Re: Why Ritalin Rules

Atlas wrote:

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Atlas <[email hidden]>
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Subject:
Re: Why Ritalin Rules
Date:
Sat, 16 Aug 2003 09:31:31 -0500
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Doug said:

Cause it's cheap and effective when correctly administered.

It's cheaper than cocaine - and chemically almost the same
thing.

Ritalin parent: " My kid drinks 15 cans of sodapop everyday, eats
poptarts for breakfast, doritos for lunch, and frozen TV dinners in
the evening. Instead of exercising and playing outside, he plays
Nintendo after school for 4 hours, and then watches TV for 2 hours.
He's bouncing off the walls, and won't pay attention in school. And
while I guess we could correct the problem through diet and exercise,
it's much easier to just shove a pill down his throat. It's faster
too. AND the insurance pays for it!"

Yippee!

Atlas
ZITAT AUS

You are a liar. Ritalin is a medicament. Your stories are [censored]. You are
of the same type as Vogelsang, the known liar and forger:
http://www.ariplex.com/ama/am_voge.htm

x-no-archive: yes

Doug said:

Cause it's cheap and effective when correctly administered.

It's cheaper than cocaine - and chemically almost the same
thing.

Ritalin parent: " My kid drinks 15 cans of sodapop everyday, eats
poptarts for breakfast, doritos for lunch, and frozen TV dinners in
the evening. Instead of exercising and playing outside, he plays
Nintendo after school for 4 hours, and then watches TV for 2 hours.
He's bouncing off the walls, and won't pay attention in school. And
while I guess we could correct the problem through diet and exercise,
it's much easier to just shove a pill down his throat. It's faster
too. AND the insurance pays for it!"

Yippee!

Atlas

Atlas said:

x-no-archive: yes

Doug said:

Cause it's cheap and effective when correctly administered.

It's cheaper than cocaine - and chemically almost the same
thing.

Ritalin parent: " My kid drinks 15 cans of sodapop everyday, eats
poptarts for breakfast, doritos for lunch, and frozen TV dinners in
the evening. Instead of exercising and playing outside, he plays
Nintendo after school for 4 hours, and then watches TV for 2 hours.
He's bouncing off the walls, and won't pay attention in school. And
while I guess we could correct the problem through diet and exercise,
it's much easier to just shove a pill down his throat. It's faster
too. AND the insurance pays for it!"

My son ate vegetables, chicken, lots of fresh fish, moderate amounts of
fruit juices (too much sugar), exercised regularly (swim team, baseball,
soccer, track) and still cannot focus on one subject for more than a few
seconds w/o medications.

Atlas repeats a myth.

"Atlas" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Doug said:

Cause it's cheap and effective when correctly administered.

It's cheaper than cocaine - and chemically almost the same
thing.

Ritalin parent: " My kid drinks 15 cans of sodapop everyday, eats
poptarts for breakfast, doritos for lunch, and frozen TV dinners in
the evening. Instead of exercising and playing outside, he plays
Nintendo after school for 4 hours, and then watches TV for 2 hours.
He's bouncing off the walls, and won't pay attention in school. And
while I guess we could correct the problem through diet and exercise,
it's much easier to just shove a pill down his throat. It's faster
too. AND the insurance pays for it!"

Yippee!

Atlas

You ignoramus.

--

Robert Bronsing

But that's okay, see the children bleed
It'll look great on the TV

Atlas wrote:

ZITAT AN
From:
Atlas <[email hidden]>
Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative
Subject:
Re: Why Ritalin Rules
Date:
Sat, 16 Aug 2003 16:11:06 -0500
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Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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Robert Bronsing said:

You ignoramus.

Thank you for that well thought out, and well crafted
rebuttle. Always a pleasure to have such a meaningful conversation
with such an intellectual.

<PLONK!>

Atlas
ZITAT AUS

You are a member of the naturopath mafia. You are abusing this newsgroup for
commercial advertizing and for support of quackery.

Robert Bronsing said:

"Atlas" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Doug said:

Cause it's cheap and effective when correctly administered.

It's cheaper than cocaine - and chemically almost the same
thing.

