Recommend a racer?

blackhead said:

So what would you recommend in the following price ranges?

less than £200

Second hand

Quoted message said:

£200-300

Probably second hand, possibly bargains in last year's colours of lower
level racers.

Quoted message said:

£300-400

Something like EBC Revolution Continental (see
http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/)

Quoted message said:

£400-500

A lot more choice at this sort of level from many manufacturers, I'll
leave it to the roadies to point you at a sensible selection

Quoted message said:

And does the weight of a bicycle really matter when compared to that
of the rider?

5Lbs weight difference between two bikes isn't going to make much
difference if the rider is 168 Lbs is it?

You'd think not, but the best way to check is try it out. 5 lbs on a
good racer is the difference between very nice bits and also-ran bits,
and the very nice bits make the bike a pleasure to use which makes for
quite a real effective difference in some cases. But do try it out to
prove that to yourself. Either find a local shop which lets you do test
rides or wander along to a local club and ask to try a few out. You'll
probably find someone who can lend you their Good bike and their winter
hack and you'll see why they have a better one.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

blackhead writtificated

Quoted message said:

I just want
something that is enjoyable to ride, comfortable and reliable rather
than something to train me for the Tour De France.

First off, decide whether you want full-on road racing geometry, or a
slightly more relaxed 'sportive' type ride. These bikes don't have the
twitchy/responsive handling and a more comfortable position - basicaly
higher handlebars. Gearing is lower too - they assume you'll not be
wanting to do 35+ on the flat and God knows what down hill.

Quoted message said:

So what would you recommend in the following price ranges?

less than £200

Nothing/decent second hand. There are bikes at this price point but
they're all flawed in some way. If you know what you're doing then
second hand could be okay.

Quoted message said:

£200-300

Still nowt...

Quoted message said:

£300-400

Something from the last years Giant SCR range.

Quoted message said:

£400-500

Loads of stuff.

Quoted message said:

And does the weight of a bicycle really matter when compared to that
of the rider?

5Lbs weight difference between two bikes isn't going to make much
difference if the rider is 168 Lbs is it?

Yes and no. Little difference in your times/speed, but less weight makes
a massive difference to the *feel* of the bike. There's nothing like the
feel of a stiff, lighweight bike - you stamp you foot down and it
responds instantly, pushing forward and willing you to go faster. A
heavier bike just doesn't feel alive in the same way.

Pop into a decent shop and have a test ride of an entry level bike and
one costing £1,000 or so. Make sure the tyres are pumped to 100psi or
more and you'll see the difference yourself.

blackhead said:

And does the weight of a bicycle really matter when compared to that
of the rider?

5Lbs weight difference between two bikes isn't going to make much
difference if the rider is 168 Lbs is it?

Not much, no. But a sensitive 168 lb rider will notice it when accelerating
and climbing. It can be enough to make the bike more enjoyable, and long
rides a little bit easier.

However, you do have to pay a lot for this "little bit", so you're sensible
not to worry about the weight if you want to keep the budget low. The
rigidity of the frame is at least equally important, and you will get enough
of this with just about any inexpensive modern racer-style road bike.

Look for a bike with reasonably up-to-date components in order to make
obtaining spare parts no problem over the next few years.

Sorry I don't have any specific bike recommendations at the moment.

~PB

blackhead said:

After Googling "recommend bicycle uk" and coming up with nothing, I
hope you don't mind me posting this question here.

I'm after a racer, with curved handle bars and am curious as to what
you would recommend. I'm not after something that is £200 more than
something else simply because it's 1 pound lighter. I just want
something that is enjoyable to ride, comfortable and reliable rather
than something to train me for the Tour De France.

So what would you recommend in the following price ranges?

less than £200

£200-300

£300-400

£400-500

And does the weight of a bicycle really matter when compared to that
of the rider?

5Lbs weight difference between two bikes isn't going to make much
difference if the rider is 168 Lbs is it?

