Rear wheel disengages

rwinthenorth said:

I was out ridng with my son last night and everytime he applied the brakes to his rear wheel, it popped loose from the dropouts, binding and preventing him from going from a stop. I reset the wheel and tightened the skewer as tight as humanly possible but under a hard break it still popped loose. After this happened the 3rd time, I told him to complete the ride without using his rear brake. Problem fixed😕 sort of...

History: this has never happened on this bike, but I'll say I was installing Aero bars and put it on the trainer for positioning without using the trainer skewer. The wheels are Xero Lites. The frame is steel. The brakes are Campy Record. Did I bend the skewer? It didn't look like it, but maybe I don't know what a bent or damaged skewer looks like. A little input please, before I replace the skewers... Thanks.

What kind of skewers are on the bike?

alienator said:

What kind of skewers are on the bike?

They have the Xero logo on them. They're black and look like these:westernbikeworks.comproductdetail.aspOpen ↗

rwinthenorth said:

They have the Xero logo on them. They're black and look like these:westernbikeworks.comproductdetail.aspOpen ↗

First, are you sure the skewer(s) is tight enough? If it's tight enough, it should leave an impression in your hand after closing. If that is the case, then the skewers may just suck. I had a set of Mavic wheels w/ Mavic skewers years ago, and those skewers had the tendency to allow the rear wheel to slip.

rwinthenorth said:

I was out ridng with my son last night and everytime he applied the brakes to his rear wheel, it popped loose from the dropouts, binding and preventing him from going from a stop. I reset the wheel and tightened the skewer as tight as humanly possible but under a hard break it still popped loose. After this happened the 3rd time, I told him to complete the ride without using his rear brake. Problem fixed😕 sort of...

History: this has never happened on this bike, but I'll say I was installing Aero bars and put it on the trainer for positioning without using the trainer skewer. The wheels are Xero Lites. The frame is steel. The brakes are Campy Record. Did I bend the skewer? It didn't look like it, but maybe I don't know what a bent or damaged skewer looks like. A little input please, before I replace the skewers... Thanks.

My experience is that steel frames generally need quick release skewers which have steel "faces" that contact the dropout ... skewers with aluminum "faces" cannot bite into a steel dropout, and will (as you discovered) slip.

Shimano & Campagnolo make some of the "best" skewers, IMO -- generally, they come with the hubs & aren't sold separately although the XTR skewers were sold separately for a while.

BTW. If the skewer, itself, is bent, it will generally bind when you remove it from the wheel's axle. A slightly bent skewer is more of an inconvenience than anything, IMO ... I suppose, others might choose to disagree.

alfeng said:

My experience is that steel frames generally need quick release skewers which have steel "faces" that contact the dropout ... skewers with aluminum "faces" cannot bite into a steel dropout, and will (as you discovered) slip.

Shimano & Campagnolo make some of the "best" skewers, IMO -- generally, they come with the hubs & aren't sold separately although the XTR skewers were sold separately for a while.

BTW. If the skewer, itself, is bent, it will generally bind when you remove it from the wheel's axle. A slightly bent skewer is more of an inconvenience than anything, IMO ... I suppose, others might choose to disagree.

Thanks for both opinions. I've got a pair of Campy skewers I'll stick in tonight. I'll see what happens when we go tomorrow night.

rwinthenorth said:

Thanks for both opinions. I've got a pair of Campy skewers I'll stick in tonight. I'll see what happens when we go tomorrow night.

Make sure the axle ends are no protruding to the outside of the dropouts.
Lubricate the internal cam on the QR body, but wipe away any residue of the lube. Clean the faces of the locknuts and especially the inside faces of the dropouts. Make sure things are properly aligned and the the locknuts have a good "purchase" in the inside of the dropouts.

I've had this problem occasionally with those dreadful external cam skewers that everyone thinks are the bees knees at the moment. Even after cam lubrication, I've found that they only get tight enough when you close the lever with enough force to make you swear for a while and need to rub the huge indent out of your hand. In addition, you need to fine tune the skewer nut before you close the lever, as there is a narrow gap between too loose and impossible to close.
Get yourself a nice Shimano skewer - they are so much better than the external cam horrors pushed by Mavic, DT Swiss and numerous little boutique brands. I've not seen a Campy skewer - they may be just as good. FWIW, I've never needed to lubricate the innards of a Shimano skewer.

+1 to alfeng and artemidorius on their posts. If you need to look for new skewers, try eBay. It worked well for me.

make sure the contact surfaces are knurled/serrated. It helps tremendously with the friction. Shimano skewers are IMO the best bet. DA skewers 'feel' like quality. But then, my wheels are attracted towards the greatness that is a BMC frame so I don't have this problem. BMC owners know what I'm talking about 😄

If all else fails, Tacx dynamic friction paste has been a helpful hand in the workshop.

bobbyOCR said:

make sure the contact surfaces are knurled/serrated. It helps tremendously with the friction. Shimano skewers are IMO the best bet. DA skewers 'feel' like quality. But then, my wheels are attracted towards the greatness that is a BMC frame so I don't have this problem. BMC owners know what I'm talking about 😄

If all else fails, Tacx dynamic friction paste has been a helpful hand in the workshop.

