Recommendations for MTB

On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:42:51 +0100, Rob <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

Firstly, I know £200 is peanuts to a serious biker. Probably wouldn't
buy a decent fork or cassette, whatever that is. Anyway it's what I
want to spend on a lady's MTB. It's only going to be used once a week
or fortnight - on roads and cycle paths.

Look for end-of-year bargains from decent manufacturers, or
lightly-used second-hand. Fornt sus, yes, reas sus NO!
NONONONONONONONO! A good rear suspension boinger alone is more money
than you are going to spend on the whole bike. Any full-sus bike for
£200 requires the use of a ten-foot barge pole.

Quoted message said:

<http://www.sterlinghouse.co.uk/Default.asp?Action=ViewProduct&ID=7243>
£200 complete with all the bits. What's wrong with it?

Sterling House. It will be made largely of cheese.

You can buy Dawes, Trek, Giant, that sort of thing, with fair
confidence. You can buy from the Edinburgh Bicycle Co-Operative with
confidence and a clear Socialist conscience (well, maybe).

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Rob said:

Firstly, I know £200 is peanuts to a serious biker. Probably wouldn't
buy a decent fork or cassette, whatever that is. Anyway it's what I
want to spend on a lady's MTB. It's only going to be used once a week
or fortnight - on roads and cycle paths.

I know I won't get anything decent with suspension for that price, but
I want suspension.

I realise that it's best to go to a bike shop and try loads. However I
thought online I am more likely to get a better model for that price

The "lady" in question is 5'9", and we've settled on a frame size of
ideally 18", but reckon 17-19" will do.

I've had a good google on previous recommendations in this group, and
my head is spinning faster than my old chopper's front wheel. So I
suppose I'd like you to bandy a few makes/models at me, and perhaps an
online shop, or even a real one in the Herts/Beds area.

If I *do* buy it online, I realise that setting it up is important -
can I do this myself or will a shop do this for a charge with a bike
they don't sell?

Thoughts also on this:

<http://www.sterlinghouse.co.uk/Default.asp?Action=ViewProduct&ID=7243>

£200 complete with all the bits. What's wrong with it?

OK enough already

Have a good google for stock left over from last year. There's plenty of
stuff that sold at decent money for a lot less, and bikes don't exactly leap
ahead in performance each year.

in message <[email hidden]>, Rob

(') said:

Firstly, I know £200 is peanuts to a serious biker. Probably wouldn't
buy a decent fork or cassette, whatever that is. Anyway it's what I
want to spend on a lady's MTB. It's only going to be used once a week
or fortnight - on roads and cycle paths.

I know I won't get anything decent with suspension for that price, but
I want suspension.

Don't. Really. You'll get a much better bike at that price without, and
the suspension you'll get at that price won't do anything useful.

My niece recently bought an Edinburgh Bicycle Coast for about £190, it's
a really nice bike. This afternoon in my LBS I saw an elderly lady take
delivery of a Claud Butler Classic for £199, and that seemed to me to
be a lot of bike for the money. After she'd left I commented on the
fact to the LBS owner, and he said he thought those were very good
value for money at present. Slightly sit-up-and-beg riding position,
but you even get a good rack thrown in at that price. Also from Claud
Butler at the same price, the Urban 100 looks not a bad bike, with more
of a cyclists riding position.

Quoted message said:

I've had a good google on previous recommendations in this group, and
my head is spinning faster than my old chopper's front wheel. So I
suppose I'd like you to bandy a few makes/models at me, and perhaps an
online shop, or even a real one in the Herts/Beds area.

Quoted message said:

If I *do* buy it online, I realise that setting it up is important -
can I do this myself or will a shop do this for a charge with a bike
they don't sell?

Your LBS will do it for free for bikes they _do_ sell, and as I've
indicated above you can get some reasonable bikes from your LBS at that
budget.

Quoted message said:

Thoughts also on this:

<http://www.sterlinghouse.co.uk/Default.asp?Action=ViewProduct&ID=7243>

Quoted message said:

£200 complete with all the bits. What's wrong with it?