Ritalin parent: " My kid drinks 15 cans of sodapop everyday, eats
poptarts for breakfast, doritos for lunch, and frozen TV dinners in
the evening. Instead of exercising and playing outside, he plays
Nintendo after school for 4 hours, and then watches TV for 2 hours.
He's bouncing off the walls, and won't pay attention in school. And
while I guess we could correct the problem through diet and exercise,
it's much easier to just shove a pill down his throat. It's faster
too. AND the insurance pays for it!"

Yippee!

Atlas

You ignoramus.

Agreed.

Atlas is so 1990's that it reeks.

x-no-archive: yes

Robert Bronsing said:

You ignoramus.

Thank you for that well thought out, and well crafted
rebuttle. Always a pleasure to have such a meaningful conversation
with such an intellectual.

<PLONK!>

Atlas

x-no-archive: yes

fred & michele said:

So every parent of a child with ADHD/ADD is to blame for the kid's
problem???

Did I say that, Michele?

Quoted message said:

I'll grant that no doubt some kids are misdiagnosed & would
respond favorably to proper diet & exercise in lieu of any meds. I also
believe a lousy lifestyle can exacerbate an already existing condition.

Mostly agreed. The crux of this issue resides in the etiology
of the so-called "condition". Is it due to poor diet and exercise?
And if so, can many (if not most) of the "diagnosed" children be
managed without resorting to psychotropics?

Quoted message said:

But that wouldn't explain the parents who have tried EVERYTHING else (from
punishment, special diets that eliminate additives, getting the kid to be
physically active, spending beaucoup time with the child, etc. etc., etc.) &
finally try Ritalin as a last resort.

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

And your assumption that many, many
parents haven't tried other options before Ritalin or Adderall is alarming
coming from somebody who should know better.

Actually, Michele - my comments are probably pretty accurate.
Most parents probably have NOT tried diet and exercise. It's much
much easier to simply give the kid a pill. It's a neat and clean
"fix"...eventhough the all natural approach very well could have
worked for countless kids.

If even ONE child was (improperly) put on Ritalin, that's one
too many.

And by the way, I do know better. That's why I'm not going to
sit by and allow this [censored] to occur without making some noise.

Quoted message said:

One could just as logically assume that many of your patients could forgo
your treatments if they'd just exercise & eat right. After all, many of the
problems that people go to DC's for are the result of lousy physical
conditioning & lifestyle. But maybe they figure they'll just get an
adjustment because it's "much easier" & the insurance pays for it?

Eating right and exercising are definitely some of the keys to
a healthy spine. However, people still suffer mishaps. They will get
whiplash from car wrecks, herniate discs from improper lifting, get
carpal tunnel syndrome from abnormal posture (of which there are
130,000,000 combinations thereof) and repetative stress, have
structural problems (such as scoliosis, degenerative disc disease,
etc..) - all of which can be helped by chiropractic....and well beyond
the benefits obtained from eating right and exercising.

Quoted message said:

But that would be jumping to conclusions as much as your post did.......😉

My post was pretty tongue in cheek. Perhaps you missed that.

By the way, (and not to change the subject or anything, but)
do you have any recommendations for massage lotions and/or oils?
Also, what do you think of Earthlight massage therapy tables?

Atlas

"Atlas" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

Robert Bronsing said:

You ignoramus.

Thank you for that well thought out, and well crafted
rebuttle. Always a pleasure to have such a meaningful conversation
with such an intellectual.

<PLONK!>

Remarks as ignorant and stupid as the one you posted there are not deserving
of any thought other than "ignoramus". I do hope you're serious about
plonking me.

--

Robert Bronsing

But that's okay, see the children bleed
It'll look great on the TV

In said:

x-no-archive: yes

Doug said:

Cause it's cheap and effective when correctly administered.

It's cheaper than cocaine - and chemically almost the same
thing.

Riiiiight.

Aside, of course, that the two molecules have almost nothing
in common besides having carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and
nitrogen in them. I suppose that means that they're "chemically
almost the same" as tryptophan.

Of course, I'm willing to be convinced. How about some
structure diagrams of the two molecules, pointing out the
similarities?

