Real Bike Cities.

Seattle, on the other hand, is widely regarded as an excellent example of
bicycle commuting. Paris is far from it. I don't have first-hand knowledge
of the other places you listed, but your track record so far isn't terribly
good.

You might re-post your troll in rec.bicycles.racing where people make a
sport of such things.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Red Cloud" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

1. Hamburg

2. Rome

3. London

4. paris

5. Other European big and small cities

These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders, and

most

Quoted message said:

Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the worst place for
biker. The reason is that in America most folks do not ride a bike.
As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of American population are

relying

Quoted message said:

bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that number of

population

Quoted message said:

relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are quite high.

I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will. I bet that it's

not

Quoted message said:

going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a hugh bike populations

verse

Quoted message said:

a sole rider in big street in US.

NYC in the 60s was fine. That was before bike messengers.

The courtesy you get depends on how many bikes the drivers have seen
before you that day. If it's none, you get all sorts of consideration.

This is why you ought to be stamping out bike commuting, not encouraging
it. It leaves you as the only rider. People give you a friendly wave,
who pass you every day.
--
Ron Hardin
[email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Greetings from London,

It's along time since I've been to Hamburg. I wasn't impressed with
their idea of compelling cyclists to ride on narrow urban sidewalks,
even though they did paint a white line down the middle of the
sidewalk, and call that a "bike lane"

London is pretty good, although mine is a minority opinion. We are
still trying to get a Tour de France stage here. The tour of Britain
is back, meanwhile. The final stage will be a criterium in
Westminster, Sept 5th. Send off for our free bike maps - London is
big enough that it takes 19 of them to cover all london. Central
London is map 10. For more info' look at the Transport for London
web site www.tfl.org.uk

There are lots of ways to get round London, so cycling has
competition

We got five ring roads from the planner kings
(or at least a partial try)
and Jubilee and Victoria in their halls of stone
no highwalks for pedestrians, still doomed to die
no Orbrail yet for railways, though once they ruled the throne.
But there's one mode that rules them all
although they won't admit it
for fast fun trips around our town
get a bike - you won't regret it.

Jeremy Parker
London UK

"Red Cloud" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

1. Hamburg

2. Rome

3. London

4. paris

5. Other European big and small cities

These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders,

and most

Quoted message said:

Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the worst place

for

Quoted message said:

biker. The reason is that in America most folks do not ride a

bike.

Quoted message said:

As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of American population are

relying

Quoted message said:

bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that number of

population

Quoted message said:

relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are quite high.

I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will. I bet

that it's not

Quoted message said:

going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a hugh bike

populations verse

Quoted message said:

a sole rider in big street in US.

Red Cloud said:

1. Hamburg

2. Rome

3. London

4. paris

5. Other European big and small cities

These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders,

I doubt it.
Here in Europe we usually consider Holland as the best example of how to
plan and build for bicycle commuters.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Red Cloud" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

1. Hamburg

2. Rome

3. London

4. paris

5. Other European big and small cities

These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders, and most
Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the worst place for
biker. The reason is that in America most folks do not ride a bike.
As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of American population are relying
bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that number of population
relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are quite high.

I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will. I bet that it's not
going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a hugh bike populations verse
a sole rider in big street in US.

I'd take Seattle over Rome any day for bike commuting. Seattle does not have the
plague of moped riders talking on cel phones filling every gap in the car
traffic.

Red Cloud said:

1. Hamburg

2. Rome

3. London

4. paris

5. Other European big and small cities

Have you tried to ride in these cities, or are you just assuming that,
since they are in Europe, they must be better than anything the US has to
offer? Conversely, if you try riding in New York, or (so I am told)
Seattle, or even Philadelphia, you might find that they can be exceptional
places to ride.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | I don't believe you, you've got the whole damn thing all wrong.
_`\(,_ | He's not the kind you have to wind-up on Sundays. --Ian Anderson
(_)/ (_) |

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Seattle, on the other hand, is widely regarded as an excellent example of
bicycle commuting. Paris is far from it. I don't have first-hand

knowledge

Quoted message said:

of the other places you listed, but your track record so far isn't

terribly

Quoted message said:

good.

You might re-post your troll in rec.bicycles.racing where people make a
sport of such things.

Yeah, I think the "Seattle" thing was thrown in there for trolling purposes.

Now, I think I'm going to haul myself up from the computer and go ride in
one of those "worst places", where, according to the mayor, bicycle
commuting has been increasing at 7-8% a year.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

David L. Johnson said:

Red Cloud said:

1. Hamburg

2. Rome

3. London

4. paris

5. Other European big and small cities

Have you tried to ride in these cities, or are you just assuming that,
since they are in Europe, they must be better than anything the US
has to offer?