OK, let's start with that appalling rear suspension geometry. The design
is copied loosely from the Cannondale Flying V, but the Flying V
critically has the pivot in line with the top of the middle chainring.
This means that bobbing under power is limited when on the middle
chainring and not too bad on the other two. The Silver Fox has the
pivot only just above the bottom bracket, so it's going to bob like
crazy - desperately inefficient and energy sapping, especially on the
road. This is made worse by the primitive rear suspension unit, which
doesn't have adjustable spring rate and won't have adjustable damping,
so it's impossible to set it up for the weight of the rider. Now,
observe the juxtaposition of the bottom of the seatpost with the top of
the front tube of the swing arm. Yup, right first time. They're going
to foul each other unless the rider is tall.

Next, consider the weight. The reason that Cannondale replaced the
Flying V with the Jekyll and have since replaced the relatively complex
Jekyll design with the much simpler Prophet is that the cantilevered
arm holding the seatpost needs to be really strong - it's supporting
the whole of the rider's weight on the end of an arm which isn't
triangulated at all. Even Cannondale, on bikes costing upwards of
£2,000, couldn't make that design light, so they evolved on to designs
which triangulate the thrust of the seatpost down to the bottom
bracket.

Cheaply made of unbutted aluminium that's got to be terrifyingly heavy
or frighteningly fragile or both.

Finally, while that spring-over-elastomer suspension unit is rubbish
anyway, it's going to be far worse rubbish when it's been sprayed with
dirty water coming straight off the rear wheel. Because it has
absolutely no protection. So it's pretty rapidly going to corrode and
stop working smoothly.

In summary, this bike will bob, which saps the rider's energy and makes
it much harder to pedal; it's very heavy, and that weight has to be
hauled up every little hill. It has a lot of complex parts which are
cheaply made and will require a lot of regular maintenance if they are
to work (or, more probably, aren't designed to be serviced and will
have to be replaced). It isn't a bargain at all.

Last Sunday I went for a club run with a new cycle club, and we had
riders of all abilities on all sorts of bikes. We went at a slow pace
but one person really struggled: a fit young man on an over-heavy
mountain bike. Around him old people, children, and very unfit people
(one recovering from a brain tumour) were manging just fine.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Error 1109: There is no message for this error

Quoted message said:

Thoughts also on this:

<http://www.sterlinghouse.co.uk/Default.asp?Action=ViewProduct&ID=7243>

£200 complete with all the bits. What's wrong with it?

Its got a very low end economy gear system plus very poor front
suspension.

Rob said:

I want suspension.

Why?

If it's because you think suspension will provide any worthwhile benefit
when riding on roads and cycle paths, you are mistaken. You really don't
need suspension for that type of riding. Just because everyone else does
it, doesn't make it right.

If it's for pose value, you won't get much of that on a £200 bike.

If you just want suspension for the sake of having it, go for it - who
am I to tell you you're wasting your money?

d.

"Rob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Firstly, I know £200 is peanuts to a serious biker. Probably wouldn't
buy a decent fork or cassette, whatever that is. Anyway it's what I
want to spend on a lady's MTB. It's only going to be used once a week
or fortnight - on roads and cycle paths.

I know I won't get anything decent with suspension for that price, but
I want suspension.

I realise that it's best to go to a bike shop and try loads. However I
thought online I am more likely to get a better model for that price

The "lady" in question is 5'9", and we've settled on a frame size of
ideally 18", but reckon 17-19" will do.

I've had a good google on previous recommendations in this group, and
my head is spinning faster than my old chopper's front wheel. So I
suppose I'd like you to bandy a few makes/models at me, and perhaps an
online shop, or even a real one in the Herts/Beds area.

If I *do* buy it online, I realise that setting it up is important -
can I do this myself or will a shop do this for a charge with a bike
they don't sell?

Thoughts also on this:

<http://www.sterlinghouse.co.uk/Default.asp?Action=ViewProduct&ID=7243>

£200 complete with all the bits. What's wrong with it?