--
| Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make |
| it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay |
| for new products or new versions of existing products." |
end

"Jan" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Why Ritalin Rules
From: "Robert Bronsing" [email hidden]
Date: 8/16/2003 7:35 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Atlas" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:05:06 GMT, "Doug"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>Cause it's cheap and effective when correctly administered.

It's cheaper than cocaine - and chemically almost the same
thing.

Ritalin parent: " My kid drinks 15 cans of sodapop everyday, eats
poptarts for breakfast, doritos for lunch, and frozen TV dinners in
the evening. Instead of exercising and playing outside, he plays
Nintendo after school for 4 hours, and then watches TV for 2 hours.
He's bouncing off the walls, and won't pay attention in school. And
while I guess we could correct the problem through diet and exercise,
it's much easier to just shove a pill down his throat. It's faster
too. AND the insurance pays for it!"

Yippee!

Atlas

You ignoramus.

Your reaction to the truth.

That you would claim 'truth' in Atlas' claims casts serious doubts on your
claimed previous role as an educator of young children.

--

Robert Bronsing

But that's okay, see the children bleed
It'll look great on the TV

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Why Ritalin Rules
From: "Robert Bronsing" [email hidden]
Date: 8/16/2003 3:28 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Why Ritalin Rules
From: "Robert Bronsing" [email hidden]
Date: 8/16/2003 7:35 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Atlas" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:05:06 GMT, "Doug"
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >Cause it's cheap and effective when correctly administered.
>
> It's cheaper than cocaine - and chemically almost the same
> thing.
>
> Ritalin parent: " My kid drinks 15 cans of sodapop everyday, eats
> poptarts for breakfast, doritos for lunch, and frozen TV dinners in
> the evening. Instead of exercising and playing outside, he plays
> Nintendo after school for 4 hours, and then watches TV for 2 hours.
> He's bouncing off the walls, and won't pay attention in school. And
> while I guess we could correct the problem through diet and exercise,
> it's much easier to just shove a pill down his throat. It's faster
> too. AND the insurance pays for it!"
>
> Yippee!
>
>
>
>
> Atlas

You ignoramus.

Your reaction to the truth.

That you would claim 'truth' in Atlas' claims casts serious doubts on your
claimed previous role as an educator of young children.

You must not be familar with American kids. BTW, I had kids at age three. Some
of them were on Ritilan, even though it plainly states NOT to give under age
six.

Doctors freely prescribe it upon request from the parents.

You best stick with what you know and let those with actual experience tell it
like it is.

Jan

MHA is a discussion group to discuss alternative health modalities. I choose to
discuss the issue of whether Jan Drew actually had mercury poisoning.

Ahola, Rich

Jan

Atlas said:

x-no-archive: yes

fred & michele said:

So every parent of a child with ADHD/ADD is to blame for the kid's
problem???

Did I say that, Michele?

Quoted message said:

I'll grant that no doubt some kids are misdiagnosed & would
respond favorably to proper diet & exercise in lieu of any meds. I also
believe a lousy lifestyle can exacerbate an already existing condition.

Mostly agreed. The crux of this issue resides in the etiology
of the so-called "condition". Is it due to poor diet and exercise?
And if so, can many (if not most) of the "diagnosed" children be
managed without resorting to psychotropics?

Quoted message said:

But that wouldn't explain the parents who have tried EVERYTHING else (from
punishment, special diets that eliminate additives, getting the kid to be
physically active, spending beaucoup time with the child, etc. etc., etc.) &
finally try Ritalin as a last resort.

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

And your assumption that many, many
parents haven't tried other options before Ritalin or Adderall is alarming
coming from somebody who should know better.

Actually, Michele - my comments are probably pretty accurate.
Most parents probably have NOT tried diet and exercise.

Maybe in your narrow part of the world. The parents I have encountered
in 15 years of dealing with AD/HD have tried *everything.*

It's much

Quoted message said:

much easier to simply give the kid a pill. It's a neat and clean
"fix"...eventhough the all natural approach very well could have
worked for countless kids.

Again, generally, parents are not like that, and Atlas is spreading a myth.

Quoted message said:

If even ONE child was (improperly) put on Ritalin, that's one
too many.