Thanks in advance.

I can't offer much expertise, but I second Peter's comments that
you're not going to find many of this season's models new for under
£300 (and under £400 will cut your choice down a lot).

In the £400-£500 ballpark, I'd like to recommend a Trek. I ride a
1000, which it seems they don't do any more (they call the entry level
model the 1.2). It's a sound, joyous bike to ride, and (except this
week, after I crashed last Thursday), has responsive and accurate
gears, chain and brakes. The one downside I've noticed is that the
gear cables stretch faster than I'd have anticipated, though I don't
know if that's me being heavy-handed with them.

I would NOT recommend a Raleigh; those I've ridden (admittedly
limited) have been clunkier and harder-going than other bikes of a
comparable price.

Henry

May be worth checking out Decathlon as their bikes are normally good value
and from memory their road bikes start at about 200 quid. BTW their web
site is [censored] !!

SW

"blackhead" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
After Googling "recommend bicycle uk" and coming up with nothing, I
hope you don't mind me posting this question here.

I'm after a racer, with curved handle bars and am curious as to what
you would recommend. I'm not after something that is £200 more than
something else simply because it's 1 pound lighter. I just want
something that is enjoyable to ride, comfortable and reliable rather
than something to train me for the Tour De France.

So what would you recommend in the following price ranges?

less than £200

£200-300

£300-400

£400-500

And does the weight of a bicycle really matter when compared to that
of the rider?

5Lbs weight difference between two bikes isn't going to make much
difference if the rider is 168 Lbs is it?

Thanks in advance.

blackhead said:

After Googling "recommend bicycle uk" and coming up with nothing, I
hope you don't mind me posting this question here.

I'm after a racer, with curved handle bars I just want
something that is enjoyable to ride, comfortable and reliable rather
than something to train me for the Tour De France.

Comfortable and reliable with curved handlebars suggests more of a
tourer than a racer. Spa Cycles currently has 2007 Dawes Horizon for
£340 and Dawes Audax for £390.

paul

--
CTC Right to Ride Rep. for Richmond upon Thames

Paul Luton said:

Comfortable and reliable with curved handlebars suggests more of a
tourer than a racer.

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

Spa Cycles currently has 2007 Dawes Horizon for
£340 and Dawes Audax for £390.

I think you'd get a nicer bike (to ride) for your money if you spend
it on a second hand Dawes Galaxy or Super Galaxy on ebay. Having said
that, I've not ridden a new Horizon or Audax. The Galaxies are an
attractive option second hand because the tubing that they're made of
(Reynolds 531 ST) lead to a slightly more comfortable ride than you'd
get on a new bike for twice the price.

You can pick up a relatively recent Dawes Galaxy on ebay for circa 200
quid (I got one myself a couple of weeks ago); the only problem with
this approach is that you'd need to know what size you were after, and
how to spot a dud. You're always taking a bit of a chance on some
parts when you buy on ebay; you might get duff wheels, for example.

If you don't go second hand I wouldn't go near anything for less than
about 350 quid.

blackhead said:

After Googling "recommend bicycle uk" and coming up with nothing, I
hope you don't mind me posting this question here.

I'm after a racer, with curved handle bars and am curious as to what
you would recommend. I'm not after something that is £200 more than
something else simply because it's 1 pound lighter. I just want
something that is enjoyable to ride, comfortable and reliable rather
than something to train me for the Tour De France.

We do need to know more than this. How experienced a cyclist are you, how
far do you regularly ride, what are your riding targets over the next few
years? Do you actually intend to race, and if so, time trials, crits,
australian pursuit? Do you intend to ride audax?

Quoted message said:

So what would you recommend in the following price ranges?

less than £200

£200-300

£300-400

£400-500

Frankly, nothing.

