recommendations: smaller framed bike

Will H said:

I'm researching decent bikes for a friend of mine. She is 160cm (about 5'3"😉
tall and probably needs a 47cm frame.

Geometries get a bit strange with smaller frames so I wondered whether
anyone could recommend a frame builder or an off the peg brand which would
be appropriate. Any other hints and tips would be appreciated as the
components (cranks, brakes etc) will have to be smaller as well.

Price range is between £400 and £800 (ish)

The best we've found so far is the Mercian Compact
http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_compact.html

Something with 26" wheels is good. There are 1" slick tyres available
now, so you don't have to have a mountain bike even if you have mountain
bike wheels. Try www.sjscycles.com and look at the Sherpa. You can
specify dropped bars or straight bars.

Will H said:

I'm researching decent bikes for a friend of mine. She is 160cm (about 5'3"😉
tall and probably needs a 47cm frame.

Geometries get a bit strange with smaller frames so I wondered whether
anyone could recommend a frame builder or an off the peg brand which would
be appropriate. Any other hints and tips would be appreciated as the
components (cranks, brakes etc) will have to be smaller as well.

Price range is between £400 and £800 (ish)

The best we've found so far is the Mercian Compact
http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_compact.html

Thanks for the help
W

Just as an aside, I'm *just* 5'4 and ride a (I think) 51cm frame. It's
slightly too big on the reach to the bars along the top tube, but fine
for the height and standover.

I've changed a lot of stuff to get it to fit better, and really would
only now change the length of the top tube, which entails a new frame,
so isn't happening any time soon - the rest of the size suits me fine now.

I pondered on crank length, but what it is (170? 175?) feels fine to me,
and I'm conscious that shortening it would mean I'd have to raise the
seat further, and that'd mean I'd not get tiptoe down to the ground when
stopped (a requirement for me still).

Look at the bars - get narrow ones to suit her shoulder width - I found
it a lot easier to live with the long top tube once the bars weren't
quite so wide and putting my arms out in a triangle!

My bike also has 700C wheels, and there can be an issue with toe overlap
in certain circumstances on the front wheel. I'd say the 700C wheels
are the direct cause of the longer top tube, so you might find for a
smaller frame you'd have to look at the 26" wheels instead - then again,
this might be the standard for anything of 47cm sizing.

Brake levers (or STI shifters - great invention) might be worth
comparing the shimano vs campag - I have shimano and with small fingers
find it difficult sometimes to apply sufficient force when I'm on the
hoods, I think just due to the reach of fingers needed more than
anything else. I don't know if either of them make smaller than the
other, or if there are women specific brake levers, if she'd be happy
with shifters on downtubes etc. Me, it's a requirement they be STI ;-)

Glad she's looking at the fitting of it - if I could go back and do it
again, much as I love my bike, I think I'd get a frame built up for me
that was a little smaller to start with than the one I have (Dawes Audax
51cm). I'd have not spent time and money changing lots of bits to
improve the fit that way!

--

Velvet

The Trek WSD bikes are much loved in this household. The 47cm frame
uses 650c wheels resulting in a very natural geometry. The 47cm should
also come with shorter (165) cranks, though you need to check that.

Will H said:

I'm researching decent bikes for a friend of mine. She is 160cm (about 5'3"😉
tall and probably needs a 47cm frame.

Geometries get a bit strange with smaller frames so I wondered whether
anyone could recommend a frame builder or an off the peg brand which would
be appropriate. Any other hints and tips would be appreciated as the
components (cranks, brakes etc) will have to be smaller as well.

Price range is between £400 and £800 (ish)

The best we've found so far is the Mercian Compact
http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_compact.html

Thanks for the help
W

Will H said:

I'm researching decent bikes for a friend of mine. She is 160cm (about 5'3"😉
tall and probably needs a 47cm frame.

Geometries get a bit strange with smaller frames so I wondered whether
anyone could recommend a frame builder or an off the peg brand which would
be appropriate. Any other hints and tips would be appreciated as the
components (cranks, brakes etc) will have to be smaller as well.

