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Re: WHY???

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
7 June 2007
Last activity
20 June 2007
Original author
Ms P
Posts
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  1. In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Dan Abel said:


    My boss had a quick comeback when somebody asked her how often to do
    backups, "How much can you afford to lose?".

    After spending US$4,000 it may be wise to check on options. There are
    drives with removable media. There are tape backups. But it might be
    cheaper just to buy a hard drive, do a backup and store the drive
    somewhere offsite that is safe and has good climate control. You can
    have all the backups in the world where you work at and when it floods
    or catches fire it's all gone.

    I make my living backing up data for my employer (Temple University).
    Doing data backups is something I know a lot about; I have spent years
    studying this subject and working on it, both at home and at my office.
    For work, I manage a system of servers, disk drive, and tape libraries
    that is used exclusively for backing up several terabytes worth of data
    nightly over a network. At home, I simply back up my files to an
    external hard drive once a month and take that hard drive to my office
    for safe off-site storage.

    I could, and should, write a book on doing backups and disaster
    recovery, but a fellow I know has already beaten me to it. To put in a
    plug, feel free to check out http://www.backupcentral.com for for tons
    of info, as well as a link to W. Curtis Preston's book on the subject.

  2. "Stan Horwitz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:stan-

    Quoted message said:

    I make my living backing up data for my employer (Temple University).
    Doing data backups is something I know a lot about; I have spent years
    studying this subject and working on it, both at home and at my office.
    For work, I manage a system of servers, disk drive, and tape libraries
    that is used exclusively for backing up several terabytes worth of data
    nightly over a network. At home, I simply back up my files to an
    external hard drive once a month and take that hard drive to my office
    for safe off-site storage.

    I could have done with your expertise in the past🙂 However I do backups of
    my database at work every day and copy it my laptop which leaves with me
    every evening.

    I now have an external HD and I have just completed a total copy of the HD
    on my laptop.

    I plan to backup to my external HD once a month.

    What say you O Backup Master? 🙂)))

  3. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
    says...

    Quoted message said:


    "Stan Horwitz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:stan-

    Quoted message said:

    I make my living backing up data for my employer (Temple University).
    Doing data backups is something I know a lot about; I have spent years
    studying this subject and working on it, both at home and at my office.
    For work, I manage a system of servers, disk drive, and tape libraries
    that is used exclusively for backing up several terabytes worth of data
    nightly over a network. At home, I simply back up my files to an
    external hard drive once a month and take that hard drive to my office
    for safe off-site storage.

    I could have done with your expertise in the past🙂 However I do backups of
    my database at work every day and copy it my laptop which leaves with me
    every evening.

    I now have an external HD and I have just completed a total copy of the HD
    on my laptop.

    I plan to backup to my external HD once a month.

    What say you O Backup Master? 🙂)))

    Large and fast external hard disks are so cheap these days, as are
    network drives, they are excellent solutions. For off-site backup I use
    Quicken Online Backup which automatically copies specified folders and
    files (including Quicken and QuickBooks data) to a secure remote site
    every night. It's not suited for backup of really huge amounts of data,
    but I use it for about 5 GB and it works well.

    Equally important as backups is, IMHO, preventing the need to use your
    backups by keeping the system in good health. I have been using System
    Mechanic 7.0 on my 2 desktops and 1 laptop and all three systems have
    been extremely stable, no crashes or corrupted/lost data.

    --
    Peter Aitken

  4. "Peter A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
    says...

    Quoted message said:


    "Stan Horwitz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:stan-

    Quoted message said:

    I make my living backing up data for my employer (Temple University).
    Doing data backups is something I know a lot about; I have spent years
    studying this subject and working on it, both at home and at my office.
    For work, I manage a system of servers, disk drive, and tape libraries
    that is used exclusively for backing up several terabytes worth of data
    nightly over a network. At home, I simply back up my files to an
    external hard drive once a month and take that hard drive to my office
    for safe off-site storage.

    I could have done with your expertise in the past🙂 However I do backups
    of
    my database at work every day and copy it my laptop which leaves with me
    every evening.

    I now have an external HD and I have just completed a total copy of the
    HD
    on my laptop.

    I plan to backup to my external HD once a month.