A bike - any bike, but a racing bike in particular - is made up of three
main bits: the frame, the wheels, and the mechanical parts often lumped
together as 'the groupset' Once you realise that you'll be able to see that
rather than a wide range of bikes in the under £500 area, there are
actually only a few different 'value propositions'.

Under £500 you are buying

* An aluminium frame
* A low end Shimano groupset - 105 at best
* Cartridge bearing wheels

There's nothing in principle wrong with any of these things. And if you're
buying something to sit in the back of your shed except for a few sunny
days in summer, it may be the best choice for you.

If you're going to be riding significant distances, though, either a carbon
fibre or a steel frame is preferable to aluminium because it will transmit
less vibration to your hands and butt. People say that carbon or steel will
give you a comfier ride - I'm not sure that this is true, but they do damp
vibration a bit. And if you can't afford a carbon frame, carbon forks are a
huge improvement over aluminium ones, and some improvement over steel.

Better groupsets essentially give more precise gearchanges and don't go out
of adjustment so quickly. You should be looking for Campagnolo Veloce or
Centaur, Shimano Tiagra or Ultegra, or SRAM Rival. Obviously all three
manufacturers produce better groupsets, but you get very nearly as good
engineering in the middle groupsets with very much lower prices. I'd tend
to avoid bikes which have a mix of components from half a dozen different
groupsets, though; they're scraped together from whatever was left in the
parts bin.

Quoted message said:

And does the weight of a bicycle really matter when compared to that
of the rider?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

5Lbs weight difference between two bikes isn't going to make much
difference if the rider is 168 Lbs is it?

Not in flat country, no. In theory it shouldn't make much difference in hill
country either, but experience shows that it does.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
; gif ye hes forget our auld plane Scottis quhilk your mother lerit you,
; in tymes cuming I sall wryte to you my mind in Latin, for I am nocht
; acquyntit with your Southeron
;; Letter frae Ninian Winyet tae John Knox datit 27t October 1563

Henry Lockwood wrote:
The one downside I've noticed is that the

Quoted message said:

gear cables stretch faster than I'd have anticipated, though I don't
know if that's me being heavy-handed with them.

Curious I would have thought all gear cables were much of muchness.
However the rear cable on my trek 1000 did break after about a year. I
do change gear constantly.

I replaced the cables but still haven't got the Sora lever clicking
quite like it used to. Apart from the click it works fine.

Nick said:

Henry Lockwood wrote:

The one downside I've noticed is that the

Quoted message said:

gear cables stretch faster than I'd have anticipated, though I don't
know if that's me being heavy-handed with them.

Curious I would have thought all gear cables were much of muchness.
However the rear cable on my trek 1000 did break after about a year. I
do change gear constantly.

I replaced the cables but still haven't got the Sora lever clicking
quite like it used to. Apart from the click it works fine.

Would you believe I thought "brake cables", meant "brake cables",
typed "gear cables" and proofread "brake cables"?

The gear cables have been excellent. I use the rear cable a lot, but
the front shifter rarely gets a look-in: I live in Cambridge, and when
you're in town you want the middle chainring; out of town you want the
top chainring except in a stiff wind. My front mech is therefore
prone to getting dirtied up, particularly in winter.

Yes, it's the brake cables that go. I shall replace them this
weekend, I think.

Simon Brooke said:

Under £500 you are buying
* A low end Shimano groupset - 105 at best

...

Quoted message said:

Better groupsets essentially give more precise gearchanges and don't go out
of adjustment so quickly. You should be looking for Campagnolo Veloce or
Centaur, Shimano Tiagra or Ultegra, or SRAM Rival.

Simon, I think you are confusing 105 & Tiagra here. The Shimano
groupsets go:
2200 -> Sora -> Tiagra -> 105 -> Ultegra -> Dura Ace.

For the OP, unfortunately you're asking at more or less exactly the
wrong time of year. Most manufacturers update their bike range
towards the end of the year, usually with nothing more than a change
of colour scheme, and you can pick up the 'old' range cheaper from
about September onwards.