You can buy "decent bikes" that don't have diamond frames. Moultons
seem to scale very well to different sizes of rider, and I'd imagine
something like a Bike Friday would as well.
Or you could do her a /real/ favour and line her up with a recumbent.
The Toxy SR and Nazca Fiero XS are specifically designed for shorter
riders, and I think Optima do a version of the Dolphin designed for
shorter folk. Usual problem with 'bents is they cost a packet, but if
you're looking at a Mercian then clearly you're willing to spend a few bob!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

thanks to all of you for your responses to my enquiry. Very excellent and
useful.

In summary:
Mercian (Steel; £480 frame only; £1040 built up with Campag Veloce?)
http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_compact.html

SJS Sherpa (Steel; £400 frame only; £699 built up with Shiman Deore/LX)
http://www.sjscycles.com/thorn/sherpa/sherpa.htm

Trek 1500 WSD (Aluminium; £999 built up with Shimano 105)
http://www.trekbike.co.uk/bikes/2004/road/wsd/1500WSD.php

A folding bike Moulton/Brompton/Bike Friday....
Bromptons are about £600; Moultons about £3400 (::gasps:: I must be wrong!);
Bike Friday are apparently priceless.
- The Bike Fridays look the business. Their site is down at the moment, so
no further info.
- I've found that Bromptons are good, but the geometry is too much like a
shopper bike and not good for journeys over a couple of miles (sorry to the
legions of Brompton enthusiasts who'll take issue with this)
- A recumbent is probably a step too far for now.

The components will just have to be tried and tested.

ta
Will

Will H said:

A folding bike Moulton/Brompton/Bike Friday....

Moultons and BFs aren't really folders, more they break down for easier=20
transport when required. Folding a Moulton (or more accurately=20
disassembling it) will take you a few minutes with tools, where a=20
Brompton is a 15 second job with no tools. That a Moulton comes apart=20
is more an incidental benefit than a primary design goal, I think.
The BF is somewhere between the two: it's designed to come apart for=20
travel from the ground up, but is a Serious Piece of Kit capable of real =

performance from models like the Pocket Rocket.

Quoted message said:

Bromptons are about =A3600; Moultons about =A33400 (::gasps:: I must be=

wrong!);

Moultons come in various flavours. A New Series Speed in stainless=20
steel will actually set you back about =A35K (yes, really) but on the=20
other hand something like the Moulton R18 from Pashley is =A3995. AMs=20
somewhere in between, the new Bridgestone Moulton is =A31650.

Quoted message said:

Bike Friday are apparently priceless.
- The Bike Fridays look the business. Their site is down at the moment=

, so

Quoted message said:

no further info.

Not cheap, but reckoned to be good. Though a related possibility in the =

UK for a performance machine with smaller wheels that just happens to=20
fit into a suitcase and doesn't have a diamond frame is the Airnimal.

Quoted message said:

- I've found that Bromptons are good, but the geometry is too much lik=

e a

Quoted message said:

shopper bike and not good for journeys over a couple of miles (sorry to=

the

Quoted message said:

legions of Brompton enthusiasts who'll take issue with this)

I won't take issue, I think for what your looking for a Brompton is the=20
Wrong Thing: it is a convenient utility machine, and though you /can/ go =

far on them they're certainly not ideal for the job. But do have a look =

at, say, the Birdy Black, which weighs under 10 Kg, has full suspension=20
and has a riding position just like a "normal" bike. It folds up=20
reasonably small as well.

Quoted message said:

- A recumbent is probably a step too far for now.
The components will just have to be tried and tested.

My recumbent uses Shimano Deore transmission, a SRAM chain and Time ATAC =

pedals. Aren't they "tried and tested"?

But why "probably a step too far for now"? If you're spending Serious=20
Money on a serious bike it's daft not to try a reasonable spread before=20
spending. If she decides in 2 years that a recumbent would be much=20
better then you've just burned a grand or so on a bike that's left for=20
dead in a couple of years. If she tries one and isn't convinced then=20
don't get one: that's much better reasoning than assuming it's "probably =

a step too far for now".
Roos decided to splurge on a Serious Bike recently. Given a budget of a =

couple of grand with a lifetime of riding fairly good diamond frame=20
bikes as her experience, she's bought a recumbent (and she doesn't even=20
have the size problems diamonds can bring to shorter people to worry=20
about). At least try before dismissing them with FUD arguments.