    What say you O Backup Master? 🙂)))

    Large and fast external hard disks are so cheap these days, as are
    network drives, they are excellent solutions. For off-site backup I use
    Quicken Online Backup which automatically copies specified folders and
    files (including Quicken and QuickBooks data) to a secure remote site
    every night. It's not suited for backup of really huge amounts of data,
    but I use it for about 5 GB and it works well.

    Equally important as backups is, IMHO, preventing the need to use your
    backups by keeping the system in good health. I have been using System
    Mechanic 7.0 on my 2 desktops and 1 laptop and all three systems have
    been extremely stable, no crashes or corrupted/lost data.

    Agreed!

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    T said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
    says...

    Quoted message said:


    "Omelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    >> Hm... This may be a stupid question, but can't you simply hook multiple
    > computers into a single backup HD thru a USB hub?

    Speaking of which, this very day we bought a 500 gb external USB HD for my
    backups (and the whole county's I reckon) LOL

    David just backs up onto the server🙂

    I am just spoiled🙂)

    At work we have a 1TB server backing up a bunch of other servers. Much
    more effective than tape.

    Tape is still the cheapest backup media per gigabyte, especially if you
    need to do long-term and/or off-site storage.

    Except for the fact that tape is only recoverabel in about 69% of the
    actual cases.

    Every month we dump the contents of that 1TB drive to an external unit
    and then store it in our archives. We cycles 13 drives, one is pulled
    and kept at the end of a year.

    The problem we ran into was that tape could NOT keep up with the volume
    of information on some of our servers. It gets prohibitively more
    expensive the higher you go on tape capacity.

    Put it this way, the hard drives we use are 350GB and cost around $100,
    a DLT cartridge for 80GB is near $70. So in this case tape is most
    definitely NOT cheaper.

    The other thing is we looked at studies that showed the lifetime of
    tapes. They're pretty fussy beasts. Hard drives that aren't powered on
    actually last LONGER.

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Dan Abel said:


    My boss had a quick comeback when somebody asked her how often to do
    backups, "How much can you afford to lose?".

    After spending US$4,000 it may be wise to check on options. There are
    drives with removable media. There are tape backups. But it might be
    cheaper just to buy a hard drive, do a backup and store the drive
    somewhere offsite that is safe and has good climate control. You can
    have all the backups in the world where you work at and when it floods
    or catches fire it's all gone.

    I make my living backing up data for my employer (Temple University).
    Doing data backups is something I know a lot about; I have spent years
    studying this subject and working on it, both at home and at my office.
    For work, I manage a system of servers, disk drive, and tape libraries
    that is used exclusively for backing up several terabytes worth of data
    nightly over a network. At home, I simply back up my files to an
    external hard drive once a month and take that hard drive to my office
    for safe off-site storage.

    I could, and should, write a book on doing backups and disaster
    recovery, but a fellow I know has already beaten me to it. To put in a
    plug, feel free to check out http://www.backupcentral.com for for tons
    of info, as well as a link to W. Curtis Preston's book on the subject.

    Ah, a universtiy IT environment. They're awash in money. I work in a
    government IT unit, we run on a shoe string.

  7. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
    says...

    Quoted message said:


    "Stan Horwitz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:stan-

    Quoted message said:

    I make my living backing up data for my employer (Temple University).
    Doing data backups is something I know a lot about; I have spent years
    studying this subject and working on it, both at home and at my office.
    For work, I manage a system of servers, disk drive, and tape libraries
    that is used exclusively for backing up several terabytes worth of data
    nightly over a network. At home, I simply back up my files to an
    external hard drive once a month and take that hard drive to my office
    for safe off-site storage.

    I could have done with your expertise in the past🙂 However I do backups of
    my database at work every day and copy it my laptop which leaves with me
    every evening.

    I now have an external HD and I have just completed a total copy of the HD
    on my laptop.

    I plan to backup to my external HD once a month.

    What say you O Backup Master? 🙂)))

    Large and fast external hard disks are so cheap these days, as are
    network drives, they are excellent solutions. For off-site backup I use
    Quicken Online Backup which automatically copies specified folders and
    files (including Quicken and QuickBooks data) to a secure remote site
    every night. It's not suited for backup of really huge amounts of data,
    but I use it for about 5 GB and it works well.

    Equally important as backups is, IMHO, preventing the need to use your
    backups by keeping the system in good health. I have been using System
    Mechanic 7.0 on my 2 desktops and 1 laptop and all three systems have
    been extremely stable, no crashes or corrupted/lost data.

