manufacturer very little should not be seen as an endorsement for the general use on recumbents other than those with low bottom brackets intended for short and/or casual riding.
So...are my knees gonna get messed up or something if I don't use clipless pedals? Just what are they, um, good for? Is this the equivalent of wearing spandex -- no big deal -- or more like the difference between a 'bent and an upwrong -- like night and day??
First let us make clear what we are talking about. Are you asking why many riders prefer using clip-less pedals? Or are you asking why you might consider using clip-less pedals? Since you have not used them, and are disinclined to try them, and since you choose a derisive tone to ask; I think you are attempting to initiate a heated discussion where there is no controversy. This matter has been discussed at length in r.b.t. as you could discover for yourself. You might remove r.b.t from the Newsgroups: header.
When I rode a bent for about 4 months I rode a Bacchetta Corsa. I live in a hilly geography and starting the sucker from a dead stop on any hill was an adventure. My first priority was to find a set of pedals that was easy to get into no matter what was going on in my head or with the terrain. The advice was to go for two sided something or others with a lot of float. I went for Bebops in stainless steel and they worked remarkably well. Those cleats could find those pedals no matter what I looked like flailing to find those pedals. Alas, in the end, having my feet in front of my face all the time was not the posture for me, but the pedals were da bomb. Another day there will be a less radical bent in my life I am certain of that.
"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Your experience isn't typical for rider with more developed leg muscles. When you "pull up" you're using the leg "flexors" which are much weaker than leg "extensors". When your extensors get strong enough, they'll use all of your cardio-vascular capacity by themselves, so there isn't any gain by adding the flexors, except for short (anaerobic) efforts.
You've seen my legs, then?
And when my extensors use all of my cardiovascular capacity, will I black out from lack of cardiovascular capacity to my brain?
all of your cardio-vascular capacity by themselves, so there isn't any gain by adding the flexors, except for short (anaerobic) efforts.
Or "small hills", as we call them here... ;-)
For "large hills" being clipped in makes it easier to spin up, which is a much better way on a 'bent, so you're still winning.
Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Your experience isn't typical for rider with more developed leg muscles. When you "pull up" you're using the leg "flexors" which are much weaker than leg "extensors". When your extensors get strong enough, they'll use all of your cardio-vascular capacity by themselves, so there isn't any gain by adding the flexors, except for short (anaerobic) efforts.
You've seen my legs, then?
And when my extensors use all of my cardiovascular capacity, will I black out from lack of cardiovascular capacity to my brain?
Cheers, in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way, helen s
I think it's pretty uncommon to black out from anaerobic exertion (likely severe evolutionary penalty to passing out when running from the saber tooth). I can push myself into some symptoms of low brain oxygen such as tunnel and monochromatic vision (on rare heroic occasions, but also sometimes when just rising from the sofa). When I'm doing a long sustained effort that I want to be right at my aerobic maximum, I can judge it accurately by the slight numbness I get in my upper lip, another symptom I think of blood being diverted from my face.
If you get better *sustained* performance when recruiting extra leg muscles, then you have either girly legs or a lion's heart -- I couldn't guess with certainty, but I am certain that your legs aren't taxing your C-V system as much as mine are.
When I rode a bent for about 4 months I rode a Bacchetta Corsa. I live in a hilly geography and starting the sucker from a dead stop on any hill was an adventure. My first priority was to find a set of pedals that was easy to get into no matter what was going on in my head or with the terrain. The advice was to go for two sided something or others with a lot of float. I went for Bebops in stainless steel and they worked remarkably well. Those cleats could find those pedals no matter what I looked like flailing to find those pedals. Alas, in the end, having my feet in front of my face all the time was not the posture for me, but the pedals were da bomb. Another day there will be a less radical bent in my life I am certain of that.
Curious...whatsamatta with the Corsa, exactly? Like, are you really tall or overweight or something?
First let us make clear what we are talking about. Are you asking why many riders prefer using clip-less pedals? Or are you asking why you might consider using clip-less pedals? Since you have not used them, and are disinclined to try them, and since you choose a derisive tone to ask; I think you are attempting to initiate a heated discussion where there is no controversy. This matter has been discussed at length in r.b.t. as you could discover for yourself. You might remove r.b.t from the Newsgroups: header.
-- Michael Press
In some 25 posts to this thread, yours is the only one where things approach "heated." Since I have no luck with search engines -- and current information is better than anything possibly dated in any case -- I suggest you exercise extreme discretion in reading usenet.
1. feet in the air 2. starting on inclines 3. transporting 4. climbing in general 5. never got comfortable descending fast on twisty roads 6. shifting a triple while ascending
I think it's pretty uncommon to black out from anaerobic exertion (likely severe evolutionary penalty to passing out when running from the saber tooth). I can push myself into some symptoms of low brain oxygen such as tunnel and monochromatic vision (on rare heroic occasions, but also sometimes when just rising from the sofa). When I'm doing a long sustained effort that I want to be right at my aerobic maximum, I can judge it accurately by the slight numbness I get in my upper lip, another symptom I think of blood being diverted from my face.
<SNIP>
I was always a crazy kid...when gramps told me not to cut myself, I did it just to see what would happen...ditto with matches, bug spray (!!!), and holding one's breath...I held it and the next thing I knew I woke up on the floor....
Interestingly enough, I've never blacked out from anything without meaning to be...as Army Infantry likes to say, "at first you'll think you're going to die, then you'll wish you *could* die, then you'll know you can NEVER die."
On 21 Feb 2006 01:18:01 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>
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So...are my knees gonna get messed up or something if I don't use clipless pedals? Just what are they, um, good for? Is this the equivalent of wearing spandex -- no big deal -- or more like the difference between a 'bent and an upwrong -- like night and day??
I ride a Tour Easy, a fairly upright LWB recumbent. It came with platform pedals and toe clips. After riding the stock pedals for a couple of years I went with clipless for a while, and really did like it at first. After three months or so it seemed that my knees were about to start complaining from the lack of lateral motion. My size 14's dont fit far enough into most toe clip cages, so I decided to try a pair of Power Grips.
On a more laid back recumbent, and maybe especially on some of the really low models having your feet actually locked to the pedal might save you from some very painful leg suck incidents.