I hate it when I click on an unread post and then actually consider its
content, BEFORE noting the author.

Bill "Red Cloud Troll" S.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

You might re-post your troll in rec.bicycles.racing where people make a
sport of such things.

yep--trolling it is,but perhaps grounds for interesting dialog regardless.

The numero uno reason this is a troll, is the fact that Amsterdam isn't
mentioned as one of the European cities. :/

However there are too many to mention, my hometown of Gothenburg, Sweden
is especially nice--they have seperate bike lane and lights in the city!
Makes you feel like just another vehicle.

Seattle--I've been there many times since I used to live in the region, is
very bike friendly as far as attitudes go--outdoorsy lifestyles are a very
integrated part of the city's identity. I must admit that I sold my bike
when I was in the region (mainly for sustenance, I was in college 😄)
because I hadn't come to terms with the challenge of almost daily rain and
some pretty brutal hills. Eventually I bought a vintage three speed with
fenders and found that to be the perfect NW bike--you could push it up a
hill and look perfectly natural--it's a three speed--and the fenders were
a godsend. 😄

My favourite bike city in the states is Chicago! Lots of everyday normal
folks ride--not just the crunchy granola types. There are plenty of bike
lanes, and motorists--as aggressive as they usually are in the big city,
seem to tolerate cyclists. The city also has installed bike racks, real
solid brilliant ones, almost everywhere! I find that more important than
the bike lines almost. Chicago's also flat--so you can ride whatever piece
of junk you have laying around and not worry too much about theft.

my 2c

😄

I must say, the last time I was in London, I noticed that the air quality
was terrible. I had to blow black stuff out of my nose and that was just
from walking around, let alone if I was riding a bicycle. It was a very
nice city, but I hope they did something about the air quality.

Curt

"Jeremy Parker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Greetings from London,

It's along time since I've been to Hamburg. I wasn't impressed with
their idea of compelling cyclists to ride on narrow urban sidewalks,
even though they did paint a white line down the middle of the
sidewalk, and call that a "bike lane"

London is pretty good, although mine is a minority opinion. We are
still trying to get a Tour de France stage here. The tour of Britain
is back, meanwhile. The final stage will be a criterium in
Westminster, Sept 5th. Send off for our free bike maps - London is
big enough that it takes 19 of them to cover all london. Central
London is map 10. For more info' look at the Transport for London
web site www.tfl.org.uk

There are lots of ways to get round London, so cycling has
competition

We got five ring roads from the planner kings
(or at least a partial try)
and Jubilee and Victoria in their halls of stone
no highwalks for pedestrians, still doomed to die
no Orbrail yet for railways, though once they ruled the throne.
But there's one mode that rules them all
although they won't admit it
for fast fun trips around our town
get a bike - you won't regret it.

Jeremy Parker
London UK

"Red Cloud" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

1. Hamburg

2. Rome

3. London

4. paris

5. Other European big and small cities

These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders,

and most

Quoted message said:

Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the worst place

for

Quoted message said:

biker. The reason is that in America most folks do not ride a

bike.

Quoted message said:

As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of American population are

relying

Quoted message said:

bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that number of

population

Quoted message said:

relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are quite high.

I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will. I bet

that it's not

Quoted message said:

going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a hugh bike

populations verse

Quoted message said:

a sole rider in big street in US.

maxo said:

However there are too many to mention, my hometown of Gothenburg, Sweden
is especially nice--they have seperate bike lane and lights in the city!
Makes you feel like just another vehicle.

I ride on the road in Washington, DC and feel just like a vehicle,
too. I share the traffic lights with the cars and the trucks - no big
deal...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

maxo said:

... my hometown of Gothenburg, Sweden
is especially nice--they have seperate bike lane and lights in the city!
Makes you feel like just another vehicle.

Hmmm. Being segregated in a bike lane wouldn't make me feel "just like
another vehicle." I prefer to use the same facilities the other
vehicles use.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Curtis L. Russell said:

I ride on the road in Washington, DC and feel just like a vehicle,
too. I share the traffic lights with the cars and the trucks - no big
deal...

the issue of lanes vs. no lanes can also be discussed to death 😄 it is
interesting though--I don't think either is clearly superior.

It doesn't really matter to me because I've ridden so many miles in so
many cities that nothing really surprises or disturbs me...😉

In Gothenburg (and Amsterdam for that matter), the lanes work because
there are quite a few cyclists and the lanes are integrated very well with
the motorised traffic, including their own stoplights.

