Recap (for Orac)

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From: "Orac" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004
12:32 PM Subject: Re: Warning: MHA = acahf hangout

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

To any new readers or others who may not be aware of
this, to you who are genuinely interested in alt
health, please note: Anything that you may post to mha
is being carefully noted and monitored by your
"friendly" acahf rep.

Really? And what is your evidence for this?

Actually, Orac, it began with a comment by you yourself.
Some scared weird little guy* was embarking on something
called a "gall bladder cleanse". ok.... I didn't know much
about them. He didn't appear to either. Then you made a
comment to the effect that while it would be unlikely to
do anything, if it did, it could possibly be harmful.

So, I passed on the message in a reply to him, saying you
had said that

and

Quoted message said:

that he should check it out further.

He asked for web links. The first couple that I checked
out on the web

both

Quoted message said:

endorsed your word of caution. Both said that people could
sometimes end up in hospital, consequent to such
"cleanses".

I posted the links, and took some details from one of them
to underscore the need to approach something like that
with a certain amount of caution.

The response from one or two posters was to immediately
attack the person who had been cited as advising to NOT
rush into the cleanse.

No discussion of what was involved in the "cleanse". No
discussion of

what

Quoted message said:

might be good advice for someone trying it out. Instead,
an attack on one of the authors.

And that attack was NOT a fact-based appraisal of ...
anything whatsoever. It arose from unproven allegations,
falsehoods, misrepresentations,

implied

Quoted message said:

suggestions of wrongdoing, various slanderous statements,
and .... rumour.

What this meant was that time which could have been spent
discussing an

alt

Quoted message said:

therapy went instead into witch-hunt mode after non-
existent "facts". The alt health discussion was blatantly
sabotaged.

As well, it led to action being taken across the 'Net /
real life

boundary.

Quoted message said:

This is not on. It is not acceptable, and I will not be a
party to such endeavours, nor will I sit back in silence
while it is occurring.

(* - To anth, "Scared Weird Little Guys" is not
derogatory, it is a friendly term:
www.swlg.com.au/bio_2.htm
www.saxton.com.au/default.asp?sd8=484 )

I'm not scared in the slightest - [censored] happens all the time.
(I also remind the cynics of the efforts of Dr Victor
Herbert with proving folate deficiency) The reason why I am
doing a cleanse is basically for the hell of it and to
settle a few points. (Up to Day 5 drinking apple juice) Anth

Quoted message said:

--
-------------------- newsreader.comnewsreader.comOpen ↗ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

From: "Orac" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004
12:32 PM Subject: Re: Warning: MHA = acahf hangout

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

To any new readers or others who may not be aware of
this, to you who are genuinely interested in alt
health, please note: Anything that you may post to mha
is being carefully noted and monitored by your
"friendly" acahf rep.

Really? And what is your evidence for this?

Actually, Orac, it began with a comment by you yourself.

I'm not a member of the ACAHF.

Quoted message said:

Some scared weird little guy* was embarking on something
called a "gall bladder cleanse". ok.... I didn't know much
about them. He didn't appear to either. Then you made a
comment to the effect that while it would be unlikely to do
anything, if it did, it could possibly be harmful.

Actually, I said that it didn't do anything, but if it
actually could dislodge stones without dissolving them
completely, that could potentially be harmful.

I also pointed out to others that most people who use these
flushes have no objective evidence that they even have
stones, nor do they have any evidence (before and after
ultrasound studies, for instance) that they do anything.

Quoted message said:

So, I passed on the message in a reply to him, saying you
had said that and that he should check it out further.

He asked for web links. The first couple that I checked
out on the web both endorsed your word of caution. Both
said that people could sometimes end up in hospital,
consequent to such "cleanses".

I posted the links, and took some details from one of them
to underscore the need to approach something like that
with a certain amount of caution.

The response from one or two posters was to immediately
attack the person who had been cited as advising to NOT
rush into the cleanse.

Really? Specifics of this "attack"?

Quoted message said:

No discussion of what was involved in the "cleanse". No
discussion of what might be good advice for someone trying
it out. Instead, an attack on one of the authors.

Really? Specifics of this "attack"?

Quoted message said:

And that attack was NOT a fact-based appraisal of ...
anything whatsoever. It arose from unproven
allegations, falsehoods, misrepresentations, implied
suggestions of wrongdoing, various slanderous
statements, and .... rumour.

Really? Specifics of this "attack"?

Quoted message said:

What this meant was that time which could have been spent
discussing an alt therapy went instead into witch-hunt
mode after non-existent "facts". The alt health discussion
was blatantly sabotaged.

Oh, please. Give me a break. This is Usenet. It's like the
friggin' Wild West. Anyone can say anything any time they
want, and they do.

Quoted message said:

As well, it led to action being taken across the 'Net /
real life boundary.