In any case, something like a Giant SCR 2 / Trek 1.5 is a decent level
of spec that you probably won't grow out of in a year, but you're
still looking at £500+ for a new one (and for £550 you can get last
year's BeOne Storm 1.0 from CRC, alu frame, carbon fork, 105 / FSA
groupset, just like mine!)

Colin

Colin MacDonald said:

For the OP, unfortunately you're asking at more or less exactly the
wrong time of year. Most manufacturers update their bike range
towards the end of the year, usually with nothing more than a change
of colour scheme, and you can pick up the 'old' range cheaper from
about September onwards.

Ummm, my impression was they update them right about now... Roos just
saved £200 on list of a posh new Specialized because it's last year's
model, and the bike shops round this way have only just taken delivery
of their new '08 catalogues.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Colin MacDonald said:

For the OP, unfortunately you're asking at more or less exactly the
wrong time of year. Most manufacturers update their bike range
towards the end of the year, usually with nothing more than a change
of colour scheme, and you can pick up the 'old' range cheaper from
about September onwards.

Ummm, my impression was they update them right about now... Roos just
saved £200 on list of a posh new Specialized because it's last year's
model, and the bike shops round this way have only just taken delivery
of their new '08 catalogues.

Perhaps it's more manufacturer-dependent than I thought. Looking
around the various websites you can still get last-year models, though
mostly in the more extreme sizes. When I was looking at new bikes
(last October) most of the current (at the time) ranges were being
marked down and the '08 models were becoming available on the web.

That said, if Roos got her bike locally then it might be different
timescales; I can imagine discounted LBS stock taking longer to shift
than via mail order simply due to having less exposure and fewer
potential customers.

Colin

Colin MacDonald said:

That said, if Roos got her bike locally then it might be different
timescales; I can imagine discounted LBS stock taking longer to shift
than via mail order simply due to having less exposure and fewer
potential customers.

Plan A was a Giant Expression N7, went into the LBS to see what would be
involved a few weeks back and he said along the lines of, "difficult to
say as the ranges are all about to change and I can't find out what we
can get until the new catalogue is available, I'm expecting it Real Soon
Now and should be able to fill in the details on '08 availability next
week or so". So that's with Giants available to order from, presumably,
Giant Central (the Expression N7 is crushingly sensible and was thus not
available from stock).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Simon Brooke said:

blackhead said:

After Googling "recommend bicycle uk" and coming up with nothing, I
hope you don't mind me posting this question here.

Quoted message said:

I'm after a racer, with curved handle bars and am curious as to what
you would recommend. I'm not after something that is £200 more than
something else simply because it's 1 pound lighter. I just want
something that is enjoyable to ride, comfortable and reliable rather
than something to train me for the Tour De France.

We do need to know more than this. How experienced a cyclist are you, how
far do you regularly ride, what are your riding targets over the next few
years? Do you actually intend to race, and if so, time trials, crits,
australian pursuit? Do you intend to ride audax?

Just something to tour and get some exercise with and at the same time
enjoyable to ride in all weathers. But at the same time "sexy"
looking.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So what would you recommend in the following price ranges?

Quoted message said:

less than £200

Quoted message said:

£200-300

Quoted message said:

£300-400

Quoted message said:

£400-500

Frankly, nothing.

A bike - any bike, but a racing bike in particular - is made up of three
main bits: the frame, the wheels, and the mechanical parts often lumped
together as 'the groupset' Once you realise that you'll be able to see that
rather than a wide range of bikes in the under £500 area, there are
actually only a few different 'value propositions'.

Under £500 you are buying

* An aluminium frame
* A low end Shimano groupset - 105 at best
* Cartridge bearing wheels

There's nothing in principle wrong with any of these things. And if you're
buying something to sit in the back of your shed except for a few sunny
days in summer, it may be the best choice for you.