    There are two problems with online backup services that make me very
    leary.

    The first is cost. They're great for low data volume but we've got a
    couple hundred gig worth of databases that need to be backed up
    regularly. Online services would cost us a small fortune.

    The other issue I have with online products is that the market is so
    volatile right now that they could get sucked up by someone who thinks
    the price they're charging for that 5GB is too low, then you're up the
    creek.

  8. In article <[email hidden]>,

    T said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Dan Abel said:


    My boss had a quick comeback when somebody asked her how often to do
    backups, "How much can you afford to lose?".

    After spending US$4,000 it may be wise to check on options. There are
    drives with removable media. There are tape backups. But it might be
    cheaper just to buy a hard drive, do a backup and store the drive
    somewhere offsite that is safe and has good climate control. You can
    have all the backups in the world where you work at and when it floods
    or catches fire it's all gone.

    I make my living backing up data for my employer (Temple University).
    Doing data backups is something I know a lot about; I have spent years
    studying this subject and working on it, both at home and at my office.
    For work, I manage a system of servers, disk drive, and tape libraries
    that is used exclusively for backing up several terabytes worth of data
    nightly over a network. At home, I simply back up my files to an
    external hard drive once a month and take that hard drive to my office
    for safe off-site storage.

    I could, and should, write a book on doing backups and disaster
    recovery, but a fellow I know has already beaten me to it. To put in a
    plug, feel free to check out http://www.backupcentral.com for for tons
    of info, as well as a link to W. Curtis Preston's book on the subject.

    Ah, a universtiy IT environment. They're awash in money. I work in a
    government IT unit, we run on a shoe string.

    Awash in money? I guess its all relative, but every time I turn around,
    I am being asked for ways to save money.

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Ophelia said:

    "Stan Horwitz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:stan-

    Quoted message said:

    I make my living backing up data for my employer (Temple University).
    Doing data backups is something I know a lot about; I have spent years
    studying this subject and working on it, both at home and at my office.
    For work, I manage a system of servers, disk drive, and tape libraries
    that is used exclusively for backing up several terabytes worth of data
    nightly over a network. At home, I simply back up my files to an
    external hard drive once a month and take that hard drive to my office
    for safe off-site storage.

    I could have done with your expertise in the past🙂 However I do backups of
    my database at work every day and copy it my laptop which leaves with me
    every evening.

    I now have an external HD and I have just completed a total copy of the HD
    on my laptop.

    I plan to backup to my external HD once a month.

    What say you O Backup Master? 🙂)))

    My only comment is to make sure you are not violating any corporate
    policy by backing up business data onto a machine that goes home with
    you at night. In some business environment, that's grounds for
    termination. On the other hand, from a technical perspective, your
    backup method is fine, but do test to verify that the data you think you
    have backed up is actually usable.

  10. In article <[email hidden]>,

    T said:


    The other issue I have with online products is that the market is so
    volatile right now that they could get sucked up by someone who thinks
    the price they're charging for that 5GB is too low, then you're up the
    creek.

    Another issue to consider is restore time, which is a major issue for
    recovering data in an active business environment. Backing up a few GB
    worth of data to an online service via the typical broadband connection
    might work for a home computer, but for a corporate environment where
    time is money, the time to recover the data might be way too long.

  11. In article <[email hidden]>,

    T said:

    Except for the fact that tape is only recoverabel in about 69% of the
    actual cases.

    Where did you get that number? 69% is way too low for modern tape media.
    I have been doing backups to tape for many years and I have never
    encountered a situation where we cannot get data back off a bad tape. I
    do occasionally find bad tapes in my inventory, but I take them out of
    circulation before much data gets written to them. In fact, that
    situation happened this morning.

    Quoted message said:

    Every month we dump the contents of that 1TB drive to an external unit
    and then store it in our archives. We cycles 13 drives, one is pulled
    and kept at the end of a year.

    The problem we ran into was that tape could NOT keep up with the volume
    of information on some of our servers. It gets prohibitively more
    expensive the higher you go on tape capacity.

    That depends. My problem is that I can't get data to my 22 tape drives
    fast enough. All my tape drives are capable of writing data much faster
    than they receive data. I plan to address that problem this summer.

