Recent Ramblings

Recent walks in the North-West of Scotland can be found at
www.caledoniahilltreks.com or with photos at
http://caledoniahilltreks.blogspot.com

A couple of new walks have been added to my blog at
http://caledoniahilltreks.blogspot.com

Slainte
Lindsay
www.caledoniahilltreks.com

Lindsay said:

A couple of new walks have been added to my blog at
http://caledoniahilltreks.blogspot.com

Slainte
Lindsay
www.caledoniahilltreks.com

Lindsay - I really do wish you'd stop with these posts. It's bl**dy
frustrating for the rest of us poor mortals who are stuck in the office
/ at home / with the kids and only manage the occasional esacpe!

btw - how's the midge count? I was caught by the blighters last night in
the Pentlands when I stopped to fix a puncture. For heavens sake - it's
October!

druidh

Quoted message said:

btw - how's the midge count? I was caught by the blighters last night in the Pentlands
when I stopped to fix a puncture. For heavens sake - it's October!

None in Glenhsee, or lomond side.

Nick

No midges recently too windy.

Just to annoy you even more see <a
href="http://www.caledoniahilltreks.blogspot.com"target=_blank>More
Walks</a>

You will be glad to stayed in the office/at home.

By the way you don't have to read them.

Lindsay
www.caledoniahilltreks.com

I was out on Ben Nevis yesterday together with well over one hundred
charity walkers and made several observations on this walk including
attire.

If interested you can read my ramlings at:
http://caledoniahilltreks.blogspot.com

No obligation to read it. It just contains my own obeservations.

Slainte.

Lindsay said:

I was out on Ben Nevis yesterday together with well over one hundred
charity walkers and made several observations on this walk including
attire.

In your blog you make a particular point about someone on the hill
wearing shorts.

Walkers, like cyclists, use their legs for most of the work - this
generates heat. Wearing shorts, therefore, is not a particular
problem in cold/damp weather. However, in wet weather water runs down
the legs, to the socks which wick the water into the boots, therefore
waterproof overtousers are advisable, gaiters do not solve this
problem in persistant wet weather.

I usually wear shorts on the hill - though not in very cold weather
where I wear some excellent Paramo zip offs or Paramo salopettes. I
find that waterproof trousers over shorts are *much* more comfortable
than waterproof trousers over trousers.

The problem with wearing shorts in cold weather, in particular in the
case of the guy on Ben Nevis is that the blood vessels are close to the
surface of the skin on your lower legs and therefore this gives a
cooling effect to your body and the heart has to work harder to warm up
the blood to pump it back round the body.

This could be a disaster if he is already cold leading to the
possibility of hypothermia. If he has a weak heart it could be even
more of a disaster.

Personally I don't wear shorts on the hills I don't get that many
fine days and if I do there are always the clegs midges and ticks to
attack you. I prefer to keep covered up.

As a runner I was always told don't wear shorts if it is less than 10C,
which is normally the case during the winter months in the North-East
of Scotland so it will soon be time to put the running shorts away till
next year.

Lindsay.
www.caledoniahilltreks.com

Lindsay said:

As a runner I was always told don't wear shorts if it is less than 10C,
which is normally the case during the winter months in the North-East
of Scotland so it will soon be time to put the running shorts away till
next year.

Interesting. I have frequently walked in shorts when the tops have
been below zero, though on dry and still days. I have a photo of me
standing on top of Am Bodach in February with Ben Nevis in the
background with me in my zip off shorts, and wearing crampons, taken
at the same time as Transport for London photographed my old car being
driven over Tower Bridge and into the Congestion Charging Zone - a
problem that took 15 months to resolve!

In any weather or time of year I cycle in shorts. Walking or cycling,
I've never considered wearing shorts to be a problem, though I may use
my waterproof trousers to cover up when stopping for lunch, then they
tend to stay on.

I take your point about the blood vessels being close to the surface
but believed that the work of the leg muscles and the increased flow
of blood kept the temperature up.

Bertie Wiggins said:

Lindsay said:

As a runner I was always told don't wear shorts if it is less than 10C,
which is normally the case during the winter months in the North-East
of Scotland so it will soon be time to put the running shorts away till
next year.

[...]

Quoted message said:

I take your point about the blood vessels being close to the surface
but believed that the work of the leg muscles and the increased flow
of blood kept the temperature up.

Surely the bottom line is simply a bit of common sense, and
recognition that we're all different. If cold, open the sack and put
on the extra clothes. If not, carry on. Um... I can't really see more
to it than that.

Wet fishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

"Is our children learning?"
g.w.AT [guessthisbit].com

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 18:07:00 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Surely the bottom line is simply a bit of common sense, and
recognition that we're all different. If cold, open the sack and put
on the extra clothes. If not, carry on. Um... I can't really see more
to it than that.

My point is that a walker climbing Ben Nevis in shorts in Autumn is
not in the same danger as a walker climbing Ben Nevis in jeans and
trainers.