And by the way, I do know better. That's why I'm not going to
sit by and allow this [censored] to occur without making some noise.

You have borborygmus?

Snip

Rich said:

Most parents are reluctant to give their children medication
unnecessarily and would love to have a different option.

Bingo!

Besides us, the parents I know, have all anguished over medicating their
kids. I have yet to see anyone who was gleeful over it.

fred & michele said:

"Atlas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

fred & michele said:

So every parent of a child with ADHD/ADD is to blame for the kid's
problem???

Did I say that, Michele?

Perhaps I missed your tongue in cheek delivery when I read :
*****Ritalin parent: " My kid drinks 15 cans of sodapop everyday, eats
poptarts for breakfast, doritos for lunch, and frozen TV dinners in the
evening. Instead of exercising and playing outside, he plays
Nintendo after school for 4 hours, and then watches TV for 2 hours. He's
bouncing off the walls, and won't pay attention in school. And while I
guess we could correct the problem through diet and exercise, it's much
easier to just shove a pill down his throat. It's faster
too. AND the insurance pays for it!"*****

I failed to see the :^) when I read it too.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll grant that no doubt some kids are misdiagnosed & would
respond favorably to proper diet & exercise in lieu of any meds. I also
believe a lousy lifestyle can exacerbate an already existing condition.

Mostly agreed. The crux of this issue resides in the etiology
of the so-called "condition". Is it due to poor diet and exercise?

Research from a variety of sources points to other causes when the diagnosis
is really ADD/ADHD. Once again, I'd agree that a lousy diet & not enough
exercise doesn't help the condition, but I haven't seen reliable studies
that have established these as factors CAUSING ADD/ADHD.

Current research is pointing to brain differences in handling of
dopamine. I recall a sleep study several years ago where L-dopa was used
for restless leg syndrome (?) and it wound up alleviating the symptoms
of AD/HD.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And if so, can many (if not most) of the "diagnosed" children be
managed without resorting to psychotropics?

Studies (& the cases I've seen) indicate that children properly diagnosed
with ADD/ADHD respond well to drug therapy.

Agreed. The response is well over 90% to all medications.

The other alternatives don't

Quoted message said:

seem to work by themselves in the majority of ADD/ADHD cases.

Shown by the Multi-modal study several years ago.

Would it hurt

Quoted message said:

to incorporate a nutritious diet, exercise, & other complementary modalities
(like biofeedback & hypnosis, massage, counseling & behavior modification,
acupuncture, & chiropractic to mention just a few) into an overall plan of
treatment? Of course not. But if we insist that meds be excluded from
treating kids with ADD/ADHD we would be limiting the help we can offer them
to let them function & achieve their potential.

Exactly my point. The other treatments may actually work better because
of appropriate medication.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But that wouldn't explain the parents who have tried EVERYTHING else

(from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

punishment, special diets that eliminate additives, getting the kid to be
physically active, spending beaucoup time with the child, etc. etc.,

etc.) &

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

finally try Ritalin as a last resort.

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

And your assumption that many, many
parents haven't tried other options before Ritalin or Adderall is

alarming

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

coming from somebody who should know better.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Actually, Michele - my comments are probably pretty accurate.
Most parents probably have NOT tried diet and exercise. It's much
much easier to simply give the kid a pill. It's a neat and clean
"fix"

To the contrary, I've seen the majority of parents I've encountered try
other things before giving their child meds. I've seen parents put their
children on diets without additives -- cut out sugar -- take their children
from professional to professional looking for answers other than medication
before finally using drug therapy.

That is my 15 year history of personal experience in a nut shell.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

even though the all natural approach very well could have
worked for countless kids.

If even ONE child was (improperly) put on Ritalin, that's one
too many.

There will always be at least ONE kid either misdiagnosed or mistreated --
even if that mistreatment is a kid who should've been put on Ritalin &
wasn't.

Which, according to two Surgeon General reposts is the more likely
scenario.

Quoted message said:

There are people improperly put on many meds -- it doesn't mean the
treatment should be scrapped. Just as there are people who SHOULD be on a
medication for some medical condition & they aren't.

