Re: Whiteface Uphill race report

congratulations... your a beast..

Chase

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Way to go, but yea definitely you should train on something that
approximates more closely the race conditions, so your equipment will be
all sorted out. Good job!

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Steve,

Awesome job!!! Congratulations on powering through the pain and making
the summit. Great write-up too. I can relate to the parts about being
short of your goal and having to grapple with those "convenient
opportunities" to call it quits. I ran into one this weekend on a long
Coker ride, but unlike you I took the easy way out.

Nice work.

Tom

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steveyo said:

*I made the first ever attempt to complete the 2005 Whiteface Mountain
Uphill Bike Race (www.whitefacerace.com) last Saturday 6/11/05.

It was unbelievably hard on my 29er. To read a slighty wordy story of
the race go to:
home.nycap.rr.com/rduhan/race2005/

--
steveyo *

Great write-up, and congratulations!

One technical note; I don't think your issue is cadence, or at least,
it's not wheel size. A 29" unicycle is more or less equivalent to a
bike in a "29 gear-inch" gear, which is quite low for a road bike. Most
road bikes don't even have a gear that low. The problem is that you're
not able to spin it fast enough. Partly that is conditioning, and
partly it may be crank length; the KH29 probably ships with either 150mm
or 125mm cranks, both of which are much shorter than typical bike
cranks. I would probably ride 150mm cranks on a climb like that, but as
you get up towards 10% grades, 170mm might even be appropriate.

The Mount Diablo Challenge, which is a similar race out here, has a
unicycle prize category, and the fastest guys are on Cokers and 29ers.
I've known a couple of guys who did it on 24" unicycles, but they've
always been quite slow. Mount Diablo is not quite as steep as your ride
on average, but it includes pitches of up to 14% grade.

Great job finishing!

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A huge accomplishment, Steve! Congratulations!

Is that road open to cyclists during non-race days?

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Way to go Steveyo! I know what it feels like when you're doing a climb
and fighting for survival rather than being able to push yourself for
sake of going faster.

A lot of climbing well is technique. How well can you minimize wasted
energy. How well can you keep the pedals going in a circle rather than
big surges of power on the down stroke with big let ups when the pedals
are vertical. How to be smooth. Once you get the technique the
climbing will be easier and you'll be able to go faster with the same
amount of energy.

Congratulations! A long steep climb is an accomplishment.

I've got two big local road climbs on my todo list. They're not a race.
Just big climbs that I want to be able to say I've done. Time to get
training for them.

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Amazing!

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tholub said:

*Great write-up, and congratulations! *

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

*
One technical note; I don't think your issue is cadence, or at least,
it's not wheel size. A 29" unicycle is more or less equivalent to a
bike in a "29 gear-inch" gear, which is quite low for a road bike.
Most road bikes don't even have a gear that low. The problem is that
you're not able to spin it fast enough. Most road bikes don't even
have a gear that low.*

I don't really get this. All the cyclists who passed me. and even those
going approximately the same speed were pedaling MUCH faster than I was.
Many of the racers were running gear ratios much lower than 1:1, i.e.
less than a wheel rev per full pedal circle.

I really wonder what size wheel was used setting the 1991 Mt. Washington
record of 2:18. I'd bet it was 24" or less.

john_childs said:

*...How well can you keep the pedals going in a circle ...Once you get
the technique the climbing will be easier and you'll be able to go
faster with the same amount of energy. *

Mmmm. Pedaling in a circle. Just practice, right?

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steveyo said:

*Thanks.

I don't really get this. All the cyclists who passed me. and even
those going approximately the same speed were pedaling MUCH faster
than I was. Many of the racers were running gear ratios much lower
than 1:1, i.e. less than a wheel rev per full pedal circle.

I really wonder what size wheel was used setting the 1991 Mt.
Washington record of 2:18. I'd bet it was 24" or less.

Mmmm. Pedaling in a circle. Just practice, right? *

http://tinyurl.com/7lfeb has some interesting discussion.

Endless attention to spinning during each and every training ride,
coupled with lots of ups and downs will do wonders for your spinning.

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Hey Steve, you are an animal!!!😉

Well Done. Those cheers must have been the best prize of all.

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There are pictures from the Whiteface Uphill on this page:

http://tinyurl.com/amewm

Warning, they're not pretty.

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steveyo

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steveyo said:

*Thanks.

I don't really get this. All the cyclists who passed me. and even
those going approximately the same speed were pedaling MUCH faster
than I was. Many of the racers were running gear ratios much lower
than 1:1, i.e. less than a wheel rev per full pedal circle.

*

If you look at Dura-Ace, Shimano's top-end road components, the 10 speed
rear cluster is available with a 12-21 tooth "corn cob" (favored by
racers), and the largest rear cog on the largest cluster is a 27. The 9
speed tops out at a 25 tooth cog. The Dura-Ace double crank is
available only in 53/39, and the Ultegra triple is 52/39/30.

So, the lowest gear you can get with decent Shimano road components
(which is what almost all the road bikes you'll see are using) is 30
teeth front, 27 teeth rear, which on a typical road tire is a little
above 29 gear-inches. And that's only the bikes with triples; the
doubles are pushing a gear around equivalent to a Coker, or even
higher.

You can get a bike with a lower than 1:1 gear ratio if you use mountain
bike components. There are some road bikes which do this, mostly
touring bikes and tandems, but the typical bikes you'll see on the road
have 105, Ultegra, or Dura Ace components, and I don't think there is a
gear lower than 1:1 available with those combinations.

I'm sure you're right that the bikes that pass you are spinning faster
than you, but that's because they're passing you! You should be able to
push your setup at a comparable cadence, given sufficient training,
practice, and sufficiently long cranks.