Pete.
--=20
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Hi, thanks for the detailed response. I've added some comments below...

Quoted message said:

Moultons and BFs aren't really folders, more they break down for easier
transport when required.

fair point. BFs look marvellous as well.

Quoted message said:

I won't take issue, I think for what your looking for a Brompton is the
Wrong Thing: it is a convenient utility machine, and though you /can/ go
far on them they're certainly not ideal for the job.

agreed. Bromptons have turned commuting on its head, but I personally
wouldn't use them for a fun/fast ride.

Quoted message said:

Birdy Black, which weighs under 10 Kg, has full suspension
and has a riding position just like a "normal" bike. It folds up
reasonably small as well.

I have bike love <3

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- A recumbent is probably a step too far for now.
The components will just have to be tried and tested.

My recumbent uses Shimano Deore transmission, a SRAM chain and Time ATAC
pedals. Aren't they "tried and tested"?

I was thinking about fit rather than quality but it was a bit ambiguous

Quoted message said:

But why "probably a step too far for now"? If you're spending Serious
Money on a serious bike it's daft not to try a reasonable spread before
spending. If she decides in 2 years that a recumbent would be much
better then you've just burned a grand or so on a bike that's left for
dead in a couple of years. If she tries one and isn't convinced then
don't get one: that's much better reasoning than assuming it's "probably
a step too far for now".

Fair point. I'll discuss and test.

Peter Clinch said:

Will H said:

A folding bike Moulton/Brompton/Bike Friday....

Moultons and BFs aren't really folders, more they break down for easier
transport when required. ....
The BF is somewhere between the two: it's designed to come apart for
travel from the ground up, but is a Serious Piece of Kit capable of real
performance from models like the Pocket Rocket.

Bike Fridays *are* folders although the stem detaches.
I have a Pocket Rocket and it folds down in about two minutes by undoing
two q/r's in about two minutes. it really is a sporty machine but also
has excellent luggage capacity and can take panniers both front and
rear. However it is a fairly ungainly package when folded and really
needs to be bagged which takes another two or three minutes.
Of course it can be taken apart - to fit its trailer suitcase - but that
takes a lot longer.

The BF is my preferred bike when travelling using trains when I have a
long ride at either end. If I am doing short journeys (no more than 5
miles) then the Brompton wins hands down for folding and convenience.

John B

Will H said:

I'm researching decent bikes for a friend of mine. She is 160cm (about 5'3"😉
tall and probably needs a 47cm frame.

Geometries get a bit strange with smaller frames so I wondered whether
anyone could recommend a frame builder or an off the peg brand which would
be appropriate. Any other hints and tips would be appreciated as the
components (cranks, brakes etc) will have to be smaller as well.

Price range is between £400 and £800 (ish)

I'm smaller than your friend, about 5' 1" with proportionately short legs.
My experience is that at the extremes, nominal frame size is a poor guide to
whether a bike will fit. When looking for an entry level MTB I tried 14"
frames from several manufacturers. The Marin 14" was much too big - I
couldn't even straddle the cross bar. The superficially similar looking
Specialised had loads of room above the cross bar. A Kona from one year was
too big, a Kona from about four years later fit well. She really needs to
try each bike, which unfortunately will involve lots of hunting to find a
retailer with the smaller sizes in stock.

When I wanted a tourer with 700C wheels, there just wasn't an off the peg
frame available. I ended up having one made by Malc Cowle:
http://www.withingtoncycles.co.uk/malc_cowle.php
The bike I got is out of your price range, but I did choose a lot of
expensive bits, so don't dismiss this option. The two things that I love on
this bike and miss on the MTB are narrow handlebars and short cranks.
--
Being one man too many, Ensign Extra is eaten by the alien
Steph Peters delete invalid from [email hidden]
Tatting, lace & stitching page <http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/index.htm>