Quoted message said:

And by the way, I do know better. That's why I'm not going to
sit by and allow this [censored] to occur without making some noise.

Saying that parents simply drug their kids without trying other things first
shows otherwise.

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

One could just as logically assume that many of your patients could forgo
your treatments if they'd just exercise & eat right. After all, many of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

problems that people go to DC's for are the result of lousy physical
conditioning & lifestyle. But maybe they figure they'll just get an
adjustment because it's "much easier" & the insurance pays for it?

Eating right and exercising are definitely some of the keys to
a healthy spine. However, people still suffer mishaps. They will get
whiplash from car wrecks, herniate discs from improper lifting, get
carpal tunnel syndrome from abnormal posture (of which there are
130,000,000 combinations thereof) and repetative stress, have
structural problems (such as scoliosis, degenerative disc disease,
etc..) - all of which can be helped by chiropractic....and well beyond
the benefits obtained from eating right and exercising.

Quoted message said:

And children with accurately diagnosed ADD/ADHD have problems that are well
beyond the benefits obtained from eating right & exercising. I guess my
tongue in cheek comment was as vague as yours? <G>

😉

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But that would be jumping to conclusions as much as your post

did.......😉

snip

Atlas said:

x-no-archive: yes

Robert Bronsing said:

You ignoramus.

Thank you for that well thought out, and well crafted
rebuttle. Always a pleasure to have such a meaningful conversation
with such an intellectual.

Speaking of intellectuals, did you ever hear the old story about when
one flames someone for word usage, they should make absolutely certain
that they are using all of their words correctly?

Now, post your rebuttal.

Robert Bronsing said:

"Jan" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Why Ritalin Rules
From: "Robert Bronsing" [email hidden]
Date: 8/16/2003 7:35 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Atlas" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:05:06 GMT, "Doug"
><[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>
>>Cause it's cheap and effective when correctly administered.
>
>It's cheaper than cocaine - and chemically almost the same
>thing.
>
>Ritalin parent: " My kid drinks 15 cans of sodapop everyday, eats
>poptarts for breakfast, doritos for lunch, and frozen TV dinners in
>the evening. Instead of exercising and playing outside, he plays
>Nintendo after school for 4 hours, and then watches TV for 2 hours.
>He's bouncing off the walls, and won't pay attention in school. And
>while I guess we could correct the problem through diet and exercise,
>it's much easier to just shove a pill down his throat. It's faster
>too. AND the insurance pays for it!"
>
>Yippee!
>
>
>
>
>Atlas

You ignoramus.

Your reaction to the truth.

That you would claim 'truth' in Atlas' claims casts serious doubts on your
claimed previous role as an educator of young children.

Jan had 38 years of experience as a babysitter, and became an expert
over how parents reached their decisions when they were not near her.

Hawki63 said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Why Ritalin Rules
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 8/16/2003 4:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time

Quoted message said:

BTW, I had kids at age three. Some
of them were on Ritilan, even though it plainly states NOT to give under age
six.

again...not for you to judge what other folks do with or for their own kids....

Quoted message said:

Doctors freely prescribe it upon request from the parents.

I believe Michelle pointed out that this may be true...

however...for some kids it is a lifesaver..for some adults as well...

not your call to judge what others should be doing (in their mouth)..or
taking...if you didn't like it..you always could have refused to take any kid
who didn't follow the rules you had set...

dumb..but you had that choice..

Quoted message said:

actual experience

here we go with the actual experience BS...

I have actual experience of the 15 years, 24/7 type with my son.

She refuses to openly discuss it with me. She is a COWard.

fred & michele said:

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Of course you reported those doctors writing out scripts for Ritalin for
kids under 3 years old to the state medical board? You advised the parents
of these under-3-year-olds to sue the doc for malpractice?

And you certainly reported parents who requested Ritalin for their kids who
didn't need it to the proper authorities for child abuse, right?

If what you post is actually true, your position as a day care operator
obligated you to report suspected child abuse. Did you obey these laws? Or
was this type of abuse okay with you?

Jan wil lnever answer these questions unless she sees them. She won't as
she is an intellectual COWard who hides behind killfiles.