American bike lanes are usually just a stripe painted on the side of the
road, that ends before intersections quite often. I find this quite silly
seeing as the really dangerous part of biking with autos is the jockying
at stoplights. A lot of cyclists stay far to the right even at lights and
become for many motorists--invisible targets. I'm of the school that it's
safest to occupy the lane when you can keep up with traffic--and that
includes intersections. Behaving like a car is the best way to get treated
like one--that's old news to most folks posting here of course 😉

Unfortunately, a lot of recreational cyclists are
intimidated by doing this, and often don't know it's within their rights
to ride like this, motorists especially get annoyed in cities like where
I'm living ATM, Nashville--where most cyclists ride illegally on the
sidewalks or on the left side of the road. (!) We do have some new bike
lanes which I find unnecessary for my personal habits--but I think are
good "training wheels" for a lot of the newcomers to bicycling around
here. The lanes have directional arrows (I know I know 🙂) and encourage
riding on the street and with the flow of traffic--habits that folks can
apply to non-striped roads.

When I was in Chicago, I'd often avoid the bike paths if I wanted to get
somewhere fast and use the regular streets, the paths being clogged by
geniuses on bikes and blades who think it's a good idea to listen to
headphones at full volume and cluelessly block traffic. LOL

"maxo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My favourite bike city in the states is Chicago! Lots of everyday normal
folks ride--not just the crunchy granola types. There are plenty of bike
lanes, and motorists--as aggressive as they usually are in the big city,
seem to tolerate cyclists. The city also has installed bike racks, real
solid brilliant ones, almost everywhere! I find that more important than
the bike lines almost. Chicago's also flat--so you can ride whatever piece
of junk you have laying around and not worry too much about theft.

Thanks for the kind words on my home city.

I was surprised to see Paris on the original troll's list. I haven't biked
when I've visited there, but there didn't seem to be a particularly high
amount of bicycling and the traffic didn't seem particularly
bicycle-friendly. Outside Paris (and I don't mean the suburbs) there seemed
to be both more biking and a more bike-friendly atmosphere. This impression
is based on relatively brief visits, so it may not be accurate.

--
---
Mike Kruger
Blog: http://journals.aol.com/mikekr/ZbicyclistsZlog/

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Red Cloud said:

1. Hamburg

2. Rome

3. London

4. paris

5. Other European big and small cities

These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders,

I doubt it.
Here in Europe we usually consider Holland as the best example of how to
plan and build for bicycle commuters.

I forgot Holland!!! I even believe that HOlland could be the best biker
nation on earth.

"cheg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<6Wjvc.41027$Ly.26887@attbi_s01>...

Quoted message said:

"Red Cloud" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

1. Hamburg

2. Rome

3. London

4. paris

5. Other European big and small cities

These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders, and most
Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the worst place for
biker. The reason is that in America most folks do not ride a bike.
As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of American population are relying
bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that number of population
relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are quite high.

I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will. I bet that it's not
going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a hugh bike populations verse
a sole rider in big street in US.

I'd take Seattle over Rome any day for bike commuting. Seattle does not have the
plague of moped riders talking on cel phones filling every gap in the car
traffic.

Do you see a lots bikers in Seattle?

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

I doubt it.
Here in Europe we usually consider Holland as the best example of how
to plan and build for bicycle commuters.

How much of it is actually planned? I lived in Almere and Amsterdam. I
thought the bike paths (and roads generally) in Almere were designed by
people on acid. And Amsterdam wasn't planned, it's old and organic (not
that that's a bad thing).

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Red Cloud said:

1. Hamburg

2. Rome

3. London

4. paris

5. Other European big and small cities

Have you tried to ride in these cities, or are you just assuming that,
since they are in Europe, they must be better than anything the US has to
offer? Conversely, if you try riding in New York, or (so I am told)
Seattle, or even Philadelphia, you might find that they can be exceptional
places to ride.

Easy to assume European cities are more friendly to bikers than any
American cities. Nobody can't deny fact. Seattle or NY or Phil can't be call
as the biker city cuz their residents do not depend on bike much unlike where
you see a signficant portion of Europeans are depending on bike.

"S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson said:

Red Cloud said:

1. Hamburg

2. Rome

3. London

4. paris

5. Other European big and small cities

Have you tried to ride in these cities, or are you just assuming that,
since they are in Europe, they must be better than anything the US
has to offer?

I hate it when I click on an unread post and then actually consider its
content, BEFORE noting the author.

Bill "Red Cloud Troll" S.

Just hate yourself moron.