If it kept anyone from using these useless flushes and
instead opting to go to a doctor, I would counter that this
is a good thing.

Quoted message said:

This is not on. It is not acceptable, and I will not be a
party to such endeavours, nor will I sit back in silence
while it is occurring.

Can the self-righteousness. It's not convincing, and it just
makes you look silly.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
|you inconvenience me with questions?"

Anth said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

www.swlg.com.au/bio_2.htm
www.saxton.com.au/default.asp?sd8=484 )

I'm not scared in the slightest - [censored] happens all the
time. (I also remind the cynics of the efforts of Dr
Victor Herbert with proving folate deficiency) The reason
why I am doing a cleanse is basically for the hell of it
and to settle a few points. (Up to Day 5 drinking apple
juice) Anth

ok, well, good luck with it.

Quoted message said:

I'm not scared in the slightest - [censored] happens all
the time.

Yes, for those who cleanse unnecessarily.........

Quoted message said:

(I also remind the cynics of the efforts of Dr Victor
Herbert with proving folate deficiency) The reason why I
am doing a cleanse is basically for the hell of it and
to settle a few points. (Up to Day 5 drinking apple
juice) Anth

"Ilsa9.11" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm not scared in the slightest - [censored] happens all
the time.

Yes, for those who cleanse unnecessarily.........

====================
And for those getting enough roughage in their diets. No
unnatural "cleanses" needed. ;-)
--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Kim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ilsa9.11" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040311152627.03003.00001059@mb-
m15.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm not scared in the slightest - [censored] happens all the
time.

Yes, for those who cleanse unnecessarily.........

====================
And for those getting enough roughage in their diets. No
unnatural "cleanses" needed. ;-)

This is something that I fail to understand about these
cleanses. You take a concoction that makes you gag and puke,
causes painful cramps, ending with bowel eruptions and a
sore hiney. ,,,and they call it "natural".

"Nana Weedkiller" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

This is something that I fail to understand about these
cleanses. You take a concoction that makes you gag and
puke, causes painful cramps, ending with bowel eruptions
and a sore hiney. ,,,and they call it "natural".

"Natural" in this case is simply being used as a synonym for
"old- fashioned." Purges were a mainstay of pre-modern
medical treatment, particularly during the Victorian era,
which for some reason is where much American nostalgia puts
the Golden Age. I suspect that the notion that "if it's
unpleasant, it must be good for you" forms a big part of the
rationale.

Where would somebody get a notion that these cleanses are
unpleasant in the least bit, make you gag or puke, cause
bowel eruptions or cramps? The magnesium in the flush prep
stage makes one feel wonderful and healthy.

Ignorance at it's finest here.

"Eric Bohlman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nana Weedkiller" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

This is something that I fail to understand about these
cleanses. You take a concoction that makes you gag and
puke, causes painful cramps, ending with bowel eruptions
and a sore hiney. ,,,and they call it "natural".

"Natural" in this case is simply being used as a synonym
for "old- fashioned." Purges were a mainstay of pre-modern
medical treatment, particularly during the Victorian era,
which for some reason is where much American nostalgia
puts the Golden Age. I suspect that the notion that

"if

Quoted message said:

it's unpleasant, it must be good for you" forms a big part
of the rationale.

X-No-Archive: yes

"Nana Weedkiller" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Kim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:s7KdnZOBlqKiOs7dRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ilsa9.11" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040311152627.03003.00001059@mb-
m15.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

>
>I'm not scared in the slightest - [censored] happens all
>the time.

Yes, for those who cleanse unnecessarily.........

====================
And for those getting enough roughage in their diets. No
unnatural "cleanses" needed. ;-)

This is something that I fail to understand about these
cleanses. You take a concoction that makes you gag and
puke, causes painful cramps, ending with bowel eruptions
and a sore hiney. ,,,and they call it "natural".

===========================
I know exactly what you mean. There is nothing natural about
it so why are they pushing it? Anyone on a good diet will
not need these cleanses, flushes and enemas. Yes enemas.
There are people paying to have some quack give them herbal
enemas to cleanse their colons. How unnatural is THAT?
Sounds kinky to me.
--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Where would somebody get a notion that these cleanses are
unpleasant in

the

Quoted message said:

least bit, make you gag or puke, cause bowel eruptions or
cramps? The magnesium in the flush prep stage makes one
feel wonderful and healthy.

Ignorance at it's finest here.

==========================
Who doesn't know someone who tried one of these unnatural
cleanses? Who doesn't remember them talking about 100 trips
to the toilet, the sore/inflamed anus afterward? The "raw
gut" feeling?

Tell us how all this Magnesium is healthy for us? If you're
deficient you can buy the magnesium tablets for almost
nothing at any Wal-Mart store. ;-) No unnatural cleanse
needed. Try sticking to a good diet and see how wonderful
and healthy you feel.
--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~