    Quoted message said:

    Put it this way, the hard drives we use are 350GB and cost around $100,
    a DLT cartridge for 80GB is near $70. So in this case tape is most
    definitely NOT cheaper.

    DLT media is old technology and there's no way a DLT cartridge costs as
    much as $70. The latest DLT media can hold 160GB of data native and
    320GB compressed and you can buy a single cartridge from
    http://www.cdw.com for $46.00, but buying in bulk will yield lower
    prices.

    Two weeks ago, I received a tape new library that uses LTO-3 cartridges,
    which hold around 400GB native and 800GB compressed. I also have an
    order pending in my purchasing department for 150 LTO-3 cartridges at
    around $60 each, if I remember correctly.

    Quoted message said:

    The other thing is we looked at studies that showed the lifetime of
    tapes. They're pretty fussy beasts. Hard drives that aren't powered on
    actually last LONGER.

    It depends on the media. Tape isn't powered on either. My main tape
    library uses Sony S-AIT1 media, which costs around $110 per cartridge,
    but I also get around 800GB per cartridge (and I can measure this fairly
    accurately). I can write a 600GB disk image to a single tape cartridge,
    whereas I know of no off-the-shelf disk drives that can hold a disk
    image that large.

    My primary tape library has provision for 925 data cartridges, plus 11
    cleaning cartridges. That's a huge amount of storage and adding on
    another cabinet to hold 300 more cartridges is fairly inexpensive. I
    also have never failed an internal or external disaster recovery audit
    due to bad tapes, or any other reason involving the tape hardware I
    manage. That is saying a lot because I am subject to internal and
    external audits every month to verify that we can recover from a major
    server failure. I can, and do, boast of a 100% success rate.

    In terms of cost, the typical organization will find that in order to do
    backups, they will spend a minimum of five times the amount they spent
    to house the primary copy of their data. Doing backups is an expensive
    proposition when you do it for several terabytes of data across hundreds
    of computers nightly and have to meet lots of regulatory mandates and
    also avoid the dreaded situation of losing backup data.

  12. Stan Horwitz said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Ophelia said:

    "Stan Horwitz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:stan-

    Quoted message said:

    I make my living backing up data for my employer (Temple
    University). Doing data backups is something I know a lot about; I
    have spent years studying this subject and working on it, both at
    home and at my office. For work, I manage a system of servers, disk
    drive, and tape libraries that is used exclusively for backing up
    several terabytes worth of data nightly over a network. At home, I
    simply back up my files to an external hard drive once a month and
    take that hard drive to my office for safe off-site storage.

    I could have done with your expertise in the past🙂 However I do
    backups of my database at work every day and copy it my laptop which
    leaves with me every evening.

    I now have an external HD and I have just completed a total copy of
    the HD on my laptop.

    I plan to backup to my external HD once a month.

    What say you O Backup Master? 🙂)))

    My only comment is to make sure you are not violating any corporate
    policy by backing up business data onto a machine that goes home with
    you at night. In some business environment, that's grounds for
    termination. On the other hand, from a technical perspective, your
    backup method is fine, but do test to verify that the data you think
    you have backed up is actually usable.

    Thanks Stan, I will. I work for the Museums Dept of a Local Council and
    they don't care what we do. If I didn't back up our object database no on
    would🙁 I just coudn't bear to see the loss of those thousands of hours of
    work going down the tube

    We can't have the database on line because it is a specialised DB and our IT
    won't support it. So I do my best to keep it up to scratch.... so to speak.
    Since I am the only one that can 'mend' it I don't know what will happen
    when I retire. I suppose I will have to train someone up but atm no on is
    interested so long as they can find what they want, when they want it.

  13. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    T said:


    The other issue I have with online products is that the market is so
    volatile right now that they could get sucked up by someone who thinks
    the price they're charging for that 5GB is too low, then you're up the
    creek.

    Another issue to consider is restore time, which is a major issue for
    recovering data in an active business environment. Backing up a few GB
    worth of data to an online service via the typical broadband connection
    might work for a home computer, but for a corporate environment where
    time is money, the time to recover the data might be way too long.

    Indeed, before we implemented our rsnapshot server recoveries took
    hours, now they take minutes.

    We also have an imaging server. All the standard loadsets are on that
    box and if a workstation or server dies, we just pop in a boot cd and
    let it restore the original environment.

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