If you're going to be riding significant distances, though, either a carbon
fibre or a steel frame is preferable to aluminium because it will transmit
less vibration to your hands and butt. People say that carbon or steel will
give you a comfier ride - I'm not sure that this is true, but they do damp
vibration a bit. And if you can't afford a carbon frame, carbon forks are a
huge improvement over aluminium ones, and some improvement over steel.

Better groupsets essentially give more precise gearchanges and don't go out
of adjustment so quickly. You should be looking for Campagnolo Veloce or
Centaur, Shimano Tiagra or Ultegra, or SRAM Rival. Obviously all three
manufacturers produce better groupsets, but you get very nearly as good
engineering in the middle groupsets with very much lower prices. I'd tend
to avoid bikes which have a mix of components from half a dozen different
groupsets, though; they're scraped together from whatever was left in the
parts bin.

Quoted message said:

And does the weight of a bicycle really matter when compared to that
of the rider?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

5Lbs weight difference between two bikes isn't going to make much
difference if the rider is 168 Lbs is it?

Not in flat country, no. In theory it shouldn't make much difference in hill
country either, but experience shows that it does.

I'm thinking of perhaps buying a racer from the Revolution range by
Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op which are supposedly good value:

http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebwPNLqrymode.a4p?f%5FSortOrderID=1&f%5FWebLinkID=12370&f%5Fbct=c012372c012370&f%5Fpage=2

What ya think?

Quoted message said:

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
; gif ye hes forget our auld plane Scottis quhilk your mother lerit you,
; in tymes cuming I sall wryte to you my mind in Latin, for I am nocht
; acquyntit with your Southeron
    ;; Letter frae Ninian Winyet tae John Knox datit 27t October 1563

Peter Clinch said:

Plan A was a Giant Expression N7

Ah. I reckon Giant are a special case; they have Autumn and Spring
collections, rather than calendar year offerings. The Autumn
collection was announced in August but the website has no mention of
the Spring collection yet, which ties in with what your LBS said.

Colin

blackhead said:

I'm thinking of perhaps buying a racer from the Revolution range by
Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op which are supposedly good value:

EBC own-brand stuff is generally reasonable value, but you get what
you pay for. The Continental, for example, has pretty low-spec
components but that's why it is £350. If you're happy with that,
Chain Reaction are doing last year's BeOne Briza 2.0 (no, I'm not on
commission) for £250 and it has a more or less identical spec. For
£350 the Storm 3.0 has Sora kit rather than 2200 as well as carbon
forks.

Colin

blackhead said:

Just something to tour and get some exercise with and at the same time
enjoyable to ride in all weathers. But at the same time "sexy"
looking.

In which case I'd look at something more like a tourer. Mudguards mean
you don't covered in cack any time the road is wet, and a carrier means
you can put any weight you're carting about (spare clothes, picnic lunch
etc.) on the bike rather than on you, all of which means much more
comfort at the expense of a little weight and air resistance. The
riding position is usually a bit easier to keep up too, but again
there'll be a speed compromise.

Quoted message said:

I'm thinking of perhaps buying a racer from the Revolution range by
Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op which are supposedly good value:

Quoted message said:

What ya think?

Check out their tourer too, the Revolution Country Traveller at £400.
Mudguards and a rack aren't what most people would call sexy, but I
can't say I find a brown stripe up someone's back that they're finding
is aching a bit that desirable either... What a tourer like the Country
does say is "proper bike", just a different value of it from a pure
racer, and I suspect it will meet your stated requirements better than a
racer.

Also look out for the Dawes Horizon (very similar, and you may find some
of last year's colour for a good saving).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Henry Lockwood said:

Yes, it's the brake cables that go. I shall replace them this
weekend, I think.

Obviously the brake cables are the most important but I would do the
gear cables at the same time. Mine broke in the actual lever itself and
then the inch or so of frayed wire with the nipple on got stuck inside
the lever. So I had to take the whole thing apart to get it out.