OK enough already

thanks
-Rob

I have returned to cycling after 20 odd years, bought a £160 full suspension
bike for £40 nearly new Reflex Boss 21 a cheap club book thing.
I found MTB tyres have huge drag on the road so replaced with slick MTB
training tyres £13 each. Then found gears too low, replaced front gear with
52 tooth, it was 48 this was free from a friend after a bit of scrounging.
Next was a comfy seat off of a roadbike from another friend.
Last was a little luxury, a 20 function cycle computer from Aldi £3.99.
Really nice ride low drag and still capable of going off road if not too
extreme.

Your thoughts? Less than £200 a lot less.

Rob <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Firstly, I know £200 is peanuts to a serious biker. Probably wouldn't
buy a decent fork or cassette, whatever that is. Anyway it's what I
want to spend on a lady's MTB. It's only going to be used once a week
or fortnight - on roads and cycle paths.

You might *just* be able to get a decent cassette for less than £200.

:-)

Quoted message said:

I know I won't get anything decent with suspension for that price, but
I want suspension.

If you know you're going to get rubbish at that price, and are quite happy
with that idea, then go for it.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Thoughts also on this:

<http://www.sterlinghouse.co.uk/Default.asp?Action=ViewProduct&ID=7243>

£200 complete with all the bits. What's wrong with it?

Plenty, as has already been pointed out.

For less than £200, why not take a look at
http://www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp?style=4474

No suspension, but looks loads better than the Sterling House bike. And its
sold by Evans, who seem to have branches all over the place.

--
Chris

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:12:52 +0100, davek <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Why?

If it's because you think suspension will provide any worthwhile benefit
when riding on roads and cycle paths, you are mistaken. You really don't
need suspension for that type of riding. Just because everyone else does
it, doesn't make it right.

Thanks for the recommendations so far.....the reason I think
suspension is required is that most of the cycling is going to be done
on a very bumpy cycle track. From personal experience I know that it's
more comfortable with front suspension, even if it's not the best.

Anyway plenty of food for thought - we're leaning towards a Giant
model...will checkout the local shops to see if they can match this
kind of price:
<http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/detail.cfm?ID=19504>

Any desperate reasons why I should invest another £80 on the
Specialized Hardrock?

cheers
-Rob

PS Thanks to Simon for a spectacular ripping apart of the
Sterlinghouse one. I now wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot set of
forks. You are the Thierry Henry of this group, obviously.

in message <[email hidden]>, Rob

(') said:

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 14:12:52 +0100, davek <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Why?

If it's because you think suspension will provide any worthwhile
benefit when riding on roads and cycle paths, you are mistaken. You
really don't need suspension for that type of riding. Just because
everyone else does it, doesn't make it right.

Thanks for the recommendations so far.....the reason I think
suspension is required is that most of the cycling is going to be done
on a very bumpy cycle track. From personal experience I know that it's
more comfortable with front suspension, even if it's not the best.

Anyway plenty of food for thought - we're leaning towards a Giant
model...will checkout the local shops to see if they can match this
kind of price:
<http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/detail.cfm?ID=19504>

The suspension on this appears to be very short travel elastomer.
Elastomer is basically plastic foam. It's less springy in very cold
weather and the springyness wears out over a couple of years.

Quoted message said:

Any desperate reasons why I should invest another £80 on the
Specialized Hardrock?

The fork is a little better but not a lot. The coil spring will keep on
springing for years, the elastomer damping will wear out after a while
(see above). You still need to ensure the bushes stay clean and well
lubricated, otherwise the fork will rapidly stop moving freely. Frankly
I doubt this is enough difference to be worth eighty quid, particularly
if the routes you will use are not especially challenging.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
/-\ You have discovered a security flaw in a Microsoft product. You
|-| can report this issue to our security tesm. Would you like to
| | * Be completely ignored (default)?
| | * Receive a form email full of platitudes about how much we care?
\_/ * Spend hours helping us fix this problem for free?

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 19:35:02 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The fork is a little better but not a lot. The coil spring will keep on
springing for years, the elastomer damping will wear out after a while
(see above). You still need to ensure the bushes stay clean and well
lubricated, otherwise the fork will rapidly stop moving freely.

Thanks. I shall go right now and tell the lady in question all that.
And see if she doesn't slap me.

Just after I've told her she needs a Giant bike.