"Lindsay" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

The problem with wearing shorts in cold weather, in particular in the
case of the guy on Ben Nevis is that the blood vessels are close to the
surface of the skin on your lower legs and therefore this gives a
cooling effect to your body and the heart has to work harder to warm up
the blood to pump it back round the body.

This could be a disaster if he is already cold leading to the
possibility of hypothermia. If he has a weak heart it could be even
more of a disaster.

So long as your head and torso are kept warm the rest of your body should
follow suit so what you wear on your legs isn't all that important. That's
the way my body works anyway and I'm sure there's an olde saying from times
of yore going something like "if you want warm feet wear a hat or chuck
another serf on the fire". Not sure when yore was exactly and I don't
suppose every kid left school with 20 A levels like they do nowadays but
they weren't all daft and some things still hold true.

Quoted message said:

So long as your head and torso are kept warm the rest of your body should
follow suit so what you wear on your legs isn't all that important. That's
the way my body works anyway and I'm sure there's an olde saying from times
of yore going something like "if you want warm feet wear a hat or chuck
another serf on the fire". Not sure when yore was exactly and I don't
suppose every kid left school with 20 A levels like they do nowadays but
they weren't all daft and some things still hold true.

Do you not know that your body shuts down the extremities when cold ?

Thre is very little fat on your scalp and knees.

Nick

"Nick (Scots)" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So long as your head and torso are kept warm the rest of your body

should

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

follow suit so what you wear on your legs isn't all that important.

Quoted message said:

Do you not know that your body shuts down the extremities when cold ?

Yes, isn't that what I was saying? When it gets cold your body tries to
keep the brain and vital internal organs warm so it reduces blood flow to
the extremities. So if you keep your head and torso warm by covering them
up the body can happily send shedloads of blood around your legs to keep
them warm. But it doesn't work the other way around. I'd happily go out in
very cold temps in shorts, a hat and warm jacket but not cosy fleecy
trousers and a t shirt.

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:20:13 GMT, "Nick \(Scots\)" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So long as your head and torso are kept warm the rest of your body should
follow suit so what you wear on your legs isn't all that important. That's
the way my body works anyway and I'm sure there's an olde saying from times
of yore going something like "if you want warm feet wear a hat or chuck
another serf on the fire". Not sure when yore was exactly and I don't
suppose every kid left school with 20 A levels like they do nowadays but
they weren't all daft and some things still hold true.

Do you not know that your body shuts down the extremities when cold ?

Thre is very little fat on your scalp and knees.

Even so, heat loss from continually moving legs is not going to be
significant when dry in normal UK temperature ranges.

Bertie Wiggins said:

On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 18:07:00 +0100, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Surely the bottom line is simply a bit of common sense, and
recognition that we're all different. If cold, open the sack and put
on the extra clothes. If not, carry on. Um... I can't really see more
to it than that.

My point is that a walker climbing Ben Nevis in shorts in Autumn is
not in the same danger as a walker climbing Ben Nevis in jeans and
trainers.

Yes, sorry Bertie. I was really just thinking that it seemed a bit
daft to be laying down absolute rules about what should/shouldn't be
worn, and when. I was thinking more of the post to which you were
responding than your own.

Wet fishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

"Is our children learning?"
g.w.AT [guessthisbit].com

AndyP said:

Yes, isn't that what I was saying? When it gets cold your body tries to
keep the brain and vital internal organs warm so it reduces blood flow to
the extremities. So if you keep your head and torso warm by covering them
up the body can happily send shedloads of blood around your legs to keep
them warm. But it doesn't work the other way around. I'd happily go out in
very cold temps in shorts, a hat and warm jacket but not cosy fleecy
trousers and a t shirt.

Agree entirely...I've never (yet!) felt my legs getting cold, could be
due to the layer of fat!! However do often feel the need to have extra
layers on my top half. Also don't the legs generate heat due to the
activity involved?

David.

The message <[email hidden]>
from "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Agree entirely...I've never (yet!) felt my legs getting cold, could be
due to the layer of fat!! However do often feel the need to have extra
layers on my top half. Also don't the legs generate heat due to the
activity involved?

I never wear shorts out walking but I have had trouble with my knees on
and off over the years and during one consultation with a specialist
(who decided I wasn't sufficiently impaired to cause the NHS any
concern) I was informed that the knee caps have no direct blood supply
and are most at risk when the legs get cold thus explaining why my knee
trouble was much more prevalent in the winter. Since then I have tried
to be a bit more careful keeping my legs warm.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 53 summits
New - 27 (Marilyns 13, Nuttalls 5, Outlying Fells 10)
Repeats - 26 (Marilyns 10, Nuttalls 17, Wainwrights 12, Outlying Fells 0)

My recent walks can be found at:
http://caledoniahilltreks.blogspot.com

Photos taken on these walks can be found on my web site.

Slainte
Lindsay
www.caledoniahilltreks.com