Rear wheel building questions

Antti-<< I have a self-built rear wheel with Mavic CXP33 rim, 32 DT 14/15/14G spokes and a modern
Campagnolo Chorus hub. The wheel has about 13 months or 6500 kilometres on it. It was the first
wheel I ever built, and I built it three-cross on the right and radial on the left. It's been mostly
troublefree, but I've noticed that the left-side spokes have gradually lost some of their tension.
Not enough to make it unrideable, but I've had to tighten the left-side spokes twice because of the
tight clearance of the break pads. >><BR><BR>

It was outta dish, pulled to the right? If the left side 'lost tension', it was because the right
wasn't tensioned enough..It doesn't just change dish, having all the left side get loose.

<< When I built the wheel, I didn't lubricate the threads of the radial left spokes, as recommended
by Sheldon Brown, but I didn't use any kind of thread lock either. >><BR><BR>

The key to keeping the left side spokes from looening is ensuring the right side are tensioned
properly. No need to threadlock anything...AND should lube all the nipps, threads.

<< I have thought of two alternatives to fix the problem of loosening left-side spokes for good:

1) Rebuild the wheel with the same spokes and spoking pattern, using new nipples and thread lock.

2) Rebuild the wheel three-cross on both sides, and perhaps with thinner spokes. However, it's been
pointed out that rebuilding a wheel with a different spoking pattern with the same hub can lead
to hub flange failure. Does this also apply to the left flange of a heavily dished rear wheel,
where spoke tension is very low?

Educated opinions are welcome. I weigh barely 60 kilograms, so building a reliable wheel with these
components should be a no-brainer. >><BR><BR>

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(3)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Antti-<< 1) Rebuild the wheel with the same spokes and spoking pattern, using new nipples and
thread lock.

2) Rebuild the wheel three-cross on both sides, and perhaps with thinner spokes. However, it's been
pointed out that rebuilding a wheel with a different spoking pattern with the same hub can lead
to hub flange failure. Does this also apply to the left flange of a heavily dished rear wheel,
where spoke tension is very low?

Retension the wheel, make the right side proper, with the rim round, dished, true and stress
relieved. radial does nothin but it is what it is....I wouldn't relace it, your warranty is already
history. I think the tension of the right wasn't proper, not spoke gauge or threadlock stuff...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(3)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Antti Salonen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have a self-built rear wheel with Mavic CXP33 rim, 32 DT 14/15/14G spokes and a modern
Campagnolo Chorus hub. The wheel has about 13 months or 6500 kilometres on it. It was the first
wheel I ever built, and I built it three-cross on the right and radial on the left. It's been
mostly troublefree, but I've noticed that the left-side spokes have gradually lost some of their
tension. Not enough to make it unrideable, but I've had to tighten the left-side spokes twice
because of the tight clearance of the break pads.

When I built the wheel, I didn't lubricate the threads of the radial left spokes, as recommended
by Sheldon Brown, but I didn't use any kind of thread lock either. I think I tensioned the wheel
to the verge of tacoing, as described in the Book, but it is possible that my observations while
tensioning the wheel were not correct due to inexperience. I don't have a tensiometer so I can't
give any absolute values.

I have thought of two alternatives to fix the problem of loosening left-side spokes for good:

1) Rebuild the wheel with the same spokes and spoking pattern, using new nipples and thread lock.

2) Rebuild the wheel three-cross on both sides, and perhaps with thinner spokes. However, it's
been pointed out that rebuilding a wheel with a different spoking pattern with the same hub can
lead to hub flange failure. Does this also apply to the left flange of a heavily dished rear
wheel, where spoke tension is very low?

Educated opinions are welcome. I weigh barely 60 kilograms, so building a reliable wheel with
these components should be a no-brainer.

-as

Read The Book again. I agree with most of what Sheldon Brown suggest, but I don't agree with radial
spoking or omitting lubrication on any spokes or nipples. You may have had residual spoke wind-up,
especially due to the lack of lubrication. Spokes will also settle towards their straight line
alignment. There is a section of The Book that demonstrates methods of spoke alignment.

David Ornee, Western Springs, IL

Antti Salonen said:

When I built the wheel, I didn't lubricate the threads of the radial left spokes, as recommended
by Sheldon Brown, but I didn't use any kind of thread lock either. I think I tensioned the wheel
to the verge of tacoing, as described in the Book, but it is possible that my observations while
tensioning the wheel were not correct due to inexperience. I don't have a tensiometer so I can't
give any absolute values.

Quoted message said:

I have thought of two alternatives to fix the problem of loosening left-side spokes for good:

Quoted message said:

1) Rebuild the wheel with the same spokes and spoking pattern, using new nipples and thread lock.

I wouldn't do that. If the left side spokes are loosening, I suspect both sides need more tension.
You could try new brass nipples with lubricant.

Quoted message said:

2) Rebuild the wheel three-cross on both sides, and perhaps with thinner spokes. However, it's
been pointed out that rebuilding a wheel with a different spoking pattern with the same hub can
lead to hub flange failure. Does this also apply to the left flange of a heavily dished rear
wheel, where spoke tension is very low?

Three cross on the left would be slightly better for preventing loose spokes, but I wouldn't do it
with hubs that had been previously laced radially.

You might try 15-16-15 spokes on the left. They would be a bit more elastic. No need to change the
right spokes, but lube the threads and get 'em tight.

Art Harris

David Ornee said:

Read The Book again. I agree with most of what Sheldon Brown suggest, but I don't agree with
radial spoking or omitting lubrication on any spokes or nipples. You may have had residual spoke
wind-up, especially due to the lack of lubrication.

I very much doubt that. I carefully lubricated the drive-side three-cross spokes and nipples, just
not the radial left-side nipples. The tension on the left side was low and the friction in the
threads lower than usual because of the radial spoking. There was very little friction when I turned
the nipples while building the wheel, and I'm confident I would've felt the 1.8 mm spokes winding
up, as it's really quite apparent.

I think the overall tension of the wheel was simply too low. Thanks for replies.

-as

In article <[email hidden]>, Antti Salonen

Quoted message said:

Educated opinions are welcome. I weigh barely 60 kilograms, so building a reliable wheel with these
components should be a no-brainer.

When I built my last rear wheel (Open Pro, Chorus 32 hole hub, cross 3 14/15 drive side, cross 3 DT
revo left side) I mistook some slight rippling as I brought it up to tension for the tacoing and
backed off tension too early. It creaked and spokes loosened until I tensioned to the point of
actually tacoing, and since then it's been fine.

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