This bike buying business can be hazardous.

rgds

-Rob

Quoted message said:

I have returned to cycling after 20 odd years, bought a £160 full suspension
bike for £40 nearly new Reflex Boss 21 a cheap club book thing.
I found MTB tyres have huge drag on the road so replaced with slick MTB
training tyres £13 each. Then found gears too low, replaced front gear with
52 tooth, it was 48 this was free from a friend after a bit of scrounging.
Next was a comfy seat off of a roadbike from another friend.
Last was a little luxury, a 20 function cycle computer from Aldi £3.99.
Really nice ride low drag and still capable of going off road if not too
extreme.

Your thoughts? Less than £200 a lot less.

A lot of people in this forum have a very low opinion of these type of
bikes. I'm guessing its a steel framed bike with shimano tourney
gears. So it will be heavier than the so called quality brand bikes
and the gearing may not be very robust and the front suspension a bit
poor. However I don't know the bike so could be well out on
specification. I assume its some sort of Y frame bike though.

Generally these type of Y frame bikes are made in mainland China (at
least the steel frame models) using low end components. They tend to
sport flashy paint jobs and have features tuned more to appealling to
the casual buyer rather than the dedicated cyclist. Features like non
hydraulic disc brakes don't seem to offer any additional braking over
V brakes and increase weight and running costs but look good in the
showroom/catalogue so they tend to be popular.

I went into Tesco's the other day and had a look at the Y frame dual
suspension bikes they sell for £99. I was rather concerned that with
the strength of just my arm and could fully compress the front of the
bike right down to the point of the bike just about leaning forward.
The rear suspension had adjustment and seemed much more usable. The
rear derailleur was very cheap looking. Personally if such a bike came
my way I'd rather remove the front suspension and have rigid forks and
fit a better rear derailleur. Might look a bit strange but I can't see
how the front suspension can have any benefit when its as soft, bouncy
and weak as that. Maybe I came across a bad example. As ever with
cheap dual suspension mountain bikes the lighter you are the less bad
they seem. The front suspension would probably seem perfectly usable
and good to someone less than 11 stone.

I do think you should try out a more basic rigid mountain bike as you
might be impressed with how the same amount of energy input into such
a bike makes you go much faster and manage hills much easier. You'll
also find you have a greater feeling of control with regards steering
and handling.

I can't fault what you paid for it though. Seems like a reasonable
spec for the money. I think even sterling house charge about a minimum
of £73 delivered for a dual suspension bike and that would be very
basic with only 18 gears.

Rob said:

we're leaning towards a Giant
model...will checkout the local shops to see if they can match this
kind of price:
<http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/detail.cfm?ID=19504>

Looks good to me. I have some friends who've just bought two Giants of
similar spec, they seem perfectly acceptable.

Quoted message said:

Any desperate reasons why I should invest another £80 on the
Specialized Hardrock?

Not as far as I can tell, but you'd need to ride them and see which fits
better and is more comfortable - that's the crucial thing.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

quote='Just zis Guy said:

we're leaning towards a Giant
model...will checkout the local shops to see if they can match this
kind of price:
<http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/detail.cfm?ID=19504>

Looks good to me. I have some friends who've just bought two Giants of
similar spec, they seem perfectly acceptable.

Quoted message said:

Any desperate reasons why I should invest another £80 on the
Specialized Hardrock?

Not as far as I can tell, but you'd need to ride them and see which fits
better and is more comfortable - that's the crucial thing.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University[/QUOTE]

I have recently purchased a Claud butler Stone River, two weeks ago. Have had it out every day over Friston Forest, South Downs and Forest Way etc. A good ride, lots of gear power, good quality shifters and cassette. Forks are cheaper but good for a while.
The frame is the same as is fitted on the same range up to £600 so I knew I could up the forks later on.
Really happy for my first MTB and days out with wife and kids. cost £220 but with a name I know and have ridden for years. Claudy^1 is now 25 years old and still going strong.
Sniper8052

Sniper8052 said:

I have recently purchased a Claud butler Stone River, two weeks ago.
Have had it out every day over Friston Forest, South Downs and Forest
Way etc. A good ride, lots of gear power, good quality shifters and
cassette. Forks are cheaper but good for a while.