My anecdotal evidence is that I passed a number of bikes on the 14%
section of Mount Diablo (right at the end of the climb); that was on a
29er with 150mm cranks. And I wasn't one of the fastest unicyclists.

Good luck next year; now you have a time to beat!

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tholub said:

* ...(snip impressive bike gear list)*

I'm sure you know what you're talking about with the bike gear. All I
know is I saw lots of high-end, superlight road bikes, maybe designed
just for hillclimbs, with a 22 or 24 on the front and 28 in the back.

[B]>

Quoted message said:

...I'm sure you're right that the bikes that pass you are spinning
faster than you, but that's because they're passing you! You should
be able to push your setup at a comparable cadence, given sufficient
training, practice, and sufficiently long cranks.
[/B]

Quoted message said:

My anecdotal evidence is that I passed a number of bikes on the 14%
section of Mount Diablo (right at the end of the climb); that was on a
29er with 150mm cranks. And I wasn't one of the fastest
unicyclists.
[/B]

I rode Mt. Diablo once, on a 29er with 140mm cranks. Those cranks were a
little too short. Diablo is a little less steep than your ride, at about
3300' in about 10 miles. A few parts are even flat, and that 14% bit is
only at the very top (ouch).

My experience on that ride was that wheel size = speed. I was bringing
up the rear with Mscalisi, who was on a Coker. The speed we were going
was basically about as slow as we could pedal without becoming too
unstable. Maybe 40-50 rpm or so. Any slower and you start slowing down
on each pedal stroke, and/or falling off a lot. So that was like the
minimum speed we could maintain for long stretches, which was the
maximum our conditioning allowed us to go.

The Coker was faster. Mike would move faster than me. Then we switched
cycles to see how the other would feel. The Coker was still faster.

My conclusion based on that is that *if* the steepness of the road
exceeds your ability to ride above your own personal minimum speed, use
the biggest wheel available (with long cranks! 170 or longer on a
Coker). If your training allows you to go faster than that, only then
should you consider something smaller. But I think I'd stick with at
least the 29er. Maybe use longer cranks, and obviously train on similar
rides.

Thanks for that great, inspiring story! Come on out and ride Mt. Diablo
with us some time. The race is in October, but sometimes groups go there
for "training" rides. My ride up last may was surely one of the hardest
rides I've done, because it was followed by a ride back down. The
downhill was what made me sore, and my 140mm cranks, with no brakes,
were much too short for the dirt trails we took!

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johnfoss said:

I rode Mt. Diablo once, on a 29er with 140mm cranks. Those cranks were
a little too short. Diablo is a little less steep than your ride, at
about 3300' in about 10 miles. A few parts are even flat, and that 14%
bit is only at the very top (ouch).

The lack of any letup on the Whiteface is a harsh mistress. I
understand Mt Wash is even worse.

Also, I'm a bit of a flailer yet, (<1 yr riding), and so wasted plenty
of energy with my unquiet upper body.

Quoted message said:

...The speed we were going was basically about as slow as we could
pedal without becoming too unstable. Maybe 40-50 rpm or so. Any slower
and you start slowing down on each pedal stroke, and/or falling off a
lot. So that was like the minimum speed we could maintain for long
stretches, which was the maximum our conditioning allowed us to go.

Yep, I was limited, by my conditioning, to barely above my minimum
speed.

I'll be attempting the Mt. Equinox ride on 8/6, which is 3200' vertical
in only 5 miles, making for 12% average grade. Since I barely mashed up
Whiteface, with its 8% grade, by my reasoning, and I think your logic
here agrees, that I should go for a smaller wheel or longer cranks on
Equinox, as I wouldn't be able to stay upright at any slower speed on my
29er as it is now.

Since I own a 24", and not longer cranks, that'll be my option.

I really wish I knew what unicycle was used in setting the current Mt
Wash record of 2:18.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for that great, inspiring story! Come on out and ride Mt.
Diablo with us some time. The race is in October, but sometimes groups
go there for "training" rides. My ride up last may was surely one of
the hardest rides I've done, because it was followed by a ride back
down. The downhill was what made me sore, and my 140mm cranks, with no
brakes, were much too short for the dirt trails we took!

I'd love that.

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Of course if you want to get up the hill fastest . . .
use a car.

My guess is that Kris Holm could have beaten you on a 20" and Gizmoduck
could have beaten you on a 36".

From reading your original writeup, perhaps a smaller wheel WOULD have
helped you. Perhaps it could have taken the stress off of your legs and
put it in your heart. Maybe it would have allowed you to mount more
easily and fall less on steep sections. Go ahead and try the smaller
wheel - post your results. What may be the better wheel for others may
not be for you. Even if a large wheel IS better - you can still choose
to compete on (a 29" rather than a bike, a 24" rather than a 29", a 20"
rather than a 24"😉.

It's not the size of the wheel in the heart,
it's the size of the heart in the wheel.
- Drew Brown

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ChangingLINKS.com said:

*...My guess is that Kris Holm could have beaten you on a 20" and
Gizmoduck could have beaten you on a 36"...
*

NO DOUBT! 8-]

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tomblackwood said:

*..."convenient opportunities" to call it quits. I ran into one this
weekend on a long Coker ride, but unlike you I took the easy way
out.

Tom *

Did you take a shortcut?

steveyo

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Steve, I just got around to cleaning out my email inbasket and read your
race report. This was mostly because a friend at work brought in a hard
copy of your write-up (slightly abridged) from the Adirondack Sports &
Fitness newspaper. What a story. I must be in an emotional period
because I'm usually not this mushy, but I teared up upon reading it. I
wish I had your drive.

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