Wow, a BMC Frame must be massively heavy to generate that much gravitational pull!🙄

kdelong said:

Wow, a BMC Frame must be massively heavy to generate that much gravitational pull!🙄

I use light components to offset the high weight which I accept in return for riding a BMC and being safe. you know what frames suck, TREK/Giant/Specalized (I am just saying these to stir **** up. I'll assume at least 50% of you are riding one of these)

If you're tightening the skewers as tight as you claim you are, I bet that the axle is extending beyond the outer face of the dropouts. If that's the case, the wheel will continue to slip regardless of what type of skewer you're using or how tight they are because the QR is closing against the axle rather than the frame. I know Dave already mentioned this but it warrants being mentioned again. Take a careful look at the axle when the wheel is seated properly in the dropouts. If it protrudes beyond the dropout, there's your problem.

meehs said:

If you're tightening the skewers as tight as you claim you are, I bet that the axle is extending beyond the outer face of the dropouts. If that's the case, the wheel will continue to slip regardless of what type of skewer you're using or how tight they are because the QR is closing against the axle rather than the frame. I know Dave already mentioned this but it warrants being mentioned again. Take a careful look at the axle when the wheel is seated properly in the dropouts. If it protrudes beyond the dropout, there's your problem.

Thanks for the info. I did the easiest thing first. I swapped out the skewers for a set of Campy's I had from my other bike. They definately are holding. Just by looking at the two faces, the Campy's have a larger surface area, are steel and grabbed right away. No more slipping! Now all I have to do is figure out how the heck my son blew the s**t out of the side wall of a 3 month old Conti Gatorskin at 20mph. Sheesh, it never ends!!:eek:

rwinthenorth said:

Thanks for the info. I did the easiest thing first. I swapped out the skewers for a set of Campy's I had from my other bike. They definately are holding. Just by looking at the two faces, the Campy's have a larger surface area, are steel and grabbed right away. No more slipping! Now all I have to do is figure out how the heck my son blew the s**t out of the side wall of a 3 month old Conti Gatorskin at 20mph. Sheesh, it never ends!!:eek:

Did this happen on a descent? If so, I reckon he's riding his brakes -- scrubbing the rims with the pads will super-heat the rims (resulting in a temp well over 150ºF ... possibly, over 200ºF), so the net result is the max PSI is being exceeded, particularly, if the cold PSI is over 105PSI.

If it was on the flats, then check that his (rear) wheels are true ... AND, set the gap on the pads at least 0.5mm further from the rim.

Blowout:

More likley, the wheel was not all the way up in the drop outs resulting in the brake pads riding too high and abrading the tire. Or the pads were set too high. Or the wheel is out of true and when it rubs the brake pad, the pad rides up on the rim until it abrades the tire just in that spot. Or when the wheel slipped earlier, the tire rubbed against the inside of the frame.

bobbyOCR said:

I use light components to offset the high weight which I accept in return for riding a BMC and being safe. you know what frames suck, TREK/Giant/Specalized (I am just saying these to stir **** up. I'll assume at least 50% of you are riding one of these)

Bobby, you are pure evil😄 .

alfeng said:

Did this happen on a descent? If so, I reckon he's riding his brakes -- scrubbing the rims with the pads will super-heat the rims (resulting in a temp well over 150ºF ... possibly, over 200ºF), so the net result is the max PSI is being exceeded, particularly, if the cold PSI is over 105PSI.

If it was on the flats, then check that his (rear) wheels are true ... AND, set the gap on the pads at least 0.5mm further from the rim.

Since you mentioned it, this is actually his front tire, and it sounds plausible. I changed out the skewers to take care of the original problem and maybe I didn't reset the wheel correctly.

The other issue:
The wheel is whacked out of true and I'm thinking he didn't get off the handlebars going over a gutter curb we crossed. I've actually toasted a spoke nut in one spot trying to get the wobble out of that area. I'm thinking the rim is a loss. How do I know what to look at.?😕 It's a xero lite, I think 18? spoke. Can one just replace the spoke and try again?

Remember I mentioned an out of true wheels can cause the brake pad to ride up and cut the tire?
If you are stripping spokes trying to true the wheel, the rim has probably had it.
Replace the rim and the spokes. It may be more cost effective to simply replace the wheel.

rwinthenorth said:

Since you mentioned it, this is actually his front tire, and it sounds plausible. I changed out the skewers to take care of the original problem and maybe I didn't reset the wheel correctly.

The other issue:
The wheel is whacked out of true and I'm thinking he didn't get off the handlebars going over a gutter curb we crossed. I've actually toasted a spoke nut in one spot trying to get the wobble out of that area. I'm thinking the rim is a loss. How do I know what to look at.?😕 It's a xero lite, I think 18? spoke. Can one just replace the spoke and try again?

Dan H said:

Remember I mentioned an out of true wheels can cause the brake pad to ride up and cut the tire?
If you are stripping spokes trying to true the wheel, the rim has probably had it.
Replace the rim and the spokes. It may be more cost effective to simply replace the wheel.

AAHHHHH! 😠. Thanks for the help.