Interesting - I remember Claud Butler racers from when I traded in my
Chopper for an Edwards....

Anyway a bit of research seems to show the Valetta being the women's
equivalent of the one you chose -
<http://www.falconcycles.co.uk/product.php?c.id=3&s.id=1&p.id=339>

What do you think of this one?

Once we have a couple of recommended models to try we may venture out
to a shop!

-Rob

in message <[email hidden]>, Rob

(') said:

Sniper8052 said:

I have recently purchased a Claud butler Stone River, two weeks ago.
Have had it out every day over Friston Forest, South Downs and Forest
Way etc. A good ride, lots of gear power, good quality shifters and
cassette. Forks are cheaper but good for a while.

Interesting - I remember Claud Butler racers from when I traded in my
Chopper for an Edwards....

Anyway a bit of research seems to show the Valetta being the women's
equivalent of the one you chose -
<http://www.falconcycles.co.uk/product.php?c.id=3&s.id=1&p.id=339>

What do you think of this one?

Claud Butler does seem to be a value-for-money brand at present. The
fork is a Suntour which is at least a name brand, and has a coil spring
with some degree of preload adjustment, so it can be to some extent
tuned for the rider. With 75mm travel it will cope with most 'natural'
singletrack (footpaths, sheep and deer paths). The Acera drivetrain is
not brilliant but will get you started and it could be upgraded over
time as components wear out. This looks a reasonable beginners off-road
bike.

As with all low cost bikes do check the weight before you buy, but if
its the same frame as some other Claud Butler mountain bikes I've seen
lately it won't be at all bad.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

There are no messages. The above is just a random stream of
bytes. Any opinion or meaning you find in it is your own creation.

"Martin Wilson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have returned to cycling after 20 odd years, bought a £160 full
suspension
bike for £40 nearly new Reflex Boss 21 a cheap club book thing.
I found MTB tyres have huge drag on the road so replaced with slick MTB
training tyres £13 each. Then found gears too low, replaced front gear
with
52 tooth, it was 48 this was free from a friend after a bit of scrounging.
Next was a comfy seat off of a roadbike from another friend.
Last was a little luxury, a 20 function cycle computer from Aldi £3.99.
Really nice ride low drag and still capable of going off road if not too
extreme.

Your thoughts? Less than £200 a lot less.

A lot of people in this forum have a very low opinion of these type of
bikes. I'm guessing its a steel framed bike with shimano tourney
gears. So it will be heavier than the so called quality brand bikes
and the gearing may not be very robust and the front suspension a bit
poor. However I don't know the bike so could be well out on
specification. I assume its some sort of Y frame bike though.

Generally these type of Y frame bikes are made in mainland China (at
least the steel frame models) using low end components. They tend to
sport flashy paint jobs and have features tuned more to appealling to
the casual buyer rather than the dedicated cyclist. Features like non
hydraulic disc brakes don't seem to offer any additional braking over
V brakes and increase weight and running costs but look good in the
showroom/catalogue so they tend to be popular.

I went into Tesco's the other day and had a look at the Y frame dual
suspension bikes they sell for £99. I was rather concerned that with
the strength of just my arm and could fully compress the front of the
bike right down to the point of the bike just about leaning forward.
The rear suspension had adjustment and seemed much more usable. The
rear derailleur was very cheap looking. Personally if such a bike came
my way I'd rather remove the front suspension and have rigid forks and
fit a better rear derailleur. Might look a bit strange but I can't see
how the front suspension can have any benefit when its as soft, bouncy
and weak as that. Maybe I came across a bad example. As ever with
cheap dual suspension mountain bikes the lighter you are the less bad
they seem. The front suspension would probably seem perfectly usable
and good to someone less than 11 stone.

I do think you should try out a more basic rigid mountain bike as you
might be impressed with how the same amount of energy input into such
a bike makes you go much faster and manage hills much easier. You'll
also find you have a greater feeling of control with regards steering
and handling.

I can't fault what you paid for it though. Seems like a reasonable
spec for the money. I think even sterling house charge about a minimum
of £73 delivered for a dual suspension bike and that would be very
basic with only 18 gears.

Well thanks for the input, I think your spot on with your diagnosis re-
china etc.

I'm about 11.5 stone and find the front does fully compress if ridden hard
:-( just snapped add on plastic mudguard on downtube back to drawing board)
but fine on road.
I've been looking on Ebay for another set of forks but do u think it's
really financially viable? just clocked 1.8 miles to work on mostly road, it
is a bonus being able to thunder up kerbs etc. without any damage though.
Wheels re 26" alloy which surprised me but as you state frame is fairly
heavy mild steel.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well thanks for the input, I think your spot on with your diagnosis re-
china etc.

I'm about 11.5 stone and find the front does fully compress if ridden hard
:-( just snapped add on plastic mudguard on downtube back to drawing board)
but fine on road.
I've been looking on Ebay for another set of forks but do u think it's
really financially viable? just clocked 1.8 miles to work on mostly road, it
is a bonus being able to thunder up kerbs etc. without any damage though.
Wheels re 26" alloy which surprised me but as you state frame is fairly
heavy mild steel.

I don't actually know what the frame is made of. I'm guessing its high
tensile steel but could be aluminium. All wheel rims are alloy now it
seems as this makes them lighter, rust proof and work better with V
brakes because the alloy surface is rougher than steel rims. Makes the
bike much safer in the wet too.

You'd probably be able to get some rigid forks for less than a tenner
delivered but an upgrade with regards suspension forks may not be
financially viable. Mainly because decent suspension front forks are
normally £150-200 minimum new. Also some of these cheap chinese
mountain bikes use a threaded stem with only a 1" diameter where as
the more heavy duty and high quality shocks are 1 1/8" in diameter and
can use a different fitting. I'm only guessing here you'd have to
check the spec of your bike. But a lot of the chinese rebranded bikes
have a 1" steerer tube.

If you did go for rigid forks make sure you spend the time adjusting
saddle height, rear shock, handlebar angle and even tyre pressures to
make sure you get the handling and comfort you want. Effectively you'd
want to lower the tyre pressures and soften the rear shock settings
for off road use and the opposite for road use.

Here's the site for the manufacturer of low cost front suspension as
used on low price mountain bikes such as yours (probably). Might be
useful for info.

http://www.hlcorp.com.tw/

Rob said:

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:00:13 +1000, Sniper8052

Quoted message said:

I have recently purchased a Claud butler Stone River, two weeks ago.
Have had it out every day over Friston Forest, South Downs and Forest
Way etc. A good ride, lots of gear power, good quality shifters and
cassette. Forks are cheaper but good for a while.

Interesting - I remember Claud Butler racers from when I traded in my
Chopper for an Edwards....

Anyway a bit of research seems to show the Valetta being the women's
equivalent of the one you chose -
<http://www.falconcycles.co.uk/product.php?c.id=3&s.id=1&p.id=339>

What do you think of this one?

Once we have a couple of recommended models to try we may venture out
to a shop!

-Rob

Looking at the specks I would tend to go for an 18" StoneRiver over this ladies version as you are not gaining anything in the frame other than it has a choice of smaller sizes. At 5'9" an 18 or even 20 inch frame would work.
The StoneRiver has an 18 inch frame but crucially has upgrade ability. The mountings are available for discs etc.
Looking at the chainset the Valetta has a steel rivited chainset from Suntour where the StoneRiver has a better quality set from a competion branded manufacturer, if you extend this to the BB things could get more interesting still. I suspect the Stone River will have a better BB to match the chainset.
Gears. StoneRiver has 24 over Valetta's 21 so you may see another fall off here over the Stone River.
On the whole I think the Stone River is probably the better bike and at a shade over £200 I think worth the money because of the high quality frame which is the same as used on their more expensive bikes and the likelyhood that the BB and Chainset are of a higher quality as they expect us males to do more thrashing and bashing than the 'ladies' (please don't flame me for that).
Sniper8052

🙂 🙂 🙂

As I know you've all been awaiting the outcome with interest(!), we
luckily found a local bike shop who were selling their 2004 Hardrock
Sports for £220, which seemed like too good a deal to miss, so we
didn't.

Thanks for all the advice

-Rob

right, sorry to interrupt, now you can get back to the
helmets...........